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Shaman Tank Spec posted:A great post. I will never forget how viscerally they succeeded in making the audience feel the thirst of the Marines on Pelilue when they were fighting for an extended period of time with no water. And yeah, love the scene where Snafu protects Sledge from crossing that line. The way Sledge zombie-style repeats "Jap germs" while his mind is computing this new information and the tension on Snafu's face while he waits to see if his story worked is just a flawless scene. There are some scenes from that series that really stuck with me and really hit me in the feels. Spoilered in case people are inspired to watch it for the first time (and they should!) 1. When everyone gets up to salute CPT Haldane's corpse as it comes back down the hill and then Gunny Haney's mind breaks and they have to usher him away. 2. Basilone's widow visits his family, my God, once the emotional glass breaks. And then at the end you see she never remarried. 3. Sledge breaks down while dove hunting. For real, little Timmy Murphy from Jurassic Park was sensational in this series. 4. Sledge's interaction with the mortally wounded woman he mortared on Okinawa. When this episode aired I think I just  at the turned off TV screen for a good 5 minutes after the credits finished. 5. Snafu lets Sledge sleep peacefully instead of saying goodbye. This scene wrecks me every time I see it Bonus  one - Leckie asks out Vera.
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Apr 25, 2024 01:57
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Wait, the actor who played Sledge was Lil' Timmy from Jurassic Park!?! 
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Apr 25, 2024 02:01
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Sledge breaking down on the hunting trip is legit one of the most powerful scenes in any show or film.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:26
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Jerusalem posted:Wait, the actor who played Sledge was Lil' Timmy from Jurassic Park!?! Yep, Joe Mazello plays Sledge and Timmy.
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Apr 25, 2024 04:24
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That explains why he's so cool and collected, he's battled raptors.
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Apr 25, 2024 04:52
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Gunny Haney is played by Gary Sweet, who was an aussie tv heart throb during the 90s and early 2000s
toggle fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 05:17
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:It's a great show, but god drat it's hard to watch. This is going to come out of nowhere but the end of The Pacific made me think "This is why jazz became what it was post war." I don't know that I'm expressing it right but it was a rando thought considering the headspace of these Marines post war. All those veterans trying to decompress and find peace of mind, it would make sense that they would be drawn to a genre that was relaxed, free form and had no demands on them.
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Apr 25, 2024 06:18
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It's about the horrific was flashbacks we aren't having.
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Apr 25, 2024 06:22
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So episode 3 of The Pacific, Melbourne, feels like a major misstep for the show even all these years later. Not because it's a bad episode, it's not, I actually quite enjoyed it! Not because it doesn't showcase the strange dichotomy expected of the soldiers to be near mindless killers in one environment but respectable and upright citizens in another, because it does and that's a good thing to show! Not because it doesn't show the painful impact "back home" for those left behind in a kind of limbo not knowing if their loved ones are alive but also knowing if they are they could die at any time, because it absolutely does and that's important to show and something Band of Brothers was sorely lacking in. Not because it doesn't show the fragility of the development of wartime relationships that both parties suspect are doomed by either death or distance, because it does that too and this is important. The problem with this episode boils down to the same thing as the secret of great comed-TIMING! It's episode 3. We've just had two episodes of rather intense action so you'd think a breather episode might be in order... but we barely know these characters even now, we've barely gotten a sense of who they were before the war and barely gotten a sense of how being in the war has changed them. So an entire episode dedicated to showing them experiencing an oddly familiar yet alien setting in Australia doesn't quite have the impact it could have had if this had instead been episode 6 or 7. I don't think it's unfair to constantly contrast this show to Band of Brothers given it's a direct follow-up to that series exploring the Pacific rather than European Theater, but consider how strong Crossroads hits as Winters spends a brief leave in Paris and contends with the memories of shooting the young German soldier. That was the 5th episode of the show, and by that point we had gotten to know Winters very well. This episode, which mostly focuses on Leckie, is only the second episode to give us a look at Leckie as a character so we're still mostly unfamiliar. Similarly, Basilone being taken out of the war - while itself an important story to tell - after the previous episode was to first to really prominently feature him means we never really got a chance to see the true depth of the connection to J.P and the now dead Manny, beyond the obvious surface level read of how close they were, and now they've already been split up. It might have meant more one or two or even three episodes later, but the timing of the major offensives doesn't really give us the space to explore that. My memories of first watching The Pacific was that this was a bad episode. As noted above, it's really not. But I still agree with my younger self that it does the show a disservice by upsetting the flow of the story. It comes at exactly the wrong time pacing wise, feeling almost like it is meant to be a resetting of the board when we've barely had time to see how things were being laid out in the first place. I noted when discussing the first two episodes that I felt like the series to this point was a series of very strong scenes that didn't quite come together as a cohesive whole (outside of the first episode theme of heightening the "other" sense of the Japanese in the POV of the Americans, and then neatly subvert that in a way that was uncomfortable to soldier and viewer both), and I feel like this episode continues that trend. Just to get it out of the way, perhaps the most embarrassing part of the episode (and perhaps the series? I'll have to get caught up) comes in the bar scene early in the episode, and reminds me unfortunately too much of the similar RAF Boxing scene in Masters of the Air. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83AV1aRxoPQ But there is a lot to like in this episode, despite my above reservations. I love that the episode is bookended by near shell-shocked, bedraggled and tattered soldiers reacting with confusion and bewilderment to their adoring welcome by the Australians when they arrive, contrasted with their clean and tidy appearance and similarly enthusiastic attitudes as they say goodbyes to people that went from strangers to friends, lovers and accommodating hosts. I love the initial laxness in discipline of the soldiers and the seeming freehand given to them by Military Police that slowly ramps up to a tighter leash, the soldiers becoming accustomed to following orders again, so that by the time they've sent out on their enforced 100 mile hike everybody dreads but accepts what they have to put up with. I love Chesty dressing down Basilone for his lack of discipline while simultaneously selling him on how he can be an asset to the marines in different ways, followed once he's alone by his private glee at knowing that Basilone's antics are precisely the kind of stress-relief he expected from a marine. Most of all though I love the Greek dad Leckie is the major character of this episode and when he drunkenly propositions a pretty Australian girl on the tram and gets her number for his efforts, he ends up finding himself in a seemingly ready-made family. It's through his conversations with them that we get a better sense of who Leckie is (info that would have been helpful earlier) that somewhat explain why he often appears to live in his own head and is comfortable with impressing only himself with how smart he thinks he is. We see how alienated he is from his own family, despite having the large family his girlfriend's mother dreamed of for herself, and how for the first time as he spends time with them that he grasps just what a family truly can be. The parents are welcoming, doting, the mother in particular clearly leaving a distinct impression on Leckie that indicates he felt some lack in his own. But it's the dad who tickles me pink, just this lovely, jovial dude who instantly takes to the guy who has come sniffing around his daughter (contrast with Phillips' awkward handling of his girlfriend's grandfather as eagle-eyed chaperone), and just seems filled with love and joy for the world. It makes the revelation of the impact of the war on them hit all the stronger. The father checks the newspaper each day for the names of Greek soldiers, concerned about who has been injured, gone missing, of been killed. The names are familiar to him, as expected from a small immigrant community, and when they realize one of the dead living only two streets over and was a boy who went to school with their daughter, they instantly head over with a meal where we see the community rallying around the family as a support network. It's both sad and wonderful, seeing how they all look out for each other, and it clearly leaves a deep impression on Leckie. It makes the end of the relationship hit hard too, because it makes Stella's decision to break up with him hurt all the more: she clearly has strong feelings for him, but she's also practical. He could die in battle, and though he throws that at her like an accusation, it is a reasonable assumption to make. That death would be hard enough on her... but on her parents? To bring in a man who they instantly took to, who could be the son(-in-law) they always wanted but never had, and then to learn that he died? The boy who she went to school with and may have never even thought about in years took a clear toll on them, imagine if it was somebody they were already starting to think of as their own family? Leckie and Phillips leave Australia both depressed - Leckie in particular gets so drunk that he pulls a sidearm on an officer and is lucky to end up only demoted - for different reasons. Leckie's relationship with Stella is over, but not only that, so is perhaps the first time in his life where he saw a vision of what "home" could actually mean, only to have it taken from him. Phillips meanwhile leaves unsure if he will ever see his girlfriend again, and she equally unsure if he will return whether he lives or dies. In one way, it's the proof of Stella's fear: the pitfalls of this kind of relationship may be too much to offset the joy that comes from being part of them. It's another casualty of the war, and one repeated many times over in every country and in every war over every century. It's an interesting and compelling story to tell... just, did it have to be episode 3? Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 07:22
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:good post First of all: mind blown at Sledge being Little Timmy. Holy poo poo. Second, the Gunny Haney thing reminded me of the general duality of these Marines. On the one hand all the veterans are at this point brutal and hardened killers who won't blink twice at the idea of roasting a bunker full of enemies with a flamethrower and then yelling "don't shoot them, let the fuckers burn" when they stumble out. They also relentlessly bully each other, but when the chips are really down and someone is TRULY having a hard time, they are capable of expressing surprising amounts of gentleness and consideration. Aside from the scene where Snafu protects Sledge (and you're right, it is incredibly well acted both by Lil' Timmy and Rami Malek) there's many others where someone gently leads a person away, or where they just collectively make up some convenient excuse to get someone away from the front lines to have a break. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I guess it's just a nice contrast and some pretty good acting from these guys.
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Apr 25, 2024 07:48
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Jacob Pitts, who plays Rooster, went from Euro Trip to The Pacific and ended up playing everyone's favorite Tim Gutterson on Justified. Joseph Mazzello also shows up on Justified for a bit as a snake handling preacher.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:24
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Hunterhr posted:Jacob Pitts, who plays Rooster, went from Euro Trip to The Pacific and ended up playing everyone's favorite Tim Gutterson on Justified. Joseph Mazzello also shows up on Justified for a bit as a snake handling preacher. Now it's my turn to be surprised holy poo poo I didn't realize Cooper turned onto Hoosier.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:13
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Jerusalem posted:So episode 3 of The Pacific, Melbourne, The thing that I remember bothering me about this episode was that they wasted an entire episode on something that was completely fabricated whole cloth.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:15
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AFewBricksShy posted:The thing that I remember bothering me about this episode was that they wasted an entire episode on something that was completely fabricated whole cloth. explain this please.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:16
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IIRC Leckie's entire romance plot with Stella was fabricated for the show.
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Apr 25, 2024 17:34
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Well you gotta have romance in a TV-show!
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Apr 25, 2024 18:10
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Tankbuster posted:explain this please. quote:Robert Leckie's book, Helmet For My Pillow, has no accounts of a girl named Stella. However, Leckie does mention someone named Sheila in his memoir, who seems to be the inspiration behind Stella in The Pacific. Like Stella, Sheila had allowed Leckie to stay at her home. However, unlike the show, Leckie's friend, Chuckler, had also accompanied them. According to the book, Leckie did not go through the same grief and heartbreak as his television counterpart because he never had a romantic relationship with Sheila. I don't know if Doc Rowe really had a pretty French nurse that he fell for during Bastogne, but they didn't spend an entire episode on it. I think Leckie was just being a drunk rear end in a top hat and that's why he really got demoted, but I'm not 100% on that. I have Helmet for My Pillow, I'll give it a read this weekend and see if I can find it. AFewBricksShy fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 18:24
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Can't recall off the top of my head but I think in reality the nurse mentioned in BoB was from Africa rather than Belgium. There is a black nurse from Congo in the show but just as a background extra that Roe asks about.
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Apr 25, 2024 18:42
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Her name was Sheila? Or did a he ask an Australian what her name was and the guy said "That Sheila over there?" and he didn't realize that sheila is slang for a woman.
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Apr 25, 2024 18:48
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Arc Hammer posted:Can't recall off the top of my head but I think in reality the nurse mentioned in BoB was from Africa rather than Belgium. Yeah, there was a real nurse there that had some kind of connection to Doc Roe, but she was indeed black and from Africa. As a fun aside, the unit that broke the German siege of Bastogne and rescued the 101st? The 761st Tank Battalion, although it was left out of the show (and IIRC Ambrose's book) for mysterious reasons. I wonder what those could be?  Oh. I do super recommend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's amazingly titled "Brothers In Arms: The Epic Story of the 761St Tank Battalion, WWII's Forgotten Heroes", because holy gently caress those guys put up with some poo poo and got next to no credit for their amazing heroics, again for mysterious reasons. Apparently it's finally being made into a movie, and I sure as gently caress hope it's better than Lucas' poo poo-rear end Red Tails.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:16
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I actually did know about the 761st breaking through. Granted, I learned it from watching Archer Dreamland, but still, that's such a cool historical note that I otherwise wouldn't have known.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:22
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Arc Hammer posted:I actually did know about the 761st breaking through. Granted, I learned it from watching Archer Dreamland, but still, that's such a cool historical note that I otherwise wouldn't have known. Yeah, it's some real loving bullshit that not only were the unit's heroics acknowledged for decades, they were actively suppressed. They had to wait until 1978 for their Presidential Citation, despite being now recognized as one of the best Allied tank units in the war. They fought for something stupid like 185 days straight in Europe, liberated a concentration camp, broke the siege at Bastogne and suffered horrible casualties because turns out Patton, being the racist turbo rear end in a top hat that he was, figured he'd send the Black Panthers to the worst places. (and Patton 100% was a loving turbo racist, even though later history has tried to white wash him, pointing to a speech where he says he doesn't care what colour his soldiers are, as long as they kill Germans. Sounds good, until you hear the less famous comment he made immediately afterwards to his aide still so close to the men of the 761st that they could easily hear him, to the effect of 'I asked for fighting men and they send me {N-words}") Another fun fact: baseball legend Jackie Robinson served in the unit. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 20:32
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Even Patton, who was a southern man so he was racist as gently caress, admitted they fought really well.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:36
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so the source material left them out of the story? lmao.
Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 20:47
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Yeah the 761st was on par with the 70th, which was a very effective independent tank battalion. And unlike the 70th, it hadn't been in continuous combat since Torch.
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Apr 25, 2024 20:49
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Yeah, Jesus Christ I have never even heard of this unit. That actually puts a much meaner twist on,"Nobody in Easy Company ever agreed that they needed rescuing."
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Apr 25, 2024 21:04
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I don't think "We didn't need rescuing" is bad on them, they would say that no matter who got to them. But the military and government at large not giving the 761st their dues is total poo poo.
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Apr 25, 2024 21:17
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The 761st weren’t directly part of the main relief of Bastogne. Per the wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_(United_States) As part of the effort to drive the Germans from the vicinity of Bastogne, the battalion fought to capture the municipality of Tillet [fr], less than 15 km west of the town, in early January 1945.
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Apr 26, 2024 15:11
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vuk83 posted:The 761st weren’t directly part of the main relief of Bastogne. That was just one of the things they did. From their own records from December 19th 1944 to January 1945: quote:Moved with 3d Army thru Maginot Line into Germany between Saarbrucken and Strasbourg; arrived at Offagne. In support of 345th Inf Regt of 87th Div, Rondu and Nimbermont, Belgium were taken (31 Dec). With intense fighting, Tillet was taken. Closed the Marche-Bastogne Road, a supply artery for the enemy (5-9 Jan 45). Working with the 17th Airborne Div in an area North of Bastogne toward Houffalize, cut the road from Liege and Bastogne. Gouvy and Hautbillan fell to the combined assaults of 761st Bn and the paratroopers. Forced enemy back to Watermall, Espeles, and Thommen, and captured the towns. Road from St Vith to Bastogne cut (Dates not given). 29 Jan – In support of 3d Bn 346 Regt, moved thru 82d Airborne Div on the north flank; attacked to the south. In support of 345 Regt, attacked town of Huem (30 Jan). Engaged enemy column near Emmerscheid and again over the German border (31 Jan 45). But I admit it's been a few years since I read Brothers in Arms, so I may be misremembering. Many of those places can feasibly be inside the siege cordon, but it's hard to say because the report is so vague. I should fish out my copy and check. E: Or maybe conflating with four segregated (read: all African American) field artillery units that were directly involved in the Siege of Bastogne by being inside the siege: the 969th Field Artillery Battalion, the 333rd Field Artillery Group, the 333rd Field Artillery Battalion and the 578th Field Artillery Battalion. After they took some horrendous losses in the Siege, "the 333rd, 969th, and other artillery groups were commandeered by the 101st [Airborne Division], and formed a temporary artillery group". Also mysteriously absent. I'm not saying Ambrose and the Easy Company guy are racists or anything. It's just strange that there was a really good and easy opportunity to get some non-white people into the show and bring up units that sure as gently caress had their deeds glossed over, but at every turn they just didn't. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 18:51
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Arc Hammer posted:Now it's my turn to be surprised holy poo poo I didn't realize Cooper turned onto Hoosier. That's what I get shooting from the hip on nicknames. In my defense I just finished Band of Brothers and haven't started my Pacific rewatch. Will be the first time watching it since it came out, so we'll see if I softened in it like others have.
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Apr 26, 2024 22:51
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