Civil War: Watch Garland start a fucking war - The Something Awful Forums

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The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Civil War: Watch Garland start a fucking war

veni veni veni: Jun 5, 2005

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

That�s rather unlikely.

You must admit that you are being extremely cagey about what you stand for aside from this generalized �concern� that people of all stripes are gonna get �echo-chambered� into doing a gun violence - which is, in reality, an exclusively right-wing phenomenon. Like, that�s who all these dumbassed lone wolves are.

And you know this.

Yet your basic repeated claim has been that leftists are �just as bad� - heightening tensions with their scary alien rhetoric or whatever. It�s all weird and insular and people just can�t understand it.

(Leftists are the ones who like culture war, and don�t care about policies, right? What is a �centrist�??).

But you know who is reasonable, relatable? Literally those who supported - and effectively continue to support - a very public and well-advertised right-wing plot to overthrow American democracy. And by opposing that, being angered by that, isn�t the loony left just pressuring them to get more violent next time?

Now, do I think this manipulation of yours is too transparent to be intentional. I think you just haven�t examined any of this at all. But drat, dude, examine it please.

No I mostly meant that you seem like a massive loser that has never interacted with another human outside of the internet. If I was in Vegas I would throw money down on you never having a single friend in your entire loving life and you earned it.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 10:00

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# ? May 22, 2024 15:36

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Whoa, looks like we got a badass over here.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 10:02

Yadoppsi: May 10, 2009

^ A hit dog will holler.

edit) Wait how about: Gentleman you can't fight here. This is the Civil War thread!

Yadoppsi fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Apr 30, 2024

# ? Apr 30, 2024 11:10

Samovar: Jun 4, 2011; I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻

Now, now, veni veni veni - consider the lesson Garland was trying to import on the audience about how peace will naturally come about it people just don't get angry!

# ? Apr 30, 2024 11:33

McSpanky: Jan 16, 2005

veni veni veni posted:

No I mostly meant that you seem like a massive loser that has never interacted with another human outside of the internet. If I was in Vegas I would throw money down on you never having a single friend in your entire loving life and you earned it.

Have you considered trying to find common ground instead of polarizing the discourse?

# ? Apr 30, 2024 12:06

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Sir Kodiak posted:

Yeah, the Civil War president disbanding the FBI is a reference to this stuff:

https://twitter.com/RepAndyBiggsAZ/status/1658202029355835414
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1668261588946542595
https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1556793230028587009

As a tool to make them a political unit to hound their enemies. Seems like the politics in this movie which is grim and wildly focused on the visceral excitement of shooting people, is pretty undeveloped.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 12:20

Android Apocalypse: Apr 28, 2009; The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE; Illegal Hen

Saw this on r/Truefilm:

u/DonovanAl07, a journalist that has covered wars posted:

I saw Civil War a few days ago, and as someone who has reported on war up close it hit me hard and stuck with me. So I thought I'd share some thoughts. From listening to some of the conversations surrounding this film, it seems that some of the film's subtleties are not so subtle if you've been a war reporter before.

First off, a little about me. I've been a journalist for just over a decade. Most of it hasn't been war journalism, and I don't plan to keep doing it (my wife would kill me herself for one thing). But when Russia invaded in Ukraine, I found myself in Ukraine shortly afterward for various reasons. Over the course of several trips, I've spent around six months reporting in Ukraine since the invasion started, most of it in and around active combat zones. So I'm not a seasoned war journalist like Lee jumping from war to war, but what I did experience was pretty damned intense.

Anyway, here's what I thought:

Watching the characters' fear in the heat of the moment brought out this visceral kind of fear in me that I have only ever felt covering combat situations. It's also a type of fear that I have trouble recollecting when I'm not there anymore. But it came out watching this movie. The war in the movie was very different from the war I covered (among other things, I mainly had to fear artillery rather than firefights), but I still felt like I knew the fear shown on the screen.

The journalists, as far as I could tell, obviously side with the Western Forces. It's made clear from the beginning that they understand that the government forces kill journalists on sight, and all journalists want groups like that to suffer. Furthermore, the fact that the Western Forces are so chill with them riding along for the big attack on the end suggests an excellent relationship between the Western Forces and the main cast. With very, very few exceptions, you simply don't get that kind of military access at war if you're seen as a fence sitter. I'm sure Lee and Joel get drinks with the Western Force's press officers in private and tell them to give the government hell.

Same goes with the Hawaiian shirt guys, whoever they are (my read is that they were local militia allied with the Western Forces). There is no way you as a reporter can walk up to a bunch of strangers in the middle of an intense battle and get invited to join them for room clearing unless they are convinced you're on their side (they probably had some way of demonstrating their sympathies, or maybe the fighters knew Lee and Joel by reputation). Also, they'd have never let them accompany them for the room clearing � for all they knew, Joel or Jessie or whoever would start panicking and get them all killed.

The thing is though, just because the journalists aren't neutral doesn't mean they aren't objective. Journalists are just like everyone else and have opinions. When you're living under war conditions, you tend to have very, very, very strong opinions. The trick to being a good journalist is checking yourself when you put out the story to make sure you're not letting your opinions get in the way of fairness and accuracy.

Jessie would be a horror to work with. I appreciated her character's presence precisely because there are tons of American kids in their early 20s running around war zones trying to make it big in journalism. I'm not saying all of them are bad, but a lot of them are reckless as hell and liable to get their colleagues killed (just like in the movie).
Lee's response to Jessie asking if she'd take a photo of her getting shot bugged me. The correct response is to assure her that she'd put the camera down and do all she could to render first aid, and then take the photo. By the way, the fact that Jessie didn't so much as check Lee for a pulse at the movie's end really made me mad at her. Those are pretty cardinal rules in war journalism.

All the journalists really should have been wearing body armor pretty much all the time while working, or when driving around in places where they knew there was a possibility of getting ambushed. They definitely should have been wearing helmets for the assault on DC. I guess the costume department was taking aesthetic license.
I'll post more take aways if any come to mind.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 12:41

Uncle Boogeyman: Jul 22, 2007

veni veni veni posted:

No I mostly meant that you seem like a massive loser that has never interacted with another human outside of the internet. If I was in Vegas I would throw money down on you never having a single friend in your entire loving life and you earned it.

and just one day away from Meltdown May

# ? Apr 30, 2024 14:45

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD: Sep 14, 2007; everything is yours

Shageletic posted:

As a tool to make them a political unit to hound their enemies. Seems like the politics in this movie which is grim and wildly focused on the visceral excitement of shooting people, is pretty undeveloped.

Yep.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 14:59

Schwarzwald: Jul 27, 2004; Don't Blink

Android Apocalypse posted:

Saw this on r/Truefilm:

quote:

Lee's response to Jessie asking if she'd take a photo of her getting shot bugged me. The correct response is to assure her that she'd put the camera down and do all she could to render first aid, and then take the photo.

lol

# ? Apr 30, 2024 15:20

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

there is probably a defensible thesis about how interactive media has made it harder for people to watch and interpret films.

they instinctively want a dialogue wheel to controls, and a HUD during the action scenes

"the correct response," "the ~rational~ way to do this," "proper room clearing technique is actually..."

# ? Apr 30, 2024 15:29

Tequila Bob: Nov 2, 2011; IT'S HAL TIME, CHUMPS

veni veni veni posted:

No I mostly meant that you seem like a massive loser that has never interacted with another human outside of the internet. If I was in Vegas I would throw money down on you never having a single friend in your entire loving life and you earned it.

Good 3 AM post

# ? Apr 30, 2024 15:38

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Owlbear Camus posted:

there is probably a defensible thesis about how interactive media has made it harder for people to watch and interpret films.

they instinctively want a dialogue wheel to controls, and a HUD during the action scenes

"the correct response," "the ~rational~ way to do this," "proper room clearing technique is actually..."

I hate how this explains so much about internet movie discourse.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 15:45

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD: Sep 14, 2007; everything is yours

Owlbear Camus posted:

there is probably a defensible thesis about how interactive media has made it harder for people to watch and interpret films.

they instinctively want a dialogue wheel to controls, and a HUD during the action scenes

"the correct response," "the ~rational~ way to do this," "proper room clearing technique is actually..."

This is Tactical Realism

# ? Apr 30, 2024 15:50

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

veni veni veni posted:

No I mostly meant that you seem like a massive loser that has never interacted with another human outside of the internet. If I was in Vegas I would throw money down on you never having a single friend in your entire loving life and you earned it.

So your uncle liked the movie, or�?

# ? Apr 30, 2024 17:00

Famethrowa: Oct 5, 2012

Schwarzwald posted:

lol

incredible to just go out there and prove war journalists are like they are depicted in the film.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 17:38

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

veni veni veni posted:

No I mostly meant that you seem like a massive loser that has never interacted with another human outside of the internet. If I was in Vegas I would throw money down on you never having a single friend in your entire loving life and you earned it.

drat THIS POST IS EPIC

# ? Apr 30, 2024 17:52

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

looks like someone didn't understand the profound message of the film. divisive, angry rhetoric.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 17:58

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Owlbear Camus posted:

there is probably a defensible thesis about how interactive media has made it harder for people to watch and interpret films.

they instinctively want a dialogue wheel to controls, and a HUD during the action scenes

"the correct response," "the ~rational~ way to do this," "proper room clearing technique is actually..."

The guy seems to be just placing it in a more realistic and human context. Ofc you would check on your colleagues. Ofc you would have opinions about the hosed up situation you're in. Ofc you wouldn't want dumbasses thrown into your fire fight.

The people in the movie seem less like people than demonstrations, the director jabbing at them as they're lit up on a projector, DO YOU GET IT YET?!

Haven't seen Come and See but at least there seems to be a historical context to its awful depiction, grounded in the hosed up and horrific dynamics of its place and time. Can you say the same for this movie?

# ? Apr 30, 2024 18:04

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

I mean in the specific context of the exchange "what do you think?" is a perfectly human response. The whole point of the scene by the helicopter is Lee is still icy towards Jessie, basically telling her "if you want to go see the elephant with us, on your own head be whatever happens."

I think there's a lot of criticisms you can make about the movie, but Lee not offering her comforting reassurance to close out that early scene is not a mistake or bad writing.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 18:14

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

veni veni veni posted:

You are an absolute loving moron. Seriously possibly the worst poster I have ever seen.

don't sell yourself short

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

This is Tactical Realism

i always felt we could blame Gamers somehow

# ? Apr 30, 2024 19:35

Android Apocalypse: Apr 28, 2009; The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE; Illegal Hen

Press "F" to document war crimes.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 19:40

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

This must be like the sixth or seventh piece of dystopian media I�ve watched in the past year. Just a really good era for people who like to fantasize about the end of the world.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 19:45

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

Vegetable posted:

This must be like the sixth or seventh piece of dystopian media I�ve watched in the past year. Just a really good era for people who like to fantasize about the end of the world.

i suspect the prevalence of apocalypse/post apocalypse stuff isn't just that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than a small change to the capitalist system, but also that a lot of americans and brits basically just feel like we deserve it

# ? Apr 30, 2024 19:47

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

Vegetable posted:

This must be like the sixth or seventh piece of dystopian media I�ve watched in the past year. Just a really good era for people who like to fantasize about the end of the world.

Dystopian and apocalyptic aren't synonyms and this movie ends with the implication that things are going back to "normal" (i.e. the bad president who broke the law is defeated by the Centrist Alliance of Liberal California and Conservative Texas).

# ? Apr 30, 2024 19:48

ephori: Sep 1, 2006; Dinosaur Gum

Yadoppsi posted:

edit) Wait how about : Gentleman you can't fight here. This is the Civil War thread!

Lol amazing

# ? Apr 30, 2024 20:19

Magic Hate Ball: May 6, 2007; ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this

mein fuhrer, i can vote!

# ? Apr 30, 2024 20:33

dpkg chopra: Jun 9, 2007; Fast Food Fight; Grimey Drawer

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

Dystopian and apocalyptic aren't synonyms and this movie ends with the implication that things are going back to "normal" (i.e. the bad president who broke the law is defeated by the Centrist Alliance of Liberal California and Conservative Texas).

In his interview, Garland suggested a possible reason why these two states would ally is that despite their wildly different stances on social aspects of society, both agree that fascism is Bad.

So it�s like California wants more Democracy, and the Don�t Tread on Me state would just not abide a fascist dictator.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 21:55

Sir Kodiak: May 14, 2007

Shageletic posted:

As a tool to make them a political unit to hound their enemies. Seems like the politics in this movie which is grim and wildly focused on the visceral excitement of shooting people, is pretty undeveloped.

Yep. The whole dismantled-the-FBI thing is surface-level Trump-coding for the villainous president, with no engagement with the actual real-world agenda.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 22:48

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

As I've thought about this movie more and more I've thought worse and worse of it. It's not apolitical and it's gutless, which I just can't abide. John Milius, for all his buck wild right wing swamp fever, didn't pretend to be apolitical. Russians airdropping soldiers on a Colorado town is pure red meat Tom Clancy nonsense but at least Red Dawn had the guts to puke up a title screen about how pinko nuclear disarmament and Central American commie coups would be needed to get us to this point. It wore it's (Reagan-worshipping) heart on it's sleeve. This movie tries to be cagey and it just ends up undermining itself. Would absolutely rather see the PMC worldview going full bore than this failed sneaky poo poo.

The individual scenes are directed really well, so it's a shame the director didn't have the courage of his convictions on this one.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 23:34

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

more happens in the opening title cards of red dawn than in most entire movies and it's good cornball fun

# ? Apr 30, 2024 23:38

Android Apocalypse: Apr 28, 2009; The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE; Illegal Hen

I watched Red Dawn recently and it's ultimately a pretty bleak film. While Danny & Erica ultimately escape, the last scene of the Wolverines is Jed & Matt dying in Calumet.

I do remember seeing the movie one time around 2007 & somebody in my viewing party remarked "this movie takes on a different feel if you swap out the invading armies with Americans & the locals with Afghan villagers."

I probably have some point to make� maybe about Garland purposely setting this in the United States instead of some other country that is experiencing actual civil war immediately setting the tone on how we'll interact with the movie.

# ? Apr 30, 2024 23:56

Sir Kodiak: May 14, 2007

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

The individual scenes are directed really well, so it's a shame the director didn't have the courage of his convictions on this one.

Yeah, it's a shame he's giving up directing to focus on writing when it's the directing that has stood out on his writer/director projects.

# ? May 1, 2024 00:00

ANOTHER SCORCHER: Aug 12, 2018

Vegetable posted:

This must be like the sixth or seventh piece of dystopian media I�ve watched in the past year. Just a really good era for people who like to fantasize about the end of the world.

bored, post-scarcity Americans want to pretend they�re caught in life-and-death struggles for importance. See antifa, proud boys, the current Israel-Palestine mess for more examples of this

# ? May 1, 2024 00:22

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

Android Apocalypse posted:

I watched Red Dawn recently and it's ultimately a pretty bleak film. While Danny & Erica ultimately escape, the last scene of the Wolverines is Jed & Matt dying in Calumet.

I would agree with you except the final scene is "anyway, America won" which recontextualizes everything as a Heroic Sacrifice. If they had left it on that park bench it would have indeed been a very bleak movie, but instead it pulls a 300-lite and says "without these sacrifices, America wouldn't have held out" with a literal monument to their victory.

# ? May 1, 2024 00:27

SuperMechagodzilla: Jun 9, 2007; NEWT REBORN

ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

bored, post-scarcity Americans want to pretend they�re caught in life-and-death struggles for importance. See antifa, proud boys, the current Israel-Palestine mess for more examples of this

Yeah, nothing's real, man. See now this is what 'too online' actually looks like.

# ? May 1, 2024 01:07

Famethrowa: Oct 5, 2012

ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

bored, post-scarcity Americans want to pretend they’re caught in life-and-death struggles for importance. See antifa, proud boys, the current Israel-Palestine mess for more examples of this

I think the Palestinian people as well as their allies on campus around the United States have a lot to struggle for, actually. Namely, against the deaths of their friends and families in an ongoing genocide.

Seriously how is this thread repeatedly attracting this poo poo.

# ? May 1, 2024 01:33

Uncle Boogeyman: Jul 22, 2007

Famethrowa posted:

I think the Palestinian people as well as their allies on campus around the United States have a lot to struggle for, actually. Namely, against the deaths of their friends and families in an ongoing genocide.

Seriously how is this thread repeatedly attracting this poo poo.

The thread is repeatedly attracting this poo poo because people like the person you quoted are who this movie was made for

# ? May 1, 2024 02:15

Haptical Sales Slut: Mar 15, 2010; Age 18 to 49

This may have already been discussed, but the most unrealistic thing to me is the two main characters not packing a sidearm. I know that�s like war journalism 101, but when the war is in your entire country I doubt anyone would give a poo poo about any principles other than �stay alive�.

At the very least someone should have ran for Plemmons� rifle after it was, uh, knocked loose.

# ? May 1, 2024 02:38

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# ? May 22, 2024 15:36

Android Apocalypse: Apr 28, 2009; The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE; Illegal Hen

IIRC journalists always go unarmed lest they be misidentified as "enemy combatants."

They're usually also embedded with a specific unit that keeps an eye out on them. Freelance journalists running around an active battlefield is an easy way to get shot so there's that.

# ? May 1, 2024 02:42

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The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Civil War: Watch Garland start a fucking war

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