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ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Doesn't why we fight also have a scene where german prisoners are executed as the americans drive by? I've always wondered about that one because in the truck they just kind of shrug it off.

why we fight is an episode i think i've only ever watched once because as you say it's a really tough watch

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ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Jerusalem posted:

Yep, I had actually forgotten because there is a LOT going on. I'm not sure which troops it is doing the execution, I don't think they were American but from memory they just haul a couple of soldiers out of their post and unceremoniously shoot them in the head, and the Americans are a little surprised but also too exhausted to really pay it much more mind than that. It certainly doesn't stand out in their memories like the Speirs story, which I think might have been part of the point of showing it in this episode?

yeah iirc it isn't americans that did it. the americans shrug it off, and then it immediately gets forgotten because goddamn they find the camp

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Orange Devil posted:

Curiously the communists, including in Germany, were very much not capable of doing or letting poo poo like that happen.

I was under the impression that soviet russia post wwii was incredibly anti semetic, though I'm happy to be corrected on that

Or is this just like a tankie joke communists are never bad guys kind of thing

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

McNally posted:

The German populace was far more complicit in the war crimes of the Nazi government than popularly believed.

The key to hang onto is the scene in Band of Brothers where Webster angrily asks the German baker "are you going to tell me that you never smelt the loving stench?"

They didn't not know. They didn't want to know.

I know I'm painting with a wide brush here but, like the post above me says, maybe it's ok to not humanize them right now.

edit: Post above the post above me, now.

I've always wondered about stuff like this, what can the baker/a hypothetical German do? Was making a run for the border and trying to defect a viable option at any point?

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Arc Hammer posted:

Watch the Deep Space Nine episode "Duet" which explores that very question in a fictional context. Spoilers: the character in the episode worked at a death camp and was so horrified by the atrocities and his own cowardice that he disguises himself as the camp operator in an attempt to force his homeworld to admit to their complicity in genocide by goading the camp sirvivors into publicly executing him for war crimes.

When you're away from the slaughter, out of sight, out of mind, it's easier to rationalize away your own inaction. What can you do? You push it aside and go about your life, for one reason or another. Or you could do something about it and face those consequences for standing up. Or you could leave, but what then?

This doesn't feel like it's answered the question but I'll read it again when I'm not falling asleep

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

McNally posted:

The German populace was far more complicit in the war crimes of the Nazi government than popularly believed.

The key to hang onto is the scene in Band of Brothers where Webster angrily asks the German baker "are you going to tell me that you never smelt the loving stench?"

They didn't not know. They didn't want to know.

I know I'm painting with a wide brush here but, like the post above me says, maybe it's ok to not humanize them right now.

edit: Post above the post above me, now.

i guess this is kind of where my question came from. Like even if he was opposed to what was going on it doesn't seem like franz bakenbauer could actually much about it that isn't like.... try and poison some local nazis, which might work once and hopefully wouldn't result in the death of everyone in his family?

ilmucche fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Apr 15, 2024

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Orange Devil posted:

They never once, other than this one single protest, even try to protest against the Nazi government. So don't loving sit here and try to lecture about all the bad things that surely would have happened to them if they had protested. Because they didn't. And the one single time they did, they got everything they protested for with no repercussions.

Now think about why they didn't protest.


Edit:

and lol at using the White Rose as an example excusing the Germans here. Literally the only organised resistance to the Nazis for their entire reign outside of what communists remained after the purges. Again, think about why, outside of the communists, who were the first sent to the camps, there was so little resistance.

Just so I understand, you're saying that the people who organised resistance to the Nazis were the first to get sent to the camps, but there was no reason for anyone to expect consequences if they organised resistance to the nazis

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

KingaSlipek posted:

While this person is mentally unwell, it is important to specifically correct this:
national socialism (better: Nationaler Sozialismus) already existed decades before Hitler was born, but the rhetoric that we´ve come to know and associate with it we already find in the programm of the Czechoslovak German minority party DAP (founded in 1904), later renamed to DNSAP in May 1918, obviously preceding any "communist revolution in Germany". Rudolf Jung, representing those parties in parliament, was, in the literal sense of the word, Proto-Hitler and heavily influenced early Reichsnazis and their programm.

I think that poster just really hates america and really loves communism

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ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

In training???

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