|
ConfusedUs posted:He's shown some true friendship for Malack, including apologizing for his actions and taking steps to correct the behavior. Specist.
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2013 23:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:04 |
|
|
farraday posted:Specist. I am merely limited by mainstream grammatical structure and colloquial phrasing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
Just another example of the privilege inherent in language.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 01:38
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:So did you catch the part where literally half the strip is a deconstruction of the Evil Archetype being a cartoonish sociopath that is incapable of having meaningful relationships? On the other hand, the other half of the strip is Xykon building the stereotype back up again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 03:33
|
|
|
greatn posted:To be cool and be remembered seem to be his real primary motivations. They are. That does not mean he is incapable of having a personal life. Real people all over the world balance commitments between their careers and the people they care about. wiegieman posted:On the other hand, the other half of the strip is Xykon building the stereotype back up again. True, but Xykon is part of the deconstruction; he's the straight man of the villainous cast, so to speak. He also gets a good bit more depth in the ancillary works like Start of Darkness. He is and always will be a classic Sociopathic Evil Guy, but Rich does an excellent job of exploring what kind of person would actually result in a being like Xykon exiting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 05:23
|
|
|
So, the logical end result of the story is that Xykon's gonna die, somehow, someway. How do y'all think it's going to happen? Roy's sword? The Snarl? Belkar?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 05:33
|
|
|
rotinaj posted:So, the logical end result of the story is that Xykon's gonna die, somehow, someway. I'm going to bet either "Dark One" or "Snarl", by way of "attempting to foil The Plan". Not because he suddenly goes good, but out of spite.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 05:38
|
|
|
rotinaj posted:So, the logical end result of the story is that Xykon's gonna die, somehow, someway. Have you not read Start of Darkness? It happened already.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 06:17
|
|
|
I don't think Redcloak is going to let Xykon die with style in some climactic battle. He'll just offhandedly wreck him when he has what he needs, if only for the blow to his ego.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 07:00
|
|
|
greatn posted:I never saw him as that developed in the first place. The entire chapter I've never seen him express anything except smug amusement and self satisfaction at how awesome he is. He's just a narcissist, having a vampire lizard thing friend helps fulfill his political goals and his ability to make himself look cooler. To be cool and be remembered seem to be his real primary motivations. If you're actively trying to read his every word as 'part of the master plan', then I guess that's your business, but http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html e: wiegieman posted:I don't think Redcloak is going to let Xykon die with style in some climactic battle. He'll just offhandedly wreck him when he has what he needs, if only for the blow to his ego. Well, Xykon's due for a disappointment when he finds out Redcloak's ritual won't give him jack poo poo, and this is a plan he's turned into a skeleton for. He's already suspicious of Redcloak, and has been since Azure City; he tasked Tsukiko on reverse engineering the ritual, and if he honestly didn't understand it, he probably wouldn't have lied to Redcloak about it. When he finds out he's been conned, Xykon's going to be really, really angry. He's removed souls from the cycle of life and death for less. Heatwizard fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Mar 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 07:03
|
|
|
rotinaj posted:So, the logical end result of the story is that Xykon's gonna die, somehow, someway. Suicide. Probably explosive. Because if he's got to go, he's going to blow everyone up and screw THEM over too. Assuming he gets weakened to the point that he realises he IS gonna die without a means to get out of it, rather than being one-shot. Or he'll find some other way of screwing everyone up via his death. Also 'I will not lose to your fist!'. He's that sort of person, from what I've seen(No side books, currently).
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 07:19
|
|
|
I think Xykon is already preparing for Redcloak's sudden inevitable betrayal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 07:20
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I think Xykon is already preparing for Redcloak's sudden inevitable betrayal. He has from the start of Darkness  .
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 07:42
|
|
|
Redcloak offs Xykon when he realizes Xykon has modified the ritual to give him complete control of the snarl and that Gobbotopia has been unilaterally accepted as a real nation and Goblins as real people. And he will loving like it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 09:55
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I think Xykon is already preparing for Redcloak's sudden inevitable betrayal. He is, I just don't think he's realised the magnitude of it or the fact it's been all been a lie from the very beginning.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 10:00
|
|
|
You know it's interesting, OOTS coming back (and the return of actual discussion here) has driven me to re-read OOTS from the beginning for the third or so time. I never noticed this before, but despite the fact that the party starts out as walking D&D rulebook jokes he actually starts developing them fairly early on by having each one go through some kind of personal problem; Durkon gets separated from the group and has sex with the evil Dwarven cleric, Haley gets separated when she's kidnapped by the nerd goblin, Elan gets kidnapped by bandits in the forest, and V gets turned into a lizard, Roy's arc is the main plot and Belkar is the joke character (well, not exactly anymore, but you know what I mean). All of it happens fairly early on before the main plot's really kicked into high gear which basically begins when Miko shows up and each little sideplot is very quick and not especially deep, but just by virtue of letting each party member shine in their own way it really establishes the team dynamic, and makes it hit that much harder later on when V goes mad with power or Durkon is turned undead. Even early on when they're still making corny jokes every panel, it gets you to care about and like the characters in some way. Basically, this is a long-winded way of saying Rich Is Good At Storytelling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 10:11
|
|
|
Affi posted:Redcloak offs Xykon when he realizes Xykon has modified the ritual to give him complete control of the snarl and that Gobbotopia has been unilaterally accepted as a real nation and Goblins as real people. And he will loving like it. Unilaterally means only involving one side. This would be the case if Gobbotopia declared independence and the majority of the world refused to recognize it. This is not what Redcloak wants.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 13:10
|
|
|
V is kind of worthless at the moment. It's like every bad thing happening to the party right now is directly V's fault. Well, part V's, part Roy's. Roy's an idiot for letting their mage run off in the first place. If he had put in the  to follow V instead of being all "I don't need this poo poo right now" they never would have been separated by some lame magical trap.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 13:25
|
|
|
greatn posted:If he had put in the You're expecting a lot from a warrior who jumped onto an undead dragon to have a sword fight with the lich sorcerer that can destroy an army of paladins on his own. The more important thing to remember, regarding killing Xykon: Who is going to destroy his phylactery? He can't die if Redcloak is alive and still on his side. If Redcloak destroys it off-panel, that'd be kinda lame, but if he was going to do it in the comic, he'd probably have done it by now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 14:32
|
|
|
nimby posted:You're expecting a lot from a warrior who jumped onto an undead dragon to have a sword fight with the lich sorcerer that can destroy an army of paladins on his own. If Xykon is destroyed and then regenerates NOT in his interdimensional castle I imagine Redcloak would have a little but of explaining to do.(then again Redcloak might have access to it anyway)
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:04
|
|
|
Killing Xykon, though, makes Redcloak (and the phylactery) a lot more vulnerable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:07
|
|
|
Would Xykon know if Redcloak destroys his phylactery? I mean, besides that possibly being one of the wards on it, is there any way a lich would know, "hey, my soul's back in my body, that's not good"? (Can't remember if you still have to destroy the lich one last time after the phylactery, or if that would immediately end him.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:31
|
|
|
The soul is in Xykon until he's destroyed, at which point it goes to the phylactery.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:34
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Would Xykon know if Redcloak destroys his phylactery? I mean, besides that possibly being one of the wards on it, is there any way a lich would know, "hey, my soul's back in my body, that's not good"? (Can't remember if you still have to destroy the lich one last time after the phylactery, or if that would immediately end him.) The way I always understood it (I know very little about D&D) is that even after you destroy the phylactery, you still have the actual Lich to deal with, only he won't respawn if the artifact is destroyed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:36
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Would Xykon know if Redcloak destroys his phylactery? I mean, besides that possibly being one of the wards on it, is there any way a lich would know, "hey, my soul's back in my body, that's not good"? (Can't remember if you still have to destroy the lich one last time after the phylactery, or if that would immediately end him.) Pretty sure the lich needs have its body destroyed at the time the phylactery is destroyed or else another phylactery can be made. Since the phylactery can be pretty much anywhere this makes killing liches pretty hard.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:37
|
|
|
I thought the Lich can have seven phylacteries and basically the only thing that can stop him is some high school kids.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:40
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure a lich is just one. A demilich has the 8 soul gems that also act like phylacteries because they were specifically designed to be total bastards.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
e: ^^^^^^^ yeah, but those gems are inside the demilich's body at least, so you don't need to find them. If Xykon ends up in the phylactery, can you guys think of any way Redcloak might exploit his position to make him more pliable? Any promises extorted from him while he's helpless wouldn't be worth anything, and I can't think of a way to build a prison in 1d10 days that's capable of holding a guy who can cast (Still!) supreme dispelling. Unless the wards of the astral castle can be cleverly 'hacked' to keep people in rather than out, which would be deliciously ironic, but if you're going to lock him so far out of the way you might as well just smash the phylactery instead. If I were playing Redcloak in a campaign, I would cast gate to the realm of the Dark One and get him to put some divine-level version of geas/quest on Xykon's soul, but that's probably too deus (literally!) ex machina for OotS. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Mar 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:45
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:e: ^^^^^^^ yeah, but those gems are inside the demilich's body at least, so you don't need to find them. Stone to mud. Bury phylactery. Mud to stone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
Redcloak's already had Xykon in the phylactery. He's not betraying him until the a gate is in hand and secure.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:00
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Redcloak's already had Xykon in the phylactery. He's not betraying him until the a gate is in hand and secure.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:06
|
|
|
I just realized that xykon will discover the double cross by dying. He will respawn next to redcloak and not in his pocket dimension.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:10
|
|
|
ikanreed posted:I just realized that xykon will discover the double cross by dying. He will respawn next to redcloak and not in his pocket dimension. It takes him weeks to go from a voice in the phylactery to a fully-formed skeleton, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:21
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Redcloak's already had Xykon in the phylactery. He's not betraying him until the a gate is in hand and secure. The relationship between Xykon and Redcloak has deteriorated dramatically in the interim, and both of them are aware of it. Switching the Phylacteries was crossing a threshold for Redcloak; he is now prepared to make his end-game betrayal of Xykon. Relevantly, his betrayal will also be revealed to Xykon in the event that his body is destroyed, which would probably force his hand on the matter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:32
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Redcloak's already had Xykon in the phylactery. He's not betraying him until the a gate is in hand and secure. Redcloak now has Gobbotopia to return to, has had Tsukiko try to steal his ritual (on Xykon's orders) and he might want his eye back. He'll still want Xykon around for the gate-scheme, but I don't think he'd terribly mind if Xykon was out of the picture completely. Dude's way too strong now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:37
|
|
|
Xykon didn't order Tsukiko to steal the ritual, that was her operating on her own deluded prerogative. Xykon didn't appear to really even care when Redcloak announced that he'd killed Tsukiko, and he's not exactly a dude with a lot of ranks in Bluff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:51
|
|
|
Pope Guilty posted:Xykon didn't order Tsukiko to steal the ritual, that was her operating on her own deluded prerogative. Xykon didn't appear to really even care when Redcloak announced that he'd killed Tsukiko, and he's not exactly a dude with a lot of ranks in Bluff. I'm pretty sure he gave Tsukiko the arcane half and asked her to figure it out. She broke in to look at the divine half but it's attached to the cloak so she couldn't learn it and then she threatened Redcloak so he killed her because letting her live would be stupid.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
Also, as a Sorcerer, Xykon has Charisma out the rear end, and as an evil Sorcerer, he's got no reason not to max his Bluff. The fact that usually he's too powerful to care about lying to people now doesn't mean he didn't need to do it a lot earlier in his career when he didn't always have overwhelming force. I think it's a mistake to assume that Xykon can't lie really well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 17:31
|
|
|
rotinaj posted:So, the logical end result of the story is that Xykon's gonna die, somehow, someway. Mr. Scruffy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 17:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 06:04 |
|
|
Xykon didn't even know there was another half to the ritual he was given, and it doesn't seem like Tsukiko had time to explain her findings to him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2013 18:39
|
|