Electoral Politics and Political Strategies

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Timmy Age 6: Jul 23, 2011; Lobster says "mrow?"; Ramrod XTreme

Josef bugman posted:

Sure, and is that not an indication of support for what they do? Is this some sort of weird thing that the vote is for winning elections but it doesn't mean a show of support for what people do?

It could, for example, be indicative of the fact that I support increased funding for climate resilience and scientific research, and one candidate is more likely to do that while another will slash the funding and end programs that I depend on. That doesn't mean I care about TikTok being divested, which is another thing that could be endorsed by the same candidate.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2024 00:21

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:06

Timmy Age 6: Jul 23, 2011; Lobster says "mrow?"; Ramrod XTreme

Josef bugman posted:

Going out and voting also doesn't get you closer to a better system. As has been proven by the last, what, 40+ years of governance?

If you think nothing has improved in the last 40+ years, I think that might just be because you haven�t looked. An American example, which I realize isn�t terribly relevant to you: as much as the Affordable Care Act is nowhere near what we really need, the combination of employer mandate to offer health care, caps on out of pocket maximums, and bans on denials due to preexisting conditions meant that when I got diagnosed with cancer in grad school, I didn�t die or go completely bust. And I can tell you that the ACA is responsible for me having care because at a previous institution before the ACA was passed, I not only couldn�t get insurance through the school but got denied when I tried to get it on the open market due to a preexisting condition - a 10 year old depression diagnosis. So yeah, even lovely half measures can produce measurable improvements, as measured in �the likelihood of me dying of a treatable disease.� This doesn�t mean the problems are solved, but this is one where voting actually, obviously, made a difference.

# ¿ May 10, 2024 13:09

Timmy Age 6: Jul 23, 2011; Lobster says "mrow?"; Ramrod XTreme

Josef bugman posted:

Have the systems improved? That's what I am saying there. Some things have improved, some things have gone backwards and gotten worse, but the systems that rule people have gotten worse. The US is still beholden to money and vast tracts of empty land have more sway than human beings.

I'm not saying that things aren't better in some areas, definetly not, but what I am saying is that the structures of rule are generally bad and getting worse.

A lot of the systemic issues are artifacts handed down to us from the 1780s. And there are a whole lot of US citizens who don't actually see them as problems! That's a big issue and if you retreat behind a "systems bad front" and don't engage with that, whether by voting or conversations and outreach and ideally all of the above, everything only gets worse.

That's why the attitude of "the systems are terrible, nothing can improve unless we change the people" scares me so much... historically, whenever someone has a really bright idea that if only everyone could be made to see my way, we'd have none of these pesky unbelievers around and everything would be better, there's a whole lot of bloodshed just behind that door. If you cannot come to grips with the fact that a lot of people really, truly do not have the same values and priorities that you do, and those people have rights just like you do, you will never be able to figure out a path towards any improvement.

# ¿ May 10, 2024 14:10

Timmy Age 6: Jul 23, 2011; Lobster says "mrow?"; Ramrod XTreme

Josef bugman posted:

Are you implying I am planning mass murder because I think the various different government structures are getting worse?

No, I don't think you're planning mass murder. It's just any worldview that doesn't seem to account for "how do we deal with my views being a minority opinion" doesn't seem favored to succeed. Which sucks, when your views are not evil!
Apologies, posting before coffee metabolism occurs is a bad idea.

# ¿ May 10, 2024 14:46

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