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Pockyless posted:This game isnt for you if you think doing a combo is cheap Combos are cool as hell, I just wish they weren't so lethal for how little it takes to do them. WorldIndustries posted:yes, sorry Ah, I was signing myself up for posts like this when I was being honest, so I can't blame you for it. CharlieFoxtrot posted:I guess the question is, are you unhappy that you're getting hit with big combo damage, or that it exists at all? It's the feeling of being juggled and losing control for so long. Another fighting game I've played in the past and enjoy a lot is Blazblue, where they have a combo breaker system that allows you to free yourself out of a combo once per match(roughly) as it can be done during hitstun and launches your opponent backward and away from you when it hits. At a minimum, it gives you some agency even when you're getting trashed, you at least have one more chance to try again. For a game as lethal as Tekken, I think something like that would be cool. If not that, then safer options on wake-up would be cool too, to reduce the amount of getting comboed and then reset into another combo and then the match ends without you ever actually doing anything.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:40
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Umbreon posted:Combos are cool as hell, I just wish they weren't so lethal for how little it takes to do them. Yeah the bolded parts: 1. Like I mentioned, getting launched is not trivial. Simply stand blocking when you are not advantaged will stop you from getting launched in most cases, because most characters cannot launch you with a low normal hit except with very slow reactable moves that you can low block (and launch them in return). If someone gets launched, that means they were punished for unwarranted aggression or there was a hole in their defense, and the high damage is supposed to be a reward for that? If they weren't there then the default would be to just randomly swing (this is not how you're supposed to play the game). 2. Getting up is extremely difficult in this game, for sure, so I understand the pain (I am still completely out of my depth on this in a lot of cases lol) and there's a lot to study. But there are no easy relaunch situations on getup; some characters do have oki traps but those are also usually reactable or highly punishable if you know what they are. (That is a real barrier to Tekken in that there are a lot of knowledge checks for sure, the ones that players are abusing at lower ranks are probably easily countered but you do need to learn them). Like in neutral, getting up while blocking will stop most offense unless they show you something different and then you do something different I guess the comparison with anime games is funny because I cannot understand anime games at all and even something like Street Fighter where its constantly mashing for confirms or RPSing getup throw loops seems like it's operating on an axis i can't understand. Tekken is slower and has a more sensible neutral game from my perspective lol Edit: Oh, I really ahve to check since you mentioned a 2d game and talked about getting launched a lot... You do know that crouch blocking is not the default in this game and will get you launched right
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Apr 17, 2024 04:56
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I’m a fellow noob but are you doing anything other than holding back to wake up? At this level of play, it’s entirely reliable.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:59
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I get the frustration, and unfortunately, maybe Tekken 8 is just not the game for you? This one has the Heat Smash, has the Heat Dash, and has quite a number of armour moves, which makes it even extra oppressive over regular Tekken. Like previous games also did massive damage (cue infamous Tekken 7 Akuma/Geese) but they didn't really have any real get out of jail free cards. But also, this part shows a difference between how you think and how I think at least: Umbreon posted:Combos are cool as hell, I just wish they weren't so lethal for how little it takes to do them. When I'm getting combo'd, I don't like hang onto the feeling that I've lost control, I'm normally spending it thinking. - Do I know the character? What's the common ender at the end, and how are they likely to follow up, and what should I do? - Do I have data on the player? Are they likely to drop and I need to react fast if they do? Do they have a certain mixup that they favour over others (almost always the answer is yes) and what can I do about it? Are they steadfast and risk averse (probably should play it safe) or are they greedy at this moment in time (they might go high risk, what can I do to punish them for it)? - How fancy is the combo? (A good gauge of their confidence level, especially if they're doing a fancier than usual one) - How did I get into that situation in the first place? It's a hit yes, but was it because I was trying to mash at a time I shouldn't have been mashing? Am I sure - should I attempt to induce the same situation and try a different response on my side? Or should I try to make sure it never repeats again, and if so, how? What I'm trying to say is, I don't think of myself as not playing the game even though I've lost control or gotten punished for guessing wrong or anything like that. I'm mostly "Ah, drat, okay. Let's see....." Not saying necessarily that you have to think this way or to engage the game on this level either. If you've already hit your tipping point, maybe talking it out and possibly dropping the game is best. I'm just saying this is how I approach fighting games in general, and if you try maybe there's still fun to be had there. Or maybe it feels like it's too much effort and that's it for Tekken 8. That's okay too.
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Apr 17, 2024 05:00
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Umbreon posted:For a game as lethal as Tekken, I think something like that would be cool. If not that, then safer options on wake-up would be cool too, to reduce the amount of getting comboed and then reset into another combo and then the match ends without you ever actually doing anything. either ditch the game now because you aren't having fun, or keep playing until you figure out basic blocking, movement, oki and counterhits. you are not getting reset into another combo, you don't know how to block or you're getting counterhit by mashing. tekken is a hard game to learn, it would not be prudent to assume you know enough to start reworking it in your mind. honestly i'm not sure how anyone can form a decent opinion of a fighting game on day 1. how much time did you spend learning the systems and playing with the cpu before jumping online? for that matter, and don't take this as an attack, but are you posting here for sympathy or because you want to get better? Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 05:35
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Even though burst exists blazblue is the opposite example of a game that has short combos with player agency during them. Bnbs regularly last 10+ irl seconds
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Apr 17, 2024 05:41
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:
That much I could tell, yeah. It's actually one of the qualities that got me to try this game in the first place, it was so foreign to me that a fighting game would default to stand blocking rather than crouch blocking with lows being the slow things you want to react to rather than overheads. Artelier posted:I get the frustration, and unfortunately, maybe Tekken 8 is just not the game for you? This one has the Heat Smash, has the Heat Dash, and has quite a number of armour moves, which makes it even extra oppressive over regular Tekken. Like previous games also did massive damage (cue infamous Tekken 7 Akuma/Geese) but they didn't really have any real get out of jail free cards. I guess the main point of frustration is that I'm new to this game and I really want to actually interact with my opponent more and get better, but only having a couple of chances of that per match really sucks. It's not completely worthless, the chances I get are valuable and I do my best to learn from them, I just wish I had more room to make mistakes and keep playing before the match ends, even if the same applied to my opponent. Dr. Fishopolis posted:either ditch the game now because you aren't having fun, or keep playing until you figure out basic blocking, movement, oki and counterhits. you are not getting reset into another combo, you don't know how to block or you're getting counterhit by mashing. tekken is a hard game to learn, it would not be prudent to assume you know enough to start reworking it in your mind. A reset means you missed an opportunity to block or otherwise escape being comboed and your opponent started a new combo, usually affecting things like damage proration. That is what's happening to me, although as I play more matches it's happening less, I'm guessing because my MMR is sinking enough that I'm finally getting placed with actual newbies and low skill players rather than vets picking up Tekken 8. I completed the arcade quest, spent a few hours with the CPU, and did a lot of practice in training mode before I headed in. I also agree that no one can have a decent opinion on a day one of a fighting game, that's why I'm still playing right now despite how frustrating it is. I'm just posting my initial impressions and frustrations is all. For what is worth, I got my first batch of rage quitters today, apparently people really hate it when I repeatedly throw them on wake up as King and 2 people in a row disconnected the moment I chain grabbed them at near 0 HP. Yes I felt bad, but I quickly learned people can just spam some sort of light attack and stop me from jag sprinting at them, so I guess anyone who falls for that needs to learn more too Umbreon fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 07:47
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The only way you're getting launched so much is if you're pressing buttons constantly when it's not your turn or you're literally holding forward into their attacks. You are getting to interact a lot with your opponent, you're just losing those interactions consistently. Let's say each combo does on average 70 damage. It will take 3 combos to kill you each round since every character has 180 health. There are 3 rounds in a match, and it's first to 2 in a ranked set. That means you are getting to make at least 18 meaningful interactions with your opponent even if you were to lose every single one. You can watch two replays and see at least 18 times that you got hit and why, and you can even take over your character from that point in the replay and figure out how to win the interaction. (For most of those the answer is to hold back to block.) A lot of combos in Tekken 8 are easy, but the only reason you're getting hit by so many is because you made decisions that caused you to get launched. If you did that 18 times in a first to two set then yeah you should probably lose. Realistically you are probably interacting with your opponent 10+ times in a single round, so I really don't understand how much more you want opportunities to not gently caress up.
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Apr 17, 2024 08:12
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Umbreon, I went through that frustration phase too, check my earlier posts! I found there's less skill transfer from 2d fgs to Tekken and my noob phase isn't over yet, but at least I was taught how to start engaging with the game. Post your matches, there's a lot of support in this thread. I ended up taking Azucena to red ranks, now I'm considering attempting the same with characters that usually destroy me because I can't parse their playstyle through labbing alone. Law and Lars up next, probably. Char fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 08:26
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If it’s any consolation I’m bumming around Mighty Ruler rank (18th Dan) and still have sessions where I’m just getting dumpstered because I’m misjudging when it’s safe to hit a button or anything along those lines and get an extended trip to the wall for half my health. Game’s hard to learn and I’ve absolutely had sessions where I rage-queued longer than needing to before just slamming alt-F4 after one too many losses. Tekken is just gonna be like that sometimes. The replay and training tools are excellent though if there’s something specific you want to try to figure out how to handle or punish, and I know folks in here have posted replays for review and advice before if that’s a road you want to go down. If nothing else, hey, you’re playing King. Try to figure out a few throw options (especially those with a 1+2 break, folks mashing in low ranks aren’t going to break those with any regularity) and live up to the character reputation.
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Apr 17, 2024 14:06
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Umbreon posted:A reset means you missed an opportunity to block or otherwise escape being comboed and your opponent started a new combo, usually affecting things like damage proration. That is what's happening to me correct, you missed the opportunity to block because you either don't understand how blocking works or you're mashing. i don't know what "damage proration" means, I don't think it has anything to do with tekken. e: oh, you mean damage scaling! no buddy you just got hit lol. scaling starts at the start of a combo and you didn't block, so you just eat it again. next time, block or don't swing. Umbreon posted:I also agree that no one can have a decent opinion on a day one of a fighting game, that's why I'm still playing right now despite how frustrating it is. I'm just posting my initial impressions and frustrations is all. cool, but a lot of people are giving you advice that you seem to be selectively ignoring, which is why i asked why you're posting here. if you just wanna vent then i think you've said your piece, if you want to learn then start asking questions and listening to the answers. Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 14:42
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I'm not joking or trying to gatekeep you, but if the game "feels super gross" to do offense then the game legitimately isn't for you.
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Apr 17, 2024 14:47
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I don't think it's unreasonable to get out of a session at the bottom end of the ranked ladder, feel like every time you got smacked you got styled on like you were in the wrong EVO pool, and wonder what the hell's going on. It's just learning the speed and pace of the game's offense and realizing that it's actually not going to be long at all for you to similarly be doing that to your opponents too.
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Apr 17, 2024 15:45
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Tortolia posted:I don't think it's unreasonable to get out of a session at the bottom end of the ranked ladder, feel like every time you got smacked you got styled on like you were in the wrong EVO pool, and wonder what the hell's going on. It's just learning the speed and pace of the game's offense and realizing that it's actually not going to be long at all for you to similarly be doing that to your opponents too. And sometimes both things (getting styled on VS styling on) happen in the same session! Oh no, Azucena is in Libertador Stance! What's she gonna do? Wow, a low kick! And now she's in back turn stance! What's she gonna do? Unbelievable! Another low kick! And she's back in Libertador Stance now! Is she going for the mix-up? No! Another low kick! Back in back turn stance! etc.etc. The enemy took 50% health off not blocking 4 kicks, 3-0 3-0 Next set, you get your first low kick blocked, you get launched and killed. You try going for the mixup, you hit 1+2 for the bunny hop punch, you get blocked, launched, and killed. 0-3 0-3 Char fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 16:11
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Char posted:Umbreon, I went through that frustration phase too, check my earlier posts! I'm reading your posts, I swear. Everyone here, even the people being lovely to me, are getting read. If I don't respond to you, it's unlikely to be on purpose! interrodactyl posted:The only way you're getting launched so much is if you're pressing buttons constantly when it's not your turn or you're literally holding forward into their attacks. Is it greedy to want more anyway? This game is crazy fun and even exciting, which is all the more reason that it blows when the match is over in what feels like a flash. Dr. Fishopolis posted:correct, you missed the opportunity to block because you either don't understand how blocking works or you're mashing. i don't know what "damage proration" means, I don't think it has anything to do with tekken. Dr. Fishopolis posted:cool, but a lot of people are giving you advice that you seem to be selectively ignoring, which is why i asked why you're posting here. if you just wanna vent then i think you've said your piece, if you want to learn then start asking questions and listening to the answers. Nope, not ignoring anyone, you guys(despite the few who are also making GBS threads on me) got me to reconsider my opinion, and I've been applying the advice too. I'm no longer losing every match and I'm starting to see blockstrings and gaps to fight back at where I didn't before. Likely because of my rank going into the toilet, but that's fine by me. Tortolia posted:If it’s any consolation I’m bumming around Mighty Ruler rank (18th Dan) and still have sessions where I’m just getting dumpstered because I’m misjudging when it’s safe to hit a button or anything along those lines and get an extended trip to the wall for half my health. Game’s hard to learn and I’ve absolutely had sessions where I rage-queued longer than needing to before just slamming alt-F4 after one too many losses. Tekken is just gonna be like that sometimes. That's the current hardest part for me, it's really hard to tell when it's safe to hit a button, and I still have to figure out which buttons I'm allowed to press. Much of the time, nothing comes out when I try to press, but I'm counterhit so the game saw that I was pressing something. Or, the hitstun lasts so long that my input for my counterattack gets eaten and when the next attack comes out I'm just standing like a chump and take it in the face without doing anything. Or, I actually do get a button off, but it doesn't have enough range or it whiffs. Those are all things I'll learn about as time passes, but there's one thing I'm still clueless about : There are many times when I go for a throw, I see the animation of my throw start and it lands on the opponent, but when the actual attack animation starts, it's ME getting thrown. It looks like theyre just completely overriding my throw while just standing there beforehand. How are they doing that? Pockyless posted:I'm not joking or trying to gatekeep you, but if the game "feels super gross" to do offense then the game legitimately isn't for you.
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Apr 17, 2024 16:31
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Dunno if this is the right place to ask, but I recently got an 8bitdo arcade stick controller, since using a Switch Pro style controller was murdering my hands - I was literally in pain all the time. It's good... but I've gone down 2-3 ranks since getting it - from Mighty Ruler to around the top of Garyu. The main thing seems to be that I'm finding it difficult to reliably hit the inputs on the stick - particularly like, fast fw - fw - fw inputs and stuff like that because it takes a lot of getting used to. You have to push the stick just the right amount forward to engage the switch, let it rebound just the right amount to disengage the switch, hit it just the right amount and release just the right amount.... If you push the stick too far to make the input then it affects the rebound time and if you don't release enough then the switch doesn't disengage. If you wait for the stick to return to centre fully before each input then your inputs become quite slow a lot of the time. I'm wondering if I should try to replace or mod the stick with one that has a smaller deadzone and/or a faster rebound (stronger spring) etc. For anybody not familiar with fightsticks, changing out sticks and modding them (e.g. changing the spring) is apparently super common - so I guess that's some kind of proof that there are improvements to be made. Anybody got any experience with this? I've played maybe 15 hours or something since getting the stick, and I *have* improved somewhat but I feel a bit like I'm hitting a wall with it, and I'm not sure if I just fundamentally suck with a stick or if making hardware changes might make a dramatic difference.
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Apr 17, 2024 16:38
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Umbreon posted:The stuff I'm getting reset on the most seems to be big sweeping attacks while I'm trying to wake up from being comboed. I did a bit of research and found that these attacks are typically homing, which explains how theyre hitting me no matter which direction I roll, and as theyre also hitting low, they can catch my wakeup attacks too. How do I deal with those? I even tried delaying my wakeup a bit but that gets me hit too. when the combo is over, you're lying on the ground. you can either hold back to get up and block, or down back to get up and block low. whatever you're doing that isn't one of those two options is getting you killed, stop it. homing moves have almost nothing to do with grounded states. stop reading terminology, half understanding it and making assumptions. listen to me. you don't know how to play. you know next to nothing about tekken. i'm begging you to slow down, realize what you don't know, ask questions and take the advice that's given rather than bumbling around and posting about bumbling around while everyone who does know how to play yells at you. Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 16:42
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WhatEvil posted:I'm wondering if I should try to replace or mod the stick with one that has a smaller deadzone and/or a faster rebound (stronger spring) etc. You could do that and it might help, but stick is objectively the most difficult input method. People buy them because they like the nostalgia, they're pros who learned on cabs or that's what they grew up with, but a d-pad or leverless is strictly "better". Personally I would return it and go leverless, I switched to keyboard first because I was also having hand problems with a controller and eventually built my own hitbox. They're cheap as heck nowadays, look into the haute42 stuff.
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Apr 17, 2024 16:46
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:you can't wake up from being comboed. when the combo is over, you're lying on the ground. you can either hold back to get up and block, or down back to get up and block low. whatever you're doing that isn't one of those two options is getting you killed, stop it. homing moves have almost nothing to do with grounded states. stop reading terminology, half understanding it and making assumptions. I am literally doing that. You just answered a question of mine that I'm supposedly not asking. You need to slow down too my man. I'm here in this thread asking questions and applying advice, no need to accuse me of otherwise. As for the wake-up options, Yes I'm aware you can't wake up from being comboed, I'm talking about after the combo is over and they do a follow-up move while I'm trying to wake up. Holding back seems to work great if I was pushed far away from my opponent, but if they're still on top of me and I try it, my character seems to just lie there and leaves himself open for a second, which often gets me hit again. Is there some sort of timing to getting up while blocking?(Like "don't hold it too early of the input won't count", or "only try to block on wake up once you're sure you're free to act again")
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Apr 17, 2024 16:55
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Umbreon posted:You're not trying to, but if I wasn't stubborn as hell you'd be unintentionally doing a great job of gatekeeping. he's completely right. tekken 8 is entirely balanced around oppressive offense. you spent your first 3 posts in this thread complaining that getting blown up and blowing other people up in this game feels bad and you don't like it. what the hell else are we supposed to say?
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Apr 17, 2024 16:58
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Umbreon posted:That's the current hardest part for me, it's really hard to tell when it's safe to hit a button, and I still have to figure out which buttons I'm allowed to press. Much of the time, nothing comes out when I try to press, but I'm counterhit so the game saw that I was pressing something. Or, the hitstun lasts so long that my input for my counterattack gets eaten and when the next attack comes out I'm just standing like a chump and take it in the face without doing anything. Or, I actually do get a button off, but it doesn't have enough range or it whiffs. Those are all things I'll learn about as time passes, but there's one thing I'm still clueless about : This is going to sound like a shitpost, and obviously it's not true at all times, but someone in this thread a while back pointed out something for another new player similarly having issues: If you're not sure if it's your turn yet, it's not your turn yet, don't hit a button. Like yeah, if you think about it objectively you're never going to win a match if you don't actually do offense yourself, but a lot of the early game and early ranks (particularly against some of the more prevalent matchups) is internalizing how many hits their common attack strings are and waiting for them to finish doing them, or getting a sense if the 4th hit is going to be a slow wind-up that you can duck or sidestep or throw them out of or whatever. On a similar note, a lot of low rank folks get really into round-start flowchart and almost always do the same thing, so if you notice that happening, you can try to devise a countermeasure; throw them, duck, sidestep, do a quick jab if it's slow, etc. All this being said, the whole "poo poo, when is it my turn" thing is an ongoing and long term concern, particularly against particular characters or matchups that you're not as familiar with. I've noticed recently that the periodic Nina matchups I'm getting are a real struggle because she has just incredibly rolling offense that I'm not really confident enough at dealing with. I can't speak towards the latter other than it might be some sort of rollback thing where you both tried to throw and their input technically beat yours; if it's specific characters it's happening repeatedly with I also couldn't rule out some sort of counter stance or whatnot. Are there particular matchups you feel this is happening during? Tortolia fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 17:01
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:he's completely right. tekken 8 is entirely balanced around oppressive offense. you spent your first 3 posts in this thread complaining that getting blown up and blowing other people up in this game feels bad and you don't like it. what the hell else are we supposed to say? There are some other posters who emphasized and gave helpful advice. They're *right there*, next to the people telling me to stop playing.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:02
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Something that I found helpful early on was having friends to play with who were patient and understanding. There is so much to learn and unless you're willing to put in a lot of effort it can be very discouraging. They would kindly point out things like armour, power crush moves, moves with plus frames, etc. It was still a lot to digest and absorb but getting my rear end kicked constantly was a lot more fun and tolerable in that environment than I think it would have been trying to grind in casual or ranked mode.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:09
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Umbreon posted:As for the wake-up options, Yes I'm aware you can't wake up from being comboed, I'm talking about after the combo is over and they do a follow-up move while I'm trying to wake up. Holding back seems to work great if I was pushed far away from my opponent, but if they're still on top of me and I try it, my character seems to just lie there and leaves himself open for a second, which often gets me hit again. Is there some sort of timing to getting up while blocking?(Like "don't hold it too early of the input won't count", or "only try to block on wake up once you're sure you're free to act again") your description of the interaction made it sound like you're getting launched into a combo from a low attack while lying down. there are only a small number of characters that can launch with a low attack on normal hit, and those attacks are all slow enough that you can block them on reaction. if that's actually what's happening then it's very rare and you should hold down back to block low, and then launch punish them because that poo poo is incredibly unsafe. if you're just getting hit with one extra low on the ground before you can get up or react, yeah sometimes that's unavoidable or not worth countering. get up and keep playing. if you really want good advice, post a replay of a match so we can figure out what's actually happening. it's hard to describe what's going on when you don't know what's going on. Umbreon posted:There are some other posters who emphasized and gave helpful advice. They're *right there*, next to the people telling me to stop playing. listen, if you don't want people to tell you this might not be the game for you maybe don't kramer in and start posting about how much you don't like it and you're not having fun lmao Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 17:12
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Umbreon, what rank are you at? I feel like you must be missing some real fundamentals like knowing what wakeup options you have. First of all, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58LncnVbXM If you haven't already watched it, I *guarantee* there are at least a couple of things in there you don't know about. Then, wakeup specific: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqen6VfqcC8 This vid talks about all your wakeup options. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsRQJZUY-YA This vid talks about how to block from wakeup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEymS90T5D0 This vid talks in some detail about an option most players below like, red or purple ranks possibly don't know about - you can press up to get up more quickly. So basically - mash 1 to roll immediately on landing (when landing flat at the end of a combo - does not work when you land with legs up which allows opponent to continue the combo), hold down and back or back to block straight after standing, or use up to stand up more quickly and block mids/highs more quickly than you would if using back or down-back. If you still find yourself getting hit by stuff on wakeup, lab against the character and moves you're having problems with specifically. Sometimes if you don't know what to expect, don't know the matchup etc. it can be better to eat one hit on the ground THEN stand up, than it is to stand up and get hit with something while waking up and launched into another combo etc. More generally just practice practice practice. Watch videos - PhiDX on youtube is a fantastic teacher (one of the vids above is him). Watch specific videos on the issues you're having plus watch more general tips - because there might be things you're not doing or not doing right/optimally, and you don't even know it. Most importantly GET IN THE LAB AND ACTUALLY PRACTICE SPECIFIC STUFF. Throw breaks, wakeup, punishes, combos, stuff like that. If you're having trouble against a specific character or specific moves from a character then get in the lab and practice that poo poo. By far the easiest way to practice is to use Replays. Right after you finish a match, when you feel all butthurt about a particular move or combo or whatever that your opponent was using on you, that you don't know how to deal with, go use the replay to practice how to counter. There are a ton of vids out there on how to practice, how to use the lab, how to use the replay system to improve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKpEGJh3pts Umbreon posted:That's the current hardest part for me, it's really hard to tell when it's safe to hit a button, and I still have to figure out which buttons I'm allowed to press. Much of the time, nothing comes out when I try to press, but I'm counterhit so the game saw that I was pressing something. Or, the hitstun lasts so long that my input for my counterattack gets eaten and when the next attack comes out I'm just standing like a chump and take it in the face without doing anything. Or, I actually do get a button off, but it doesn't have enough range or it whiffs. Those are all things I'll learn about as time passes, but there's one thing I'm still clueless about : This is tough for a new player, but you really just have to practice. Take note of which moves from which characters are giving you trouble, get in the lab and figure out when those characters are at minus frames. A couple of things you might not know that can help: You can buffer inputs. This means that if you get a block off on a move, so long as the block is actually happening, you can release back and push a button and the move will come out the instant the block animation is over. If you wait for it to look like it's safe, like the opponent attack is over, then hit the button, you will lose frames and might miss a punish you otherwise would have hit. Of course if you release and try to push to early, it won't work and you'll get counterhit. Some characters have strings where you can get hits in between e.g. hits 2 and 3. Azucena, Xiaoyu, Dragunov, Jin all come to mind. I can't tell you what the move names are but I'm pretty sure they all have them. Or maybe more specifically they *look* like strings but they're sort of not? I don't know how best to describe it. Anyway, know what your fastest punish is - it's usually a 10 frame jab. If you want to work out, in the middle of a match, if you can get a hit in after blocking a specific opponent move, the first thing to try is your fastest move. If you can't get a punish in with that, then nothing else is gonna work. If the jab works, you can potentially try with an 11,12 frame move, if that works you can try the next time with a 13 or 14 frame move, and if that works you can try with a 15 frame launcher. But honestly the best thing to do is GET IN THE LAB. Umbreon posted:There are some other posters who emphasized and gave helpful advice. They're *right there*, next to the people telling me to stop playing. The main thing people should be telling you is this: Do your homework, or stop complaining. Practice to learn to counter the things you don't like, if you still don't like is, or you're not willing to do the work to practice and get better, then they're right, the game is not for you. It's like if you were learning chess and kept complaining "Oh man I keep getting beaten by the King's Indian Defense, this game sucks, it feels horrible". The answer would be to do your homework, practice, learn better fundamentals and general techniques, do specific study against the King's Indian Defense, and if you still hate it, or you're not willing to do the work, then the game is not for you. If you can continue to play and get beaten by the King's Indian Defense once in a while, but still enjoy it, then great, keep playing. The answer for Tekken is exactly the same. Only instead of the King's Indian Defense, you might hate King's running dick punch. If people are being lovely to you it's because you're making general complaints about how certain aspects of the game are just "bad". They're not going to change, so either suck it up, learn how to play better, or stop playing. I encourage you to learn to play better, which is why I put a load of effort into making this post, but honestly it seems to me like one of the things you could do to increase your enjoyment of the game is to change your attitude towards it. WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 17:14
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Tortolia posted:This is going to sound like a shitpost, and obviously it's not true at all times, but someone in this thread a while back pointed out something for another new player similarly having issues: No particular matchups, and it doesn't happen every match or anything, it just confuses the poo poo out of me because the timing so perfectly matches when I expect to see my own throw that it actually takes me a second to realize I'm the one being thrown instead. And man, I've been kind of subconsciously hanging back and feeling out opponents offense, but you make a great point, I need to start doing this more actively and with the intention of learning about gaps in blockstrings and what options they have. I'll for sure lose many matches doing this, but the knowledge will pay off big time later. WhatEvil posted:Umbreon, what rank are you at? I feel like you must be missing some real fundamentals like knowing what wakeup options you have. Incredibly helpful post, there's a gold mine of new stuff in here that'll help me a ton. That wake-up guide alone has already won me a few matches, I had no idea there were so many options on wake-up and I was even doing one of them incorrectly and getting myself hit(but not anymore!). Your effortpost is EXTREMELY appreciated, thanks a ton for this. I've got a lot of homework to do, but it's exciting and I can already see where I can put this stuff to use.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:43
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WhatEvil posted:Dunno if this is the right place to ask, but I recently got an 8bitdo arcade stick controller, since using a Switch Pro style controller was murdering my hands - I was literally in pain all the time. Stick is hard to learn and there are a million things you can do to mod them to fit your own preferences. Personally i prefer seimitsu sticks like the ls-32/38 because it has a stiffer spring and shorter actuation point for the switches, but a lot of other people like MYK prefer using korean levers for tekken because the rubber tensioner is even stronger helps when doing movement inputs. The stock stick in the 8bitdo is a sanwa jlf clone but if i remember right its a bit looser. On the bright side you can swap in most levers. You can change it out but it wont solve your problems completely, you still have to practice a bunch. Here is the arcadeshock compatibility guide. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0748/3745/files/AS-LeverGuide-ver097.pdf
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Apr 17, 2024 17:43
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Umbreon posted:As for the wake-up options, Yes I'm aware you can't wake up from being comboed, I'm talking about after the combo is over and they do a follow-up move while I'm trying to wake up. Holding back seems to work great if I was pushed far away from my opponent, but if they're still on top of me and I try it, my character seems to just lie there and leaves himself open for a second, which often gets me hit again. Is there some sort of timing to getting up while blocking?(Like "don't hold it too early of the input won't count", or "only try to block on wake up once you're sure you're free to act again") This might be a complexity level a layer above what you need to focus on (you really need to know the basics first and those videos above are good) but if someone is really trying to relaunch you on wakeup, those setups usually come from combos that end with you on the ground in any position besides FUFT (face up, feet towards the opponent). FUFT is the safest grounded position since holding back will take you away from the opponent and with your back away from them. In other positions, holding back to get up can expose your back to them and that's what allows for more dangerous launchers, so you need to roll over (this might expose you to one grounded hit but is better than getting another combo). Other wakeup traps involve charging up for unblockable moves, but those are incredibly obvious (if someone is starting to glow or spinning around then uh just stay down lol)
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Apr 17, 2024 17:50
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Pockyless posted:Stick is hard to learn and there are a million things you can do to mod them to fit your own preferences. Personally i prefer seimitsu sticks like the ls-32/38 because it has a stiffer spring and shorter actuation point for the switches, but a lot of other people like MYK prefer using korean levers for tekken because the rubber tensioner is even stronger helps when doing movement inputs. The stock stick in the 8bitdo is a sanwa jlf clone but if i remember right its a bit looser. On the bright side you can swap in most levers. You can change it out but it wont solve your problems completely, you still have to practice a bunch. Ah yeah thanks I've done some homework and seen the lever compatibility guide on Reddit etc. already. This is good info though thanks. I know I still have to practice and I have been improving somewhat but also I just think I don't like the feel of this particular stick, particularly the centre deadzone, the like, "outside deadzone" (dunno if this has an actual name) i.e. how far you can push the lever past the switch activation point, and I'm thinking I might also switch from a square gate to octagonal. I guess if anything I want like a hard or semi-hard stop for the lever immediately after the switch is activated, plus a fast rebound to centre so yeah maybe a korean lever would be best. I guess in an ideal world I'd be able to go somewhere and try a bunch of different ones to see what I like the feel of, but I'm pretty sure there's nowhere near me (or possibly anywhere) where that's possible. I know some people who are really into fighters end up with like, 10 different controllers but I'm not trying to spend hundreds more dollars on hardware.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:56
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Arcade shock has a physical location in southern california to try them out but otherwise no. I strongly suggest you do not get an octogate especially for tekken because it will make a bunch of moves feel really weird. Its a common line of thought that people new to stick go down but it wont help much if at all. You will still get misinputs inherent to not having mastery over controls yet and anyone that borrows your stick will hate it (that may be a plus for you if you dont want anyone using your stick)
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Apr 17, 2024 18:03
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Gonna plug the goonsgarden discord again cuz the best/fastest way to improve is to have someone blow you up for your bad habits brutally and repeatedly, and then tell you what those bad habits are so you can adapt.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:08
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No one's telling you the real ground game trick Umbreon: you need to yolo 3+4 hop kick getup. Maybe even a hold down + 3 toe kick. Both are launch punishable if the other person is prepared but they're not. If they are though then you should probably stop but no one ever sees it coming. Also sometimes taking a boot to the head instead of being in some mixup is fine. If I don't know what kind of bullshit someone will pull I'll just lie there and take a kick to the head then press up to get up and block.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:53
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Somewhere around 50% of my total damage received in Tekken 7 was as a consequence of my 3+4 spring kick addiction. Now I'm probably down to only doing it about 2-3 times per set, so it's only to blame for maybe 20% of the unnecessary punishment I eat.
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Apr 17, 2024 19:20
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Good ol' down + 3 toe kick, nothing beats that
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Apr 17, 2024 19:27
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Extra Large Marge posted:Good ol' down + 3 toe kick, nothing beats that It's also the most hilarious round ender. "Arg! They tapped my toe with their toe, I can't take anymore!" *falls to the ground in angony*
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Apr 17, 2024 19:35
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Nice Van My Man posted:It's also the most hilarious round ender. "Arg! They tapped my toe with their toe, I can't take anymore!" *falls to the ground in angony* im glad they redid every single animation in the game with meticulous attention to detail including "ah gently caress i landed on my keys" and "gently caress that got me right on the anklebone ah poo poo it's all numb"
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Apr 17, 2024 20:42
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Jesus Christ, Law is truly Frame Trap, The Character 2 2 2 traps 1 1 1 traps d2 3 traps b2 3 4 traps  edit: he's incredibly unfun to play Char fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 21:20
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Alright whos in with me on this chipotle class action forest lawsuit?
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Apr 17, 2024 23:16
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Char posted:Jesus Christ, Law is truly Frame Trap, The Character Oh god d2 3 and junkyard. Every Law player throws out junkyard just to check if you're one of the people traumatised enough to have the low parry built into muscle memory. I also just expect a ki charge by Law. If I don't get a ki charge it's like, what? I'm not good enough to get ki charged? It's reverse manners logic. Nice Van My Man fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 23:27
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I feel the need to call out, based on some of these posts, that 'Hold Back' on wakeup is not get up and block. It's roll back, and you can get blown up for it. The safest of the options is Tech Roll if allowed (press 1 as you hit the ground) or just press Up then Back to stand & block.
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Apr 17, 2024 23:32
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