Doctor Who: "(Scottish noises)"

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Which season of Doctor Who should get a Blu-ray set next? This poll is closed.
One of the black-and-white seasons	16	29.63%
Season 7	7	12.96%
Season 11	1	1.85%
Season 13	0	0%
Season 15	2	3.70%
The Key to Time	21	38.89%
Season 21	0	0%
Season 25	7	12.96%
Total:	54 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Edward Mass posted:

This derail reminds me of when Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS aired and uninformed Americans believed the character of Albert Steptoe was Black.

...wait, what?

# ¿ Jan 1, 2024 22:28

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 05:19

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Ohhh, I forgot there was a remake, right. Carry on.

E: I am glad the middle eight is back.

# ¿ Jan 1, 2024 23:29

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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LividLiquid posted:

Moffat's run is my favorite and it's not close. I speedrun 9 and 10 to get to 11 and 12. It blows me away that people think he sucks.

Like, at best, he's kind of poo poo. But he doesn't suck.

At Doctor Who. Hoooooo boy does he suck elsewhere.

I still really love Press Gang.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2024 06:39

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I was impressed Moffat managed to find an untapped Christmas theme to use. Really thought the vein was tapped, but then, "Oh, it's the trenches and you didn't say which year, well-played."

Finding out that the regeneration was meant for The Doctor Falls and this was all done to secure things for Chibnall made my confusion over the rest of the episode make a lot more sense.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2024 21:36

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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From what I remember, Doctor Falls was written as the Twelfth Doctor's final story. Then Chibnall lets Moffat know he won't be ready in time to do a Christmas ep, doesn't want to do one, he'll just drop it and do the first story in the new year. Moffat gets concerned that dropping the highly visible prime Christmas slot that has been reserved for Who since RTD will damage the show's place in the public consciousness. So he holds on to the Christmas slot with a new regeneration story. The reason Twice Upon A Time feels a bit like a hastily thrown together anticlimactic afterthought is because it apparently was.

Does give me echoes of Last Christmas where apparently Shona was being set up as the new companion, but then Jenna Coleman during the readthrough confirms she will stay on and we get that one "It was a dream again!" too many.

E: beaten like the idea of New Years Day specials

Coward fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 7, 2024

# ¿ Jan 7, 2024 22:23

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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To be fair, if Jenna Coleman had left in Last Christmas, I don't see how we would have got Heaven Sent, and almost certainly we would not have got Bill. But I still would have loved to see Shona and Missy.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2024 06:27

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Like a lot of the Hinchcliffe and Holmes era it's taking inspiration from another work. The problem is that that work is also really racist.

But at least we can all love the giant rat.

E:

Sydney Bottocks posted:

It wasn't just the fandom, there was a lot of casual racism on British TV throughout the 60s and 70s. Remember, The Black & White Minstrel show was only canceled about a year after Talons of Weng-Chiang aired.

gently caress me, I forgot about that. Shudder.

League of Gentlemen proved, though, that a "minstrel" could make a terrifying Who monster.

Coward fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 22, 2024

# ¿ Jan 22, 2024 00:56

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Jerusalem posted:

The racism is really bad and the fact (towards the end of the story) that Chang ends up in an opium den just doubles down on it. Which, as everybody has said, makes it extremely uncomfortable to recommend even though it's such a good story otherwise.

The decision to do a pastiche of Victorian Fu Manchu pulp stories without any reflection on the tropes that you're replicating is a really bad one.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2024 01:14

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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It being otherwise a really good story is what makes the racism even more awkward and unnecessary. If The Twin Dilemma was all done in yellowface, I think everyone would just shrug and add it to the pile of "What the hell were they thinking?"

# ¿ Jan 22, 2024 04:17

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I still occasionally remember the sonic screwdriver construction montage from The Woman Who Fell To Earth and wonder about a Thirteenth Doctor being a mad tinkerer. An eccentric, but a practical eccentric. Whittaker's interpretation having this infectious enthusiasm would have worked so well for that.

And thank you Jerusalem for nailing something I couldn't put my finger on about Fugitive of the Judoon. Why didn't Chibnall commit hard on the concept and have the Fugitive Doctor travel with the Thirteenth for an episode or two? It would have been an interesting way of showing the differences between the two, and then you write the Fugitive out after a couple of episodes when they have a massive disagreement about the differing approaches.

But I guess there's a problem in that, despite the Thirteenth Doctor being theoretically a far older version of themselves than the Fugitive, Chibnall makes the Fugitive the source of wisdom. Admittedly, we don't know how many centuries the Fugitive and her prior incarnations have been around, but the implication that an institutionalised secret agent sent on uncountable ruthless missions is the wiser character than the scientist/explorer hero the audience has actually watched grow and develop is an odd one.

But, whatever, please bring back the Fugitive Doctor, Martin was really good and had a surprisingly good costume too.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2024 22:48

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I never read any of the novelisations, but I have memories of my parents buying me educational illustrated books with the Fourth Doctor exploring and explaining stuff. I also remember that not helping me trying to work out why there were two Doctor Whos, one with blonde hair and one with a long scarf, and what that meant.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2024 01:33

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I love the umbrella though.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2024 05:03

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Yeah, I am not a fan of the movie outfit either.

I think the pullover would be great if it was just a pattern in those colours, or if the question marks were subtly hidden in it. But, honestly, I don't mind it much. Just kind of looks like a pattern and feels less egregious than putting it on the collar.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2024 06:47

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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SirSamVimes posted:

Heaven Sent somehow lives up to every bit of the hype

And it has such a great ending with the kid running off and the reveal of where they are. Definitely the end of that episode and a real shame it was the end of that series and the cliffhanger never got resolved.

Hollismason posted:

I'm on the 2nd Serial of Davison the fifth Doctor run and I have to say I like him! He's kind of mischievous but serious as well. I mean this is only 2nd serial so we will see how he turns out but I like him.

It's to a lesser extent than C Baker, McGann and Whitaker, but I do feel it's another case of a good person in the role of Doctor not getting the best scripts for them. But unlike the others, Davison's final story is incredibly good.

Coward fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Feb 7, 2024

# ¿ Feb 7, 2024 03:41

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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By the way, has there been any note of any differences between what was on Disney+ and what aired on the Beeb?

# ¿ Feb 19, 2024 09:40

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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SirSamVimes posted:

My Doctor Who catchup is about halfway through the Chibnall era and my god I hate the Doctor responding to to Graham talking frankly about his cancer with "I'M SOCIALLY AWKWARD SO I'LL WALK AWAY NOW"

That was a weirdly misjudged attempt at a bit of "cute" humour. And it's a shame because Graham's reactions to his cancer and grief over Grace are the only genuine emotional throughlines in the era, and it gets undercut completely there. I am hoping Chibnall looks back on that and goes, "Yeah, that was a bad idea, don'tknow what I was thinking," like Moffat does with that woeful scene at the end of Flesh and Stone.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2024 21:44

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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There is a lot of Chibnall era stuff that is "Introduce cool or intriguing concept in Act I, then immediately do no thinking about it and do nothing interesting or clever with it."

Eve of the Daleks had me super frustrated for example, because I thought "Doctor and companions caught in a time loop that always ends in their death, and they have to work out how to break it" was an amazingly good hook for a story. But then nothing really gets done with the loop, nothing thematically hangs on repeating the same actions, it's not used as a way of making clever reveals, or showing how you could use increasing foreknowledge to try and prevent the deaths of your friends.

The guardian dogs thing is another example. I am not adverse to something so bonkers high concept, and thought it was a neat idea. But it very quickly falls apart as it becomes clear Chibnall hasn't bothered to, or isn't interested in, giving it any thought at all. It doesn't make any sense because there is no room to give it any amongst the rest of the pointless setup stuff happening. The explanation of "one dog for every human" may as well have just been characters lying for all the wider impact it makes on the events of the story.

(Yes, they put all their ships together to protect earth, but it just kind of feels that it happebs just 'cause rather than it being an important or logical event)

# ¿ Feb 28, 2024 02:10

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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There is a lot of Chibnall that occasionally feels like, if you'll pardon the expression, "cargo culting" Doctor Who. Like, if my script includes these twists or big concepts or references or character beats, then that will make it an episode of Doctor Who, regardless of whether those make sense or have any narrative impact.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2024 22:15

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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The_Doctor posted:

Welcome friend, come in out of the Flux.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 01:33

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Narsham posted:

Even that is a Chibnall joint: as scripted, the Master did not dance. Dhawan misread something and ended up dancing and they just kept it.

I don't really believe that for a second. How was that scene supposed to work without the dancing? Boney M suddenly starts playing, but the Master just stands there? Why would it then be surprising for Dhawan to choose to dance? Or despite the clear parallel with Sound of Drums and the setup of him being Rasputin there wasn't any pop music scripted, and Dhawan danced for no reason and they added the music afterwards?

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 07:41

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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So, the script has as the climax of an evil plan by the Master, "and then out of nowhere disco hit Rasputin by Boney M plays and the Master stands impassively"? The Master as played by Dhawan whose performance Chibnall has become familiar with? And then Chibnall expresses complete surprise that Dhawan unexpectedly does a dance?

I don't know, that story just doesn't add up for me. Everything clearly feels like a straight reference to The Sound of Drums I can't imagine it not being Chibnall's intention it be "The Master dances to Boney M" right from the start.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 08:53

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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JessKay posted:

The song is in the script as released by the beeb (link, page 52 of the Power of the Doctor script), the dancing isn't.

That said I really have to imagine that to Chibnall at least it was implied, and that it was probably discussed outside of the page. But they're not strictly wrong that the script doesn't mention it.

Huh, fair enough, it does just have Rasputin play for basically no reason. But, yeah, it's either implied or Chibnall should not have been at all surprised by the choice to dance with the music.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 11:09

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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It's going to be like decorations. The Who Christmas Special will stream in early October this year.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2024 10:25

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I just hope we get the Moffat who nailed the balance between wit, whimsy, horror and high concept. I am slightly fearful his time as showrunner and then his time away from Who may have mutated his approach and pushed it further from what I saw as his strengths in writing the show.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2024 22:11

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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The tragedy, I think, is not the ideas but that Chibnall is nowhere near a strong enough writer to pull any of them off. RTD or Moffat I feel would have understood how hard you would have had to work to sell that concept, and there is no way it would have just been an interminable expository monologue that meant nothing to the story. Comparing how Moffat tied a previously unseen incarnation into the narrative's themes against Chibnall having a reveal awkwardly thud into a bunch of things that happened is intriguing. I occasionally wonder how I would have felt about the 50th if it had been handled by Chibnall. And then I remember how much I cringed at Power of the Doctor.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2024 08:50

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I'm not sure why everyone is trying to rationalise the Doctor blowing up a TARDIS when just the basic idea of "persuade EVERY SINGLE dalek to walk into one space" is so poor a solution to the problem.

And Jerusalem's recap again shows that feeling of Chibnall identifying elements and plot beats that are perfectly solid Doctor Who (or general SF) but him having no real idea how to put them together as a satisfying narrative. _{(someone please find me a better term than "cargo culting")}

# ¿ Apr 7, 2024 23:25

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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The amazing thing to wonder is how much more baffled and disappointed we might have been if circumstances had allowed the Flux to be a full series, unaffected by COVID.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2024 05:52

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Edward Mass posted:

the reason Flux got made was BECAUSE they could only do six episodes.

I am surprised the Flux wasn't the original intended story arc of Whittaker's third series. So much of it feels like the story Chibnall wanted to tell.

But I suppose it could be equally true that a few scripts had already started development and Chibnall decided it was best to hamfistedly bolt on a story arc to them.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2024 06:26

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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I remember my reaction to that episode being mainly irritation that all the disparate elements were actually not that interesting as a sneak peek of upcoming thrills. They had no real satisfying purpose EXCEPT to hint at something coming later, and by now I knew Chibnall did not have the strength of writing to actually deliver on any of it (although I wasn't prepared for exactly seisimcally he dropped the ball on it. I honestly yelled, "is that loving it!?" at the telly for the resolution of the loving prophesied tunnels that had been mentioned in every episode).

I did enjoy the relationship between Dan and the doggy, though, I remember giving Chibnall that.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 11:59

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Warthur posted:

Believe it or not, once people had to wait for 18 months. That was too long...

Re: Flux/Halloween Apocalypse, two things bug the heck out of me in this episode:

- Dan's doggo puts Yaz in a deathtrap. Shouldn't Yaz's doggo have... opinions about this? Sure, maybe the doggos are only meant to defend humans against certain kinds of threat, but actively killing each others' humans (or putting them at very high risk of death) feels like it's a massive erosion of that responsibility.

I loved the loopy high concept of everyone having a guardian doggy. But then Chibnall, true to form, does absolutely no thinking at all about what the high concept means, what it implies, and what can be done with it. There is absolutely no thought put into the idea or demonstration of it, such that it makes more sense that the wider suggestion is just a lie and it's Dan's doggy alone that looks out for him.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 00:31

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 05:19

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

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Warthur posted:

Right - but equally the Division is meant to be very, very hush-hush, so it feels like a stretch that Yaz's space doggo would have picked up on that or regard Yaz as not being in danger at all.

Also, how does the pairing work? Does this all mean that the Doctor's Division days all unfolded in Dan's lifetime, because the doggo and human are always paired, or can doggos move on to other humans after they negligently let their human die?

I am impressed you are going that far. As soon as I realised that the concept had not been thought about in any way, and genuinely had no bearing at all on the story ir characters, I stopped thinking about. Kind of angrily too, since it was such a delightfully and whimsically insane idea.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 11:31

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