|
Finished episode six. Real dip in quality. Vault 4 seemed like it'd be a lot of fun but it's just entirely "happy place but don't go behind the closed door" cliche with no time left for any actual character or interest. Goggins continues to be charismatic, but his storyline really just feels like a lesser re-tread on The Man in Black from WestWorld. Entorwellian posted:This was my biggest gripe with the show at first, too. I've just learned to turn my mind off to it and enjoy things. Yeah, probably need to do the same. It's frustrating because the first three ep's were very solid and had a lot of potential. CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Apr 25, 2024 |
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 21:10 |
|
|
Entorwellian posted:This was my biggest gripe with the show at first, too. I've just learned to turn my mind off to it and enjoy things. I don’t understand the first complaint at all, but the second one seems really suspect. The show begins with Lucy describing why she’d be a good marriage candidate, and this includes her listing her skill and familiarity with guns. The vault dwellers are obviously naive but it’s not a case of a wide eyed (lol) youth discovering that the world is dangerous. She doesn’t go from oh no I could never shoot someone to a hardened mercenary in the blink of a few episodes. They take the time to show that she is skilled but a bit dewy due to isolation. It didn’t take me out of the show that she’s a quick study, like, at all. And it further deepens the story because we see how she and Norm were brought up with good values, and that is contrasted against her dad’s depraved behavior. He raised good kids even though he couldn’t live up to his own standards (because he’s a corpo at heart).
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 00:54
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:Finished episode six. Real dip in quality. Vault 4 seemed like it'd be a lot of fun but it's just entirely "happy place but don't go behind the closed door" cliche with no time left for any actual character or interest. I’m sorry, how is it a cliche? It seems to me that they successfully subverted the cliche there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 00:57
|
|
|
Enderzero posted:I’m sorry, how is it a cliche? It seems to me that they successfully subverted the cliche there. They're only up to episode six, pretty sure all the subversion stuff happens ep 7. Shhh dr_rat fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 01:00
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:They're only up to episode six, pretty sure all the subversion stuff happens ep 7. Shhh Fair enough! I did read Wikipedia episode descriptions to ensure I wasn’t spoiling them before I posted - but I didn’t check against the actual videos. apologies if I got it wrong. I might not have though - their critiques have been….interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 01:11
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:Landing somewhere in the camp of "Real Good Schlock" to me. Better than American Horror Story, but not really great. It's very video-gamey with stim packs and an apparent army of janitors that can clean a vault in 24 hours. Several people have complained about the cleanup of Vault 32, but it's explained in Episode 8: We find out that the leader of Vault 31 is a brain on a roomba (a device specifically for cleaning).
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 01:41
|
|
|
I think the video gameyness critique is not wrong but it misses how the creators cannily chose their setting. They took the over the top Americana spirit from the 50s and made games that melded the inherent gameyness of a game with the setting. Of course stimpaks heal you in a ridiculous manner - in the 50s people were optimistic that that would come to pass! Life altering injury to a leg? No problem we can either install some heavy hardware (imagine lugging a metal leg around in real terms), or we have a simple injection that heals it! They hide the abstractions necessary to create a game (I have an exact HP count and when it runs out I’m dead!) in the setting and use it to squash some of the dissonance that occurs when playing a game with its simulations and abstractions. I think it’s a clever achievement - how often have we watched shows where they shrug off crippling injuries? - and make it work with the overall world they created.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 01:55
|
|
|
Hah, well lesson learned about live posting. Subversion of that cliche was indeed charming, but idk. It's like the scene where a farmer(?) comes home to see Walter Goggins eating meat and asks where his daughter is. It's not just shot but also edited over the top to imply he ate the girl, but then she comes out and he goes "tsk tsk, can you imagine." It wasn't a surprise, so it felt like filling space for the sake of a cheap thrill. Will reserve other thoughts til I actually finish the dang thing! Enderzero posted:their critiques have been….interesting. I get the impression you mis-read my complaint as a Mary-Sue thing. Her kicking rear end is great, as is the plucky "Okey Dokey" energy, dig all that. Just found some of the adaption to the surface world uneven. Consequence of coming to this from Shogun, admittedly. The video-gameness of it is also done fine. Laughed at the cgi of wounds re-mending, but in a good way. Better to own it like this than dwell or try to over explain it. "In this world you can fix a week-long smashed foot with an injection of magic from a crazy chicken fucker." is exactly how you do it. CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:02
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:I get the impression you mis-read my complaint as a Mary-Sue thing. Her kicking rear end is great, as is the plucky "Okey Dokey" energy, dig all that. Just found some of the adaption to the surface world uneven. Consequence of coming to this from Shogun, admittedly. Heh, glad you got to see they they aren’t just going with weak sci-fi cliches. I thought the lead farmer scene was well done but they definitely set it up to be a just so situation - and milk maximum drama out of it. Shogun is so good I suspect anything looks poorly in comparison. Keep giving it a shot, I think they mostly nailed the vibe! Edit: saw your edit. I think you’re getting the vibe now! It’s certainly not perfect, I’ll give you that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:06
|
|
|
lol they put Kyle McLaughlin in a final boss mech suit
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:21
|
|
|
Final episode spoiler I know they had alot on their minds but how they miss Hank putting on a dead dude's powerarmor while in the same room?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:28
|
|
|
Falukorv posted:Final episode spoiler I know they had alot on their minds but how they miss Hank putting on a dead dude's powerarmor while in the same room? Sneak 100
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:36
|
|
|
Dopilsya posted:Several people have complained about the cleanup of Vault 32, but it's explained in Episode 8: We find out that the leader of Vault 31 is a brain on a roomba (a device specifically for cleaning). Norm literally congratulates the overseer on how well she ran the cleanup of vault 32...
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:54
|
|
|
Ok finished it. Still hold that the first episodes had a lot of potential that the subsequent episodes kind of squander. Just feel like a lot of this show is "safe filler." i.e. scenes that could be in any show, like The Ghoul fake-out I mentioned earlier, or the beat where Lucy picks up a gun and they edit it like she's about to shoot Coop...... but actually killed her skeleton mother. Would have liked another Vault, or more quirk like the chicken fucker potion con-man. Fred Armisen as a music aficionado master trap-setter was great, wish they had cut more filler and added more flavor like that. The last battle in particular was a huge let down. We got to meet all of one freedom fighter,, sans Mother of Flame's fans in the vault. On the otherside, The Brotherhood is also mostly nameless goons, so watching them smash into each other was kind of excessive and "meh". I'm not sure a shot of blood splashing on some corn added much. Felt like they included it to distract from the finale actually being characters largely just standing in a room together, with theater-play energy of "Kyle exit stage left as squire enters stage right". Am left wanting more, but mostly because it wasn't quite a full meal. They nailed a lot of elements, but just played it too safe. Doesn't help that Last of Us is also in the rear window and blows this out of the water. Put it on par with American Horror Story as "enjoyable enough watch" kind of show. Ep1-4 Amazing Ep5-6 Eh Ep7-8 Pretty good
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 02:56
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:The last battle in particular was a huge let down. We got to meet all of one freedom fighter,, sans Mother of Flame's fans in the vault. On the otherside, The Brotherhood is also mostly nameless goons, so watching them smash into each other was kind of excessive and "meh". I'm not sure a shot of blood splashing on some corn added much. Felt like they included it to distract from the finale actually being characters largely just standing in a room together, with theater-play energy of "Kyle exit stage left as squire enters stage right". ending battle was at least 3x better than the hospital rampage at the end of thousands. They totally botched it
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:00
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:The last battle in particular was a huge let down. We got to meet all of one freedom fighter,, sans Mother of Flame's fans in the vault. On the otherside, The Brotherhood is also mostly nameless goons, so watching them smash into each other was kind of excessive and "meh". The firefight between the Brotherhood and the NCR was in fact hilarious, because it was classic hollywood superhero EVERYONE RUNS AT EACH OTHER! except they have guns, so it's even more comical. Like people running at each other and shooting and getting wiped out left and right because you don't do a gun fight by running at each other. It's an extremely lazy way to shoot that scene -- you don't have to actually have any sense of what's going on, just get everyone running at each other in the master and then cut to little vignettes of people shooting each other at extreme close range. CatstropheWaitress posted:On episode five. It's enjoyable, but some cracks are showing - the intrigue plot in the vault got way, waaaay dumber with the [spoiler]Vault 31 election slogan reveal. One thing that jumped out at me after watching -- how did the clean up Vault 32 so fast if there's only like three people in the conspiracy??? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:02
|
|
|
Maybe they have a bunch of Mr Handys stashed somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:06
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:Norm literally congratulates the overseer on how well she ran the cleanup of vault 32... I don't think he really knows how she did it or anything. My guess is the goons in police gear who stop that council guy from staying in 33
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:11
|
|
|
Rubellavator posted:I don't think he really knows how she did it or anything. My guess is the goons in police gear who stop that council guy from staying in 33 If he's congratulating her it's because it was a semi public project
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:17
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:ending battle was at least 3x better than the hospital rampage at the end of thousands. They totally botched it You're entitled to that opinion, but in Last of Us (Thousands?) you go into the scene knowing where everyone is coming from and it's a gut punch watching the hero of the story go in and murder a bunch of people who are trying to save the world and not for nefarious purposes.. Here, there's some comedy in that the Brotherhood at least seems to just be a much of mooks following orders, but they never have Flame Mother explain why free energy saves the day while everything is still in shambles. There's a lot of platitudes about "free energy will solve everything"... but will it? Are there actually people in all those homes? Sure seemed desolate beforehand? Spectacle without heart, more or less. Which, thankfully is made up for by Lucy meeting and casting her dad away, which is the more important bit anyway. quote:One thing that jumped out at me after watching -- how did the clean up Vault 32 so fast if there's only like three people in the conspiracy??? My head canon is they have a small team of janitors in Vault 31 that they unfreeze to do this once every three years and then they goes right back in the cryo-chamber. Question on Vault 32: Was discovering the Overseer was a Manager really cause for everyone to go crazy and kill eachother? That felt under-explained and in hindsight given the reveal. Did they spew funny gas in there to wipe the slate clean for the next manager? CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:19
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:Question on Vault 32: Pretty sure the implication on what happened in Vault 32 is that the inhabitants somehow found out the truth about vault 31, started trying to break in, and the management response was to pump "go crazy and kill each other or suicide" gas into Vault 32 to shut down the nascent rebellion. During the flashback where Coop listens in on the secret corporate meeting there is an explicit mention of experimenting with psychotropic gases in vaults to influence behavior, so probably safe to assume that vault-tec had been doing some mkultra poo poo over the centuries and decided to deploy it in case of emergency. Just finished the series and enjoyed it a lot, albeit as someone who has never played any of the games. Getting Goggins definitely went a long way but honestly all of the casting for the principal roles was solid. Agree that Max is basically Finn redux but Moten's performance is really good - showing those moments where he is struggling morally with certain decisions lands really well and lends some really necessary character development. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:45
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:Hah, well lesson learned about live posting. Subversion of that cliche was indeed charming, but idk. It's like the scene where a farmer(?) comes home to see Walter Goggins eating meat and asks where his daughter is. It's not just shot but also edited over the top to imply he ate the girl, but then she comes out and he goes "tsk tsk, can you imagine." It’s a microcosm of his character you think he’s the worst person in the world and ~surprise~ turns out he’s not what you thought he was
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:47
|
|
|
I just think it's funny that Norm is in fact shorter than the norm I don't know if that was an intended pun but I will die on this hill that it is
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 03:53
|
|
|
I’ve only played fallout 1, so I’m basically a non-gamer watcher, and while the show was pretty good it suffers from something I’ve seen in a lot of video game adaptations, where key elements from the game are more or less assumed to already be understood. I liked the brotherhood a lot, it was VERY 40k and probably the best depiction of power armor I’ve seen on the screen yet. I didn’t quite get what they were all about though. Is it just the remnants of the us army that have now turned to monasticism for some reason? What’s in it for them? Don’t they need a gothic cyber-cathedral instead of lovely disused barrack sets? I’d have liked to have seen more there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 04:28
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:The firefight between the Brotherhood and the NCR was in fact hilarious, because it was classic hollywood superhero EVERYONE RUNS AT EACH OTHER! except they have guns, so it's even more comical. Like people running at each other and shooting and getting wiped out left and right because you don't do a gun fight by running at each other. It's an extremely lazy way to shoot that scene -- you don't have to actually have any sense of what's going on, just get everyone running at each other in the master and then cut to little vignettes of people shooting each other at extreme close range. This is actually a clever and subtle reference to the fact that enemy AI in the Gamebryo Fallout games is notoriously stupid and large battles inevitably devolve into people running up and shooting each other at point blank range.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 04:28
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:It’s a microcosm of his character you think he’s the worst person in the world and ~surprise~ turns out he’s not what you thought he was Except we already know he isn't so it's just kind of dawdling until she comes out. quote:I liked the brotherhood a lot, it was VERY 40k and probably the best depiction of power armor I’ve seen on the screen yet. I didn’t quite get what they were all about though. Is it just the remnants of the us army that have now turned to monasticism for some reason? What’s in it for them? Don’t they need a gothic cyber-cathedral instead of lovely disused barrack sets? I’d have liked to have seen more there. Agree on all counts here. Loved how it was shown to be a tremendous weapon, but not without limits that felt kind of realistic. Maximus was a great character. I liked how he was kinda stupid, but in the specific ways someone growing up in a militaristic cult probably would be. Lionizing a philosophy that's clearly geared towards making squires cool with being canaries and knowledgable about how you would survive in the wastes, but not much beyond that. Actor played that super well. CatstropheWaitress fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 04:42
|
|
|
Yea, if they decide to do Power Armor in a 40k series, they have a starting place. Though 40k power armor is meant to be much more fluid and natural in motions because marines are literally created to be inside the armor. At the end [spoiler] You can hear Hank getting into the armor in the background[spoiler] Also about repopulating Vault 32, the guy who lost the election that wants to nope out of it, he's clearly afraid of SOMETHING in the vault. Maybe he's just worried that everyone will go crazy and kill each other again, or because he was on the 33 council, he knows what they were doing in there. Its probably the former, as the experiment is the same for the 3 vaults. My mom was wondering how Siggi knew all about Lucy and her vault. He's with the enclave and they are shadowy and evil, but why would they have knowlage that specific?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 04:59
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:If he's congratulating her it's because it was a semi public project He's congratulating her on how quickly she pulled the coverup on the vault being filled with corpses. She knows that he and Chet went into the vault, and he knows that she knows, so he took the chance to poke at her. He didn't have to witness her handing out mops and paint buckets to know that she was at least partially responsible for that horror show getting literally painted over (the paint is still wet!).
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 04:59
|
|
|
Yeah, it's hilarious how clumsy guns could be in the hands of power armored troops. It really solidified that the Brotherhood's technological superiority has enormous flaws. twistedmentat posted:Also about repopulating Vault 32, the guy who lost the election that wants to nope out of it, he's clearly afraid of SOMETHING in the vault. Maybe he's just worried that everyone will go crazy and kill each other again, or because he was on the 33 council, he knows what they were doing in there. Its probably the former, as the experiment is the same for the 3 vaults. To me that was more just indicative of the guy not wanting the status quo to change. Even under the cover story of "raiders killed vault 32", I can't imagine the average vault-dweller even with all the social conditioning they undergo to be all that comfortable with living there immediately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 06:35
|
|
|
https://x.com/hideo_kojima_en/status/1778801475902448022?s=46 Starting to think Kojima likes actors more than he likes movies/shows, and mainly loves movies/shows because they have actors in them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 06:49
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:Flame Mother explain why free energy saves the day while everything is still in shambles. There's a lot of platitudes about "free energy will solve everything"... but will it? Are there actually people in all those homes? Sure seemed desolate beforehand? If you are trying to rebuild society, having a lot of energy available for no cost would be very useful. If you want to be pedantic worrying about structural integrity would be a thing but in other games people from the brotherhood talk about how people shouldn't be cowering and living in a stadium instead of the orc filled buildings. Its a cool set up for the next series in the NCR areas and how the brotherhood would deal with it given that one of their goals is to control technology. Moldaver even says that to Maximus at the end. twistedmentat posted:
The chubby election loser doesn't want to go to vault 33 because hes leaving behind his old life and move an interminable distance away. Change is hard and for people who lived in a vault for their entire life, they are losing pretty much everything. Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 07:28
|
|
|
Argas posted:
Tankbuster posted:
Yeah the point was that the people being selected to go to 33 weren't the best suited to adapt to change, the Overseer was getting rid of people she didn't want, breaking up Chet and Norm, etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 07:51
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:https://x.com/hideo_kojima_en/status/1778801475902448022?s=46 Does she even know who he is? I don't know if she's into video games, I know she said she played a bit of the fallout games to get an idea of what they are like, but has she played Metal Gear or Death Stranding? This is kind of a funny dynamic where nerds are all "Wow, Kojima likes Fallout?" and she's all "Some Japanese guy likes me." Also, I get the idea that he definitely just likes actors. Dan Ryckert of various gaming media outlets loves action guy movies and thought Kojima loved them too because of his games and the things he talks about. Dan interviewed Kojima and tried to talk about action movies and Kojima was pretty much "Yes, action movies exist."
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 08:06
|
|
|
you could definitely see the pop transfer as a purge. The chubby dude was interested in reintegrating the raiders/ncr blokes into vault dwellers. Anyone who was into the idea got shifted to vault 32.
Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 08:39
|
|
|
CatstropheWaitress posted:You're entitled to that opinion, but in Last of Us (Thousands?) you go into the scene knowing where everyone is coming from and it's a gut punch watching the hero of the story go in and murder a bunch of people who are trying to save the world and not for nefarious purposes.. Here, there's some comedy in that the Brotherhood at least seems to just be a much of mooks following orders, but they never have Flame Mother explain why free energy saves the day while everything is still in shambles. There's a lot of platitudes about "free energy will solve everything"... but will it? Are there actually people in all those homes? Sure seemed desolate beforehand? Agreed, it should have been a gut punch in TLoU. Instead, it seems the blocking was done by the dude that does Steven Seagal flicks. Schubalts posted:He's congratulating her on how quickly she pulled the coverup on the vault being filled with corpses. She knows that he and Chet went into the vault, and he knows that she knows, so he took the chance to poke at her. He didn't have to witness her handing out mops and paint buckets to know that she was at least partially responsible for that horror show getting literally painted over (the paint is still wet!). Seems a bad read, given that Norm is generally cowardly in the face of authority. Doubt he'd be playing coy like that. Ramrod Hotshot posted:I’ve only played fallout 1, so I’m basically a non-gamer watcher, and while the show was pretty good it suffers from something I’ve seen in a lot of video game adaptations, where key elements from the game are more or less assumed to already be understood. They've got the same core objectives, in theory, as they had in FO1: Prevent the development, spread and use of world ending tech. In theory. BrotherJayne fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 08:46
|
|
|
Norm goes from being a disinterested kid who wants to game, to winding up alone with chet and then starting the process of unravelling what happened in vault 32. Betty knows that hes suspicious of something so she disarms him by moving chet over to vault 32 with steph and their kid.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 08:50
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:
Uh, Norm goes on a bit of a character journey over the course of the season. This is literally his arc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 08:54
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Uh, Norm goes on a bit of a character journey over the course of the season. This is literally his arc. he's grows plenty bold out of sight... is there a single instance of him standing up to a present authority? I guess it could have been his sole act of open rebellion or some such, but it's not in line with the rest of his behavior imho. Anyhow, the alternative is she somehow had a super secret cleanup crew or unseen vault 31 cleanup bots or some poo poo
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 08:59
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:he's grows plenty bold out of sight... is there a single instance of him standing up to a present authority? The finale?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 09:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 21:10 |
|
|
Alchenar posted:The finale? when he literally snuck off while Betty was occupied? Or something else
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 09:01
|
|