|
Cythereal posted:On the Power of Solitude I... am friends with a couple neurodivergent women that have had that exact issue. Twas so bad that they thought that was how friendship was supposed to work. Needless to say unraveling that in the following days was a journey and a half that helped the both of us grow tremendously. I genuinely hope that you either have now or will find friendships that treat you fairly. To not make this post too narrow, I'd like to echo idonotlikepeas mention of Alpha Protocol. Sometimes antagonizing some characters instead of befriending them is more helpful to your goal. It is exceedingly rare in rpgs in general, as often it's just a barrier to content if you don't befriend npcs.
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 01:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 02:06 |
|
|
God I miss Alpha Protocol.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 02:10
|
|
|
RevolverDivider posted:God I miss Alpha Protocol. It just came available on GOG in the last couple of weeks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 13:03
|
|
|
Drakenel posted:I... am friends with a couple neurodivergent women that have had that exact issue. Twas so bad that they thought that was how friendship was supposed to work. Needless to say unraveling that in the following days was a journey and a half that helped the both of us grow tremendously. I genuinely hope that you either have now or will find friendships that treat you fairly. I manage okay in real life, thanks.  I only brought up my personal history to preface why I rate this part of Wrath's writing so highly. I personally simply do not get video game protagonists who are all-loving and friends with everyone, and it almost always rubs me the wrong way when I feel forced to be intimate friends with everyone in a game. When a game lets me, through a protagonist I feel like the game wants me to identify with, set and keep boundaries with people, without villifying me for it, that is something very rare that I treasure in a game's writing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 13:04
|
|
|
I like being friend with everyone in the party, except one specific Lawful Evil companion whose gimmick I just cannot stand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 13:13
|
|
|
I too am neurodivergent and wish Cythreal all the best. And i appreciate the power of friendship, especially in this game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 13:14
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I manage okay in real life, thanks. Glad to hear. I'm cursed with that darn empathy thing, so I worry for strangers. That is something that upon reflection I notice in not just games but a lot of media. The setting of boundaries is often seen as a rude or anti-social thing. I'm not certain why that is, but perhaps that bit of maturity in communication is not as common as it should be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 13:49
|
|
|
Drakenel posted:That is something that upon reflection I notice in not just games but a lot of media. The setting of boundaries is often seen as a rude or anti-social thing. I'm not certain why that is, but perhaps that bit of maturity in communication is not as common as it should be. I dunno. I hesitate to extrapolate too much, especially since I've never been clinically diagnosed as neurodivergent - just a hell of a lot of people in my life, including a few who have been clinically diagnosed as autistic, telling me that I sure seem to match the criteria, but something I've been realizing over the last few years is that sometimes, when people go "Bruh did we even play the same game?" the answer genuinely is, to some degree, no. When your brain makes connections so differently from how the majority of people seem to, what seems clear and obvious and inescapable to you may seem weird and extreme, even willfully contrarian and obtuse, to others. Vice versa as well. Beyond just differences of opinion and different tastes, there's a degree to which people legitimately do experience the world differently. I'm not especially conversant in the language of disability and divergence, I just wanted to highlight this part of Wrath's writing that I found particularly meaningful to me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 14:24
|
|
|
I think another reason games are like this is that gamers are hungry for content and games tend to encourage (and, to a degree, exploit) that hunger. Being friends with someone means you get access to their innermost thoughts, their problems, their personal histories, etc. You get more content, and you don't generally get any more content if you choose not to be friends with them. Many (probably most) players will choose to become friends, and the developers of games will tend to react to that - in general, there's not enough effort available when developing a game to do all the things you want to do, and the things that are going to get cut first are the things that fewer people are interested in or care about. It's a kind of feedback cycle, really; you get encouraged to be friends, so more people become friends, so being friendly is the more common path and gets more resources devoted to it. RPGs can sometimes break out of this because of the concept of roleplaying itself; the desire to be a person other than the one you actually are. In real life, almost everyone would be friends with Seelah. But maybe while playing the game, you want to pretend to be the worst sort of person imaginable. Just an irredeemable, worthless, unpleasant, nasty degenerate. You know, the sort of person that wouldn't be friends with Seelah. In that case, the game giving you some kind of content for not being her friend is validating your choice to play a character that's pond scum, and having reactivity to that is going to be valuable to the people who choose to play that way. Even so, you'll find that evil paths do tend to get less attention, just because fewer people play them in general, and marking all the "don't be friends" options as part of the evil path is a trap in itself (as I mentioned earlier, not being friends tends to lead to bad endings). There isn't room for infinite variation here, though, until someone invents a way to give developers infinite time to build a game, so people with less common fantasies for games will tend to find fewer things catering to them. (Although, thankfully, there are so many more games than there used to be that there are generally going to be a few options out there, at least.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 15:00
|
|
|
Well, no pressure either way. A diagnosis can be a burden too when it comes to some doctors. Once its on your file (at least in America) you might have trouble getting them to listen to other concerns or issues without them putting it under the same umbrella. Anyway, I shouldn't be filling up the thread with such a personal topic. I'll cut it out. It is nice the game lets you make your own way and with your own friends without trying to make you feel too bad about it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 15:32
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:RPGs can sometimes break out of this because of the concept of roleplaying itself; the desire to be a person other than the one you actually are. In real life, almost everyone would be friends with Seelah. But maybe while playing the game, you want to pretend to be the worst sort of person imaginable. Just an irredeemable, worthless, unpleasant, nasty degenerate. You know, the sort of person that wouldn't be friends with Seelah. In that case, the game giving you some kind of content for not being her friend is validating your choice to play a character that's pond scum, and having reactivity to that is going to be valuable to the people who choose to play that way. Rogue AI Goddess fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 8, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2024 16:56
|
|
|
Real life has been kicking my rear end this week, so I'll try to do a bonus update today or tomorrow with a regular update this weekend.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 19:30
|
|
|
Take as long as you need. Good luck with your life challenges.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 20:04
|
|
|
Life is taking swings left and right lately. Take care of yourself. We'll be patient.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2024 22:20
|
|
|
Path of the Righteous, Take One A bit different from normal today, I'd actually meant to do this back with the change of chapter but I felt like establishing what was happening was important, and then one thing lead to another. Wrath may not be written by Obsidian, but it has a fair few twists and turns. So I feel like it's worth reviewing what's happened so far and what we know - and what we don't know.  Wrath is centered on the story of Yua, a kitsune bard whose traditional style of singing among her people has proven an acquired taste in these parts. While her exact background remains vague - in large part so that the player can imagine whatever character concept they want - we do know that she was attacked by demons outside of Kenabres, the fortress city on the edge of the Worldwound, and left with a gruesome chest wound.  She wasn't attacked by just any demons, though, she was in the tender care of the arch-warlock Areelu Voresh, the once human woman who created the Worldwound. We know little of Voresh's motives at this time, but the one account we have of what she was like before the Worldwound was that she was an arcane spellcaster in a nation where arcane magic was illegal, and had been imprisoned before the Worldwound's creation. For reasons unknown, Voresh and her lieutenants disguised themselves as crusaders and brought Yua into Kenabres shortly before the demon lord Deskari attacked the city. quote:
One thing that is clear is that this wound Yua bears is no ordinary injury. Healing the wound proved beyond the powers of both a prelate of Iomedae and a storied silver dragon.  Yua's wound has a strange habit of opening and closing itself during moments of extreme stress - and when Yua is exposed to powerful energies. Sometimes the wound weeps blood, sometimes radiant light. Yua's wound seems to interact with powerful sources of magic she encounters, seemingly binding traces of these encounters into Yua herself.  These energies have included a powerful demonic rage, an intuitive talent for mischief, the righteous light of angels, the otherworldly calculation of an aeon, and the dream-like vision of Elysium. When Yua interacted with the Wardstone at the heart of Kenabres, this strange power suffused her and flowed into her close companions, sharing a remarkable energy that elevates them beyond the merely mortal.  Reactions to Yua's power have been mixed. Many see her remarkable abilities as a blessing, even a divine miracle. Others have been wary, suspicious of this power that has to date been without explanation. Ascribing it to providence and divine intervention is enough for some, but not all. And some have been downright jealous of this random upstart coming in and winning victories where no victory was believed to be possible - or worse, winning what others thought would be their victory.  Yua's first companion, Seelah, is as cheerful and dedicated to fighting the good fight as they come, but it must be said that her life has left her with some blind spots. Seelah's life has been a bumpy ride, but everything's worked out pretty well for her so far. Yet it has also recently become apparent that Seelah has struggled to understand what those not as fortunate in their lives as she has been have faced. Seelah puts on a brave and cheerful face, but recent events have threatened to put a distinct damper on her mood.  Camellia is legitimately unhinged, there is something profoundly wrong with this young woman that has left her with urges to rape, torture, slaughter, and eat people. Urges that she is rarely shy about indulging, as Camellia is legitimately a shaman who speaks to spirits, but those spirits are of a distinctly unwholesome variety. For now, the war against the Worldwound has afforded Camellia considerable opportunity to satisfy her appetites, but it may only be a matter of time until her urges can no longer be overlooked.  Lann is a descendant of the survivors of the First Crusade, who retreated underground and were twisted by the powers of the Abyss into becoming patchwork beings known as mongrels. Lann was born on the surface to a human mother but brought down to the darkness with his father's people, and has a deep conviction that he will lead his people to their rightful glory. Lann's certainty, though, has taken some bad knocks since crossing paths with Yua: it was this strange kitsune who rediscovered the power of angels sleeping in the caverns rather than him, Lann's best friend (and implied girlfriend) turned out to be a demonic cultist, and his recent attempt at asking Yua out on a date got shot down hard. Moreover, Lann is in his mid-20s and mongrels rarely live to their 40th birthday. Even as a half-mongrel, Lann must be keenly aware that time is running out for destiny.  What Woljiff is doing here is an excellent question that no one has an answer for, least of all Woljiff himself. A part-demon gangster from the streets of Kenabres, Woljiff is a man who to date has been completely devoid of principles and ethics, not malicious but very accustomed to looking out for number one, no matter who he has to lie to in order to get what he wants. For now, Woljiff seems satisfied to have stolen back an heirloom given to his mother by his demonic ancestor, but keeping artifacts of the Abyss rarely works out well for anyone. What the crusade, and the Moon of the Abyss, hold for Woljiff remains to be seen.  An orphaned teenage (equivalent, she is an elf) urchin from the streets is an unlikely place to find a saint, but that's precisely what Ember is, an enigmatic waif guided by a talking raven on a mission that no one as yet seems to understand, not even Ember herself. Ember is perhaps the purest soul that Yua has ever met, but her own story has yet to begin unfolding.  Brilliant? Maybe. Insane? Quite possibly. A danger to herself and everyone around her? Most definitely. Nenio is an eccentric wandering scholar who enlisted Yua as an assistant to her research into whatever catches her fancy at the moment - presently, mysterious masked figures and ruins full of puzzles that dot the Worldwound. Whether Nenio is cognizant that she has a research assistant, or even knows her name, is anybody's guess.  A kind young man whose entire circle of friends was killed by the cults of the Abyss, Sosiel is an odd man to find in this war. Sosiel fights for the better things in life, the hope that there is meaning beyond bloodshed and violence, but has also found a distinctly uncomfortable mirror in the Worldwound: for a man devoted to a goddess of peace, Sosiel has a violent temper he works very hard to restrain. Sosiel's resolve and hope have already been tested once, and no doubt will again.  Katarina Turan is a Desnan adept, and a powerful sorceress with far too convoluted a backstory to get into here. She chiefly sees to the safety of Desna's followers in the crusade, given the thread of half-cocked inquisitors running around.  Also there's this rear end in a top hat.  Arrayed against Yua and her allies are the forces of the Worldwound, a vortex between Golarion and the Abyss. The greatest threat seen to date is Deskari, the Lord of Locusts: a demon lord with power that borders on the divine. After his initial attack on Kenabres, though, Deskari beat a quick retreat back into the Worldwound, entrusting his armies and those of his ally Baphomet, Lord of Minotaurs, to wage the war.  Minagho is the commander of Baphomet's armies, and the primary field commander of the demonic host. She has been having a rather bad war ever since she decided to torment Yua rather than kill her when she had the chance - a moment of overconfidence that hasn't yet proven fatal but not for lack of trying. While tenacious, clever, and powerful, Minagho has begun to show herself to be out of her depth in the rapidly escalating Fifth Crusade, repeatedly taken off guard by Yua's growing supernatural powers and her astonishing ability to manipulate cosmic energies. The rules of war are changing, and Minagho's chances to learn and adapt are running out.  Minagho's champion may well welcome the day, though. Staunton Vhane is a dwarven [fallen] paladin responsible for the greatest catastrophe in the history of the Crusades, when Minagho persuaded him to remove the primary defense of the great citadel of Drezen on a bid to invade the heart of the Worldwound and end the war as the greatest hero in the land. Instead, Vhane's vainglory lead to utter disaster and the loss of enormous life, and his relegation to a penal force considered to be the lowest of the low by crusaders. Vhane's reckless pride and arrogance ultimately lead him to side with Minagho in the twilight hour at Kenabres, saving her life and fleeing the city. A reckoning between Vhane and Yua, the man who thought he would be the great hero who won the war, and the woman winning battle after unlikely battle, is coming due.  On the orders of Queen Galfrey of Mendev, Yua has been granted field command of the Fifth Crusade with orders to reclaim the fortress city of Drezen. The road to get there has been hard, and will get harder.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 00:52
|
|
"I do not know yet, and that troubles me. I am not entirely sure what the demons did to you. This wound is no ordinary injury, and it was inflicted by no ordinary weapon. I have rid you of your pain and restored your strength, but only time will allow you to heal fully."
|
... We get mid-season re-cap episodes? Already?! Man, wonder what the animation-department blew the budget on this time?  Seriously, though, it's actually a really good idea, since the story ... sprawls. Especially if you talk to everyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 08:10
|
|
|
TLM3101 posted:... We get mid-season re-cap episodes? Already?! Man, wonder what the animation-department blew the budget on this time? Agreed. I have a photographic long term memory and can keep track of the important bits, but not everyone is equally blessed. Let's not forget to mention our rejected party member Wendaug. I hoped she was appealing somehow, but considering she's ultimately loyal to herself over the player and doesn't turn nice even if you make friends with her... I don't blame Cythreal for leaving her behind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 08:16
|
|
|
TLM3101 posted:Seriously, though, it's actually a really good idea, since the story ... sprawls. Especially if you talk to everyone. Yeah, this is why I said I'd wanted to do this anyway (and the bulk of my real life stuff is just an annual event at work that's always a godawful mess and leaves me wanting to do little when I get home but veg out). In particular I wanted to go over the wound and Yua's arrival, and recapping Staunton's story - it's easy to forget that he wasn't seduced by Minagho in a primarily sexual sense, it was his pride and ambition that she preyed on. You could probably make an interesting analysis of the game in the light of 'all the people who think they're the main character of this story and get mad when they realize that might not be the case,' and I very well might do so down the line.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 12:27
|
|
|
I mean, feel free. Most of us that read do enjoy the analysis you do. And add me to the ranks of people that find so much going on that its a little hard to keep track of sometimes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 12:31
|
|
|
Yeah, there's just a few more characters I want the LP to meet before I think such an analysis would be appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 13:36
|
|
|
It's probably a shorter list of people who don't think they're the main character. Ember, Woljiff... maybe Sosiel?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 14:15
|
|
|
Digging Deeper The week hasn't rolled over yet in-game, but it's become clear to me that the crusade army needs to get stronger so I go ahead and recruit this week's worth of footmen for the army.  While advancing, a random event pops up to give more money and some dwarven troopers I can't fit into my army at the moment.   Unusual crusade battle here, a gaggle of elementals.  One nice perk if you take long breaks between sessions, when the loading screens talk about companions, they do update for the status of the character's sidequest.  Today we're visiting Chilly Creek. Jernaugh, a novice priest of Erastil, told Yua about this place back in Defender's Heart as his new pastoral assignment and invited Yua to come visit.   "I could be mistaken, but it looked like you were frightened by my arrival." "Oh, no, you startled me, that's all. It's my overactive imagination. I still can't get used to living in such a small village. The town where I grew up was a good deal larger, and it was located near a trade route, so there were always lots of new faces, and plenty of people bustling around. Here, though, it's different. The moment you step outside the village, you're all alone. You can walk for miles in any direction with only the birds and animals for company. This is, of course, the way Erastil teaches us to live. But truth be told, it still makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable." "Why were you looking at those trees?" "See for yourself." (He points to one of the branches, and among the leaves, you notice a small doll made of grass and seaweed, tied with blue ribbon.) "I keep finding them here in the grove I think it's some kind of local ritual. I've asked the villagers to tell me what it means, but they won't give me an answer. I just don't understand the reason for all this secrecy." "Well then, would you show me around the village?"Part of the delay in updates has just been work being a nightmare, I work in an administrative office job and there's an event that happens here every year that dumps 2-3 months of work on my desk in two days, and it's been compounded by a variety of other factors. Just looking at the spreadsheet I use to take notes for this LP made me tired after being glued to spreadsheets all week at work.  "Don't be offended if they start gawking at you. In this remote village people have never seen a foxkin. Come to think of it, people have never seen your kin where I grew up either, and I bet that even in Kenabres you'd seem exotic to many. But I have already explained everything to the locals as best I could, so they shouldn't stare too openly or ask silly questions."But part of the delay has also been dealing with my mental health, specifically the fact that I'm either neurodivergent or at least display many of the symptoms and behaviors of such. Something I'm only now, in my mid-30s, beginning to understand and contextualize is the implications of what it means to say that your brain makes different connections, sees different patterns, than most people. Beyond simply having different tastes and beliefs and opinions, there comes a point where you genuinely don't experience the same things - fictional games and movies or real life things alike - that other people do, and it's given me some food for thought on how I interact with communities and my own experiences.  I think my tendency to be prickly and argumentative needs no introduction to regular readers of my LPs, but it's an interesting point to how I do things. Or at least something to be more aware of moving forward, that many times what feels obvious and clear and self-evident to me strikes many people as extreme and weird if not willfully perverse, and vice versa, and it's due at least in significant part to our minds genuinely working differently. Not better or worse, not right or wrong, just different by whatever it is that causes such things.  This is a hydra. It starts off half-dead when combat begins and loses HP from there.   "So let 'em come!" (A woman, her eyes the same shade of green as the fisherman, smiles at you.) "It's not the first time, and it won't be the last. But what's it matter? They can't hurt us, and we can use their hides to make a lot of waterproof coats and cloaks." "Markyll, Malessa, I'd like to introduce you to someone. This is Yua, the commander of the crusade. She's the one I told you about." "Ah! A real hero in our little backwater! It's so nice of you to drop by we've never had anyone so important come to visit! Heroic acts are important, but sometimes it's good to leave the front lines, and talk to ordinary people living ordinary lives... Anyway, welcome to Chilly Creek." "Hydras are usually far more dangerous. That beast was not at its full strength." "I can tell you have an eye for such things!" "Well, of course she does, she's the commander of the crusade! She probably could have told you all that with her eyes shut!" (Malessa smiles at you.) "It's all thanks to our mother, Icy Rill. She takes care of her children, won't let anyone hurt them. She fills our nets with fish, and drives away the monsters." "That's right. And if she doesn't drive the beasts away, she'll weaken them, so we can kill them and harvest their hides." "Icy Rill? Who is that?"Those experienced with fantasy games probably have alarm bells going off in their heads already. Western fantasy is rarely friendly to the little gods of actual polytheistic traditions.  "The people of Chilly Creek hold the river in great reverence." (The priest's observation is matter-of-fact, but you notice his voice sounds a bit strained.) "How can we not? Our whole lives are built around the river from the wedding wreath we send down its stream, to the funeral boat that floats away on the waters when the time comes. Our mother, Icy Rill, feeds us, gives us water, protects us..." (With a kind smile, Markyll casts a sidelong glance at the frowning priest.) "The gods are far away, but our Icy Rill is right here, so we treat her with respect." "You two looked very confident when you were giving orders to the other villagers during the fight. Are you in charge here?" "Well, how should I put this... Our village is too small for anyone to be in charge. We just happen to know a thing or two about using a weapon, so if some nasty creature comes crawling out of the river, we give the orders. But, when it comes to fishing, or fixing nets, we'll be the ones following orders. We're not an army, and there are no officers here. We all live together, solve our problems together, and serve the Icy Rill together." "Although, truth be told, it's only been in the last few years that people have really started listening to us. Before that, villagers kept to themselves, and no one wanted to go poking their nose into anyone else's business. When we first came up with the idea to start trading on the river, the other villagers stubbornly dug in their heels. But after money and goods began to flow into the village, they changed their minds." "Yes, the village has been growing. We're getting to see all sorts of things we had only ever heard about before. The year before last, we had a fair, and people came all the way from Kenabres to attend. Then, a priest came, and we'd never seen one of those before in these parts. And now who'd have thought! the commander of the crusade has decided to pay us a visit." "And not just a Commander, but a child of the fox people! We hadn't even heard of your kind before the priest told us about you. Lots of wonders in this world, they never stop." "What are those grass dolls that hang from the trees in the grove?"Demonizing rural people and folklore is a persistent trend in the Western literary tradition, and one that never fails to irritate me. I grew up in a rural area, even if suburbia has now thoroughly overtaken the area where I grew up. Honestly, I blame the likes of Stephen King and H.P. Lovecraft for so firmly entrenching the idea that any odd local customs and beliefs in an isolated rural area must inherently be evil in the popular consciousness.  "It's just a ritual." (Malessa adds in a low voice. No one seems willing to share any further details with you.) "The Worldwound is nearby. Have you ever been attacked by demons?" "No, we've never seen any. Our mother, Icy Rill, keeps us safe. She would never let such abominations get near us." "I have to go. Take care." "Back to the front..." (Malessa shakes her head sadly.) "I can't even imagine the nightmarish creatures you have to fight there." "Have a safe journey, and a swift victory!"And with that the plot with Chilly Creek is done for now, we'll be coming back in a future chapter when - shocker - everything turns out to not be as happy as the locals make it sound.  Yua appropriates a new pair of gloves from a chest in the village.  There's some wildlife to kill if you explore the map.  Seeing a megaloceros wandering around reminded me of a fond memory. When I was in college I had quite a large collection of not-exactly-legally-purchased pdf copies of DnD 3.5E sourcebooks (on a laptop that no longer works, alas), and one of the books was called Frostburn, a sourcebook about setting campaigns in arctic climates. One of the organizations, and prestige class, in that book was the Knights of the Iron Glacier: an order of paladins who oppose the arctic environment itself as their sacred duty, protecting the brave settlers and villages of the icy frontier not just from monsters but the weather and natural disasters. They got a celestial megaloceros as a special paladin mount, which struck me as really cool.  Undead bear.  Moving on, the crusade splatters some more cultists and gets more free troops.  Then wipes out a mob of undead and gets something actually useful.  Yua gets a new weapon! Because I'm a dum-dum and forgot to save one of the magical glaives from Act 1 for Sosiel, Finnean shapeshifts go a glaive and goes to him for the moment.   Chief Ageboya, our general, levels up and gains the ability to put a fourth unit into her army. A few random events have given me a small pile of rangers (upgraded archers, I can't upgrade the existing archers at this time if ever), so I consolidate them into one stack and add them to Ageboya's army.  Crossing the river triggers a scene.   (The young man before you is trembling from his wounds and exhaustion. His boots are in tatters, and if he had any weapons or armor, he shed them along the way. His clothes are torn, and his hair is wet like he recently swam across a river. Blood oozes from the wounds on his chest and shoulders, and his skin is cracked and inflamed from the acrid water of the Worldwound.) "Commander..." (The man breathes heavily, and the words emerge as a whisper from his dry throat.) "My squad... Ambushed... Beyond the river... Help..." [Good] "Give our guest some water and something for his wounds." (The knight's wounds heal with the help of a magic potion. Taking a gulp of water, he catches his breath, snaps to attention and begins again.) "Yaker Ankelle, Hellknight of the Order of the Godclaw, under the command of Paralictor Regill Derenge. Our squad is under attack by demons far surpassing our number. Without your assistance, we are lost." "Hellknights! They've supported the crusaders more than once in our battle against the demons. Despite their..." (Irabeth cringes.) "... questionable reputation, we cannot abandon our allies in trouble." "If they really are our allies, then of course. It's just..." (Anevia looks Yaker over closely from head to toe.) "I kinda think this isn't a knight at all. A real Hellknight would be skinned alive for losing his infamous black armor. What we see here is a stranger without rank or insignia, who wants us to march to gods know where. Kinda smells like a trap to me!" "Yaker, who is attacking you and why can't you handle them on your own?"We've seen mention of hellknights before, in the Tower of Estrod. They are what they sound like: a collection of military orders founded on the idea that literal hell is a good model for society. They do oppose the chaos of the Abyss as much as any paladin, but hellknights are overwhelmingly very much not nice people and Anevia is not kidding about their idea of discipline. As it happens in this case, she's wrong because Yaker here is in fact a pretty bad hellknight.  "The flying beasts didn't fight us they just fell on us from the sky, grabbed our fighters, and either took them somewhere or threw them to their deaths. We were unprepared for that." "Where is your squad now?" "Not far from here, just on the other side of the river." "Hmm. It's not far for a single fighter who abandoned his armor and weapons. But we can't get across the river so easily. We'll have to take a detour. Even if we can save anyone, it will seriously delay our offensive on Drezen, and will give the enemy a chance to prepare." "I'll take the risk. We'll save your men." "Thank you, Commander! Our forces are here." (The knight points out the location on your map.) "The situation is critical. Please, send your reinforcements as soon as possible! I will go ahead and meet you there."If this wasn't an LP, I wouldn't be choosing to work with the Hellknights, but content is content. Pre-emptively asking all y'all to please be chill about this subject and not spoil what's coming up. The Crimson Path (this update) Hydra 1 Wolves 6 Undead Animals 2 Air Elemental Cluster 4 Cultist Platoons 60 Earth Elemental Cluster 2 Fire Elemental Cluster 5 Water Elemental Cluster 4 Wight Hordes 30 Zombie Hordes 30
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:48
|
|
|
I mean... you don't -have- to have to go rescue them, do you? I've admittedly never tried just ignoring them. Also sorry to hear that work sucks. Hopefully this lp helps a little with stress relief.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 21:31
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Those experienced with fantasy games probably have alarm bells going off in their heads already. Western fantasy is rarely friendly to the little gods of actual polytheistic traditions. While it is certainly true, Owlcat is Slavic developer and Slavic fantasy (and literature overall, especially 19th century literature) is usually much more friendly to folklore and local gods than its Western counterpart. While the best known example of Slavic fantasy, which would be Witcher 3*, has its local gods/demigods definitely evil, the books games were based on are much more nuanced when it comes to folklore. * by "Slavic" I mean "made by Slavic writers", not "set in Slavic setting", because, contrary to popular opinion, there is very little Slavic influence in Witcherverse. Szarrukin fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Apr 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:49
|
|
|
You get the chance to start upgrading your units in Act 3. But yeah, right now all we have are basics and the few specialty units we found like the Rangers and Shieldbearers. Talk to Garms in the camp and you can get Mounted Scouts at some point also. If you don't rescue the Hellknights, you miss out on some experience and will encounter them anyway later with less of their strengths available. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:55
|
|
|
It always amused me that when you ask the opinion of your buds about whether or not to rescue the hellknights only a few of them give a response that isn't a variation of 'gently caress em'.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:21
|
|
|
SettingSun posted:It always amused me that when you ask the opinion of your buds about whether or not to rescue the hellknights only a few of them give a response that isn't a variation of 'gently caress em'. "the Knights Who Say "gently caress 'Em" are begging for help, you say"
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:22
|
|
|
I actually like that Owlcat's put in Hellknights as a faction that you can or cannot work with; I see them as representing the idea of military expediency, to say the least- can/will you work with a side you're philosphically/morally opposed to, assuming a threat is all-consuming enough? Especially since the Hellknight unit you get is pretty powerful even despite their low numbers. That said, I'll probably wait for Cyth to get to them to go into more detail. Also, maybe I haven't read enough PF books, but I always saw Hellknights as devoted not to the laws of Hell, but to Law itself as a concept. Not the Aeon's unbending idea of what reality should be, mind you, but the concept of an overarching code or codes that all societies must follow, enforced with the ruthlessness and mercilessness of Hell, which is where one aspect of the name comes from. Depending on the Order, it's also entirely possible to play a Lawful Good Hellknight, albeit one who is more on the Law side than Good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 23:55
|
|
|
The enemy of my enemy is still kind of a dillhole.Cythereal posted:Demonizing rural people and folklore is a persistent trend in the Western literary tradition, and one that never fails to irritate me. I grew up in a rural area, even if suburbia has now thoroughly overtaken the area where I grew up. Honestly, I blame the likes of Stephen King and H.P. Lovecraft for so firmly entrenching the idea that any odd local customs and beliefs in an isolated rural area must inherently be evil in the popular consciousness. Lovecraft is definitely a significant influence here; his combination of anxiety and racism was the engine that drove his most significant works. His fear of these people was genuine, and it was carried through effectively in his stories. The fact that the plot in this particular town makes reference to the water increases the likelihood that it's Lovecraft specifically they were referencing (because my dude was absolutely horrified by anything that lived in or on the water). It's also potentially meaningful that both of the writers you mention here derive their fiction specifically from rural New England; there is a bit of an insular culture here that isn't necessarily as present in rural areas in other parts of the country. It's easy to imagine something sinister hiding behind that secrecy, even if it the real cause of it is just that people in these parts tend to value being left alone. That said, "the friendly people whose happy community turns out to hide dark secrets" is a trope as old as the hills; we have an examples of that that go back thousands of years. (Arguably the Lotus Eaters from The Odyssey, a 2800 year old work, are this, for instance.) It's all part of the human tendency to find people that live differently scary, and of course the stories of people in the larger communities have a greater chance of surviving.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 00:11
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:I see them as representing the idea of military expediency, to say the least- can/will you work with a side you're philosphically/morally opposed to, assuming a threat is all-consuming enough? This will in fact be Yua's in-character motivation for working with them even though she's going to be on the side of Chaotic Good. Every scorching ray that boils a hellknight inside their armor is a scorching ray not killing a crusader.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 00:11
|
|
|
We should recruit the Hellknights so we can send them to die first. Also so we can talk about how much they suck!
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 00:42
|
|
|
They really do suck.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
I like the Order of the Scourge Sure, the Orders of the Pyre, Nail and Rack can go hang, but I find myself aligning greatly with the Order of the Scourge in terms of philosophy, if not their Hellknight-specific actions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 01:19
|
|
|
Man the Order of the Godclaw really gets no love.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 01:25
|
|
|
RelentlessImp posted:Man the Order of the Godclaw really gets no love. Thats syncretist heretics for you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 01:31
|
|
|
I do not know who any of these people are beyond the bunch of useless whiners who just had to beg Yua for help and then act like it's the crusade's fault that the hellknights got their asses kicked.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 01:48
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:I do not know who any of these people are beyond the bunch of useless whiners who just had to beg Yua for help and then act like it's the crusade's fault that the hellknights got their asses kicked. The long story short is that Hellknights are separated into different Orders, each with their own philosophical differences, basically. That said, there might be an actual reason the Hellknights you meet are so surprisingly ineffective (other than 'we need the PC to feel important'), given that their abilities are very well-suited to be fighting demons- if I'm reading the timelines correctly, then another Adventure Path, Hell's Vengeance, is occurring at around the same time as Wrath. One of the events in that AP is that the home Citadel of the Order of the Godclaw (the Hellknights you meet here) is either being besieged, or has been taken by, an army of Iomedaean fanatics. So not only are the Iomedaean members of the Godclaw potentially suspect/actual defectors, the non-Iomedaeans are mostly probably all the way back home fighting said fanatics. Basically, the guys you meet here in the Worldwound? These are the ones who are capable of putting aside their own concerns about their homeland and internal politics to fight a greater evil. They are the nice Hellknights
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 02:34
|
|
|
The Hellknights are ineffective because fascists are fundamentally awful at war despite their obsession with it. If they're bad mechanically, that's just the game reflecting on real life facts  EDIT: This will in fact come into play once we dig deeper into Crusade Time in Chapter 3. The Hellknights and their philosophy are in fact fundamentally terrible at fighting this war, and there's no small amount of evidence that their interference and desire to participate has only made things worse for the Crusade. Save the Hellknights so you get access to their unit, and then shove that unit to soak attacks first. That is truly the only thing they are good for.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 02:46
|
|
|
You might think the hellknights hold themselves to typical philosophies of DnD law like the king's word is law, but they don't. They defer to their own doctrine called the Measure and the Chain and no matter who you are if you violate it you are being Unlawful. This is basically an excuse for them to be conventionally evil without being unlawful.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 02:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 02:06 |
|
|
I've never saved and never will. They claim to be badasses that are better than others, so they can prove it
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2024 02:56
|
|
