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Koos Group posted:Agreed. We already ramp for the same offense, but I've been considering steeper ramps and more ramps for related but not exactly the same offenses, due to the amount of recidivism and an increase in reports and violations that's been happening. Part of the issue is that what once person considers debunked is not the same as another person. In the I/P thread there are people who see any indication that a journalist has interacted with the Israeli government as disqualifying, and pointing it out is enough to debunk a source. So if someone posts one of those sources there's a bunch of whining about how it's already debunked and shouldn't ever be discussed again. Marenghi and I probably have different options on what it takes to disqualify or debunk a source. Unless you start tracking what conversations have been sufficiently discussed and should not be discussed again barring new information, which sounds awful, you're going to have this "problem". The I/P thread in particular seems to have little to no moderation and a lot of very low content posting. You can go back and look at the "Biden is going to make a pier and give it to Israel!" hysteria from a couple days ago.
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Mar 10, 2024 23:55
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Valentin posted:longtime reader, infrequent poster. DND policy continues to reward pointless verbosity and the appearance of effort over intellectual clarity and (most importantly) posting and stating your opinion. this has reduced the number of unique people posting and overall posts made such that e.g. the I/P thread manages to regularly go full days without a single post because no one is incentivized to engage because there are very obviously no readers. thoughtful and well-cited posts on various political topics are made with regularity on this site and I almost never read them in DND, because the policy here rewards posting which drives away posters, and the fact that people (including the despised imagined low-effort poster) could be reading what you are saying is one of the main reasons to try to make a good, persuasive, well-reasoned post. The reason I find the I/P thread so frustrating to read and post in is because it seems like anything remotely critical of Hamas is taken as full throated support for Israel's genocide, and discussion ends up in arguments about how people are actually trying to run interference for the Biden administration. It isn't too much moderation that makes that thread suck, it's the almost complete absence of it until things get *really* bad. Someone who steps in and tells people to cool it would stop it from getting to that point and make for a far more interesting thread.
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Mar 11, 2024 01:31
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Fister Roboto posted:This is what I mean by posters dancing around the issue. If someone came into the cop thread, for example, and posted a bunch of statistics about black crime, or pointed out that the most recent victim of police brutality had a criminal record, there would be no doubt that they were trying to justify police brutality, or at least deflect from the extremely valid criticisms of the police. Even if they started every post with "I don't condone police brutality BUT". The exact same thing is going on in the IP thread but on a larger scale ("I don't condone genocide BUT"). If you don't think that they're trying to justify Israel's actions, then what other point do you think they're making? That Hamas is bad? Great, most people already agree with that. So what's the next logical step that they want us to take? It's not a particularly interesting point if that's all it is. I think you're making my point. There was serious discussion about whether or not most of the October 7th deaths were *actually* due to friendly fire. I'm surprised you think most people agree with "Hamas is bad", because there are some real efforts to avoid saying that. It's like having a conversation with someone about WW2, and mentioning that the Allies should've bombed the rail lines to Auschwitz, or shouldn't have dropped atomic bombs on Japan, and getting treated like you were cheerleading the Nazis or Imperial Japanese. A conflict can have a very clear right and wrong side and still have details like this worth discussing. Your vision for the thread is "Israel bad" and yeah, dude, we know, but there's more to talk about than that. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 03:02
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Fister Roboto posted:And people have explained multiple times in multiple ways what is wrong with this framing. If you keep insisting otherwise then I think that falls under the "stale argument" clause. It isn't "this argument is stale" it's "I don't want to talk about this". If you don't want to talk about those topics, nobody's holding you down and making you post. But trying to stop discussions you don't like by pretending they're settled and discussing them is making a "stale argument" is just twisting the moderation rules to try and get what you want.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:20
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Majorian posted:Yeah, I agree with this and what Probably Magic said 100%. The rules about impugning others' motives do not apply evenly among posters, and the divide clearly falls along ideological lines. The fact that this post didn't get hit for assuming bad faith in other posters (and/or inciting inter-forums drama) shows how biased the moderation is. Here's the offending paragraph: We need to stop treating this like a team sport. You interpret comments about some members of a group you belong to as applying to the entire group, and take offense to it. You derailed USCE over this just the other day because you interpreted comments about some people calling for a ceasefire as demeaning to all people doing so. This would be a lot less frustrating place if posters treated it like a discussion and not as an us vs. them exercise Fister Roboto posted:Absolutely. If this is supposed to be the serious debate forum, then the moderators need to take an active role in actually moderating the debate, and not just through handing out probations. I didn't do debate club in high school but I'm pretty sure that you're not supposed to penalize people in a debate by gagging them for 6 hours. I also think we should punish people the same way high schoolers are, and DV shouldn't be allowed to attend the spring formal, and should probably also get detention. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 22:43
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Probably Magic posted:Two years ago, you were advocating for America to intervene on the Palestinian behalf as part of your argument defending America arming the Ukrainians against the Russians. If you're doing this much pearl-clutching over Hamas, a group America doesn't fund, while shrugging about the Azov Battalion, my question is, why should anyone take you seriously? I would still love to see the US intervene on the behalf of Palestinians. I'm not holding my breath, obviously. I'm not sure why you think I'm unwilling to discuss Ukranian shortcomings. I do think scaremongering about the Azov battalion is is overblown by people trying to paint the Ukranian side as Nazis. They aren't mutually exclusive. I also think that there is more gray area ethically with Hamas than with the Ukranian government. That's probably inevitable when one is a government and one is in large part a resistance group, although they're the elected government in Gaza. The fact that you see this as some sort of gotcha, or frankly that you're tracking my positions over years, is evidence of your own fixation with me than anything wrong with D&D. Probably Magic posted:I'd argue one of the more major problems with D&D is its insistence in taking arguments like yours seriously but also if engagement with posters like you goes too long and lapses even a smidge with formality when it comes to these ridiculous claims, punishment incurs. It is, to put it as nicely as possible, an unbalanced ratio of effort. This just reads as a weird grudge, and that you're mad about seeing my posts in a place where you have to have a moderated discussion, as opposed to the CCCC thread where I have posted with you before. Esran posted:Are you referring to something else? Yeah, I'm referring to an earlier discussion. I can dig up a link this evening DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 23:38
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E Depois do Adeus posted:Aside from the cadre point. I don't post in this forum ever, if at all, and this articulates the main reason why. There is a frequent type of post here, which is essentially illogical points made from a false premise. Because of the overall tone of D&D, these posts occupy a large part of the screen, and require a decent amount of effort to contradict. They frequently use rhetorical strategies such as asking several questions, with the result that large spans of text stem from these idiotic posts. It is simpler and healthier to simply not post at all. There are other sub forums on this website that I don't post in, in large part because I expect if I did post there that a disagreement with the core thread cohort would result in me being called stupid or presented with two year old forum quotes to argue about by people with a grudge, as has happened in this very thread. I don't think "everyone on the site should want to post here" is a good goal for a sub forum. It certainly isn't one that I expect from any other sub forum. I don't post in AI either, because I find talking about cars boring. That's okay.
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Mar 12, 2024 20:06
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Probably Magic posted:I'm not that interested in a slapfight with you, but to be clear, you're implying that having a memory is a form of harassment. No, I'm implying I was harassed in the CCCC thread. It was mostly by YMB, but I don't recall you saying anything helpful.I learned a lesson about the value of moderation. It's why I left. Probably Magic posted:(a) Don't pretend you weren't just sniping at me in the electoralism thread, something I'm sure you were doing with no bitterness in your heart and completely pure of malice I had to go back and look. I did call saying "there's no expectation placed on the Democratic Party to deliver on its promises" blatantly counterfactual nonsense, but it is. I expanded on why in a later post. And to be clear, I think the blanket statement that nobody has an expectation that a political party will deliver on its promises is a pretty wild thing to say. Obviously people don't expect 100%, but if a Democratic or even a Republican politician says "I will deliver X" there is *some* expectation that they will try to do so, and care about doing so. It's a good example of a pretty wild claim being treated as a good faith argument, actually. I didn't just call you stupid and move on like E Depois do Adeus is advocating for. I did also ask you to put in paragraph breaks because I found your post difficult to read without it. I stand by it.  Koos Group posted:The reason dredging up someone's old forum quotes isn't an acceptable way to show they're operating in bad faith (and if it were, you would be expected to use it in a report or PM, not in a thread, regardless) is that posters' opinions can change, and there is nothing dishonest about this. The rule about posting about D&D while posting in D&D, in contrast, is about what's currently happening. As an additional minor point, the rule doesn't assume this means a poster must necessarily be operating in bad faith, only that it makes it more difficult for other posters to trust that they aren't. There isn't even a real contradiction in the two year old discussion. I'd think the right answer would be to actually address it in the thread "I thought you believed X, how is that consistent with Y?" and you'd get an actual answer rather than seething about it. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 22:01
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gurragadon posted:My feedback would be to leave this thread open permanently even though you can't get to responses immediately all the time. The thread always blows up when you open it but dies down eventually. The traditional games feedback thread was like that but hasn't had a new post since early December. This feedback thread is going to have more responses because its D&D but dealing with things publicly as close to when they occur works really well for forums. I think this is a good idea
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Mar 14, 2024 19:07
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Esran posted:It's not my feedback thread, so it's up to the mods what kind of feedback they think is valuable, but I would consider a post like this worthless, because you're not backing your claims at all. At least two other people in this thread have done this exact same thing: Complain about how mean people are being to them, and how many rules those posters are certainly breaking, and when they're asked to point to the posts that show this happening, they go silent. I just took a quick look at the I/P thread DelilahFlowers posted:Nazi poo poo is allowed here? Here's an example of knee jerk calling someone a genocide denier: Bel Shazar posted:That is just an amazing amount of words to say why people shouldn't consider using force to stop a genocide... And an example with China in it since the post that you were responding to mentioned that Stringent posted:These are flat out lies, and it's absolutely pathetic you're dragging them into this thread thinking they provide any kind of comparison to Israel. How many tons of HE has the PLAAF dropped in Xianjiang? How many thousands of children have been slaughtered? How are you not ashamed of yourself for posting this poo poo?
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Mar 16, 2024 14:31
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