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No one ever said being a Starfleet captain would be glamorous.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:36
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Kazy posted:Let's not also forget this:  Maybe my point should have been, the GOOD humor in Star Trek tends to be verbal. Though the equivalent scene in JJTrek, where Kirk hurts his head in the shuttle, is a bit less bad. E: Though I'm really not on good terms with Scotty's Funny Brewery Tube Adventure, I'd actually rather talk about the parts of the movie I enjoy (most), or other Round Spaceships movies. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 18:40
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Most of the people who have a problem with Trek 09 have a problem with it because it conflicts with their idea of what Trek should be, not with what it actually is. e: And by that I mean that Trek is a lot of things, not one specific thing. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 18:53
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DrNutt posted:Most of the people who have a problem with Trek 09 have a problem with it because it conflicts with their idea of what Trek should be, not with what it actually is. TOS Trek is basically Doctor Who but with a larger ship (on the outside), if anything ST09 dumping the reliance on 'canon' was basically the best way to get back to that.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:58
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I for one don't have "a problem" with JJTrek, I've never considered if it is or isn't True Trek, and if I had come to the conclusion that it isn't, so what. It's a greatly enjoyable movie, that's what it is. Besides for some scenes I could do without (young Kirk thrashing the car while listening to music my father would try to annoy his father with, Elastic Scotty in the brewery, lame red monster chasing Kirk ... I think that's it?), its main problem is that the villain is a bit on the forgettable side. Cumberbatch leaves more of an impression in the 30 seconds and 2 lines he's given in the trailer, so I'd be surprised if Into Darkness turns out to be anything but fantastic. computer parts posted:TOS Trek is basically Doctor Who but with a larger ship (on the outside), if anything ST09 dumping the reliance on 'canon' was basically the best way to get back to that. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 18:59
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Cingulate posted:Archer's much-hated dog Porthos  Porthos was the most vital crewmember.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:16
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bobkatt013 posted:Also teh entire episode of Spocks Brain.
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Feb 19, 2013 20:27
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MadScientistWorking posted:And the part where the evil twins have goatees. I don't think that's actually a thing, it's been exaggerated from, like, one example. (Spock)
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Feb 19, 2013 21:31
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Cingulate posted:young Kirk thrashing the car while listening to music my father would try to annoy his father with Did you just call "Sabotage" dad rock? What is wrong with you? thexerox123 posted:I don't think that's actually a thing, it's been exaggerated from, like, one example. (Spock) I thought evil alternate dimension Kirk also had a goatee.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:07
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PeterWeller posted:I thought evil alternate dimension Kirk also had a goatee. He doesn't, he just dresses like Aladdin.  And evil Sulu has a scar on his face.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:09
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PeterWeller posted:I thought evil alternate dimension Kirk also had a goatee. No, just a sweet vest: 
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Feb 19, 2013 22:10
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God, everything about the design of TOS ruled.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:14
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Oh, man. I forgot about that vest with the sweet fringe.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:14
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Is it canon that Kirk was always a fan of the Beastie Boys, or is that only an element of the new timeline? Also, are the Star Trek references in Beastie Boys songs replaced with references to some other show? If so, what show?
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Feb 19, 2013 22:17
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Cingulate posted:Though the equivalent scene in JJTrek, where Kirk hurts his head in the shuttle, is a bit less bad. The difference: Someone bonking their head in a cramped ship is a funny gag. Having a major character taken out of the action that way is monumentally stupid. "poo poo, we need scotty neutralized for a bit but can't think of a good way to do it. gently caress it, BONK".
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Feb 19, 2013 22:20
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MadScientistWorking posted:And the part where the evil twins have goatees. Happens in The Alternative Factor too, with the evil Lazarus's hilariously disappearing goatee.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:49
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The fact that anyone thinks "Sabotage" won't or shouldn't be playing in the future 24/7 is laughable to me.
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Feb 20, 2013 01:25
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CPFortest posted:God, everything about the design of TOS ruled. Let's not forget this one. Dammmmn, guuuuuuurl. 
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Feb 20, 2013 02:34
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Ah yes, the standard-issue Imperial communications arm torc, designed to extend the range of any voxxcaster by 2d6 inches.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:39
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Cingulate posted:young Kirk thrashing the car while listening to music my father would try to annoy his father with Oh how cute it's a wee little baby. 
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Feb 20, 2013 04:40
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korusan posted:Happens in The Alternative Factor too, with the evil Lazarus's hilariously disappearing goatee. I thought the difference between the two was the head wound on one of them.
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Feb 20, 2013 04:42
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Even if I didn't love TOS Star Trek, it would still hold a special place in my heart for teaching me more about the female form than I came across my Dad's collection of Playboys.  I unironically love basically every design choice they made in that series. And I loved probably 90 plus percent of the choices they made in Trek '09, one of the most important of which was finding a young, sexy cast (men and women both) and then showing them off. TOS was sexy as hell and it is only fitting that the remake be that as well. So many of the "fans" tend to forget all the skin on display, the slapstick humor, and all the flat out action that the series had at the beginning. Yes, there were whole episodes that were essentially submarine warfare (and they were great), but the whole series wasn't The Enterprise sneaking through a nebula after the Reliant. Yes, that movie rules. Yes, Balance of Terror was one of the best episodes, but for every slow, tense episode like that there were ten where Kirk ran around without a shirt on. The brewery scene has been well-defended here, so I won't repeat what others have said. As a guy who is obsessed enough with Star Trek that I knew Balance of Terror without having to look it up, I loving loved JJTrek and am unreasonably excited for the sequel.
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Feb 20, 2013 05:58
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Geekboy posted:So many of the "fans" tend to forget all the skin on display, the slapstick humor, and all the flat out action that the series had at the beginning. That's because so many fans are only fans of the gray tedium of Next Gen, which is the goddamn board game version of Star Trek.
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Feb 20, 2013 06:02
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penismightier posted:That's because so many fans are only fans of the gray tedium of Next Gen, which is the goddamn board game version of Star Trek. Sometimes literally! 
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Feb 20, 2013 06:03
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thexerox123 posted:Sometimes literally! Man, being Chancellor of the Klingon Empire must be awesome if you can use the Enterprise as your own personal tilt o whirl.
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Feb 20, 2013 06:43
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I'd let the whole brewery scene thing rest because it's been going on for too long now, but it seems to be implied that the only reason somebody would not like it is because it's "not real Star Trek". Which isn't my problem at all. I don't have a problem with it potentially not being in the true spirit of the series, whatever that might have been, because, who cares. I just think it's bad. The movie's fantastically enjoyable still.
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Feb 20, 2013 10:35
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I think it's that the TNG-era made people assume that 'trek' and 'good action film' are mutually exclusive fields.
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Feb 20, 2013 10:45
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The irony is that throughout their run, they kept going for TNG action movies. In contrast to TOS movies, all of the TNG movies are trying to be good action movies.
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Feb 20, 2013 10:53
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I was watching some season 7 DS9 and what occurred to me was that it'd be amazing to have a Star Trek movie depict the true horrors of starship or even planetary combat. In DS9 they throw these numbers of 7 million and 10 million casualties at you, but they never truly let those numbers sink in. They also never depict just how truly horrifying it is to die either in a planetary attack or a starship battle. Actually, none of the Star Trek series focus on that, either due to censorship or budget concerns. All you get is some canned starship explosion (and actually, in DS9's defense, space battles became a lot better in seasons 6 and 7, where ships didn't just blow up in a giant fireball, but you actually had debris flying around) and maybe some glum looking Starfleet officer letting you know the latest number of casualties. I'm sure this trend isn't going to be bucked in the upcoming film, since I guess "wahoo space battles are fun and enjoyable" sells more tickets than "war is hell", but it'd be nice if the next time Star Trek broached an epic, civilization-spanning conflict such as the Dominion war anytime soon that they'd properly depict what it truly means to be on the front lines, both in space and on colonies. DS9 certainly tried doing that a couple times, what with Jake Sisko playing reporter/medic's assistant on that one planet and then Nog playing brave soldier on that other planet, but ehhh... both attempts came across as really hollow. I think the only way to do them justice would be to either depict them in a movie or in some sort of lenient TV series along the lines of HBO or Showtime.
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Feb 20, 2013 11:06
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What would be won by doing it in space?
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Feb 20, 2013 11:10
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Show something other than consoles exploding and people flying from their chairs? Because that's literally the extent of space battles in Star Trek series so far. Maybe some non-redshirt crewmember would be like "oh god we have breaches on levels 2 and 7 but it's ok, the containment fields are holding", but yeah, that's about it. edit: Sorry, are you asking what more could happen in a conflict between starships in space? Because there are certainly more interesting ways to depict starship combat than "blammo, console explodes, Major Kira flies backwards but is helped by Lt. Worf to escape pod" and I don't know if the Star Trek 09 really touched upon them. Then again, I guess maybe it's hard to depict the fragility of the human body when 75% of the bridge crew needs to survive because they're "the good guys" and all the people that die are random redshirts. I guess trying to apply an aesthetic of something like Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan to something as inherently glamorous as Star Trek doesn't really work. It'd be nice if it did, though. edit: vv - hmm, I don't remember those moments. I really should watch ST09 again, it's been a couple of years. Smekerman fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 11:15
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Smekerman posted:Show something other than consoles exploding and people flying from their chairs? Because that's literally the extent of space battles in Star Trek series so far. Maybe some non-redshirt crewmember would be like "oh god we have breaches on levels 2 and 7 but it's ok, the containment fields are holding", but yeah, that's about it. JJtrek not only has crewmen getting sucked into space (and getting beaten the gently caress up as they are) but it has a dude get pasted to the front of his ship when he rams it. JJtrek is essentially the darkest Star Trek entry when you pay attention to it, and at the same time it has the most lighthearted humor. It was a drat good thing that entry came along.
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Feb 20, 2013 11:20
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In the opening of ST09 a woman gets sucked out a hole in the ship pretty graphically. That's probably as intense as we're gonna get from Trek. Edit: beaten.
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Feb 20, 2013 11:20
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There is a sad sad scene in Khan where the young ensign Scotty had hyped before dies after the Reliant's first attack. "He held his post" or something, and it's a perfect "war is hell" scene in the one sense of the word, where war is the necessary hell where men can show they're men. I understood you to mean that what you wanted was to have a Star Trek movie whose message was that war is a stupid, unnecessary evil, like Johnny Got His Gun or All Quiet ... I think the two Space Battles in JJTrek are both done nicely - the one at the beginning, where Kirk senior c-sections his son, and the other one where the Enterprise allows Spock to ram his IED into the Romulan Vagina Dentata. Smekerman posted:edit: Sorry, are you asking what more could happen in a conflict between starships in space? Because there are certainly more interesting ways to depict starship combat than "blammo, console explodes, Major Kira flies backwards but is helped by Lt. Worf to escape pod" and I don't know if the Star Trek 09 really touched upon them. Then again, I guess maybe it's hard to depict the fragility of the human body when 75% of the bridge crew needs to survive because they're "the good guys" and all the people that die are random redshirts. I guess trying to apply an aesthetic of something like Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan to something as inherently glamorous as Star Trek doesn't really work. It'd be nice if it did, though. cmhn74 posted:In the opening of ST09 a woman gets sucked out a hole in the ship pretty graphically. That's probably as intense as we're gonna get from Trek. The entire beginning is just good, especially the sounds. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 11:22
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Smekerman posted:They [...] never depict just how truly horrifying it is to die either in a planetary attack or a starship battle. [...] I think the only way to do them justice would be to either depict them in a movie or in some sort of lenient TV series along the lines of HBO or Showtime. In Star Trek 2009, we see people sucked out into the silent void as they suffocate. An entire, populated, Earth-like planet implodes. Kirk is nearly devoured by a screeching abomination, shortly after his hands inflate into fleshy bulbs due to the side effects of futuristic medicine. Meanwhile, back at the start of the series, Star Trek 1979 begins with a transporter accident turning a dude inside out.
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Feb 20, 2013 11:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In Star Trek 2009, we see people sucked out into the silent void as they suffocate. An entire, populated, Earth-like planet implodes. Kirk is nearly devoured by a screeching abomination, shortly after his hands inflate into fleshy bulbs due to the side effects of futuristic medicine. Meanwhile, back at the start of the series, Star Trek 1979 begins with a transporter accident turning a dude inside out. The only inhabitants of Vulcan we're shown are - Spock's dad, who gets saved - a bunch of assholes racist against humans, who die - Spock's mom, who dies and seems to be the major stand-in for Vulcan, even though she's human and a total blank The TMP transported accident (two people) is truly horrific though. Way worse body horror than any Spine/Brain Worms in JJTrek/Khan. The worst part is the dialogue. "What we got back didn't live long. Fortunately" Brrrrrrrr. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 11:28
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Yeah, I guess I'm a bit out of date on ST09, I'll re-watch it again soon. Stuff like ST 1979 is what I'm talking about though. That transporter accident was pretty horrifying and yet I think (barring ST09, which I obviously can't speak for anymore) it's the only truly horrifying moment in Star Trek movies. A lot of horrifying poo poo can happen out in space, though, is what my point was, I guess. And Cingulate, I didn't mean that I wanted a ST movie that showed "war was stupid", just something to show the true meaning of an all-out war. I have a feeling that if DS9 were released today, it'd have a closer aesthetic to Battlestar Galactica in terms of grittiness, subject matter, etc. (seeing as Ronald D. Moore was pretty involved in DS9 especially in latter seasons), but as it stands today, the Dominion War is more characterized by its interpersonal drama between Sisko, Dukat, Odo, that other changeling, etc. than it is by its sheer magnitude. Anyway, I'll shut up since this veers pretty close to TV talk. I think having a nice intergalactic war as its main storyline would make for a pretty bomb-rear end Star Trek trilogy, though. edit: Cingulate posted:No, I thought you had meant you wanted to see a "War is hell" movie whose message was that war is hell, in space. And I wondered how you thought such a movie would benefit from being set in space? Oh, I see. No, I don't think having a preachy "war is hell" message would be that fitting for Star Trek, but at the same time, I'd like for them to depict in better detail that land battles in the current era aren't just dirty space marines with a bandaged arm acting all gritty and badass, just like how space battles aren't consoles exploding and people flying from their chairs. From what you guys have said, ST09 seems to have added a bit more weight at least to the space battle side of it, so my points are kinda moot. Smekerman fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 11:33
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Oh I just remembered the most cruel scene of all the ST movies. It doesn't involve much blood, or any future technology, just some people and some rope. When Kirk and Bones investigate the space station Khan and his guys have previously raided, we see the victims face down from the 2nd level promenade, and there's a touch of blood and we see the're tied up with ropes, but it's implied that Khan did something very unnecessary and very sadistic to them. It's real space station horror. Edit: Memory Alpha! The space station is Regula I, Khan is said to have tortured the crew and then slit their throats, "including the Chief". The guy dying in fulfillment of his duty is some "Peter Preston", who was overeager to go to space. I guess you could also read him as a critique of that type of person. Only, he foreshadows what's going to happen to Spock later on. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 11:40
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Showing the girl getting blown out of the Kelvin and the engineering space exploding at the start of the film has more importance than just those scenes though because later in the film it gives you a frame of reference for when the Enterprise arrives at Vulcan in the middle of the most graphic and detailed debris field Star Trek has ever shown. Abrams shows you what happens when a Starship gets shot up, then he shows you an entire fleet that's been torn apart and invites your imagination to do the rest without a host of repetitive shots of corridors exploding.
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Feb 20, 2013 11:43
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Alchenar posted:Showing the girl getting blown out of the Kelvin and the engineering space exploding at the start of the film has more importance (And then later, there is, of course.) Smekerman posted:Oh, I see. No, I don't think having a preachy "war is hell" message would be that fitting for Star Trek, but at the same time, I'd like for them to depict in better detail that land battles in the current era aren't just dirty space marines with a bandaged arm acting all gritty and badass War in DS9 just really sucks and everybody wishes it wouldn't ever happen. (Also, Star Trek has never been in any way been anything close to realistic.) I wanted to ask how you thought a War is Hell movie would profit from being set in space. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 11:47
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