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abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010

:darksouls:
ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday

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Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

Judge Schnoopy posted:

To me it's an equation of time. I only have so many hours in the day and most of them are spent building the product. The product team is designed to spend all of their time focusing on customers. I can't be effective while focusing on customers and product isn't going to be effective focusing on how the solution is built.

I'm not advocating for a "not my job" attitude, I'm advocating for leaning into specialties for higher efficiency.
We're leaning into the opposite of this. The higher-ups all had a training recently and came back raving about the flavorade and now I, as a backend engineer, am being asked to come up with solutions for things like "how do we get more users to register?" instead of things like "how do we improve our (awful) engineering posture?"

Vulture Culture posted:

Most people don't quite grasp the gravity of the situation where product is bottlenecked so badly that engineering teams are asking, "What do I do next?"

Healthy teams quite often have backlogs that are months long and not nearly enough time to do all the work they need to ship high-quality software. Teams having to stop work because of missing requirements means that product has been dysfunctional at keeping the pipeline full of work for at least several months.
We have both a healthy backlog and so little autonomy that we do nothing of value while product spins their wheels for six months trying to think up the next big feature. Don't start anything big because we'll need that capacity for the thing... any day now... any day...


abraham linksys posted:

ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday
At my first job we had a phenomenal product manager, who knew the application inside and out despite having no technical background. I had no idea how good I had it until I had a bad one.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

abraham linksys posted:

ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday
My org has, for a long time, had one extremely good product manager and a bunch of other PMs who stare at him while he singlehandedly absorbs every product

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007



Vulture Culture posted:

My org has, for a long time, had one extremely good product manager and a bunch of other PMs who stare at him while he singlehandedly absorbs every product

do you work for my company?

(I feel bad for our PM but I feel like she needs to let other projects sink instead of taking on the responsibility)

BAD AT STUFF
May 10, 2012

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because fuck you.

abraham linksys posted:

ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday

The best one I've had was really good at asking probing questions that would clarify what constituted MVP. Several times I walked through a new process with him on the whiteboard, then after explaining it realized there was a smaller portion of the work that could be delivered independently before the whole.

I dunno if "business value rubber duck" looks good on a resume, though.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Vulture Culture posted:

Healthy teams quite often have backlogs that are months long and not nearly enough time to do all the work they need to ship high-quality software.

Haha, yeah, healthy teams do this, yeah… :negative:

No, it hasn’t gotten any better here. In fact, I ended up taking the afternoon off yesterday because of a depression spike/mental health downturn. I’m okay now, but gently caress man.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Pollyanna posted:

Haha, yeah, healthy teams do this, yeah… :negative:

No, it hasn’t gotten any better here. In fact, I ended up taking the afternoon off yesterday because of a depression spike/mental health downturn. I’m okay now, but gently caress man.

:smith:

jobs are stupid

I got back from a two week vacation a while ago that left me in the best mental state I've been in since I had a kid, and within two days I was already almost as stressed as I was pre-vacation.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

ChickenWing posted:

:smith:

jobs are stupid

I got back from a two week vacation a while ago that left me in the best mental state I've been in since I had a kid, and within two days I was already almost as stressed as I was pre-vacation.

Is not like the work got done in the meantime. It was just waiting there for you.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
*a customer report comes in that prod is down, issue is quickly validated as universal, failing API is identified, and automated alarms trigger within a few minutes*

Golly gee! Service X went down?? poo poo, they're usually rock solid. Huh, looks like they've got an active ticket and it seems they think this is isolated to their testing stage?? Boy, better make sure they're aware this is a broader issue because surely our production environment isn't pointed at their unstable testing environment, right?

Right?

:shepicide:

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Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Testing in production without testing in production

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