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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Benagain posted:

I like that this post from 2015 and two games ago calls out resources not crossing the water barrier as stupid. Why does that still exist

I mean, the two key flaws of the series that existed 2 or 3 games ago are still the same, imo, they have barely improved...
-bad strategic AI. Armies of 50 regular militia deciding to attack your army of >200 more elite dudes. In the last two games they have been improving (slightly) the tactical AI but the strategic AI seems the same to me.
-bad UI, not adequate to the needs of their own game design. Because Dominions is a very special game that isn't about 'managing your empire' through provinces or castles, in a way it's an agent based game as it really is about managing 50-150 individual commanders, with them doing a myriad of things: scouts, assassins, army leaders, army ferrying, raiding thugs, SCs, antiSC thugs, magic searchers, patrollers, blood hunters, forgers, researchers, preachers, summoners, and a long etc. The game needs an overhaul in how it shows all these dozens commanders, and ways to search and organize them (groups/filters/order by, etc), and ways to give orders in an efficient manner, being able to give items in bulk, organize them better in the army setup, etc.

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Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...



we're definitely at a point with releases where i don't think the excuse of the devs being some small indie joint really flies as well anymore in terms of certain aspects of the game sucking poo poo to deal with. like if you're going to be releasing iterative takes on the same formula while tweaking a few things and adding a handful of new stuff then people are well within their rights of kind of asking why the actual interface for doing a lot of the things the games wants of you is still annoying to deal with.

it's not some dwarf fortress scenario where the coding is some nightmare hell demon and it's simulating the heat death of the universe or whatever. hell, even dwarf fortress has been steadily getting that sorted out lately!

brainwrinkle
Oct 18, 2009

What's going on in here?
Buglord
So ⁠earendil, my first Dominions game since 4, is nearly complete. I'm sure I didn't play EA Pyrene optimally, but I'd like to share some impressions of it:

1. It's a fun nation for cheap thugging. You've got 4 different recruitable thug chassis of varying costs and your Jentils can forge 5 gem items for 1 gem after Dwarven Hammers.
2. If you take an awake expander you can really mass freespawn cave cows and Mouflons. They're not very good, but with morale forging items and troop buffs they're not a liability. It's critically important to conquer Mountain/Hill provinces and Forest provinces for your Mairu troops and Basandere/Basajaun mages.
3. I still really don't know what your endgame plan should be as this nation.
4. Caves are both OP (excellent, safe income) and also suck to deal with. It takes forever to move through the provinces. Underwater lite realm.

I still haven't adapted to cheaper summons in Dominions 6 yet. There are some really good value summons like 3 Manticores for 10N.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Check out Lumber Constructs in construction. Insanely gem efficient tanks.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


ohh dude

I need to start reading descriptions of spells I havent looked at in a long time, those would be perfect to mass for the game I'm currently in. Unlike vine ogres they actually have ok magic resistance too

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Here's a new spell + an old spell reworked in 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vroeAE-NNI

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Flavahbeast posted:

I need to start reading descriptions of spells I havent looked at in a long time, those would be perfect to mass for the game I'm currently in. Unlike vine ogres they actually have ok magic resistance too

Yeah, 70hp (with prot 17 and pierce/blunt resistance) for 1.5N each is often a great deal. They will never kill anything with their 6/6 att def len 0 weapon, but that's often not what you need a frontline for. Also, as both inanimate and mindless, they are immune to a lot of spells, some of which have AoE and which you can therefor fire at the frontline without risking your own poo poo. Do be careful that if the only non-mindless are your mages, they get easy to directly target with spells.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



my dad posted:

Here's a new spell + an old spell reworked in 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vroeAE-NNI

Well, Marverni should have spread their mages a bit! he had entire squares full of mages.
And GoH need a longer casting time, imo, not just for Projection, but as general balance.

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Nah, GfH is imho well balanced by friendly fire. The way to defend against it is to have fliers who can get close to the caster and aggro it.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


Tuna-Fish posted:

Yeah, 70hp (with prot 17 and pierce/blunt resistance) for 1.5N each is often a great deal. They will never kill anything with their 6/6 att def len 0 weapon, but that's often not what you need a frontline for. Also, as both inanimate and mindless, they are immune to a lot of spells, some of which have AoE and which you can therefor fire at the frontline without risking your own poo poo. Do be careful that if the only non-mindless are your mages, they get easy to directly target with spells.

Im using this bonkers catbirds as the core of my lategame armies in my current mp game, their longest range breath attack is armor piercing blunt damage so a screening unit with high prot and blunt resistance that they can breath on a lot is perfect

Flavahbeast fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 6, 2024

Nosre
Apr 16, 2002


That is a badass shot

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

Flavahbeast posted:

Im using this bonkers catbirds as the core of my lategame armies in my current mp game, their longest range breath attack is armor piercing blunt damage so a screening unit with high prot and blunt resistance that they can breath on a lot is perfect



Is that in endlessgames?

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


Nah that shot is actually from a test game, I'm only just getting to use them for real next turn in the game I'm in

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God
What summons are those?

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Bremen posted:

What summons are those?

Anzu, Ur/Uruk summon. From 5 to 6 they got changed from air to water (which Ur/Uruk actually use) and summon twice as many per cast for the same cost.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
They're basically dragons for 3 gems each. They're really good.

Mu.
Sep 15, 2003

The thing about Forevereal Modding Mu is that he loves editing files and wants others to download his permanent mods. Fully editing, rich text, altering files and loving it. Download his mods and enjoy it.

oh poo poo is there a list of useless dom5 spells that got a buff

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Mu. posted:

oh poo poo is there a list of useless dom5 spells that got a buff

There was actually one! I don't have it anymore but from Discord I had a spreadsheet from generic summons and how they had improved. Some by cheaper gem cost, others by higher number of effects.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Turin Turambar posted:

This is very dominions.jpg, so I will post it






Also, here it's a relation (not 100% complete) of the summons that are cheaper or more efficient in Dominions 6:

A bit better:
asp turtle
catoblepas
leviathan
reanimation
Fire Ants

~30% better:
abomination
Algae Men
ancient presence
Bog Beasts
fall bears
iron dragon
iron pigs
Killer Mantis
Kraken
naiad warriors
Ogres
Sea Lions
Shades
siege golem
spirit mastery
spring hawks
summer lions
swamp drake
tarrasque
Vine Men
winter wolves
Yetis

50-75% better:
animal horde
claymen
clockwork horrors
enliven gargoyles
ghosts
legion of wights
mechanical men
terracotta army
manticore
Pack of Wolves
spirits of the wood
trolls
vine ogres

100% better:
Animals
Cave Cows
Cave Grubs
Crocodiles
fire snakes
forest giants
forest trolls
great eagles
gryphons
Horned Serpents
lamias
leogryphs
mandragora
manikin
Sea Dogs
shade beasts
wooden construct
ziz

More than 100% :
clockwork soldiers
draconians
sea trolls

Quoting myself, it was in the second page of this thread

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Shade beasts are quite good now if used inside their (hopefully, fairly obvious) niche.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
I believe there was a second round of buffs to summons, especially national summons, in February.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
Draconian are quite good, too. They have a lot of HP and aren't undisciplined. Attack density is poor, but they're strong enough to punch through a lot of protection.

JonBolds
Feb 6, 2015


Ynglaur posted:

Draconian are quite good, too. They have a lot of HP and aren't undisciplined. Attack density is poor, but they're strong enough to punch through a lot of protection.

I used them as mobile second-line defense and was very satisfied. Put a crown of command on the boss and just let him sit there filling up his army of dragon guys by calling them manually each turn, then could fly to intercept raids.

ImpossibleNight
Oct 1, 2021

Speleothing posted:

We had some spammers this week so we deactivated all of the old links.

https://discord.com/invite/K3GVQuFV

Here's a new one for you.

Came across this while searching for a link back to ruby. Went to ask something in the mod making channel and realized ‘hey, my new discord account isn’t in the drat server.’

This link seems to be down as well. Was there another wave of spam or did I like, just miss the timer?

Samog
Dec 13, 2006
At least I'm not an 07.
Try https://discord.gg/YysqRkuSCk

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Why is the performance in this game so weird? I get ~75 fps in Windows 10 at 2560x1440 and I get 170 fps at the same resolution and same settings in Linux.

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

Why is the performance in this game so weird? I get ~75 fps in Windows 10 at 2560x1440 and I get 170 fps at the same resolution and same settings in Linux.

For complicated reasons, modern GPUs/display driver stack cannot really execute much more draw calls than it could ~10-15 years ago, you can just stuff a lot more work per call these days. The game inefficiently does a lot of small draw calls. System overhead for issuing calls is smaller on Linux.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Tuna-Fish posted:

For complicated reasons, modern GPUs/display driver stack cannot really execute much more draw calls than it could ~10-15 years ago, you can just stuff a lot more work per call these days. The game inefficiently does a lot of small draw calls. System overhead for issuing calls is smaller on Linux.

hosed up

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

Tuna-Fish posted:

For complicated reasons, modern GPUs/display driver stack cannot really execute much more draw calls than it could ~10-15 years ago, you can just stuff a lot more work per call these days. The game inefficiently does a lot of small draw calls. System overhead for issuing calls is smaller on Linux.

That's fascinating. I like to think I'm fairly up on tech but I had no idea about this. Thanks for posting it!

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Since probably Proton 5 or 6, most games I've played run smoother and faster on Linux than Windows with the same hardware. Neat to get a peak behind why that is.

Samog
Dec 13, 2006
At least I'm not an 07.
rejoice! the year of linux on the desktop has ascended

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
This game had 1(one) tester with a Mac computer.

The game does not support his version.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

So just to put in an illustrative example of just how stupid the built-in mapgen can be with the underground, here's one from very late in an LA game.




Ignoring any other balancing issues with the underground, this kind of warped distribution of cave entrances (Pan and Mari there are literally referring to their caps), combined with just how many UG provinces were generated for some reason (there are no UG nations in this game) is hugely game warping. Mari's actually the province leader despite having like 15 or less surface provinces... and most people aren't going to realize this since their "normal" surface footprint is so small.

Also, to be clear, those aren't "islands with a connection to a land province over a water connection (and thus you could freeze them)." Those are islands wholly surrounded by water provinces.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 11, 2024

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos

Lord Koth posted:

So just to put in an illustrative example of just how stupid the built-in mapgen can be with the underground, here's one from very late in an LA game.




Ignoring any other balancing issues with the underground, this kind of warped distribution of cave entrances (Pan and Mari there are literally referring to their caps), combined with just how many UG provinces were generated for some reason (there are no UG nations in this game) is hugely game warping. Mari's actually the province leader despite having like 15 or less surface provinces... and most people aren't going to realize this since their "normal" surface footprint is so small.

Also, to be clear, those aren't "islands with a connection to a land province over a water connection (and thus you could freeze them)." Those are islands wholly surrounded by water provinces.

Don't use the donut.

Normal undergrounds aren't perfect, but they're better.

Samog
Dec 13, 2006
At least I'm not an 07.
the donut sucks so bad

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

I love the donut for small maps. Wouldn't want to do it on a larger one

Boksi
Jan 11, 2016
As the Marignon player from the game that pic is from, I agree, the donut is absolutely stupid. My awake expander god just went down into the caves and never emerged again. There was a bit where I outright lost all my above-ground territory to Utgård but the only bit that hurt was losing my cap for a while because I couldn't recruit my cap-onlies. I eventually beat his doomstack when we both attacked each other simultaneously, with the main battle taking place in the cave(where I won thanks to demons having darkvision), and their retreat being cut off by a single fallen angel I had flying in from a different province to support my attack and who took out all the PD despite being scripted to cast heat from hell -> cast spells.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
With regards to Mu's latest video:

Pain of Mind
Jul 10, 2004
You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t
For more donut cave pile ons, they are less than ideal since you could easily get blocked in by thrones or very difficult indies and cannot really expand freely, and it takes forever to get anywhere. Here is the map from Goldfinch_late. The cave is not the worst thing in the world, though that is a lot of provinces for so few surface entrances (and it would be nice if there was a set distance from each cave start capital, so there is an equal chance to make the surface for all cave nations). However, look at how the caves interact with the surface, you are a million miles from thrones and pretty much have no way of capturing them without killing everyone in the game to get there. It looks to be about 13-15 turns walking in a straight line to most of the thrones, and since other people are in the game you cannot really do that. There are multiple nations who start closer to 5 thrones than cave nations started from the surface. You also need to leave large standing armies in reserve on either end of your circle donut because it might take 12 turns to reinforce one end to the other if you are fighting on one side and then get attacked from the other. Maybe more of an indictment of the map generator, but I think a standard large cave tends to have less moves to get anywhere. I forgot to turn off all map filters so I just cropped it, hopefully casting gnome lore is not breaking opsec too much.

I circled thrones in red, cave entrances in orange, and cave capital starts in black. I am the north one, furthest from everything, each dash is a turn to get to the surface.



Pain of Mind fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 12, 2024

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Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.
Having an entrance guaranteed in the cave-start's cap-circle would be a nice boost

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