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the democrats have acted in concerted fashion, along with several intelligence agencies, to crush any sort of socialist or leftist movement forming for the last 90 years in america. that's why garland saying "vote!/start winning elections!" shows his ignorance of the actual political history of america. the institutional forces arrayed against leftist organizing and electoral success are a lot stronger than most people understand. democrats being elected is not a guarantee of any actual "leftward" movement politically or institutionally, and often means more movement to the right. centrism, is, essentially: the problems are bad... but the causes are very, very good
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Apr 23, 2024 21:06
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veni veni veni posted:I'd be more sympathetic to the people calling him stupid if the left was actually capable of literally anything other than bickering online with fellow shut ins. Have you considered, like, reading a book?
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Apr 23, 2024 21:58
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ex post facho posted:the democrats have acted in concerted fashion, along with several intelligence agencies, to crush any sort of socialist or leftist movement forming for the last 90 years in america. that's why garland saying "vote!/start winning elections!" shows his ignorance of the actual political history of america. the institutional forces arrayed against leftist organizing and electoral success are a lot stronger than most people understand. democrats being elected is not a guarantee of any actual "leftward" movement politically or institutionally, and often means more movement to the right. "Alex Garland is a simpleton idiot who isn't accounting for political realities. Anyway, I can boil down this ideology to a funny tweet from 2014" is the ultimate expression of how a lot of this works. I genuinely am not making GBS threads on you, thank you for being so illustrative.
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Apr 23, 2024 22:01
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Garland has now started a Civil War between goons.
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Apr 23, 2024 22:13
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i figured it out. being reductive about centrism is what ultimately caused the Civil War. now i know how California and Texas were allies
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Apr 23, 2024 22:52
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veni veni veni posted:I'd be more sympathetic to the people calling him stupid if the left was actually capable of literally anything other than bickering online with fellow shut ins. this explains so much about your posts in this thread it’s unreal
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Apr 24, 2024 00:01
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The true point of the movie is the civil wars we made along the way.
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Apr 24, 2024 01:05
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Pirate Jet posted:this explains so much about your posts in this thread it’s unreal My other posts didn’t do that?
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Apr 24, 2024 01:13
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I’m pretty sure this movie is responsible for the terrible nightmares I’ve had this week. Something about the violence portrayed in this bothered me a lot more than other movies. Also, just a question about the ending. Does Lee taking any photos in DC?
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Apr 24, 2024 03:24
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ghostwritingduck posted:Also, just a question about the ending. Does Lee taking any photos in DC? Yes. There may be others I don't remember, but at the very least she takes multiple of those "run past the open doorway taking a picture as you go" shots. The technique Jessie tries to copy, leading to Lee's sacrifice.
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Apr 24, 2024 08:06
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I have to agree with Will from Chapo Trap House, there was something really cathartic seeing all those Evil President staffers get mown down in while imaging “that’s John Kirby, that’s Mathew Miller,” and so on.
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Apr 26, 2024 22:41
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Nucleic Acids posted:I have to agree with Will from Chapo Trap House, there was something really cathartic seeing all those Evil President staffers get mown down in while imaging “that’s John Kirby, that’s Mathew Miller,” and so on. Which episode do they talk about the movie in?
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Apr 26, 2024 23:28
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veni veni veni posted:Which episode do they talk about the movie in? the latest one. they are generally down on it except the last 30 minutes which is a fair enough take
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Apr 26, 2024 23:30
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Just saw it in IMAX yesterday. Amazing movie, will watch again for sure. I've only just started looking but I have yet to read any persuasive criticism of it. Everything so far is either the usual tactical realism idiocy, or people upset that the movie isn't sufficiently ideological.
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Apr 26, 2024 23:56
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Seldom Posts posted:Just saw it in IMAX yesterday. Amazing movie, will watch again for sure. What did you like about it?
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Apr 27, 2024 03:21
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Saw in IMAX a week back and the sound quality was there. It makes me really happy when folks poo poo on it for not getting political because they just oust themselves as wanting a us vs them wank flick. There's plenty of reasons to roll your eyes at the movie that isn't that. Kirsten Dunst's character was the weakest link and her dying at the end felt really forced for me to feel something.
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Apr 27, 2024 03:26
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Drewsky posted:i was really trying to hang in there with him but pod save america appearance may be a bridge too far for me Yeah I'm watching it right now and there was an interpretation about this I could kinda square with the contrast of what the US government is doing right now in Yemen and Palestine plus how much the IDF loves smoking journalists but knowing that "GO VOTE" was what Garland was going for is  Whenever it focused on the journalists and the moral conflict of that it was much better but it felt like every time it touched out to the extended world it gets more and more confused in what the gently caress it's saying. maruhkati posted:Kamala at least recognizes that we didn't just fall out of the coconut tree. The war in Civil War seems to have no material basis that could be remotely plausible. That version of the movie I think would have been way more coherent, at least if it was about western journalists and war tourist types. meat police posted:Saw in IMAX a week back and the sound quality was there. It makes me really happy when folks poo poo on it for not getting political because they just oust themselves as wanting a us vs them wank flick. There's plenty of reasons to roll your eyes at the movie that isn't that. Kirsten Dunst's character was the weakest link and her dying at the end felt really forced for me to feel something. Seldom Posts posted:Just saw it in IMAX yesterday. Amazing movie, will watch again for sure. I disagree. The movie is totally infused with the political and ideological, it's just made weaker than it could have been because the writing tried to not be "political" lacks self awareness of it's own politics. War by nature is an extremely political act, and making a movie about a war is going to have some sort of political message no matter how much they try to pretend there isn't. I cannot think of a war movie set in the real world of the last 100 years that isn't deeply political It's frankly kinda absurd and feels a bit dismissive to claim this movie is not "ideological" or "political" when everyone is talking about it as a warning and the director is running around the centrist podcast circuit telling everyone that it's important to vote while interviewed about this movie. Android Apocalypse posted:The fact the Western Alliance seemed to have the entire USAF fleet of F-22 Raptors (there's less than 200 in service right now & production stopped in 2011) is another one of those As someone who was in the military you have to do a lot of suspension of disbelief when it comes to the vehicles used here, it's clearly based on what vehicles are "iconic" to untrained eyes rather than realism and what vehicles would be easy to get a hand-me-downs for real plus CGI in some actual up to date or heavier stuff, which is fine in a movie like this I think. But like for example, every side seems to be equipped with only technicals and humvees plus 5 tons/HEMETs/MTVs alongside full blown tanks and F-22s, and there isn't an IFV/APC or even an MRAP in sight with rare exception that are clearly borrowed from police departments. Also seeing a CH-47 landing nearby a bunch of people chilling a few meters away without bracing or getting every rock and pebble flung into their face or a gunship ripping cannon fire into DC with nav lights on made me lol. But like all the stuff is dumb to care about or think it reflect badly on the movie as a movie unless "realism" is integral in some sort of way that it isn't here. If anything I think this movie attempted to be WAY too grounded in the lore of it's world as I was talking about above and let that distract from the story about the journalists and war journalism. Well I'm seeing them use mortars heavily with actual combined arms to support the special forces group trying to get the president in the last assault which is actually a rare moment of more "realistic" military stuff. Well I think the lovely torrent I downloaded ended before the actual ending. Lol. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 27, 2024 |
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Apr 27, 2024 18:20
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moments.
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I don't think it's even remotely confused about what it's saying.
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Apr 27, 2024 20:39
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veni veni veni posted:I don't think it's even remotely confused about what it's saying. Okay, care to enlighten us?
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Apr 27, 2024 23:33
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God drat this movie was terrible. The attempt to not say anything meant there were no stakes, so the libidinal adrenaline chasing was the only plausible justification for anything that happened. But the movie’s text/subtext is very clearly communicating that that is BAD, so the movie just says nothing at all.
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Apr 28, 2024 00:51
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Butter Activities posted:Okay, care to enlighten us? I've talked about it in the thread already, but I guess I could expand on it. It's kind of hard to articulate in a way that isn't super loaded, because I feel like the mindset of a lot of people on this site is one of the things this movie is explicitly making GBS threads on. When I saw the first trailer for this movie it felt obvious that it was going to A. Skirt around ideology and B. goons were gonna hate that. I think a lot of the problems this country has goes way beyond ideology. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong . I don't think "both sides have a point" or any bullshit like that. Clearly we have a lot of politicians, bad faith grifters,"gurus" etc. trying to literally take rights away from people, steal elections etc. and it's very worrying. I'm not saying it's something to just shrug off. I'm also not saying I have the solution, because I don't. I don't think everyone "should just talk it out" or whatever, and I don't think that is what the movie is trying to say either. I don't think it's trying to offer explicit solutions at all. I think it's just trying to visualize the worst case scenario for something a lot of people are worried about right now. That might not sit well with some, but I think it's pretty effective. My evidence of this is that it's resonated with every single person I've talked to that isn't a goon. The press it's gotten also seems to indicate that it's been the same for a lot of people. I think a lot of people are scared of the way modern discourse is heading and how bad it's gonna get. Civil War taps into that. The problem is that a lot of people on SA absolutely get off on the division. It's their daily entertainment. I am not pointing at anyone specific itt. I don't know enough about any of you to say that, but I do see every single day what a toxic, gawking echo chamber this site has become. Whether or not I agree with said people is irrelevant. People who just doom scroll all day and get lost in political obsessions are going off the deep end and turning it into this sports team mentality that I personally find really lovely. I think the reason some people on here hate it so much is that the movie treats your Trump voting uncle as a human and an equal not not some enemy to be destroyed. And if it's not alienating the others that you hate, it just has nothing to say. It's also apparently "cowardly" despite managing to piss of half of this thread. Division and outrage is being weaponized by the media against all of us, regardless of what we believe. I think it's not only good but essential that the film blurs a lot of lines. It's a horror movie meant to scare those of us that are worried about division in America, which is honestly most loving people. But how do you discuss that on a website that is mostly full of people who seem to really enjoy that poo poo and feed off it? I dunno. I can say it resonated with me, and the fact that I can have a civil conversation irl about the movie with my Trump voting uncle and find that we have a lot of the same fears makes it really effective. I've seen and experienced people finding a common ground with this movie multiple times now. I think it's a movie that's meant to call into question how we communicate and how it's becoming a huge problem in itself. Sure there are some broader issues like fascist president or whatever, but that's never really the focus. It's about the rest of us who would have to live in this mess.
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Apr 28, 2024 02:15
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If you and your right wing uncle have the same fears and what not about the state of the country and the risks of impending violence or societal breakdown or whatever, but his fears drive him to support Trump and/or whatever junior fascists, white supremacists, evangelical zealots, etc that have hitched their wagon to Trump then the lines aren't really that blurry then are they? Ideological differences seem pretty clear when you look at it like that yeah? Agreed, conservatives are humans and equals and all that but they want to turn this country into even more of a segregated theocratic hellhole than it already is, and if they can't admit that's what they support then they're either a liar or an idiot. Handwring all you like about division and breakdowns in communication and echo chambers and whatever as the root cause but there are real ideological divides in this country that are right now having material consequences for millions of people who are living through some poo poo that is as bad as the "worst case scenario" you think this movie displays, if not worse. Come the gently caress on. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 02:37
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I would point out from the sideline that part of the reason people are making fun of that message is that there has been race, class, location, religious and ideological strife since the foundation of the country. You could probably lockdown down a few random decades when poo poo was calm enough. But John Adams had a street team dedicated to saying that Jefferson was a secret atheist and that there would be sex workers preaching from the pulpits if Jefferson was president. "We're more divided than we've ever been and we need to focus on what brings us together" is a pretty silly politics 101 take, which is why people are poking fun if that's really all Garland had to say.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:07
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I am giving actual real life examples of people with different ideologies finding common ground over a shared fear. If your take is that it doesn't matter because it's "politics 101" maybe your priorities are hosed up and you are mostly just concerned with looking smart online vs anything tangible.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:26
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What common ground did you find? That he isn't a literal ball of hatred firing a gun into the air? Did you need a movie to tell you that? And what was the point of finding that "common ground?" Did it help anything? I've had a lot of these types of conversations when "I don't really follow politics" doesn't get someone to gently caress off. They don't really change much, people just like to bullshit and not change their mind. Did you need a movie to help you understand that people aren't like ghosts or dogs who just do things arbitrarily? Because yes, people having reasons for their beliefs is Politics 101. Lol.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:34
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Thanks for being completely insufferable. I feel like it really helps me articulate what I was trying to get at. Anyways I am sure you are really making a difference out there advanced politics-man. Once a bunch of shut ins have argued enough online and hit maximum rage I'm sure all of the worlds problems will be solved.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:51
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The real civil war is the goons we met along the way.
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Apr 28, 2024 03:54
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veni veni veni posted:Thanks for being completely insufferable. I feel like it really helps me articulate what I was trying to get at. You seem weirdly obvious with Twitter leftists. People in this thread already pointed out what real politics stuff is going on. It's a neat time for labor at the very least. I'm not sure what you're going on about. Stop reading Twitter Maoists I guess?
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Apr 28, 2024 03:59
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veni veni veni posted:People who just doom scroll all day and get lost in political obsessions are going off the deep end and turning it into this sports team mentality that I personally find really lovely. I think the reason some people on here hate it so much is that the movie treats your Trump voting uncle as a human and an equal not not some enemy to be destroyed. And if it's not alienating the others that you hate, it just has nothing to say. It's also apparently "cowardly" despite managing to piss of half of this thread. Division and outrage is being weaponized by the media against all of us, regardless of what we believe. SuperMechagodzilla posted:What if mean tweets were the Death Note?
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Apr 28, 2024 04:04
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veni veni veni posted:I am giving actual real life examples of people with different ideologies finding common ground over a shared fear. If your take is that it doesn't matter because it's "politics 101" maybe your priorities are hosed up and you are mostly just concerned with looking smart online vs anything tangible. What tangible positive changes resulted from all your conversations with Trump voters? Did they decide to no longer support right wing causes? Did they donate money to abortion funds? Maybe join that local SURJ chapter or BDS working group? Are they planning to vote for Biden this year? Or did those conversations achieve nothing beyond placating you and reinforcing a misguided belief that all this country really needs is more bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle to solve all of its myriad ills? Yeah I can see why you loved this movie. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 04:15
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You keep suggesting that finding common ground is worthless while offering absolutely nothing yourself. Did it change his entire worldview? No. But I have had multiple conversations with him that i believe have de-radicalized him a somewhat since he went off on some crazy Jan 6 rant years ago. I know the idea of finding common ground with "the enemy" is wildly unpopular here but honestly most of you guys are weird as gently caress. No one I know outside of here acts like goons so it's hard to talk about things here like I would with a normal person.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:35
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Finding common ground has value in that it can be personally edifying, which is what you've asserted was what you got out of the experience. Occasionally it can also be the impetus for someone engaging in political education that they would have otherwise disdained, and as a result distinctly changing their political actions. What I'm asking is, did it have a material outcome that would address the fears that you and your uncle share about the direction this country is headed in? If so, what were they and how can you be so certain to attribute those changes to those conversations?Because it sounds like the answer is no. Which is fine but you have to be aware that just because something has value to you doesn't make it politically important or significant. That's not how this works.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:43
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Is it true there’s no Mexicans in this movie, like, at all?
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Apr 28, 2024 04:59
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No Mexicans. They were smart to stay out of the conflict.
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Apr 28, 2024 05:03
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Mat Cauthon posted:What I'm asking is, did it have a material outcome that would address the fears that you and your uncle share about the direction this country is headed in? If so, what were they and how can you be so certain to attribute those changes to those conversations?Because it sounds like the answer is no. Which is fine but you have to be aware that just because something has value to you doesn't make it politically important or significant. That's not how this works. I think it really depends on how you look at it. It did not have the material outcome that you are demanding of me, but my worldview as I get older is much more focused on what I can control vs what i cannot. In the grand scheme of things, my uncle becoming slightly less radicalized probably doesn't matter at all, but I think it does help in some small way. it's at least something I can have an effect on. I know it's very unpopular here to suggest that finding common ground is a good thing or even possible but I think that is ridiculous. Now tell me what you are doing that is politically important and significant since that seems to be your main thing here.
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Apr 28, 2024 05:14
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First off: lol. And then: lol. With that out of the way, let's be crystal clear: civil war is a right-wing objective. There's absolutely zero question as to which faction wishes to start a second civil war in the United States. There is consequently no issue with 'polarization', as there is only one 'pole'. What you identify as a "sports team mentality" is actually just a sensible response to a concerted effort by bad actors to push the overton window on white supremacism. (That's your uncle's crowd, btw.) And, to continue being clear, this is not in any way an endorsement of the 'sensibility' of the democrats. The conflict today is a conflict within liberalism, a product of its own internal contradictions. Luckily, that's precisely what makes an actual civil war incredibly unlikely. Everyone tacitly agrees that the status quo is acceptable. Idiots like Garland fantasize about a civil war, I would argue, to escape from that fact - to imagine that two poles must exist and that there are irreconcilable differences between them. That belief sustains the centrism. As he himself has stated, the existing system is fully capable of 'containing' Trumpism, mitigating its excesses. Just vote! We don't need to do much of anything at all.... SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 05:46
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To me it’s always telling that people like Garland and other so called centrists will cite “extremism on both sides” as the root of conflict, but then never really cite examples of what exactly the “extreme” left does that is equivalent to the extreme right. Even if you buy into the supposed political advantages of centrism re: votes, the idea that you need to demonize both sides to gain that advantage is bullshit. You can just spotlight the aspects of the right that should scare any rational conservative (lol) without making the left the enemy. That’s what I got out of the movie, but it’s not necessarily what Garland had in mind.
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Apr 28, 2024 06:02
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Android Apocalypse posted:No Mexicans. They were smart to stay out of the conflict. When I look around and see the lack of native Americans around my first thought is not that they were smart to stay out of it.
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Apr 28, 2024 07:04
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Mat Cauthon posted:Are they planning to vote for Biden this year? If not, that's the one thing I agree with them about
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Apr 28, 2024 09:07
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ruddiger posted:When I look around and see the lack of native Americans around my first thought is not that they were smart to stay out of it. Yeah the movie has some pretty big problems with how it represents (or doesn't represent) race and I definitely felt the spirit of what you're saying here while watching it, for various reasons. I've been really struggling how to say what I want to say about that subject in this film without underselling it or going over the top and am finding myself kind of lacking. I think I'll just say it has big Bioshock Infinite Vibes and hope people get what I'm putting down there.
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Apr 28, 2024 09:45
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