|
George H.W. oval office posted:Has anyone read the source material book this is based on? The show just feels so disjointed and quick. Just catching up in this thread and wanted to reply to this. Apologies for those that may have responded, I haven't watched Ep 3 yet so I stopped reading the thread once the responses to that episode came in and won't be able to catch up til i watch eps 3 and 4 back to back this weekend. Anyways, yeah, I've listened to the audio book. I think it's good and is very interesting, especially if you have no knowledge of the bombing campaign in Europe. There are some harrowing stories in it that are chock full of interesting/horrifying detail, some of which are most definitely going to be in the series I'm sure. While I enjoyed it, I also thought it was quite disjointed jumping between various subjects, especially as it went on. It's a long read/listen (the audio book is like 25 hours or so) and I got kind of fatigued by the end. Given how the book could be a bit all over the place, I will not be surprised if the series winds up like that. I'm really look forward to it as plays on though. The air war is one of my favorite subjects within WW2. Speaking of WW2 books, since some of you in here may be watching the show and wanting some good WW2 reading material- as someone who has read/listened to A LOT of WW2 stuff, I can easily say the best I've ever read would be Ian W. Toll's "The Pacific War" trilogy of books. The first is Pacific Crucible, 1941-42 (takes place from Pearl Harbor to Battle of Midway). The second is The Conquering Tide 1942-44 (Guadalcanal through Battle of the Philippine Sea. The final one, which came out in 2020 I think, is Twilight of the Gods 1944-1945. This is late 1944 through the surrender of Japan. I've listened to them on audiobook, and also purchased the trilogy in book form and re-read after listening to all of them because it's that good- in particular the first two books. Given the length of each, that's a high compliment. The way the complicated narratives of events/campaigns, key characters, politics, and technical info is woven to tell a cohesive, page turner of a story on the Pacific War (with other elements of WW2 discussed as well, when pertinent) is some kind of achievement. I would LOVE if Toll eventually turned his attention to the European Theater and tackled that in a similar manner, though it took a decade for the entirety of Pacific Trilogy to be released and I can only imagine the research that went into beforehand, so I'm sure that would be a daunting project. Anyways, yeah. Pacific Trilogy is amazing.
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2024 21:46
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 12, 2024 11:50 |
|
|
Phenotype posted:So what was the big deal with the Norden bombsight? I was watching the third episode again while I was doing chores, and the bombardier even made a big thing about it when they were lightening the plane, he was all pissed they had to throw his baby overboard. I can't tell what it's actually doing, though. I mean, okay, the guy seems to be lining up his little target on the buildings below, but how that all relates to a bunch of bombs falling haphazardly out of the doors I don't understand. The bombsight was a highly secretive development as well that that was thought to give American bombers a huge advantage, so there was a big deal about not letting it fall into enemy hands.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2024 16:06
|
|
|
Yeah, I think the Pacific really would’ve benefitted from just sticking with one the books/stories/campaigns versus trying to weave in several and jumping around. As is though, the Sledge story worked better because you do at least get to see him somewhat in the earlier episodes.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2024 23:24
|
|
|
I feel like the story of Guadalcanal and the campaign around it could easily carry a full series. I’d imagine at some point in the future it will get one. I think The Pacific did an ok job showing the start of it and some of the marine side, but it kind of glossed over the real importance of it IMO and missed some of the the big beats…well, basically all of the naval ones. Which I understand as that wasn’t the story they were trying to tell, but still. The major slugfests the US Navy had with the IJN over the few months of the campaign are pretty loving crazy, and it’s really the coming of age story for the USN. It’s one of the only times that US and Japanese battleships directly fought each other and pretty much every engagement in iron bottom sound was a barroom brawl (the pacific shows a smidge of the first skirmish where the US got its rear end handed to it), plus there were major carrier duels and submarine exploits. It was wild and at some point that will definitely hit more of the big screen. It’s only the last few years I’ve really learned a good deal about it. The book Neptune’s Inferno is an amazing read. ColonelJohnMatrix fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Feb 13, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2024 01:15
|
|
|
The absolute insanity of the surface battles around Guadalcanal will absolutely make it to the screen one day (I know that a smidge of the battle of Savo Island was seen in the Pacific, but still). Neptune's Inferno was a crazy read.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2024 04:00
|
|
|
The Greyhound bits where the u-boat crew was taunting was pretty ridiculous. Doing that kind of thing would be drat near suicidal and it's weird they put that kind of hollywood nonsense into it. They did paint the side of U-boats sometimes though, so that part is fine. I agree that surface warfare between naval ships would be tricky to get right on film, but that's why the Guadalcanal stuff in Iron Bottom Sound would seem to be tailor made for it as a lot of it was close range wild poo poo with a melee of ships firing pretty much into each other's faces. Albeit at night though, which would make it harder to show. I am shocked that the USS Johnston / Taffy 3 story hasn't been done on film yet.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2024 16:18
|
|
|
Yeah I actually enjoyed the Midway movie. They had a lot of stuff to fit in and for the most part I thought it turned out good.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2024 20:33
|
|
|
Got to watch the ep last night and I think it was definitely the best of the series. That was some powerful stuff. At the end of it, my wife turned to me and said "Why did they do this? When did they start winning?". I remember when reading the book, it was during this portion where it sort of felt like I was being hit over the head every time I cracked it open because it was just brutal mission recap on top of brutal mission recap. It was a hard read because of how dark the subject matter was, and I think the show is doing a good job of bringing that to reality. It'll be interesting to see how they wrap this series up as we def are about to have some time jumping.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2024 15:32
|
|
|
Broadlybrowsing posted:I started watching Rogue Heroes because of this thread and I really enjoyed it. Wildly different in tone, complete with anachronistic needle drops, but a super fun watch. I think the show has done a pretty good job of showing the yin/yang part of a bomber crew's life to where it was warm bed and good accommodations at the beginning and end of the day mixed with abject terror and horrific conditions during the middle of it. That kind of duality and suddenness had to be a hell of a hard thing to manage.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2024 14:58
|
|
|
D-Pad posted:I'm reading Neptune's Inferno after a rewatch of The Pacific and seeing it mentioned in this thread. I know I have the benefit of hindsight and a book giving the actual tactical picture that they didn't always have at the time but goddamn I am getting mad reading about some of the stupid decisions these admirals are making. Neptune's Inferno really is an amazing read. I remember when I was first learning more about the Pacific I really was under the idea that after the battle of Midway the Japanese Navy was basically defeated, and so reading Neptune's Inferno I was totally floored. I had no real knowledge of the carrier duels or loving close quarters capital ship fighting that took place around the Solomons. It's a commitment, but the best anything I've ever read on the Pacific War is Ian Toll's recent trilogy of books on them. I went on a longer spiel about it earlier in the thread so I won't do that again but it's a modern series and seems pretty drat definitive on the overall Pacific campaign. It does a fantastic job of weaving the human story with the tactical/strategic stuff, what it was like on the various home fronts, geopolitics, and gets into the various weapons of war/technology as well. Book 1 (Pacific Crucible) is basically the lead up to Pearl Harbor through Midway, Book 2 (The Conquering Tide) is Guadalcanal through Saipan/Battle of the Philippine Sea, and Book 3 (Twilight of the Gods) is late 1944 through the end of the war.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2024 15:10
|
|
|
Stegosnaurlax posted:They didn't have much of a choice, every dive bomber that was designed after the war started was a huge loving disaster (I'm looking at you, Helldiver). They tunred the B-25 into a strafing bus with more guns than a Kentucky State Fair I went to the Oshkosh air show a few years ago when I worked for a company that was in the aircraft industry (it was an AMAZING experience), and I got to see a flyable B-25 that was on display that a crew had flown to the show. It was all blue in Marine dress. There were SO MANY GUNS. It was loving crazy. Googled it and pretty sure that this was indeed the plane I saw - https://devildogsquadron.com/ PS if you ever a chance to go EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, WI for whatever reason, go.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2024 14:21
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:It's extremely difficult to get a hotel reservation anywhere near Oshkosh because you have to book them literally the day the rooms become available. I was lucky that when I went, the company I was working for had a long standing relationship with some couple that rented out their house to them the week of the show and apparently had been doing it for awhile. I remember just standing outside the house in the evening and what was going on overhead just insanity. It was also cool eating dinner on lake Winnebago one of the evenings because the docks all had float planes EVERYWHERE. I was there for 2 days if I remember correctly and spent the majority of the time with my mouth hanging open at all the cool poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2024 15:28
|
|
|
I'm not sure if there is a WW2 thread or not but if there is I'd love the link! I am excited to rewatch both the Pacific and BOB after this. Others have said it here, but this show very clearly suffers from development hell shenanigans. I don't dislike like it to the point that some do, but I also agree it could've been much better with a more cohesive narrative.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2024 15:45
|
|
|
After having a quick look at that thread, I can say I much prefer this one acting a thinly veiled WW2 discussion around the show, so keep it up here!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2024 16:43
|
|
|
The book itself is kinda messy as its more of a history of the bombing campaign versus a cohesive story narrative, and then you have the development hell issues of the show on top of it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2024 20:30
|
|
|
Is there a definitive-type eastern front book/series? I was riveted when Dan Carlin put out the Ghosts of the Ostfront hardcore history series around 15 years ago and would like to do some more reading on it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2024 02:24
|
|
|
I love the BOB reviews, they are well done. Please keep it up and do the Pacific next! I am a little over halfway through Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors and holy poo poo what a great read! I know the story of Taffy 3 as other books I've read have covered it. Ian Toll covered it fairly well in his series- that's why I waited so long to read this. I figured I knew the story. So many fantastic details in this and it reads like an action thriller. ColonelJohnMatrix fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Mar 28, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2024 21:30
|
|
|
Yeah, I enjoyed Midway. They put a lot of stuff into the movie (Pearl Harbor, the Doolittle raid) but it all makes sense in trying to tell the story. On the whole it was decent.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
Solaris 2.0 posted:Midway is a very stupid movie but its depiction of the actual battle is not far off - if you can get over the very cringe one liners "This one's for Pearl" etc. I read Shattered Sword a couple years ago and it’s a great read, but it goes into a super detailed account of everything so it’s more recommended if you are REALLY into it. Craig L Symunds book on Midway is very good and is a bit of an easier read, even if not quite as detailed.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2024 23:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 12, 2024 11:50 |
|
|
I recently (well, like 2 years ago) read the crazy long Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer (the audiobook, which is an insane 50ish hours long if I remember right) and while there is A LOT to take in, one of the things I remembered most vividly from going through it is just how much that big German business was TOTALLY loving cool with the Nazi party and supported them. As for the German people at large, when I was younger I gave them more of a benefit of the doubt- they were subjects of an evil regime and had also been through some wild poo poo post-WW1, so maybe they were kind of just victims versus a majority playing an active part. As I've gotten older and (sadly) seen a rise in nationalism/extremism and see how easy it is for various groups of people to be vilified and just how many people are actually totally cool with it....I'd assume a good portion of the population either agreed with the Nazi way of doing things or at the very least didn't necessarily disagree with a lot it. As long as it was happening to "those people" (whatever group a person may of disliked, for whatever reason), it was probably ok. As someone who has always been fascinated with the interwar time period and done a good bit of reading/studying on it in regards to how the world went kinda batshit crazy, it's pretty scary seeing a lot of political rhetoric going on today that harkens back to it.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2024 18:36
|
|