Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Which season of Doctor Who should get a Blu-ray set next?
This poll is closed.
One of the black-and-white seasons 16 29.63%
Season 7 7 12.96%
Season 11 1 1.85%
Season 13 0 0%
Season 15 2 3.70%
The Key to Time 21 38.89%
Season 21 0 0%
Season 25 7 12.96%
Total: 54 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Post
  • Reply
Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
I don't think it's important to the point whether London cops have reached the level of Janissary that American ones have, but the point where a well-meaning teenager can honestly aspire to be a police officer because they want to help people has passed. I don't think we were quite at that point in 2014 when the Danny stuff was on TV, but even then, it wasn't handled particularly well.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

SirSamVimes posted:

I hate the words "the first of the Doctor Who spinoffs"

When they say "fan-favorite the Sea Devils," to which fan in particular are they referring?

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Warthur posted:

Holy poo poo, Series 9 is so so good. I've got to The Husbands of River Song in my watchthrough and you know what? I could go for a spin-off series where the concept is that it's about the Twelfth Doctor and River going on little adventures together during their 24 years of living together on Darillium (because you know they didn't just let the TARDIS gather dust in the corner unused during all that time), because the chemistry between them is far better than River/11 and on a par with/might be better than River/10.

Series 9 crew rise up, it's probably the best of the revival IMO. The new episodes got me in the mood and and I watched Face the Raven, Heaven Sent, and Hell Bent a couple of weeks ago, what a fantastic run of stories. After the last several years it was wonderful to hear even tossed-off lines with a wonderful sense of weight to them ("At the end of everything, one must expect the company of immortals.")

Just the text doesn't do Capaldi's and Coleman's performances justice, but this exchange shortly before Clara's death is unbelievably good:

quote:

CLARA: We can fix this, can't we? We always fix it.
DOCTOR: No. (to Ashildr) But you can. Fix this. Fix it now.
ASHILDR: It, it's not possible. I can't.
DOCTOR: Yes, it is, you can, and you will, or this street will be over. I'll show you and all your funny little friends to the whole laughing world. I'll bring UNIT, I'll bring the Zygons. Give me a minute, I'll bring the Daleks and the Cybermen. You will save Clara, and you will do it now, or I will rain hell on you for the rest of time.
CLARA: Doctor, stop talking like that.
ASHILDR: You can't.
DOCTOR: I can do whatever the hell I like. You've read the stories. You know who I am. And in all of that time, did you ever hear anything about anyone who stopped me?
ASHILDR: I know the Doctor. The Doctor would never
DOCTOR: The Doctor is no longer here! You are stuck with me. And I will end you, and everything you love.
CLARA: Doctor, for God's sake, will you stop?
DOCTOR: No!
CLARA: I did this, do you hear me? I did this. This is my fault.
DOCTOR: I don't care.
CLARA: Liar. You always care. Always have. Your reign of terror will end with the sight of the first crying child and you know it.
DOCTOR: No, I don't.
CLARA: I do. Listen, if this is the last I ever see of you, please, not like this.
(The Raven caws in the distance.)
CLARA: (to Ashildr) Is there anything you can do?
ASHILDR: I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry, I
CLARA: Time's short. Yes or no?
ASHILDR: No.
(The Doctor breathes heavily. Rigsy is trying not to cry.)
CLARA: Well, if Danny Pink can do it, so can I.
DOCTOR: Do what?
CLARA: Die right. Die like I mean it. Face the Raven.
DOCTOR: No. This, this isn't happening. This can't be happening.
CLARA: Maybe this is what I wanted. Maybe this is it. Maybe this is why I kept running. Maybe this is why I kept taking all those stupid risks. Kept pushing it.
DOCTOR: This is my fault.
CLARA: This is my choice.
DOCTOR: I let you get reckless.
CLARA: Why? Why shouldn't I be so reckless? You're reckless all the bloody time. Why can't I be like you?
DOCTOR: Clara, there's nothing special about me. I am nothing, but I'm less breakable than you. I should have taken care of you.
CLARA: I never asked you to.
DOCTOR: You shouldn't have to ask.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Covok posted:

Here's a dirty secret of American TV: we don't use 90% of our regional accents or dialog in most of our media. Most characters use "neutral" accent, which is actually a midwestern accent. Most Americans see the accent as "neutral." Then, the next most popular would be the "southern" accent, which is actually an exaggerated Texas accent. New York comes up, but they are actually more common in mafia media and period pieces then anything set in a contemporary period. Outside of that, anything is a rarity. You never see a Wisconsin accent on TV or a Missourian or Kentucky, etc. And that's not even getting into the kind of racist "race based" accent casting that has thankfully been dying down over the last 20 years.

Yeah, there are loads of really distinctive regional accents that get little to no exposure in media; I can't think of any time I've seen somebody with a Philadelphia accent, the Chicago accent has only really come up in that one SNL sketch, etc. Especially on the East Coast, you've got a whole constellation of disparate accents close together in a manner similar to the U.K. A bunch of them are dying out due to being perceived as low-class / proliferation of the "neutral" accent. That's something I know happens in Britain as well with RP being considered the default, but for whatever reason other accents are more common in media there than in the U.S.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

HORROR OF FANG ROCK
THE INVISIBLE ENEMY
IMAGE OF THE FENDAHL
THE SUN MAKERS
UNDERWORLD
THE INVASION OF TIME

Ooh, that's a pretty rough season. Two of those are alright, I guess!

Also lol at the section of the trailer that's just photos of Louise Jameson in the leather outfit looking sexy, they know their audience

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Class3KillStorm posted:

I just started rewatching "The Sun Makers" randomly the other day, and I forgot that it has one of the funnier cliffhangers in part 2 when they're stopped and scared by... a couple of rando guards on a golf cart coming at them slowly down the corridor. Plenty of space to roam, plenty of doors to race for well before the guards get there... but everyone has to just stop and stare for the benefit of the big musical sting. Absolute shades of that bit in the first Austin Powers movie with the one guard and the steamroller.

I think The Sun Makers is actually pretty good, but yeah even by the standards of the time it looks incredibly cheap. I do like that the Doctor decides "this world fuckin sucks, I'm gonna overthrow it" almost immediately upon arrival, it really sells the level of contempt he has for the corporation on Pluto.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

A.o.D. posted:

I can't really recall many matte paintings in old Who. I do recall a bunch of, and I believe I'm using this correctly, naff miniatures. Maybe the BBC just didn't have a matte painter on staff back then?

From a layman's perspective, miniatures are probably a little easier to teach someone to do quickly, in that part of it is just supergluing bits and pieces of plastic together. You can also reuse a miniature from multiple angles, which is handy when you need to do a dozen establishing shots over four episodes.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Open Source Idiom posted:

James Goss relocated to a cave in Turkey

I thought this was some weird euphemism for being canceled

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
I think the only story that will "ruin" Classic Who is The Curse of Fenric, in how it's really the first story to pull off tethering the plot to a character's emotional journey, a move that is now basically standard for genre TV. Also it's just really loving good in general, an absolute high-water mark of the series and a preview of what it would have looked like in the 90s.

Then they canceled the show the next serial.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

jisforjosh posted:

https://twitter.com/WildBlueJacob/status/1747025306295148825

Technically not till August but my knees suddenly hurt

Anybody want to guess, without looking, how many Big Finishes they've done since then? I'm gonna go with three box sets of four stories each, plus some celebratory special where they team up with *rolls dice* uh, Winston Churchill.

Jerusalem posted:

Tom Baker has mentioned that he absolutely approached the role as,"I'm an alien, there should be something "off" about me", which he very deliberately made a physical part of his performance. He'd make his facial/emotional reactions slightly off to a given situation, and do things like turn 270 degrees when he could have just made a simple left or right turn to get where he needed to go.

You definitely get the impression from him, or at least I did, that there is something "other" about him. Inhuman would be the wrong word, but he (the Doctor) doesn't act like a human would normally act, and it's mildly unsettling but also makes him utterly fascinating, you can't take your eyes off of him (which of course Tom Baker loved!).

I think Tom Baker and Matt Smith both benefit a little from just looking loving weird, there is something that's a little off about both of them. Not in an off-putting way, just like they're an extra standard deviation off from what we imagine the average person to look like.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

The_Doctor posted:

The Crystal Maze has such an odd production history.

In 1989, French tv was making a show, Fort Boyard, a game show about solving puzzles, doing challenges, and collecting keys to a treasure room at the end of the episode. British tv company Chatsworth acquired the format, but couldn’t schedule time to film at the titular Fort Boyard (a real fort completely surrounded by the sea off the coast of France!) so they initially made a FB pilot using sets and filmed it at Elstree studios. It looked dreadful, so they asked FB’s creator for help and he suggested the Crystal Maze format.

Eventually the UK did get its own Fort Boyard with Geoffrey Bayldon, Leslie Grantham and Melinda Messenger hosting/as characters (and eventually Tom Baker!) and is one of 34 countries to have their own version of the show!

My companion and I watched an ep last year while in France and it’s wild. For one, the episode was 2.5 hours long, and there’s a huge amount of lore behind it all where the characters in the fort all have their own motivations and history, which evolves season to season.

I've heard the Boulanger era is held in plus respect.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
It's rather trivial to explain away with all the weird stuff with regeneration that has come up since the revival. She's not burning through four lives, it's just one because "she's not done cooking yet." And as a member of Gallifrey's elite Romana will obviously be granted a new set of regenerations by the High Council.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Hollismason posted:

Yeah okay sure Time Lords went to war with space vampires

Low key I think this is one of the goofiest bits of lore in the entire show. I love that vampires of all baddies are the ancient eternal foes of the Time Lords. Presumably the monsters in Vampires of Venice are from that one chunk of the universe where everything is vaguely vampire-y, like how most of the show takes place in the part where everyone looks vaguely like a British theatre actor Time Lord.

I kinda gave up on my Eight Doctor Adventures read-through, but Vampire Science is great and also has a really funny bit where one of the vampires starts talking about how she saw the Doctor and the others are like, "...but Time Lords aren't real, they're just a fairy tale, right?"

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
Boy you are just plowing through these.

Glancing at Davison's stories for a minute, I think the signal-to-noise ratio is probably about the same as later Tom Baker, it's just that when a story is bad, it's really bad.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Warthur posted:

I honestly don't mind Pip and Jane and I think people overhype how much of a bad thing they were for the show.

Terror of the Vervoids is exactly as old school and unchallenging as Chris Chibnall accused it of being, but that's fine - in an era desperately short of good stories, putting in a script that's a passing C grade is raising the average appreciably. Mark of the Rani is a mess, but I appreciate the lighter tone it took in comparison with most of the rest of season 22. The one episode of The Ultimate Foe they wrote was awful, but they were working under circumstances where it would be literally impossible for anyone to do any better. Time and the Rani isn't very representative of the rest of the Seventh Doctor's run but, again, that kind of makes it worth it for the contrast, and if you don't like the Rani impersonating Mel or reacting to the Doctor figuring out a new outfit then you basically don't like fun.

I'd never put them at the top of the list but of all the stuff to complain about in the Sixth Doctor years, Pip and Jane is pretty low on the list. And they might have done better with a script editor who wasn't stewing in resentment of having to work with them, refusing to give Colin Baker a chance (and possibly sabotaging him on purpose), and in revolt against the producer's vision for the show.

Yeah, there's a palpable lack of ambition in Pip and Jane scripts, but they're also very obviously people who write a lot and are consequently very good at structuring stories on a technical level (also they probably turned in all their scripts on time). Should a TV show aspire to more than a C average? Sure, but that's the show's problem, not theirs.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
As a trilogy I don't think it's particularly interesting, but nevertheless when Terminus is your weakest story you're in a pretty good place. I understand why Earthshock is more or less the go-to for "first Davison story" but Mawdryn Undead and Enlightenment are both absolute highlights of Doctor Who, and I don't think a couple of weird continuity scenes should preclude either of those stories from taking that position.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
I don't think it's been brought up yet, but Elizabeth Sandifer of Eruditorum Press has started covering the Chibnall era. I'm only up to the Rosa entry so far, but... it is brutal, unsurprisingly.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

PriorMarcus posted:

I will say that her Witchfinders review, which is the most recent one, articles a point I've always been really reluctant to discuss, and that's the maybe Whitaker, even with the poo poo material she was given, just isn't a very good Doctor? Like, I was all on board with the idea that she wasn't given the scripts and material (she wasn't) but then I think about how much of her era has just slid off my brain, and how little of her Doctor I have a grasp on, and I can fairly safely say that she really didn't do anything to elevate the material. I think, with every other Doctor, that when they had bad scripts they still managed to do something memorable with them, but Whitaker just... doesn't?

I won't quite the review at length here, but I do recommend reading it. https://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/qui-quae-quod-the-witchfinders

As difficult as it is to test the hypothesis, the counter-example of Mandip Gill always trying to find something to do despite the scripts barely remembering she exists is a good one. A lot of the discourse around Whitaker was so toxic and sexist that it kind of inoculated criticism of her among people who aren't insane.

Warthur posted:

I'll say here what I said there: “Jodie got sandbagged by by bad scripts” is a testable hypothesis. Colin Baker had essentially no five-star scripts during his stint, but then audios happened and it was great. But that's because Colin is an exceptionally good actor for allowing a glimpse of a better version of his Doctor to emerge in brief flashes during television stories largely designed to undermine him, and it was those flashes people used as a basis for later stories. Many of his best audios (at least of those I have heard, and I admit I’ve only heard the early ones up to The Holy Terror or thereabouts) seem to be built on the idea of “OK, what if we let Colin do more of That Thing or This Bit, in a story which better supported it?”, and to his credit he grabbed those opportunities with both hands and wholly exonerated himself.

Colin is obviously much better on audio, but I don't know if I'd agree that his work there expands much on his TV performance. Like, audio Colin and TV Colin have a little in common, but they're basically as different as any other pair of Doctors.

Warthur posted:

I really don’t think she has any other truly great moments in her run which make you sit up and think “Yes, this is what the Doctor is supposed to be about”, particularly once you get to entire seasons based around her getting upstaged by Jo Martin

The way everybody was instantly agog about Jo Martin is maybe the most damning evidence against Thirteen (largely as written, maybe a bit as acted). The first thing you want to do when introducing that sort of inverted character is make them everything that your main character is not, which requires you to think exactly about what your character is. And Chibnall, in maybe his most insightful moment across three series, correctly deduced that the inversion of Thirteen is a character who does stuff and is proactive.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Nah, ChatGPT would’ve at least been nonsensical enough to be vaguely interesting. The Chibnall era is the dry turkey sandwich of modern Who; yeah it’s good and it technically functions as something to fill you up, but there’s no joy to be had in that meal.

You’re eating bland turkey on bland white bread without even so much as a bit of pesto aioli or spicy mustard, and on top of that you’d just spent the last 3ish years eating a pretty good hot pastrami on rye.

Yeah, I think the ChatGPT comparison is a flawed one. Chibnall absolutely had a theme and an agenda running through his stories, it's just that it's one that is totally antithetical to Doctor Who. His work under RTD and Moffat is perhaps a better argument for AI-generated nonsense--and it's much better!

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
I'm not a UK resident, but BBC One doesn't have commercials, right? So it shouldn't really matter what the broadcast viewing numbers are, just how many people are watching it in general. The fans watch it as soon as it's out online, the families turn it on after dinner on Saturday, it's all getting the brand out there.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Timby posted:

Chibnall wrote literally every episode of Flux.

Technically true, but I wouldn't describe anything Chibnall wrote having "vision" or "characters" or "a plot."

RTD writing basically the whole series does make me a tad nervous. He acquitted himself well with the specials and writing most of the episodes means he will, by definition, be doing some non-arc ones which is where he's strongest, but he's not going to be around forever and the show desperately needs to cultivate new talent.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
Reading these reviews is really a trip because I mostly stopped watching after the start of Series 12, and I am 95% certain I watched this episode... but the plot synopsis is just as familiar to me as the one where the Doctor is an Irish cop (?). It's like trying to recall a dream ten minutes after waking.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

The_Doctor posted:

Chibnall seems very chummy with RTD and Moffat now, so you'll never get them badmouthing him, but I'd absolutely love an oral history of his era from a production side.

I don't know how much behind-the-scenes stuff would do, since the flaws of the Chibnall era are pretty obvious to anybody paying attention, and it all boils down to pretty much the same thing: Chibnall's not a good writer or showrunner, in a very ordinary way. The most fun you could have with the era is probably the way it gets talked about here, in the sort of "oh and one more thing, she sent the Master to a concentration camp?!" The rest of it would just be oh, we didn't do anything with our characters, oh, we didn't leave enough time for the resolution, and things like that.

I'd agree that we're never going to see RTD or Moffat mock Chibnall in the way they mock each other, because as I've said before, it would just come across as cruel rather than playful. But there's really no bigger diss RTD can give Chibnall than the BBC offering him carte blanche, including bringing Disney in as a producer, to come back un-gently caress-up the show.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

2house2fly posted:

The Unquiet Dead
"The stiffs are getting lively again" yep this is Mark Gatiss all right. I kind of wonder how they chose whose episodes would go in what order. Davies decided "ok I've hit the ground running, got everything set up with the first two episodes, now to turn everything over to the League Of Gentlemen guy". There's probably something in The Writer's Tale or something about this, the behind the scenes is pretty extensively documented, I'm just not curious enough (or too lazy) to go looking into it.

I'm guessing Gatiss and Davies go way back; at any rate they had both written New Adventures and Gatiss wrote one or two Big Finish stories prior to the TV gig.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply