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Nukelear v.2 posted:An unpopulated MD3620i with dual controllers is ~9k and is 10GigE, vs 6k for an empty NX. MD also isn't drive locked so feel free to put whatever you want in it. H700 is a pci-e card so, pop in a new card and watch it rebuild run of the backups that rely on NAS C for the time being, until A is back up. Patching just svMotion stuff off and run the patches, reboot, svMotion stuff back on, move to next host. I know it isn't super awesome, best SAN ever but it is still head over heels better than running everything DAS, with backups being snapshots. Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 23, 2012 |
# ? May 23, 2012 19:58 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 10:33 |
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paperchaseguy posted:look at v7000 Unified Running your poo poo on 3 different devices just isn't very smart if the management/functionality isn't integrated. 3 equallogic devices would be another story. Corvettefisher posted:Patching just Vmotion stuff off and run the patches, reboot, sDRS stuff back on, move to next host. You're not a dumb dude but please re-read your posts. Nukelear v.2 posted:MD also isn't drive locked so feel free to put whatever you want in it. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 23, 2012 |
# ? May 23, 2012 20:45 |
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^^^ According to two storage folks I've talked to at Dell. I'm waiting for an excuse to get one and load it up with cheap ssd's. Corvettefisher posted:H700 is a pci-e card so, pop in a new card and watch it rebuild run of the backups that rely on NAS C for the time being, until A is back up. So going to backup really sounds like a good plan, you want that call at 3am that you entire Web/SQL infrastructure is down? Can your cheap/slow tier actually handle running your production traffic at anything resembling your previous speeds? How well does vmware do when it's storage backend goes to hell? Your own first post in the VM thread is don't cheap out on storage. For ~15k you can get a 2Gig cache DUAL CONTROLLER MD3620i with 2x MD1220 shelves, that's capacity for 66 2.5 inch drives. Or mix in a MD1200 and get some 2TB 3.5 inch drives. Splurge and buy the drives from Dell directly, prices on everything but SSD's aren't bad. Also, the whole thing can be covered by 4 hour on-site support. Nukelear v.2 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 23, 2012 |
# ? May 23, 2012 21:25 |
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Nukelear v.2 posted:
Are you getting the pricing straight from Dell or after some back and forth? I ask because dual controller MD3620i start at $18k on their site and MD1220s are $3500 a piece. That comes out to $25k and not $15k
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# ? May 23, 2012 23:25 |
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Nukelear v.2 posted:So going to backup really sounds like a good plan, you want that call at 3am that you entire Web/SQL infrastructure is down? Can your cheap/slow tier actually handle running your production traffic at anything resembling your previous speeds? How well does vmware do when it's storage backend goes to hell? Your own first post in the VM thread is don't cheap out on storage I would say you are right if I had existing SAN/NAS to go off of, but here is my situation Right now our SQL/Web/VDI infrastructure is best hosted on a server with DAS 8 1TB 7.2k SATA RAID 5 256MB write cache. WE HAVE NO CENTRAL STORAGE. It isn't too slow for our needs but definitely slower than it should be, people are starting to drop the line "why is everything so slow". VDI is all on DAS put randomly on hosts through the cluster, same with other servers, HA/FT/vmotion/sDRS/DRS is non exsistant even with out Enterpise Plus licensing. A host failure right now would be hell more difficult recovery, than dealing with some sql servers on a backup NAS. No I am not trying to "cheap out" I don't have a huge budget to work with here. I am trying to get the infrastructure what it needs to get it somewhat better, more redundant than what it is at right now. I would love to spludge if I had the funds to do it, and go get some NetApp/EMC equipment but I don't have the funds for it. The 2 MD1200 would be great to get, until I realize I have to address 8 hosts... So I need 16 SAS cables, and then 2x8port switches... and then 8 additional SAS cards... I could go SAS => 2 hosts(which I would need some SAS cards for) then run VM iscsi servers, but that is adding a good amount of added layers that are needed to go through, just to get my data to where it needs to be. That would more than likely push my over 30k. Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 23:57 on May 23, 2012 |
# ? May 23, 2012 23:45 |
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bull3964 posted:Are you getting the pricing straight from Dell or after some back and forth? I ask because dual controller MD3620i start at $18k on their site and MD1220s are $3500 a piece. That comes out to $25k and not $15k No one pays list price. Discounts of 40% or more are common in enterprise IT gear. The publicly traded guys will almost give stuff away at end of quarters and fiscal year end to make their revenue numbers.
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# ? May 24, 2012 00:35 |
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You could do a lot more with 30k, but it seems you feel the need to justify it instead of putting that 30k to good use. It sounds like your company is pretty terribly ran so they won't know any better, either way. three fucked around with this message at 00:45 on May 24, 2012 |
# ? May 24, 2012 00:41 |
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Corvettefisher posted:The 2 MD1200 would be great to get, until I realize I have to address 8 hosts... So I need 16 SAS cables, and then 2x8port switches... and then 8 additional SAS cards...
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# ? May 24, 2012 10:08 |
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bull3964 posted:Are you getting the pricing straight from Dell or after some back and forth? I ask because dual controller MD3620i start at $18k on their site and MD1220s are $3500 a piece. That comes out to $25k and not $15k Straight from Dell.com with a Mid-size business Premiere login, which is a good starting point for pricing and easily attainable by someone with 30k to spend if he calls in. As skippdogg said, nobody pays list and if you tell them you are shopping other storage vendors (say specific names/models) and try to hit them up near fiscal end of quarter, you can get even better pricing. Corvettefisher, not to be a jerk but based on not knowing how sans expand with disk trays, it sounds like you may be out of your element here. 5-10 years ago, yes 30k would get you nothing in the san space, but now you have a plethora of SMB sized options that would fit your budget. The problem with your plan is that you aren't increasing the reliability of your design by moving from DAS to NAS, you are adding some massive single points of failure and saying how bad things are now but moving to another bad solution isn't a defense. Gather up your IOPS needs from ESXi and your capacity needs and call Dell tell them what you are trying to accomplish and what your budget constraints are. If you want, send me a PM and I'll give you the contact info for my storage guy there.
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# ? May 24, 2012 14:18 |
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Put Dell / Equallogic / Compellent up again EMC and NetApp up against Nimble. The price will drop a lot.
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# ? May 24, 2012 14:49 |
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As if you needed another reason to not buy EMC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDhx6ECNww4
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# ? May 26, 2012 04:20 |
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Serfer posted:As if you needed another reason to not buy EMC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDhx6ECNww4 I will never buy from EMC because of this tragedy of a failed marketing attempt. It's not even funny.
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# ? May 26, 2012 05:15 |
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the spyder posted:I will never buy from EMC because of this tragedy of a failed marketing attempt. It's not even funny. To be fair, it's an internal cheerleading video made for EMCWorld, not a real marketing campaign. Doesn't make it any less terrible, though.
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# ? May 26, 2012 14:26 |
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I'm just sad that Vaughn Stewart was the gorilla.
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# ? May 26, 2012 18:13 |
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Sadly, this isn't the first storage related rap video. Or even the second. And if NetApp choose to respond in like, again, we can expect a 4th one soon... Also, was it just me or did anyone else see all the different size racks and different depths all over the place there? Yuck.
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# ? May 26, 2012 18:31 |
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Chad Sakac owns, so that video owns by proxy.
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# ? May 26, 2012 20:08 |
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Speaking of EMC being terrible, I wasted three hours of my time working with yet another know-nothing EMC tech. I knew things were going to go bad when he tried to cd and ls /dev/hda7. Then he mounted an iso loopback and after doing df, said the upgrade couldn't proceed because one of the drives was 100% full (care to guess which one?).
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# ? May 26, 2012 20:11 |
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Internet Explorer posted:Put Dell / Equallogic / Compellent up again EMC and NetApp up against Nimble. The price will drop a lot. Dell = Equal logic just FYI http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/dell-buys-equallogic-for-14b-biggest-cash-purchase-of-private-tech-company/ Serfer posted:Speaking of EMC being terrible, I wasted three hours of my time working with yet another know-nothing EMC tech. One company I am working with has their eyes set on the VNXE3100, I am trying to push nettapp but they say a video from an EMC sales rep and instantly knew there are no other options! Surprisingly this company wants to spend money on their IT infrastructure, unlike a it firm not wanting to spend money.
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# ? May 26, 2012 20:12 |
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Serfer posted:As if you needed another reason to not buy EMC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDhx6ECNww4 I am pretty sure if I wore one of those shirts, after trying to explain it any of my friends, I would get smacked in the face. Edit: I still kinda want one.
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# ? May 26, 2012 20:41 |
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Corvettefisher posted:Dell = Equal logic just FYI I'm pretty sure that's why he linked Dell, Equallogic, and Compellent together, since both Equallogic and Compellent are owned by Dell.
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# ? May 26, 2012 20:45 |
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Corvettefisher posted:Dell = Equal logic just FYI E: fish
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# ? May 26, 2012 20:47 |
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Never forget Mr. T shilling for HDS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1S2tsxVHg
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# ? May 26, 2012 21:27 |
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Corvettefisher posted:Dell = Equal logic just FYI Like the others said, I I know that. If you are looking at the VNXe line you absolutely need to look at Equallogic.
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# ? May 27, 2012 04:12 |
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Internet Explorer posted:Like the others said, I I know that. If you are looking at the VNXe line you absolutely need to look at Equallogic. No I got you, didn't realize you knew that. But yeah this customer is like EMC VNX 3100s! Probably will get them an nice equal logic setup, ther are multisite but 20Mb fiber 5ms lines between them they want full replication and dedup. Anyone have the how to become a dell partner guide? would appricaite it
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# ? May 27, 2012 04:27 |
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Corvettefisher posted:No I got you, didn't realize you knew that. Not sure where the VNX to Equallogic transition is coming from. Going from a unified block/file scale up SAN to an iSCSI only scale out SAN doesn't make much sense to me. The VNX line is a direct response to NetApp and NetApp would be the obvious competitor. Anyway, what is it that they like about the VNX gear? Anyway, Equallogic doesn't do on-box dedupe so if that's a requirement they would need to look elsewhere. If they're content with iSCSI only then Nimble might be a good fit. They don't do dedupe but they do in-line compression and apparently see pretty good results. Of course, I'd recommend NetApp because I think their offering is genuinely much better than the VNX gear, but I'm hardly impartial.
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# ? May 27, 2012 20:59 |
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NippleFloss posted:Not sure where the VNX to Equallogic transition is coming from. Going from a unified block/file scale up SAN to an iSCSI only scale out SAN doesn't make much sense to me. The VNX line is a direct response to NetApp and NetApp would be the obvious competitor. If it is like what most sales reps do, $IT_manager went to lunch with $EMC_rep, and discussed what they have in the cheap end and the VNX 3100 came up. The main requirement is replication between sites, dedupe is a nice bonus they would like but aren't pushing for it outside of a nice to have. Depending on what my budget is will depend where I go, seeing how they listed the VNX 3100 my guess is they want to go on the cheaper end.
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# ? May 27, 2012 21:15 |
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I don't think VNX does block dedup?
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# ? May 27, 2012 21:17 |
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evil_bunnY posted:I don't think VNX does block dedup? Correct file level dedupe http://www.emc.com/storage/vnx/vnx-series.htm#!compare
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# ? May 27, 2012 21:23 |
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Corvettefisher posted:Correct file level dedupe
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# ? May 27, 2012 21:26 |
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evil_bunnY posted:And that's only if you get the NAS heads. oops I posted the higher end models http://www.emc.com/storage/vnx/vnxe-series.htm#!compare VNXE is actually the model name, but yeah, pretty sure I can get better with Equal logic or Netapp if I throw them up against EMCs offerings
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# ? May 27, 2012 21:30 |
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The VNXe was what he was talking about, which doesn't have NAS functions and is very similar feature wise to an Equallogic box.
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# ? May 28, 2012 03:01 |
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So as it turns out the major, major outage we had last week was caused by a double disk failure on a IBM SAN (disk failure, then second disk failure apparently compounded by some sort of software error). Only one disk group was affected, but because the controllers freaked, pretty much all central services were affected. Apparently a world first, since IBM support had never seen anything like that before. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 12:36 on May 28, 2012 |
# ? May 28, 2012 12:32 |
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Internet Explorer posted:The VNXe was what he was talking about, which doesn't have NAS functions and is very similar feature wise to an Equallogic box. The VNXe is CIFS, NFS and iSCSI.
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# ? May 28, 2012 12:34 |
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evil_bunnY posted:So as it turns out the major, major outage we had last week was caused by a double disk failure on a IBM SAN (disk failure, then second disk failure apparently compounded by some sort of software error). Only one disk group was affected, but because the controllers freaked, pretty much all central services were affected. Was it an XIV? Please tell me it was. Please.
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# ? May 28, 2012 17:39 |
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XIVs are ginormous pieces of poo poo. IBM always had a tech on site at least once a week for random problems we had. Coincidentally, the tech was stabbed in the parking lot after he pulled an all nighter trying to fix the SAN when it broke for the millionth time.
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# ? May 28, 2012 17:43 |
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marketingman posted:Was it an XIV? Goon Matchmaker posted:Coincidentally, the tech was stabbed in the parking lot after he pulled an all nighter trying to fix the SAN when it broke for the millionth time. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 18:38 on May 28, 2012 |
# ? May 28, 2012 17:44 |
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evil_bunnY posted:Managers meeting tomorrow, I'll see if I can find out. I can neither confirm nor deny my involvement. Edit: What's really funny is that the business is in a fairly safe part of town. Low crime, police don't patrol it often cause the worst that ever happens is someone gets bothered by a bum. Somehow though this guy managed to get mugged and stabbed though. I guess it's some form of karma or something. I don't know. He did live though. Goon Matchmaker fucked around with this message at 19:14 on May 28, 2012 |
# ? May 28, 2012 19:10 |
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Goon Matchmaker posted:Coincidentally, the tech was stabbed in the parking lot after he pulled an all nighter trying to fix the SAN when it broke for the millionth time. Am I a bad person for laughing at this?
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# ? May 29, 2012 01:36 |
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marketingman posted:Was it an XIV?
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# ? May 29, 2012 09:49 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 10:33 |
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evil_bunnY posted:It was v7K. Sorry Have you lodged the fault(s) with IBM yet? I'm interested to see how you get along as my support experience with V7000 hardware has been pretty poor. The problem with getting support for the V7000 is that the department/team which handles it (Storage Central/zRTS) are one of those "don't call us, we'll call you" departments. All you can do is call the IBM support number, lodge a case with the National Contact Centre and pray that they got your details right and/or you get a callback. Recently we experienced a "catastrophic failure" with a V7000 cluster that we deployed at a customers site (Thankfully it wasn't in production yet). Around the end of April I recieved an alert stating that a PSU in the control enclosure had failed so I dutifully logged it with the National Contact Centre and started the waiting game. Then just over 30 minutes later the control enclosure started spewing out heaps of terrifying alerts ("The node is no longer a functional member of the cluster", "Enclosure electronics critical failure", etc.) and then went down hard and became completeley inaccessible. When I got onsite the fans on the control enclosure were running at 100%, the enclosure indicator light on the control enclosure was off and all the HDDs in the control enclosure had the amber fault lights lit. I cold-booted everything and it magically came back up fine. So basically in the space of 5 minutes the entire cluster went down hard. The first thing I did was get back onto IBM which began a saga which lasted almost a month. The fault was escalated from level 2 to level 3 and then to product engineering/development in the UK. There were countless incidents of miscoummincation between all levels and we only managed to get a final word on the fault after tearing the service delivery manager a new one. In the end we finally recieved word back from development (Via a level 3 engineer) who stated that the failure was caused by a soft error experienced on one of the i2c buses. The control enclosure responded to this error by attempting to perform a hard reset which failed resulting in both canisters going down. The expected fix for this is to be included in the v6.4 code release (Release data TBA). However development assured me that the "condition is extremely rare and very unlikely to occur again". This experience with the Storage Central/zRTS team and development has left quite the sour taste in my mouth. I still love the V7000 and this issue would not deter me from recommending it to others (If they can afford it) however I do not look forward to dealing with IBM support for anything beyond a HDD failure with any V7000 hardware. Oh and sorry about the . I get carried away sometimes.
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# ? May 29, 2012 14:19 |