Electoral Politics and Political Strategies

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The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

DeadlyMuffin posted:

Biden's administration has made defending transgender people a priority. If that were to reverse I would find it harder to vote for him.

Could you explain what he has done to defend trans persons, let alone as "a priority"?

Everything I've seen is barely anything. For instance: https://www.hrc.org/resources/president-bidens-pro-lgbtq-timeline. Everything on here is: hosting a dinner, calling for action, proposing a plan, and other performative measures the result in headlines that provide an assumption that he's doing something without actually meaning anything.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 17:32

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 17:16

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Kalit posted:

Here's two easy concrete examples, which are two executive orders he has signed:
https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/what-president-bidens-lgbtq-executive-order-does-and-doesnt-do (based on https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...al-orientation/)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/biden-executive-order-anti-trans-laws-and-conversion-therapy (based on https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ex-individuals/)

The operative verbs in all of that are things like "must now consider" and "asks [entity] to do a thing." That's the exact thing I was talking about regarding performative announcements that are not actions creating a specific outcome. I appreciate your help in proving my point.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 18:28

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

James Garfield posted:

I would suggest actually reading the executive orders before being smug about how it proved your point. They are fairly short and easy to understand. "asks entity to do a thing" is the language the article writers chose to describe an executive order which says "entity shall do thing".

I did and I maintain my thoughts on the matter.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Mar 8, 2024

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 20:57

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Dopilsya posted:

Note that I don't work on lgbtq issues and I don't have a particular stance on how much of a priority they are for the Biden admin, but the link you provided absolutely shows action. Taking the first three things-

1. Rule finalized which restores anti-discrimination protections in federally funded health care. That's pretty clear "doing something"

2. Remarks at a dinner- depends on how much you consider raising awareness and trying to visibly show acceptance to a minority community is doing something.

3. Proposed rule for safety requirements and barring conversion therapy in foster homes that lbtq youth are placed in. Notice of proposed rulemaking is again clearly "doing something".

For 1

quote:

These principles are reflected in the Constitution, which promises equal protection of the laws. These principles are also enshrined in our Nation�s anti-discrimination laws, among them Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended (42 U.S.C. 2000e et seq.). In Bostock v. Clayton County, 590 U.S. ___ (2020), the Supreme Court held that Title VII�s prohibition on discrimination �because of . . . sex� covers discrimination on the basis of gender identity and sexual orientation. Under Bostock�s reasoning, laws that prohibit sex discrimination � including Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, as amended (20 U.S.C. 1681 et seq.), the Fair Housing Act, as amended (42 U.S.C. 3601 et seq.), and section 412 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended (8 U.S.C. 1522), along with their respective implementing regulations � prohibit discrimination on the basis of gender identity or sexual orientation, so long as the laws do not contain sufficient indications to the contrary.

This is from the EO. It's stating that it's already supposed to be protected so the EO doesn't really do anything new on it's own that I can see.

For 2
I'm all for awareness and it can be valuable but in this specific context that we are discussing it I feel it can easily be attributed to performative action. Letter From Birmingham Jail, etc.

For 3

quote:

(a) The Secretary of HHS shall establish an initiative to reduce the risk of youth exposure to so-called conversion therapy. As part of that initiative, the Secretary of HHS shall, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law:

(i) consider whether to issue guidance clarifying for HHS programs and services agencies that so-called conversion therapy does not meet criteria for use in federally funded health and human services programs;

(ii) increase public awareness of the harms and risks associated with so-called conversion therapy for LGBTQI+ youth and their families;

(iii) increase the availability of technical assistance and training to health care and social service providers on evidence-informed promising practices for supporting the health, including mental health, of LGBTQI+ youth, and on the dangers of so-called conversion therapy; and

(iv) seek funding opportunities for providers of evidence-based trauma-informed services to better support survivors of so-called conversion therapy.

(b) The Federal Trade Commission is encouraged to consider whether so-called conversion therapy constitutes an unfair or deceptive act or practice, and to issue such consumer warnings or notices as may be appropriate.

For 3 iii and iv those are a little more concrete. I still have a bit of an issue with that it's not a specific plan but the others are less substantial in my opinion.

As well, I bring up again that my disagreement was with the statement "biden is making protecting LGBTQ+ persons a priority" because it doesn't really seem like a priority. Has he done nothing at all, I can't say that. Has he made this a priority, definitely not. Trans persons that I know personally and online do not feel that he is protecting them; anecdotal, sure, but that is my experience.

Further, I did not see anything in there that outright banned conversion therapy. I would be very happy to be proven wrong as that poo poo is evil.

In anticipating counter-arguments of "he's suggesting different parts of government doing something, and that's a strong use of his power," it's a less substantial use of his power compared to sending money and weapons to fund a genocide or bypassing federal laws to make sure the border wall gets built. For those latter cases he didn't just suggest that different agencies consider whether or not to get it done. He just did it. That's what a priority looks like.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 8, 2024

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 22:55

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Barrel Cactaur posted:

Having an FTC notice makes it effectively impossible to advertise. Its effectively the death penalty for a service. A published notice (legally, an open ended cease and desist) that they consider "conversion therapy" to be a fraudulent service (on the advice from experts and testimony of victems that it doesn't actually work) starts the timer for the penalty on day one.

After the notice is publicly published, literally going up on the street and telling someone your starting a conversion therapy camp costs up to 10000 bucks a day. Also they will likely make the owner give refunds.

That is great to hear and something that I did not know. Thank you.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 07:53

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

DeadlyMuffin posted:

It might not matter to you. It matters to me.

It does matter to me.

It doesn't matter to Biden, though.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-embassies-banned-from-flying-pride-flags-new-government-spending-bill/

He approved banning pride flags. What a champion of the movement.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2024 18:59

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

You seem to be unaware that Biden did not write that bill, the REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED HOUSE did. You also seem to be unable to understand the concept of spending bills, or are unaware that Presidents specifically are legally banned from individually vetoing specific lines and therefore the only way to remove that part would be to veto the entire big package, start the budget process all over again and hope the Republicans don't just put the exact same provision in again.

In other words, your post does not reflect well on you.

"Signed by President Biden"

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# ¿ Mar 30, 2024 19:11

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Oh, sorry. Apparently I wasn't clear enough with my explanation. Let me try again:

You're a moron.

Apparently I wasn't clear enough:

I know how the process works and that he didn't write the bill.

He signed it. Buck stops with him.

Edit: I'm not even sure if you're following the conversation or just jumping in to throw a fit with no context. Biden is not a champion for the lgbtq+ community, is what is being discussed. And it is one of the reasons I am protesting voting for Biden.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 30, 2024

# ¿ Mar 30, 2024 19:55

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Okay, so you expect Biden to veto the entire budget bill over that one line. Do you have a plan to stop the Republicans from putting that line in the next budget they put forth, and the next, and the next, until the debt ceiling is reached? You've vastly oversimplifying the issue to the point of absurdity. Budgets are imperfect, and they're especially difficult to put together with a split House and Senate.

You don't have to like that part got into the bill, I don't like that part being in the bill either. However, your viable choices for President are either Joe Biden, or a member of a party which is openly anti-LGBTQ+ and passing bills to that effect in states all over the country. The way to get more LGBTQ champions, the way to get that crap out of budget bills is to get more Democrats elected. I don't see how you get to where you want from your methods.

Cool for all that. I'm happy to respond after you respond to the original discussion instead of gishgalloping around it.

Biden is not a champion for lgbtq+ persons. That is my claim. Feel free to interact with it.

As for the topic of the thread, this type of lack of support doesn't inspire me to vote for a candidate.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Mar 30, 2024

# ¿ Mar 30, 2024 20:57

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

What is your goal in making your claim? What is the policy outcome you are seeking?

Like I said:

Feel free to interact with my claim.

Asking what my goal is is not interacting with my claim.

quote:

EDIT: Well, if you're not going to answer my simple question, then I'm not going to engage in this discussion any further.

Yeah, your bullying tactics aren't working on me
Glad you noticed. If you feel like returning to the conversation by responding to what I said instead of demanding that I only respond to things you personally ask after ignoring my stated claim then feel free to come back with your head up. Until then, you're coming off as a gishgallop that won't respond to what I've said. Take your ball and go home. I'll stay on the court.

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The Sean fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 30, 2024

# ¿ Mar 30, 2024 21:31

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

socialsecurity posted:

Votes are how people win elections.

US citizens who are 18 years old on or before Election Day can vote.

Anyone can spout some random fact like that and it adds nothing to the conversation.

Have you considered instead that your response to Josef should be related to what they were actually saying or do you think regurgitating random facts has some rhetorical value?

The Sean fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 31, 2024

# ¿ Mar 31, 2024 00:11

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Kalit posted:

Can't the inverse of this also be true? For example, if you refuse to vote in the US for POTUS in 2024 (and are left leaning to whatever degree), doesn't that mean you are being unsupportive of things that Biden would continue to work on? Such as more affordable college, transgender rights, etc?

"Continue to work on" implies that he is doing anything substantial in the categories you mentioned. He isn't. So, for your answer, it's impossible to be unupportive of a thing a candidate is not focused on.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2024 15:05

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Mooseontheloose posted:

Is this based on anything or do you just not like Joe Biden?

Here is GLAAD's tracker on LGBTQ work: https://glaad.org/biden-harris/ this includes statements and actions taken by the administration.
You can read about green energy policy here. Which was passed with a slim majority. A $1.2 trillion dollar investment into infrastructure and than another what $600 billion in green energy investments.

Yeah, and that tracker is pretty much a collection of statements instead of action. I've already explained how useless this is. My previous position stands. Biden is not a champion of the LBGTQ+ community--the thing you are responding to me about--and your attempt to state otherwise is pretty sad.

My opinion about Biden has no effect on what he has or has not done for LBGTQ persons. It's weird for you to bring up my personal opinion as a distraction tactic to cover for Biden's actions (or lack thereof). You trying to bring up my opinion of BIden is a clear distraction away from conversing about what Biden has or has not done as POTUS.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 1, 2024

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 20:04

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Mooseontheloose posted:

From the White House itself: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...qi-communities/

Oh, wow. A bunch of announcements that don't result in any direct action. I'm so impressed at these gestures!

The Sean fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Apr 1, 2024

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 20:15

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Kalit posted:

They will just keep claiming that anything Biden has done isn't "substantial enough" or something similar to that.

Yeah, the bar for "Person substantially did something" relies on substantive action. Pretty basic poo poo.

Kalit posted:

FYI, that poster is just trolling

Rule I.B - Assume good faith.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 1, 2024

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 20:21

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Mooseontheloose posted:

Tell me what in those announcements isn't substantive.

Sure

09.23.2022 LGBTQ legend Elton John headlines a concert on the White House lawn

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 20:28

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Mooseontheloose posted:

Again, you aren't addressing the actual actions taken by the Biden administration. Tell me what is not substantive of the orders and actions taken.

This what you asked:

Mooseontheloose posted:

Tell me what in those announcements isn't substantive.

I delivered exactly what you asked for, from the source you referred to. Sorry that I answered your call and it didn't make your position look any better. Don't whine about the source that you leaned on. That's on you, dude.

If you want to make a more honest request*, you can ask me to just blindly agree with you no matter what the evidence is. At least at that point I can tell you "no, I won't do that." But don't expect to make demands of me otherwise where I would have to be dishonest in order to make posts that make you feel okay with your position.

*Stating this because I answered what you asked for but you attacked me anyways.

The Sean fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Apr 1, 2024

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 20:32

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Mooseontheloose posted:

-On President Joe Biden�s first day in office, he signed an executive order (EO) directing all federal agencies that enforce federal laws prohibiting sex discrimination to also prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity (SOGI) in areas including but not limited to employment, housing, health care, education, and credit. From the time of the announcement, each agency has 100 days to develop plans to implement the executive order�meaning they are due this week.

- One area where the Biden administration did offer concrete policy for transgender youth was in the establishment of Title IX sex discrimination protections for transgender kids. The directive from the Department of Education allows the federal government to investigate complaints of discrimination against trans kids in schools, something that the administration of President Donald Trump declined to take up.

-Early this year (2022), the Department of Health and Human Services announced that it was restoring the Obama-era protections and adding new rules to bolster insurance coverage for gender-affirming medical care.

- To protect against these increasing threats, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), with support from the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), will launch the LGBTQI+ Community Safety Partnership. The Partnership will work hand-in-hand with LGBTQI+ community organizations to provide critical safety resources to ensure these organizations can remain safe spaces for the community. In acknowledgement of the mistreatment that LGBTQI+ communities have often faced in interactions with law enforcement, the Partnership will also work to build trust between LGBTQI+ organizations and federal law enforcement agencies. The Partnership will:

-Provide dedicated safety trainings for LGBTQI+ community organizations and increase federal threat briefings for LGBTQI+ organizations. DHS, through the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), will provide trainings to LGBTQI+ community organizations � including community centers, small businesses, and Pride festivals � to help them prevent and respond to threats. DHS will host bi-monthly threat briefings (or as required based on changes in the threat levels) for LGBTQI+ organizations to provide updates on the threat landscape and review key indicators of violence, and offer resources for local leaders. DHS will also lead a series of workshops for LGBTQI+ community organizations to raise awareness of federal funding for both physical security and threat prevention grant opportunities.

-Protect health care providers who serve the LGBTQI+ community. DHS and HHS will work with health care providers and medical associations to provide access to safety trainings and improve threat reporting to support doctors, clinics, and children�s hospitals that face increasing threats when they care for LGBTQI+ patients.

-Support LGBTQI+ communities to report hate crimes and build cross-community partnerships to address hate-fueled violence. U.S. Attorneys� Offices, FBI Field Offices, DOJ Community Relations Service (CRS), the Civil Rights Division and others will undertake targeted engagement with community groups from the LGBTQI+ community and other communities victimized by hate crimes to increase understanding about how to report hate crimes. DOJ will also enhance public trust and public safety by partnering with state and local law enforcement agencies to increase the number of law enforcement officers who have completed CRS�s training programs on engaging with transgender individuals. Through its United Against Hate initiative, which brings together diverse communities to help improve the reporting of hate crimes and provide an opportunity for trust building between law enforcement and communities, DOJ will engage LGBTQI+ communities and other communities victimized by hate crimes as the program is expanded to all 94 U.S. Attorneys� Offices by the end of September.

-Support the mental health of LGBTQI+ youth and partner with families to affirm LGBTQI+ kids. LGBTQI+ youth face a nationwide mental health crisis, and almost half of LGBTQI+ kids say they seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year. However, when LGBTQI+ kids are supported, they thrive. Today, HHS is announcing it will issue a Behavioral Health Care Advisory on Transgender and Gender Diverse Youth to provide evidence-based practices for mental health providers. HHS will also issue a guidance to states and communities on using federal funding to support mental health services for LGBTQI+ youth, including funding from the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and provide technical assistance to communities to increase LGBTQI+ youth mental health services. HHS�s Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) has also just released an LGBTQI+ Family Support Grant to provide $1.7 million in federal funding for programs that prevent health and behavioral health risks for LGBTQI+ youth (including suicide and homelessness) by helping families to affirm and support their LGBTQI+ child.

-Protect LGBTQI+ youth in foster care. LGBTQI+ youth are overrepresented in the child welfare system, and far too often experience trauma, including being exposed to so-called �conversion therapy� while in care, being placed in foster care or congregate care settings that are hostile to their identity, or lacking access to health care and mental health services to support them. Today, the Administration for Children and Families at HHS is announcing that it will advance a rulemaking under Title IV-E of the Social Security Act to protect LGBTQI+ youth in foster care by requiring that state child welfare agencies ensure that LGBTQI+ youth have access to a safe and appropriate placement and have access to supportive services that help to affirm them. To inform this potential proposed rule, HHS will continue engaging with LGBTQI+ youth, foster parents, and other stakeholders.

-Shield LGBTQI+ kids and families from discrimination. The HHS Office for Civil Rights is announcing that it expects to issue proposed regulations to protect LGBTQI+ kids and families from discrimination in human services programs that support children and families. This Rule would strengthen protections eroded by the previous Administration to help protect LGBTQI+ Americans from discrimination.

-Address LGBTQI+ youth homelessness. The Department of Housing and Urban Development is announcing that it will launch a new LGBTQI+ Youth Homelessness Initiative to partner with local communities, service providers, and directly affected young people to address LGBTQI+ youth homelessness. Nearly 40 percent of all youth experiencing homelessness identify as LGBTQI+. HUD will encourage communities to develop collaborative solutions to address the specific needs of LGBTQI+ youth experiencing homelessness. HUD will also provide technical assistance and regular training for shelter and service providers, new resources highlighting innovative methods for supporting LGBTQI+ youth, and Know Your Rights tools for LGBTQI+ youth. This work will be informed by listening sessions HUD will hold with LGBTQI+ youth across the country.

Is this in response to me or something? You didn't write like a person would. Just a low-effort copy paste without any context, rhetoric, or really anything of value.

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The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 1, 2024

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 22:13

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 17:16

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

Kalit posted:

It�s a fact, not an assumption

Thanks for further confirming that you are breaking the rules.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2024 22:36

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