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muscles like this!)
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I haven’t been able to have IRL conversations about most TV shows in like almost two decades at this point because no one is on the same schedule and even before streaming was the big thing, people were time shifting with DVRs. That’s all assuming people are watching the same stuff which is often not the case. One of my group chats this weekend. Me: I’m enjoying Fallout so far, just finished Episode 4. Friend 1: Haven’t started it yet, no real reason, just feeling lazy, we’ll see if I get to it in the next few weeks. Friend 2: We don’t have Prime right now, we were planning on checking it out the next time we subscribe. Friend 3: I’ll add it to the list, not sure when I’ll get to it. Decided I wanted to do a Farscape rewatch right now. One of the funny things is that the whole reason I jumped to start watching it last week when it came out rather than finish something else up was I thought that one of them would be watching since they were talking about the show a lot before it came out. I think about mid run Supernatural is the last time where I would compare notes with a friend for the week’s episode. Now, there is still stuff I watch with a friend. We usually get together a few times a month and watch certain things together and it is nice having the conversation in real time. Severance was like that. We do that with Lower Decks. When Venture Brothers was still on, that was also a thing that we watched together. In that case though, it really didn’t matter what the schedule was either since we made it a point that we were going to watch those shows together. So, all at once drop or weekly drop didn’t matter much. We watched what was available and we had time for when we got together and waited until next time to watch more. But the thing I like about that is the actual, in person, live reactions we have to things minute to minute. Most of that we can’t really replicate online.
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Apr 17, 2024 16:06
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Game of Thrones had some of that during the early seasons, and went strong up through at least the red wedding. Maybe even though the middle of season 7 when the general enthusiasm had burned off. The Mandalorian discussion still hits that. But before that the last thing I can really remember being able to participate in for live reactions on the forums with a significant number of people was the final season of Venture Bros, and before that Mad Men. I think that sort of thing is only possible for the mega-hype shows these days. The monoculture is dead. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 16:26
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I agree with bull. people should just do things exactly to what’s convenient for their minority opinion and ignore everybody else. weekly releases are bad exactly because they don’t benefit them personally, the person whose only friends are parents
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Apr 17, 2024 16:39
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Last time I can remember real-world "water cooler talk" about an episode, as in I went into work the next day and at least a few people had watched it when it aired and wanted to discuss, was Westworld season 1, the episode with the timeline reveal about the Man in Black. Chernobyl came close but I think that was something that more picked up steam (so to speak) with more people watching it as the season went on. Prior to that was the occasional Game of Thrones episodes (especially the red wedding or the big battle episodes), and the Jim and Pam wedding episode of The Office was huge the day after. Actually back in 2015/16 I remember a lot of people talking about Vic Berger's Republican debate edits on YouTube the day after he would release a new one.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:47
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Open Source Idiom posted:They're built for one climax, rather than a series of smaller, weekly stories. Yeah, I think this is one of the reasons I've fallen out of love with a lot of TV. If I want a "single climax" I'd When these shows are built with binge watching in mind, I feel like there is so much less room for individual episodes to shine and everything just blurs into everything else. But then again, I also think this is a problem with the shorter seasons. There's very little fuckin breathing room in shows nowadays. I'm not saying we need to go back to unwieldy 25 episode monster seasons, but I'm not a fan of 8-10 episode seasons. Give me something like a 15 episode season where 3-5 episodes are there to slow things down a bit.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:51
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I have basically zero strong opinion on it either way now, but my anecdotal evidence is that any week-by-week show my friends and I watch inevitably inspires far more discussion between us, sharing of memes, and just general memorability. Shōgun and The Bad Batch, for example, have been regular objects of discussion since their season premieres. Fallout and Blue Eyed Samurai not so much.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:59
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I have basically zero strong opinion on it either way now, but my anecdotal evidence is that any week-by-week show my friends and I watch inevitably inspires far more discussion between us, sharing of memes, and just general memorability. I'll agree with BenDavid Grabinski, creator of Netflix's Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, who said, "As someone who had his whole season drop all at once at the same time… it’s the dumbest sh-- ever... There’s literally no upside... Imagine if the whole season of X-MEN 97 was out!" It's been really fun talking about X-Men '97 each week with my friends, so he picked the perfect example. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 19:49
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The Bad Batch also does 16 episode seasons, which seems like an OK compromise between the old 22 and the ~8 we usually get now.
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Apr 17, 2024 19:53
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https://twitter.com/TrekMovie/status/1780603280290172988 Well you see, enjoyable hangout filler episodes are something to be avoided. That opinion explains a lot about the modern direction of ST. quote:“I think what’s lovely about that is—it’s funny, you can talk to old writers of old Trek series, and they’re like, ‘Man, there’s a bunch of filler episodes in there. We are just trying to get to 22 a season,’ you know, and we all know which of those episodes were [filler], we know the ones that were truly stellar from the ones that felt like they were kind of spinning their wheels. And so I think what ten episodes a season forces you to do is really make sure that every story counts as much as it possibly can. And I like that… I like what that affords us now.”
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Apr 17, 2024 19:53
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thrawn527 posted:I'll agree with that BenDavid Grabinski, creator of Netflix's Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, who said, "As someone who had his whole season drop all at once at the same time… it’s the dumbest sh-- ever... There’s literally no upside... Imagine if the whole season of X-MEN 97 was out!" It's been really fun talking about X-Men '97 each week with my friends, so he picked the perfect example. He’s right except for the part about X-Men 97 being good
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Apr 17, 2024 19:54
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Escobarbarian posted:He’s right except for the part about X-Men 97 being good You mean because its great, right?
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Apr 17, 2024 19:57
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Escobarbarian posted:He’s right except for the part about X-Men 97 being good I will not accept the premise of this argument.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:04
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/TrekMovie/status/1780603280290172988 God I hate that fucker, part of what made TNG and DS9 so great is when you could see the cast with their hair let down and not in the middle of Serious Sci-Fi Stories for Serious People
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Apr 17, 2024 20:10
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zoux posted:
I’ve always maintained that MOTW episodes were the best episodes of the X-Files. That said, people used to complain constantly about episodes that did not advance the plot in serial shows. That’s not to say that every non-plot episode was viewed in this way, but the common sentiment a not all that long ago was that 22 episodes was too much for writers to do in a stretch and some of that time was wasted. However, this tweet is just corporate double speak because the real reason is that they don’t have to keep writers around as long now so they can squeeze out some extra pennies. The only semi-serialized trek before was DS9 and SOME of Enterprise, so ‘filler’ episodes for older trek series are really just ones that weren’t well received (outside of stuff like Shades of Grey which was legit filler.)
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Apr 17, 2024 20:11
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Also from that articlequote:“I think most people watch two seasons of a streaming show, and they check out, you know, and that’s not specific to Trek. I just think that’s the watch pattern for television in the streaming world.”
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Apr 17, 2024 20:11
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Escobarbarian posted:He’s right except for the part about X-Men 97 being good I haven't watched this week's but last week's episode was three times as good as the best episode of the OG series. It's insanely good.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:13
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/TrekMovie/status/1780603280290172988 It's interesting that he thinks cutting an episode order short means all bangers and no filler, as if they still get the exact same amount of time and money to write and shoot 8 vs 22 episodes. Something tells me that isn't how it works.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:18
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zoux posted:Also from that article Isn't that the netflix excuse for why they cancel series after two seasons to cover from them not wanting to give raises to writers and actors? Really love that this guy is in charge of basically all the major sci-fi franchises nowadays
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Apr 17, 2024 20:29
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For All Mankind was officially renewed and a Soviet based spin off was announced.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:30
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muscles like this! posted:Soviet based spin off was announced. Oh cool!
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Apr 17, 2024 20:30
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/TrekMovie/status/1780603280290172988 Woof. Lmao if they their whole seasons aren't just filler for the one story they actually wanted to bother telling... Except they found a terrible unsatisfying balance where both individual episodes suffer being organized around the main plot, and the main plot suffers for being told in ten parts when it can better be told in one episode, maybe a two partner if they don't want to exercise any restraint. None of the existing nutrek one story per season plots actually need more than one episode to be told, but it's theoretically possible to write one that would need to be.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:35
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muscles like this! posted:For All Mankind was officially renewed and a Soviet based spin off was announced. gently caress yeah. The premise for the latter also kinda makes it sound like a decent way for them to keep using some of FAM’s characters that would be too old (or dead) to appear in future FAM seasons.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:36
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zoux posted:Also from that article I mean, it's nearly a meme around here that people turn on a show at Season 3. That's one of the reasons why I stopped frequenting show specific threads. I think the real problem is gap between seasons though if the metrics actually show that's the case.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:36
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bull3964 posted:I’ve always maintained that MOTW episodes were the best episodes of the X-Files. That said, people used to complain constantly about episodes that did not advance the plot in serial shows. That’s not to say that every non-plot episode was viewed in this way, but the common sentiment a not all that long ago was that 22 episodes was too much for writers to do in a stretch and some of that time was wasted. It's all about balance imo. You're absolutely right that 20+ episodes was too much. One of the last network serial shows I watched was Castle. In a 24 episode season, you'd probably get about 5-7 "plot" episodes per season. The first 1 episodes of the season, usually two sets of two episodes mid-season, and then the finale. Everything else was "filler." I'm not someone opposed to "filler." I find the modern 8-10 episode seasons with no fat to be loving exhausting. The problem wasn't the filler. It was the proportions. When 25% of your episodes are "plot" episodes, that means 75% are "filler" that don't move the story forward. My dream model would be something like 12-15 episode seasons with about 10 of those being the plot episodes and the rest being "filler."
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Apr 17, 2024 20:37
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bull3964 posted:I mean, it's nearly a meme around here that people turn on a show at Season 3. That's one of the reasons why I stopped frequenting show specific threads. The poster that invented that meme must be some kind of genious. Khanstant posted:Woof. Lmao if they their whole seasons aren't just filler for the one story they actually wanted to bother telling... Except they found a terrible unsatisfying balance where both individual episodes suffer being organized around the main plot, and the main plot suffers for being told in ten parts when it can better be told in one episode, maybe a two partner if they don't want to exercise any restraint. What's funny is that both LDS and SNW are barely serialized. I don't know how you call a musical episode or a Freaky Friday episode anything but "filler" but they are also outstanding, beloved episodes. Meanwhile everybody hates Discovery and Picard, which are heavily serialized. (Well everybody with an ounce of taste)
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Apr 17, 2024 20:39
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bull3964 posted:I mean, it's nearly a meme around here that people turn on a show at Season 3. That's one of the reasons why I stopped frequenting show specific threads. It's a pretty weird thing for the showrunner of Star Trek in particular to say, though. Lower Decks is in its fourth season and is just as good as it ever was, if not better. And shows like TNG and DS9 didn't even really get started until their third seasons.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:44
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Mordiceius posted:It's all about balance imo. There's an additional variable to consider here. Episode length. Network TV at 22 episodes a season at 41 minus commercials. That's a bit over 900 minutes of TV (minus any openings or credits). Stranger Things Season 4 was 780 minutes for just 9 episodes. So, one season of 9 episodes is just two hours shy of a 22 episode old school network TV show. This kinda goes back to what I was saying before, what if one solution here is to release in narrative arcs? For some shows, it may make sense to release 4 episodes here, 3 episodes 6 weeks later, 5 more 1 month after that. It may help with the memory-hole issue of a show between seasons if managed well since you may not have the several years long gap.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:48
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Medullah posted:I haven't watched this week's but last week's episode was three times as good as the best episode of the OG series. It's insanely good. 3 times better than a mediocre 90s kids show is not very good!!!! zoux posted:The poster that invented that meme must be some kind of genious. lmao. in my opinion they were an eejit
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Apr 17, 2024 20:51
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DaveWoo posted:It's a pretty weird thing for the showrunner of Star Trek in particular to say, though. Lower Decks is in its fourth season and is just as good as it ever was, if not better. And shows like TNG and DS9 didn't even really get started until their third seasons. I don't expect Alex Kurtzman to have an iota of understanding of Star Trek pre-2009. "Lower Decks" is ending with Season 5 even though, as you mentioned, it's as good as it ever was. There's no real reason for them to actually end it other than them wanting to carve out a new phase for Star Trek. I love SNW, but I'm expecting Season 4 to be its last even if they haven't announced that yet. Season 3 isn't until next year, so 4 will probably be late 2026 or 2027 and who knows what state things will be in by then.
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Apr 17, 2024 20:58
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I realize I'm very late to the game on this, barely catching up with TV that isn't reality or cartoon, but the pilot to Amazon's Mr. and Mrs. Smith was awesome. I'm looking forward to more. The two main actors are really good.
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Apr 17, 2024 21:01
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Mr. And Mrs Smith was great, just a wonderful season of television and I really hope it gets another.
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Apr 17, 2024 21:11
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bull3964 posted:There's an additional variable to consider here. Episode length. Yeah, I had a similar thought w/r/t Invincible. People didn't like that they were getting "only" 8 episodes (split into two 4 episode seasons) but they were almost all 1+ hour long. Animated series are almost universally 24 minutes, and I haven't done the math on this, but in terms of raw content it's more like ~20 episodes of traditional cartoons. Now obviously this isn't the same, they aren't structured like 3 episodes in one, but in terms of man hours, they aren't making much less.
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Apr 17, 2024 21:12
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WhiteHowler posted:I'm working through the new Mr. and Mrs. Smith series right now, and it has exceeded my expectations. I figured Donald Glover would be good in it, but I'm stunned by how great Maya Erskine is in this role -- I only knew her from Pen15, and she's absolutely killing it here. Mr and Mrs Smith is so good! Maya Erskine is fantastic. I wasn’t familiar with her at all. I quite like what I’ve seen of Slow Horses. I’m having a hard time thinking of other spy/heist series that aren’t just cop shows. You might have already seen them, but what about Barry, Money Heist, or Killing Eve? Deadloch is more cop show than spy show but it has comedy. Maybe The Tourist? American Animals is a fun heist movie. They aren’t in the genre you asked for, but if you want that same vibe as Mr and Mrs Smith, check out Swarm and Atlanta. Swarm is quite disturbing though.
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Apr 17, 2024 21:33
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zoux posted:Yeah, I had a similar thought w/r/t Invincible. People didn't like that they were getting "only" 8 episodes (split into two 4 episode seasons) but they were almost all 1+ hour long. Animated series are almost universally 24 minutes, and I haven't done the math on this, but in terms of raw content it's more like ~20 episodes of traditional cartoons. Now obviously this isn't the same, they aren't structured like 3 episodes in one, but in terms of man hours, they aren't making much less. On the other other hand, long episodes almost always feel like they're dragging. It might be a me problem, but if I see an episode of anything that's longer than an hour, it's guaranteed that it'll take me 2+ sittings to finish.
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Apr 17, 2024 22:39
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oh jay posted:On the other other hand, long episodes almost always feel like they're dragging. It might be a me problem, but if I see an episode of anything that's longer than an hour, it's guaranteed that it'll take me 2+ sittings to finish. For me I like short episodes, I like long episodes, I'm not too picky. What I DON'T like is inconsistency. These shows that have episodes that are 40 minutes, then an hour and a half, etc. I LIKE TO PLAN MY EVENINGS
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Apr 17, 2024 22:41
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I get that feeling but also The Bear has "Fishes" which is a tour-de-force that absolutely wouldn't work if it wasn't a full hour.
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Apr 17, 2024 22:46
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Arist posted:I get that feeling but also The Bear has "Fishes" which is a tour-de-force that absolutely wouldn't work if it wasn't a full hour. Yeah that's actually a good exception! I think one thing is that it was clear that it was a one off from the start. I'll watch a 1 hour episode if I'm "promised" a good ending, instead of it just being hour 5 in a 10 hour long movie.
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Apr 17, 2024 22:58
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Medullah posted:For me I like short episodes, I like long episodes, I'm not too picky. What I DON'T like is inconsistency. These shows that have episodes that are 40 minutes, then an hour and a half, etc. I LIKE TO PLAN MY EVENINGS Oh my god this. A few minutes here or there is one thing, but there are some WILD variations in some shows.
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Apr 17, 2024 23:28
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I don’t think that’s ever bothered me whatsoever. If I have time for a 47 minute show then I almost certainly have time for a 63 minute show lmao. If anything the varied runtimes have been a boon. Each episode tells the story it needs to tell with the appropriate pacing instead of having to meet a runtime determined by ad and act breaks.
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Apr 18, 2024 00:14
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Big Mean Jerk posted:act breaks. Don't get me started on how Scorsese movies should have intermissions like at the theater.
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Apr 18, 2024 00:28
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