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abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010

:darksouls:
ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday

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Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

Judge Schnoopy posted:

To me it's an equation of time. I only have so many hours in the day and most of them are spent building the product. The product team is designed to spend all of their time focusing on customers. I can't be effective while focusing on customers and product isn't going to be effective focusing on how the solution is built.

I'm not advocating for a "not my job" attitude, I'm advocating for leaning into specialties for higher efficiency.
We're leaning into the opposite of this. The higher-ups all had a training recently and came back raving about the flavorade and now I, as a backend engineer, am being asked to come up with solutions for things like "how do we get more users to register?" instead of things like "how do we improve our (awful) engineering posture?"

Vulture Culture posted:

Most people don't quite grasp the gravity of the situation where product is bottlenecked so badly that engineering teams are asking, "What do I do next?"

Healthy teams quite often have backlogs that are months long and not nearly enough time to do all the work they need to ship high-quality software. Teams having to stop work because of missing requirements means that product has been dysfunctional at keeping the pipeline full of work for at least several months.
We have both a healthy backlog and so little autonomy that we do nothing of value while product spins their wheels for six months trying to think up the next big feature. Don't start anything big because we'll need that capacity for the thing... any day now... any day...


abraham linksys posted:

ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday
At my first job we had a phenomenal product manager, who knew the application inside and out despite having no technical background. I had no idea how good I had it until I had a bad one.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

abraham linksys posted:

ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday
My org has, for a long time, had one extremely good product manager and a bunch of other PMs who stare at him while he singlehandedly absorbs every product

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007



Vulture Culture posted:

My org has, for a long time, had one extremely good product manager and a bunch of other PMs who stare at him while he singlehandedly absorbs every product

do you work for my company?

(I feel bad for our PM but I feel like she needs to let other projects sink instead of taking on the responsibility)

BAD AT STUFF
May 10, 2012

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because fuck you.

abraham linksys posted:

ive only ever worked places where product managers are literally just Tom from office space. itd be cool to meet one who's good at their job someday

The best one I've had was really good at asking probing questions that would clarify what constituted MVP. Several times I walked through a new process with him on the whiteboard, then after explaining it realized there was a smaller portion of the work that could be delivered independently before the whole.

I dunno if "business value rubber duck" looks good on a resume, though.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Vulture Culture posted:

Healthy teams quite often have backlogs that are months long and not nearly enough time to do all the work they need to ship high-quality software.

Haha, yeah, healthy teams do this, yeah… :negative:

No, it hasn’t gotten any better here. In fact, I ended up taking the afternoon off yesterday because of a depression spike/mental health downturn. I’m okay now, but gently caress man.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Pollyanna posted:

Haha, yeah, healthy teams do this, yeah… :negative:

No, it hasn’t gotten any better here. In fact, I ended up taking the afternoon off yesterday because of a depression spike/mental health downturn. I’m okay now, but gently caress man.

:smith:

jobs are stupid

I got back from a two week vacation a while ago that left me in the best mental state I've been in since I had a kid, and within two days I was already almost as stressed as I was pre-vacation.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

ChickenWing posted:

:smith:

jobs are stupid

I got back from a two week vacation a while ago that left me in the best mental state I've been in since I had a kid, and within two days I was already almost as stressed as I was pre-vacation.

Is not like the work got done in the meantime. It was just waiting there for you.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
*a customer report comes in that prod is down, issue is quickly validated as universal, failing API is identified, and automated alarms trigger within a few minutes*

Golly gee! Service X went down?? poo poo, they're usually rock solid. Huh, looks like they've got an active ticket and it seems they think this is isolated to their testing stage?? Boy, better make sure they're aware this is a broader issue because surely our production environment isn't pointed at their unstable testing environment, right?

Right?

:shepicide:

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Testing in production without testing in production

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I was wanting to get our own Wiki section on our company's wiki. To document their own loving old rear end i Series based ERP, of all things, because whenever someone in the factory has issues, they contact me/us. Apparently it wasn't possible, because they were using XWiki and there were issues due to lovely configuration and security setup. I was being reassured that something new was coming. "Confluence" was mentioned several times. I thought "sure, whatevs".

They've finally "rolled it out". (As in, paying for a cloud-based solution.)

What in the gently caress is this poo poo?! :barf:

What riles me up the worst are these centered tables.

mistermojo
Jul 3, 2004

I thought a product managers job was to fiddle with monday.com for things that are already being tracked and worked on in gitlab

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

Combat Pretzel posted:

I was wanting to get our own Wiki section on our company's wiki. To document their own loving old rear end i Series based ERP, of all things, because whenever someone in the factory has issues, they contact me/us. Apparently it wasn't possible, because they were using XWiki and there were issues due to lovely configuration and security setup. I was being reassured that something new was coming. "Confluence" was mentioned several times. I thought "sure, whatevs".

They've finally "rolled it out". (As in, paying for a cloud-based solution.)

What in the gently caress is this poo poo?! :barf:

What riles me up the worst are these centered tables.

We switched to cloud confluence in the last year, and recently it got the AI learning turned on...

Until someone noticed that it doesn't respect access restrictions and will gleefully provide answers / snippets of content you're not legally allowed to see.

That was a fun 4-6 hours.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Hughlander posted:

We switched to cloud confluence in the last year, and recently it got the AI learning turned on...

Until someone noticed that it doesn't respect access restrictions and will gleefully provide answers / snippets of content you're not legally allowed to see.

That was a fun 4-6 hours.

Hahaha corporate fishing by starting a sentence you want to know the answer to and letting ai fill in the blanks.

Absolutely amazing

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Hughlander posted:

We switched to cloud confluence in the last year, and recently it got the AI learning turned on...

Until someone noticed that it doesn't respect access restrictions and will gleefully provide answers / snippets of content you're not legally allowed to see.

That was a fun 4-6 hours.
If you had PHI in there (Atlassian offers and signs BAAs), how would you even determine if there's been a reportable breach?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Hahaha corporate fishing by starting a sentence you want to know the answer to and letting ai fill in the blanks.

Absolutely amazing
Imma check if they have it enabled here, and if so, see what I can make it tell me.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
I saw the "enable Atlassian AI" ticket show up in the queue and immediately wanted to see if I could get away with quietly deleting it

BAD AT STUFF
May 10, 2012

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because fuck you.
We ran into a similar thing with O365 Copilot, but with self-inflicted access control issues. A bunch of people put tax documents in OneDrive with open permissions, and Copilot was really good at finding them.

Lyesh
Apr 9, 2003

We just migrated our tiny server instance to atlassian's cloud, and it's very funny/sad to me how "cloud" is probably going to become a swear-word in healthcare pretty soon. All the HIPAA stuff is on, so we aren't dealing with the AI crawler thank god. But at some point I fully expect someone in the US federal government to see how fast and loose cloud providers play with server locations and the like. There's an absolute treasure trove of HIPAA data stored overseas and both parties love nothing if not trumped-up xenophobic nonsense. Encryption helps, but with the level of intrusiveness some of the services from the last decade have, your org is putting itself at the mercy of Amazon's willingness to do anything to save a nickel for your physical server security.

Like, wouldn't it be cool if that terrifying CCP happened to find Biden's health record and sent it to FoxNews?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Lyesh posted:

We just migrated our tiny server instance to atlassian's cloud, and it's very funny/sad to me how "cloud" is probably going to become a swear-word in healthcare pretty soon. All the HIPAA stuff is on, so we aren't dealing with the AI crawler thank god. But at some point I fully expect someone in the US federal government to see how fast and loose cloud providers play with server locations and the like. There's an absolute treasure trove of HIPAA data stored overseas and both parties love nothing if not trumped-up xenophobic nonsense. Encryption helps, but with the level of intrusiveness some of the services from the last decade have, your org is putting itself at the mercy of Amazon's willingness to do anything to save a nickel for your physical server security.

Like, wouldn't it be cool if that terrifying CCP happened to find Biden's health record and sent it to FoxNews?

Hey, remember when every federal employee's PII was stolen and the response was...

I'm not optimistic until someone very important ends up very embarrassed.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.
We're in a Reagan 2: Electric Boogaloo era of deregulation where the regulations exist on paper but everyone basically just ignores them because every politician wants to see econometric go up. I've interviewed with a number of health tech startups over the past few years, and you'd be stunned what companies are getting away with even with HITRUST, ISO, etc. auditors coming around every few months. Having real-world experience in one of these compliance areas is something that will actually make new companies not hire you, because they will absolutely not invest in it, and they will lose plausible deniability when something happens. The auditors are slowly doing their jobs in a more and more lax way because there's huge financial incentives to be invited back for the next audit.

HIPAA in its current form offers the possibility of jail time if there's another Jussie Smollett situation where hospital employees are literally selling access to health records for profit. For most companies that are garden-variety negligent, breaches don't affect stock performance and the penalties are never costly enough to really impact operations. The fines are just a cost of doing business, like how NYC contractors' estimates pad for anticipated parking tickets. From a CFO perspective, the best way to manage the financial risk is to move fast and grow grow grow, because if you don't, someone else who will is going to monopolize the market and eat you.

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 14:02 on May 6, 2024

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
The latest VS Code update broke my color theme. I mean, latter hasn't been updated since somewhen 2021, so it was bound to happen. But still. It's like someone loving with your car seat.

--edit: Nevermind, I see on the Github repo that this author started loving about with it, yesterday of all things. :argh:

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 6, 2024

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smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Hahaha corporate fishing by starting a sentence you want to know the answer to and letting ai fill in the blanks.

Absolutely amazing

Reminds me of our old corporate directory that let you search by job title. Which is completely useless unless you want to be able to get exact headcount for every position at every location, for “corporate research”. It was also super useful to see how few staff engineers we had given how many senior engineers wanted that promotion.

Sadly, they changed it to a bad search that can’t even find by name half the time.

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