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My opinion is that ending martial law in the I/P thread has done more harm than good. I get that the risk of harsh punishments has a chilling effect on posting, especially since mods are human and can make a bad call. But bad calls erring on the side of "too harsh" can be and usually are reversed in D&D, from what I've seen. And now, the I/P thread seems to be an example of Gresham's Law of Posting - bad posting drives out good, far more thoroughly than martial law ever did. I've been reading D&D almost daily since early 2020. Two D&D regulars I would like to nominate for IK or mod, if they're willing and able to consider it, are Main Paineframe and Professor Beetus. Both of them post fairly often in D&D. They back up their arguments with research and sources. They follow D&D rules, including and especially when interacting with posters they disagree vehemently with.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:37
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Probably Magic posted:My sincere advice is that Discendo Vox be made D&D moderator. I do not think he will stop backseat modding until he is, I don't think the people who like his posting will stop complaining until he is, and I think it is reflective of the desires of the general American D&D populace. That recommendation was shot down in the previous feedback thread by DV personally, when they stated they would never accept IK or mod. I will be very shocked if they change their mind. Another D&D regular I am recommending for IK or mod is Leon Trotsky 2012, for the same reasons as Main Paineframe and Professor Beetus.
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Mar 11, 2024 17:11
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Giggs posted:This doesn't fit with the premise that D&D doesn't moderate positions (even though it does imo, for the same reasons why Cinci was such an awful mod, and why Cinci turned out to be such a ridiculous weirdo), not to mention the constant reliance on "bad faith" being a meaningless subjective cudgel that allows D&D posters the easiest workaround to "objectivity" Koos et al presumably intended to establish with the ruleset. I read the D&D Ukraine thread daily under Cinci's tenure and it was not what you describe here. No one was under the illusion that Something Awful posts help the war effort. The OP specifically was very explicit that SA posting does nothing to affect the war either way. I just looked up what "helldumping" means because I'm not familiar with the word. Apparently "helldumping" is exhaustively searching a person's history for stuff to cancel them. I do not remember any accusations of helldumping at all, let alone false accusations of helldumping. Sometimes posters would get their post histories scrutinized, but no worse than when discussing anything else controversial. The most closely scrutinized posters were the ones notorious for "syq mining" or whatever the gently caress it's called, fishing for quotes they could repeat and mock on C-SPAM. "Posters who disagree with me are genuinely agents of foreign influence who are trying to dismantle freedom, love, and democracy" - if I take what you said literally, then it literally never happened. If I take that phrase as a sarcastic exaggeration because pro-Russia or anti-military-aid-to-Ukraine posters got dogpiled on a lot, then okay, that happened? Those posters did get dogpiled on. But the dogpilers still had to follow D&D rules or they'd eat probes. Stringent posted:OK, why? You're not the only one asking why the I/P thread could be called "deranged" or in need of martial law, but if the past 1-2 weeks of I/P posts don't convince you then I don't know what would. Obviously not all of the I/P posts are horrendous but the thread is subject to frequent horrific derails, and then derails of complaining about the horrific derails, and then the thread will stop moving for a while because no one is posting anything, not even the latest current events - the bad posting has driven out the good.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:06
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Majorian posted:This is not something that happens with any frequency. There are a lot of posters who are regulars in both DnD and C-SPAM. That's a good thing - it should be encouraged, not discouraged. Yes, there are threads in C-SPAM where occasionally a particularly egregious DnD post gets laughed at, but C-SPAM regulars, for the most part, don't actually post in DnD to provoke goofy quotes. Those rare instances where this does happen usually end up with the cspammer probated or banned. I didn't mean to imply that "syq mining" happened frequently. It didn't happen frequently. I do think there would have been more "syq mining" than there was, if Cinci hadn't been as vigilant about spotting and punishing the rare offenders.
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Mar 13, 2024 00:25
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mawarannahr posted:There is still dogpiling and digging into years-old post histories in the War in Ukraine thread; there was an ugly example with someone whose name begins with K and Cpt_Obvious a few weeks ago. IIRC, folks were egging K on. I have no comment on the rest of what you say, but I do have something to say about dogpiling. As far as I can tell, dogpiling itself isn't against the D&D rules as listed, and IMO it shouldn't be. As long as dogpilers follow the rules, including the overall rule of "each post should say something interesting, informative, or funny", then it doesn't mean that anything about how D&D works is wrong or bad, it just means that an opinion is unpopular and needs to be defended or conceded. A dogpile post that's nothing but "me too" or a flame is worthless, against D&D rules, and deserves a probe. But if the dogpile post logically examines and/or rebuts part or all of an argument, then it's a good post. A dogpile post that accuses someone of supporting genocide had better justify such an extreme accusation. But if the dogpile post does make an accusation and successfully justify it, then it's a good post. A dogpile post that has something interesting, informative, or funny to say is a good post. Determining whether something is interesting, informative, or funny can be subjective and difficult. That's why being a mod, or even an IK, is hard.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:23
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Esran posted:I don't want to get into either Xinjiang or the Holodomor, except to say that even if you firmly believe that both of these are genocides, you need to understand that this is not an uncontroversial viewpoint. That there is a genocide happening in Israel is pretty much only contested by Israel and maybe the US, and I don't think you disagree with it either. Neither do most of the people posting in the I/P thread, but some of the people posting there don't believe that the other two events are genocides. I'm not going to get into Xinjiang because that would be comparing cultural genocide (with murder) to the mass murder and mass displacement genocide happening in Palestine right now. However, you're leaving out some things in your summary of the Holodomor. It is absolutely a settled question that the Holodomor was a MAN-MADE famine, and that Russia stole food and even cookware from Ukraine, causing millions of Ukrainians to starve to death. The Holodomor was a mass slaughter, similar to how what is happening in Palestine right now is a mass slaughter, whether one gets nitpicky about the term "genocide" or not. Victar fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 16, 2024 19:28
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Koos Group posted:This is also not relevant to D&D moderation in any way that is obvious to me. I guess the only relevance to D&D modding is that it's extremely frustrating to deal with shifting definitions, especially when the definition of "genocide" gets shifted around. The I/P thread appears to have the consensus that Palestinian suffering prior to October 7th qualifies as genocide even though the Palestinian population was increasing. I agree with this consensus and I was under the impression that Esran agreed too, based on their I/P posts. (And yes, this is something that only someone who regularly reads the I/P thread would know.) If Palestinian suffering prior to October 7th is defined as genocide then the Holodomor (millions starved to death through a man-made famine and stealing food) fits the definition. If the Holodomor doesn't fit a nitpicky textbook definition of genocide, then Palestinian suffering prior to October 7th also doesn't fit the nitpicky textbook definition of genocide. So claiming that it's "not uncontroversial" to call the Holodomor a genocide, given the current consensus in the I/P thread is... I don't know how to put it into words. I want to assume good faith, like D&D rules say, or possibly ignorance of basic Holodomor information available on Wikipedia. As you point out, my reaction to the cognitive dissonance resulted in a post that doesn't have anything directly to do with D&D moderation... but what is the appropriate response here? Just leave it alone? Report it? Esran's post didn't seem reportable to me. Shifting definitions around is against D&D rules, but it could have come from ignorance of the Holodomor. Victar fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 16, 2024 19:55
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