Electoral Politics and Political Strategies

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Electoral Politics and Political Strategies

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

I'll vote for whatever loving moron runs as a Democrat for Congress in my district but for the second presidential election in row, gently caress you Joe Biden I will not vote for you

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 13:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 10, 2024 18:19

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

Kalit posted:

If Biden ends up getting a lower turnout than 2020, especially to the point of losing, I can guarantee the takeaway won�t be �we need a candidate that�s further left�. It�s going to be �we need someone who�s more centrist to reflect the values of more Americans�.

Also, for your last question, it�s already answered in one of my previous posts ITT. I haven�t voted for the Democratic nominee in every presidential election.

Biden could get 1 vote or 100 million votes and the takeaway will be "drat we need someone more centrist" because that's always the takeaway.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 14:14

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

I voted Hillary in 2016 despite knowing she was terrible because I at least believed she'd fuckin win and thought it'd be funny if she ran up the vote (and gently caress Trump) but she couldn't even manage to win a loving thing so man what a waste of a vote. (Also because the green party candidate was blaming WiFI for cancer lmfao, even our worthless third party candidates are loving garbage)

I didn't vote for Biden in 2020 and instead threw it at a third party that my state didn't even bother to count because Biden loving sucks and the four years that has followed has only made me glad that I am not responsible for this fuckwad. If not voting for Biden results in a second Trump term, then that's not my fault and gently caress you.

Squall fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Feb 14, 2024

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 14:22

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

Civilized Fishbot posted:

The logic of responsibility here isn't coherent.

You say if you had chosen to vote for Biden, you would've been morally responsible for his election victory and what he did. That makes sense, because by choosing to vote for him, you made his victory more likely than if you had made a different choice.

By the same logic, if you choose not to vote for him in 2024, you're morally responsible for the outcome of that choice, compared to others you could have made - if Trump's elected, and you could have stopped it by voting for him against him, then of course it's your "fault."

We're responsible for the events that our actions make more or less likely, whether that action is voting or declining to vote. If helping Biden win in 2020 would've made you partially responsible for what happened when he won, then declining to help him in 2024 makes you partially responsible for what happens if he doesn't win.

I'm sorry that I didn't vote for the blue senile rapist to stop the red senile rapist but I still am not voting for him in 2024.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 14:57

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

Civilized Fishbot posted:

I'm not asking for an apology, I also didn't vote for Biden in 2020 and won't in 2024.

The way you're thinking about responsibility here - not you, but the way you're thinking about responsibility in the post I quoted - appears to be dumb.

By not-voting you accept as much responsibility over the outcome as by voting, because either way you're making a choice about how to use your power as a voter in a way that foreseeably makes one outcome more likely than another.

I voted, just not for either major party candidate. Hell, I helped get the Democrats control of the senate, so where the hell is my $600?

At least if Biden had lost, the liberals would actually pretend to care about the atrocities committed by our government instead of acting like they are amazing accomplishments.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 15:12

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

Civilized Fishbot posted:

So did I - and we are both responsible for the outcomes of those votes. If my third-party vote makes Trump more likely to be President than other options available to me, I'm responsible for that, and it's the same with you.

I don't see any consistent theory of moral responsibility in the way you talk about it.

So your moral stance is that it doesn't much matter what you do, you're either for Joe or for Trump. Fair enough, but gently caress that I'm not voting for either rear end in a top hat. Neither is a win.

Squall fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Feb 14, 2024

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 15:25

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

Civilized Fishbot posted:

No, my moral stance is that we're all responsible for the foreseeable consequences of our actions.

So for you to say "voting for Biden would make me more responsible for what he does" is correct, but to say "declining to vote for Biden does not increase my responsibility for what Trump does" is incorrect.

The foreseeable consequence of literally any choice in the 2020 and 2024 general is that either Joe Biden or Donald Trump will be president so does it really much loving matter then? Both suck rear end and frankly I am still not convinced one is better than the other in the long term.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 15:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 10, 2024 18:19

Squall: Mar 10, 2010; "...whatever."

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Sure, but earlier you were talking about Trump replacing Biden like it's such an obviously bad thing that you have to preemptively disavow responsibility for it.

If you've now changed to "sure, by choosing to withhold my vote from Biden I might increase my responsibility for Trump becoming President instead, but it's impossible to tell whether this is good or bad" then that's a consistent theory of responsibility.

My mindset for 2020 is that Trump would have likely been worse in the short term and Biden is probably worse in the long term. Frankly I think my sanity would have improved if Trump had won so all the partisan hacks would have at least pretended to care about the atrocities that are happening. I wasn't going to vote for Trump just to try to accelerate to someone worth voting for though, frankly because I thought that Biden would have the common courtesy to either die or let someone else run in 2024. Morally there was no moral choice in 2020 and frankly I don't see one in 2024 either. The best case scenario is that old age manages to take both of them before the election. I am curious what other people thinks the "moral" choice is.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 16:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Electoral Politics and Political Strategies