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 Jesus loving Christ......
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Feb 3, 2024 00:15
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Cojawfee posted:That could be true. Also, some of the less flattering characterization from BoB was from the people themselves mischaracterizing other people who weren't able to speak for themselves. For instance, Lt. Dike. He was portrayed as being an incompetent buffoon despite having performed several heroic acts that they didn't tell us about. The show has him breaking under pressure and being unable to command the attack on Foy when, in reality, he had a shoulder wound and was messed up from that. Plus you had people like Winters and Lipton who seemed to just not like him, so they didn't care if they got the facts right. I read an interesting interview with an enlisted dude from Easy Company who was field commissioned and became an officer in another company and he said a lot of the stuff in BoB (the book and the movie) was either greatly exaggerated or flat out made up (Speirs running through the German lines in the attack on Foy). He pretty much said there was clique in E Co. and the story was told entirely from their PoV. There was only sentence about him in the whole book and from what I recall it was Winters' opinion that he had watched too many war movies and swore too much. E: His name is Col. Ed Shames. Oasx posted:Why could the bombers we saw take off in the fog, but the other bombers couldn't? It seemed like it screwed up the whole operation. From what I recall from The Bomber Mafia, LeMay drilled the poo poo out of his crews on instrument flying. So his command (the first dummy attack on Regensburg) had the skills to pull it off, but the rest didn't and had to wait. I know it's fashionable to poo poo on Malcolm Gladwell, but I really enjoyed The Bomber Mafia, despite thinking he reached exactly the wrong conclusion from his interesting narrative. I came away from the book with even more respect for LeMay and I'm not sure that was Gladwell's intent at all. Bulky Bartokomous fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 13:09
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joepinetree posted:Pretty sure you got it backwards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Boot I remember in my hayday of 90s flight sims (SWOTL will always be #1 in my heart) reading in PC gamer about dudes that played the Das Boot PC game in real-time. They'd do like 3-day long patrols and take naps during it, so these run times aren't a surprise to me at all.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:15
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Lucasarts games came with amazing books. I still have mine somewhere. Yeah, I adored Finest Hour. Aces of the Pacific was cool, too, even though not Lucasarts.
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Feb 5, 2024 01:37
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I loved the juxtaposition of the tropes of the fate of the ball turret gunner and Curtis. In typical Hollywood war movies, a last bit of desperate grit would've gotten the turret open and they'd have escaped at the last second, and Barry would've made a rough landing and pulled his buddy out of the plane. In real life? Nope, they all die exempt "the coward". I hate the term as much as hate The Last Jedi, but to me this is a competent use of subverting expectations. As far as ditching weight it was standard practice but as stated above each B-17 would've been in different shape depening on things like how badly damaged the engines were, how much extra drag the airframe damage was causing, how much. 50 cal the gunners shot already, how many damaged pieces fell off the plane, how much fuel leaked out from damage to the tanks/lines, etc. First contact was the last time they all had similar fuel loads.
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Feb 5, 2024 18:40
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Eason the Fifth posted:
What’s up OIF I buddy. I was in 2BCT, 3ID. This is all true and then add on top of that the bias of those telling the story. Band of Brothers and Generation Kill both had authors that were pretty tight with certain participants. I’m sure that unconsciously both paint certain leaders in either very flattering or unflattering lights based on that alone. So as a result you get these either super good or super bad leader tropes onscreen.
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Feb 16, 2024 20:16
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In my limited personal experience (OIF I) good leaders were really loving good and hypercompetent in their MOS (especially warrant officers), but bad ones were comically bad and absolutely crushed morale. This was true from squad leaders all the way up to battalion COs. But that said, leadership skill probably falls along a bell curve. Most leaders are just average folks who get things right most of the time, and people don't tend to write books or make movies about them.
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From a few pages ago, regarding inconsistency in German POW camps. Weirdly the services ran camps for their opposition's services. IE, the Luftwaffe generally handled all allied aviation POWs and the Kriegsmarine had a camp for allied sailors they captured. This generally translated to better treatment than Army camps for ground troops, but even they, in general, were treated okay. The still mostly bought into the "knights of the sky" view of aerial combat, at least on the western front. I'm not really sure if they extended that view to Soviet pilots, but could see it going either way.
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Feb 20, 2024 03:22
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God drat, that was a stellar episode of TV.
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Feb 24, 2024 02:52
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My only complaint is that so far they have for the most part not really treated the gunners as people and focused solely on the officers. That might be realistic, though I'm not sure. My grandfather was a gunner on a B-25 in the pacific and he kept in touch with the officers in his crew until he passed away. B-25s had less people too, though. The song might alienate MAGA viewers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsx8nYOrBsk Bulky Bartokomous fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 25, 2024 |
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Feb 25, 2024 02:51
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Open Source Idiom posted:What do you mean by "realistic"? I'm not sure I follow. Yeah, sorry I could have phrased that better. Maybe it is realistic that the officers didn't spend a lot of time with their enlisted crew members outside of the plane. I don't know how strictly fraternization was enforced in the 8th Air Force compared to today.
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Feb 25, 2024 03:26
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Eau de MacGowan posted:i do dislike that the three british men who have had speaking parts have: Dickhead/arrogant commonwealth allies seems to be a common trope in Speilberg/Hanks WW2 projects. See also British tanker in BoB and the rear end in a top hat Aussie dude in The Pacific ("I suspect that's one Yank we don't have to worry about anymore").
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Feb 25, 2024 16:32
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BigglesSWE posted:I do like the more positive interactions between the Americans and the locals, the kids are good at not being teethpullingly annoying, despite being kid actors with British accents. Tommy is cool too; very rare to see that sort of casting in a period piece like this. Isn't there a line in Memphis Belle from a British woman to one of the Americans, something along the lines of, "My father couldn't stand you Yanks. Until you started dying." I always thought that was a great scene. I really need to watch Memphis Belle again.
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Feb 25, 2024 18:10
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soviet elsa posted:Buncha posts about how Saving Private Ryan has no Brits in the immediate vicinity of Omaha, and yet in 16 pages of what would make good shows, not one “Red Army but based on Soviet memoirs, not Enemy at the Gates” If I want to see Russian combat vehicles getting destroyed I just check Twitter.
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Feb 29, 2024 00:08
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Shouldn’t the P-51s have jettisoned their drop tanks as soon as they went into the scrum?
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Mar 1, 2024 16:11
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Just getting caught up on the thread so here's some stray thoughts. First, I think it's easy to not remember having trouble keeping characters straight the first time we watched BoB two decades ago versus having seen it a bunch of times and also actors in it becoming more famous afterwards. Regarding the attitude that Americans won the war by themselves, yeah, sure there are people that think that but also let's not forget about our cultural factory. Of course Hollywood is going to be more interested in making war movies about Americans and those movies are going to be pumped out and around a lot more aggressively than say, a French film about Dien Bien Phu or something. I don't think MOTA is bad by any stetch but except for episode 6 it's not at the same quality level as BoB or The Pacific (which is the best of the three). Yes, Rami Malek stole every single scene he was in. Him letting Sledge sleep on the train kills me. That said, James Badge Dale's performance is underrated. Speaking of underrated, Charlie from Girls was incredible in the criminally underrated George Clooney produced Catch-22 series.
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Mar 7, 2024 13:49
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Mister Bates posted:I am almost positive that half-assed poo poo was included solely to head off criticism of the show having an all-white cast, and without the show's creators really caring about the black aviators' stories at all otherwise This is what I think happened too but wouldn't go as far to say they didn't care. Just trying to shoehorn another storyline into an already bizarre narrative that didn't really have the space for it.
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Mar 13, 2024 03:45
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Sorry if I a 12 year old bayonets my friend I’m going full Anakin and gonna murder some younglings. gently caress those kids.
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Mar 16, 2024 01:33
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a dingus posted:I've never heard this before. Is there any evidence for it or is this just goon stupids? Goons LOVE communism, comrade!
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Mar 20, 2024 11:00
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joepinetree posted:Jesus Christ this is getting really loving stupid. "The way I define efficiency..." get over yourself. Sorry you're mad that people aren't agreeing that Russia was "by far the most organized and effective Army in the world" because, despite trying to move the goalposts, that was the original claim. Maybe don't want watch American produced shows about American units if you're so offended by failure to capture the glory of the Red Army?
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Mar 22, 2024 11:39
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It's like when military movies have embarrassingly bad uniform mistakes that most privates in basic training could've corrected. You could probably find someone to check them for free. Then people always trot out the stupid urban legend that "you have to have one mistake in the uniform or it's illegal."
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Mar 23, 2024 18:09
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The Doolittle Raid was the equivalent of Rocky opening up a cut on Drago.
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Apr 4, 2024 17:50
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Also, there were a lot of BS stories about German atrocities in WWI (babies on helmet spikes lol) so that probably added to skepticism.
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Apr 15, 2024 19:45
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EvilBlackRailgun posted:Yeah it’s pretty well known that anyone who experienced real combat doesn’t like to talk about it. It’s traumatic My grandfather was a gunner on a B-25 in the pacific and the only story he ever told me about the war was how one night they were driving a jeep down the jungle road in New Guinea that was normally clear but they were blacked out and they ran over a big log that almost knocked a few guys out of the jeep. They next day driving back they discovered it had actually been a python.
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Apr 18, 2024 03:15
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:I've been watching more of The Pacific and Leckie's kind of a pretentious little tit, isn't he? At times, yes, but I liked him more and more every time I watched the series. He is a really well rounded character, as written and as acted. The Pacific lets you see even the "good" main characters be dickheads, in a way BoB does not.
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Apr 22, 2024 12:55
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:A great post. I will never forget how viscerally they succeeded in making the audience feel the thirst of the Marines on Pelilue when they were fighting for an extended period of time with no water. And yeah, love the scene where Snafu protects Sledge from crossing that line. The way Sledge zombie-style repeats "Jap germs" while his mind is computing this new information and the tension on Snafu's face while he waits to see if his story worked is just a flawless scene. There are some scenes from that series that really stuck with me and really hit me in the feels. Spoilered in case people are inspired to watch it for the first time (and they should!) 1. When everyone gets up to salute CPT Haldane's corpse as it comes back down the hill and then Gunny Haney's mind breaks and they have to usher him away. 2. Basilone's widow visits his family, my God, once the emotional glass breaks. And then at the end you see she never remarried. 3. Sledge breaks down while dove hunting. For real, little Timmy Murphy from Jurassic Park was sensational in this series. 4. Sledge's interaction with the mortally wounded woman he mortared on Okinawa. When this episode aired I think I just at the turned off TV screen for a good 5 minutes after the credits finished. 5. Snafu lets Sledge sleep peacefully instead of saying goodbye. This scene wrecks me every time I see it Bonus  one - Leckie asks out Vera.
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Apr 25, 2024 01:57
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