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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This is exactly what Misato (and by extension the bridge crew of the Wunder) are telling him. Ritsuko even advocates killing him. The only people who aren't either telling him "give up and never do anything again," "die," or "pilot the robot" are Asuka and I guess Sakura if she's in any way significant. I guess I should rephrase "people who Shinji has reason to listen to." The exception there is Misato but the very fact that she chose not to kill him is a pretty clear indication that Misato's cold attitude is not actually matching her true feelings. Shinji (and frankly everyone) would be better off if Misato could voice that, but if Misato was better about talking she wouldn't be a massive alcoholic and hate-sleeping with Kaji. I mean Misato is the queen of bad decisions. She encourages Shinji in 2.0 and discourages him in 3.0 and both times it's the wrong decision, but that's what Misato does. She's a fantastic battlefield commander and a nice person who is remarkably bad at interpersonal relationships. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 03:12
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I guess I feel like it's just expecting too much from an individual, especially a teenager, you know? Unless they have an outstanding amount of patience and forgiveness in their heart, a person who has been screwed over so badly in life isn't magically going to care about how their actions affect other people and society in general just because it's the ~right thing to do~ (and the very definition of right/wrong can be argued endlessly, particularly in the context of Eva), they have to have a reason. They have to have a stake in the world and some measure faith in humanity, which can be hard for anyone at times, but especially so for Shinji loving Ikari, where other human beings arguably cause him more pain and strife than the loving Angels do. This goes all the way back to EoE where it was ultimately the machinations of SEELE and the human soldiers serving them that turned NERV into a godawful bloodbath and caused Third Impact. It just seems like everything would have been 1000% better if grown adults in charge of a worldwide paramilitary organization commanding weapons of untold power didn't treat the 14-year-old rookie like a meat puppet and then get mad at him when he inevitably fucks up... and if they really can't save the world without abusing children, maybe the Angels should win. 
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Apr 29, 2013 03:19
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At least in the original series, the Rei is synonymous with total obedience to Gendo (hence why her betrayal in EoE is so shocking to him). So the Dummy Plus being back-up Rei clones are significant in that sense. Gendo IIRC exclaims at one point during the Zeruel battle that Unit-01 is "rejecting him" when it refuses to start up with either Rei or the Dummy Plug. Basically he may or may not have direct control, but it can probably be considered an extension of his will. At the very least, he could have probably deactivated before it crushed the entry plug in 18.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:20
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I feel like not much actually happened in this movie, and most of what did happen, I didn't understand. I don't think I've ever been genuinely confused by an Eva product before, but I certainly am now.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:22
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Feranon posted:I guess I feel like it's just expecting too much from an individual, especially a teenager, you know? Unless they have an outstanding amount of patience and forgiveness in their heart, a person who has been screwed over so badly in life isn't magically going to care about how their actions affect other people and society in general just because it's the ~right thing to do~ (and the very definition of right/wrong can be argued endlessly, particularly in the context of Eva), they have to have a reason. They have to have a stake in the world and some measure faith in humanity, which can be hard for anyone at times, but especially so for Shinji loving Ikari, where other human beings arguably cause him more pain and strife than the loving Angels do. This goes all the way back to EoE where it was ultimately the machinations of SEELE and the human soldiers serving them that turned NERV into a godawful bloodbath and caused Third Impact. It just seems like everything would have been 1000% better if grown adults in charge of a worldwide paramilitary organization commanding weapons of untold power didn't treat the 14-year-old rookie like a meat puppet and then get mad at him when he inevitably fucks up... and if they really can't save the world without abusing children, maybe the Angels should win. Well, it's a case where it is completely understandable that someone's history has caused them to act in a certain way, but that doesn't change the fact that they are existing in the same world as other people. We can understand and empathize with someone who has had a terrible life and does the only thing that makes sense to their mindset, but when that thing hurts other people, it becomes something beyond their own pain and starts becoming something damaging. Where Shinji is to blame is that he took action with the explicit acknowledgement that he did not care how it hurt others. That, more than anything, is a big part of what Rebuild seems to be about to me. Shinji's suffered and in turn he ended up in a situation where he hurt others. Not with malicious intent but simply through self-interest at the cost of all else, and that's the same attitude that the adults in Evangelion have and which the younger characters seem to reject. Gendo is basically one logical extreme of that mindset, and getting into arguments about "Well, Shinji is more justified" doesn't really matter because Gendo clearly believes his own justifications are enough. I think that Anno as of EoE would agree with you, but Rebuild is specifically a rejection of the EoE mindset. It's certainly dragging Shinji down low but (and the interview from earlier seems to back this up) the eventual ending is probably going to be hopeful and happy. Edit: I should also add that I don't really agree with everything that (at least to me) the film is saying, but just this is how it comes across to me and what it is trying to say. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 03:31
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To hell with, you know, wherever all of this is going, though I love that it's almost impossible to predict where exactly that is. I want the fourth movie to be about all of the ludicrous poo poo that apparently went down during that time skip. Some of those shots are so abstract that they're difficult to even begin to process. I need to take screencaps and just stare at them for awhile. e: also I agree with the post below mine. Hell most of the people on the ground at the end of the second movie didn't seem to know what was happening. Misato was actively encouraging him. They had already flown way past the point of anything making sense and I don't see how you could expect Shinji of all people to know what he was doing any more than we the viewers knew what he was doing. see you tomorrow fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 03:45
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It seems like people are looking at what Shinji did in 2.22 as making a choice to save Rei at the cost of dooming everyone else. I never really saw that Shinji was explicitly or even implicitly presented with such a choice. The Evas and things like Instrumentality are so outside of his (and similarly just about everyone else's) understanding that I don't see how he could have been aware that what he was doing would cause Third Impact. If you shoot someone who's taken a family member hostage and it detonates a nuke because his heart was triggered to a deadman switch that no one knew was there, you aren't choosing to kill anyone who dies to the nuke, you aren't being reckless, and you aren't even negligent, because the result is utterly unforeseeable. Saying that he doesn't care what happens to the world as long as he can save her isn't the same as choosing to drat the world; as far as he knew getting Rei out of there was the same as saving the world because the Angel would be defeated.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:56
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ImpAtom posted:Edit: I should also add that I don't really agree with everything that (at least to me) the film is saying, but just this is how it comes across to me and what it is trying to say. That's fine, because I'm the same way. I understand what Anno wants to say (as much as you can with that guy at least) about otaku, about his journey in life, and about Eva and it's cultural impact. I just don't agree with it entirely or think that it's the only valid basis from which to analyze Eva. Instead of worrying about Shinji's maturity or how he treats others, I'd rather turn the spotlight on the adults in the setting and tear them a new one for being so awful. Most of them have the self-awareness to know that they're awful, too, and they just keep right on truckin'. It's really hard to overstate how much the grownups in Eva just loving suck. If Shinji is a selfish dickwad at any point, he's just following their example.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:00
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Paracelsus posted:It seems like people are looking at what Shinji did in 2.22 as making a choice to save Rei at the cost of dooming everyone else. I never really saw that Shinji was explicitly or even implicitly presented with such a choice. The Evas and things like Instrumentality are so outside of his (and similarly just about everyone else's) understanding that I don't see how he could have been aware that what he was doing would cause Third Impact. If you shoot someone who's taken a family member hostage and it detonates a nuke because his heart was triggered to a deadman switch that no one knew was there, you aren't choosing to kill anyone who dies to the nuke, you aren't being reckless, and you aren't even negligent, because the result is utterly unforeseeable. I don't think it was a case of "Shinji could save Rei but doom everyone else" but "Shinji was willing to do whatever it takes to Rei, regardless of the consequences, and didn't consider or understand what the consequences might be." As we see in 3.0, he doesn't agree with that on retrospect, as most people don't. Hindsight is 20-20 and Shinji wouldn't make the same decisions in the same situation. But as we see, he makes the same mistake in a new situation because he didn't actually learn from his mistake. (Also, rather amusingly, what you pointed out is actually the plot of the new Injustice fighting game, and a huge chunk of it boils down to Superman blaming himself for being tricked into setting off the nuke.) Feranon posted:That's fine, because I'm the same way. I understand what Anno wants to say (as much as you can with that guy at least) about otaku, about his journey in life, and about Eva and it's cultural impact. I just don't agree with it entirely or think that it's the only valid basis from which to analyze Eva. Instead of worrying about Shinji's maturity or how he treats others, I'd rather turn the spotlight on the adults in the setting and tear them a new one for being so awful. Most of them have the self-awareness to know that they're awful, too, and they just keep right on truckin'. It's really hard to overstate how much the grownups in Eva just loving suck. If Shinji is a selfish dickwad at any point, he's just following their example. My general feeling is that, especially after 3.0, Evangelion is about Shinji. The adults are terrible people but there isn't a lot to say about them. They certainly suck and they're likely to continue to suck until they die or undergo a dramatic transformation. Shinji (And to a lesser extent the Eva pilots) are the ones who are open to the possibility of becoming something else. There's just not a lot to say about the adults, they've chosen their path and they suck at it.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:12
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ImpAtom posted:they suck at it. I dunno, Gendo seems pretty good at doing... whatever he is actually supposed to be doing in Rebuild. Something Yui related most likely, but perhaps not the same Yui related thing as before.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:15
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Well that was an Evangelion movie, alright. I just... Didn't it felt kinda wanting? Like, I know a shitload of bombs were dropped on us as an audience, and that people are in deep poo poo, but it felt more like a slightly grimmer rehash than a proper continuation of 2.0 and-- I was kinda bored. gently caress, there's something wrong with me, isn't it? 
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Apr 29, 2013 04:19
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I'm confused about the "movie Q" stuff. Is that just an alternate name for 3? So || is just 4? Did the first two have alternate names? I don't remember anything like that in those.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:22
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think it was a case of "Shinji could save Rei but doom everyone else" but "Shinji was willing to do whatever it takes to Rei, regardless of the consequences, and didn't consider or understand what the consequences might be." As we see in 3.0, he doesn't agree with that on retrospect, as most people don't. Hindsight is 20-20 and Shinji wouldn't make the same decisions in the same situation. But as we see, he makes the same mistake in a new situation because he didn't actually learn from his mistake. This is all hugely complicated by us not really understanding exactly what he did, the manner by which his choices were translated into action, and the extent to which the result was actually a result of his choice and not other factors he had no knowledge of or control over.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:22
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Sindai posted:I'm confused about the "movie Q" stuff. Is that just an alternate name for 3? So || is just 4? Did the first two have alternate names? I don't remember anything like that in those. The Q stands for "quickening" apparently. It also sounds the same as kyu, finishing the jo-ha-kyu thing from the first two movies. I dunno what the deal is with those two pipes for Final, though
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Apr 29, 2013 04:27
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Sindai posted:I'm confused about the "movie Q" stuff. Is that just an alternate name for 3? So || is just 4? Did the first two have alternate names? I don't remember anything like that in those. :| is musical notation for repeat, and I believe :|| is repeat once then end? Anno being mysterious.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:29
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DerLeo posted::| is musical notation for repeat, and I believe :|| is repeat once then end? Anno being mysterious. Well that makes sense then. I should've been a band geek 
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Apr 29, 2013 04:31
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To elaborate further, the first two movies were "Evangelion: Jo" and "Evangelion: Ha", and then they opted for a "Q" pun for the third one. Jo-Ha-Kyuu is some sort of Noh play structure thing. The TV series had alternate names for every episode too, including the movies. I guess it's just something Anno likes to do.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:32
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Feranon posted:The Q stands for "quickening" apparently. It also sounds the same as kyu, finishing the jo-ha-kyu thing from the first two movies. I dunno what the deal is with those two pipes for Final, though Musical notation. Means "repeat."
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Apr 29, 2013 04:32
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Sindai posted:I'm confused about the "movie Q" stuff. Is that just an alternate name for 3? So || is just 4? Did the first two have alternate names? I don't remember anything like that in those. Each of the rebuild films had a thing like that. 1 was "prelude", 2 was "break", 3 was Q for quickening, and 4 is 𝄇.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:35
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Isn't it somewhat unknown for sure at this point whether it'd a double barline (representing "End") or whether it's including the colon, making it an "End-then-Repeat" sign? After all, all of the other movies had a colon in them as well. But of course I wouldn't put it past Anno to be that quirky. I bet they never confirm which one it is, since you could glean quite a different meaning on what to expect between the two symbols.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:43
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Finally got around to watching 3.0. It was dumb as hell, but more fun than I was expecting. Not as good as 2.0 in my opinion.
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Apr 29, 2013 05:48
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I reckon 4 won't explain much of the 2.0 to 3.0 gap. Also it would be hilarious if it instead covers the gap between End of Eva and Rebuild Anyway though a friend of mine is espousing a rather interesting theory that I haven't heard anywhere on the net, not sure if I believe this or not: The planned timeskip was lengthened after they realised that Eva SELLS big time. They have basically created a Shinji free period in the timeline of Rebuild where a whole shitload of stuff happened that all the fans will want to know about, that they can use as a setting for games and other materials, possibly even a new SERIES of the show. The ensuing material won't be burdened by strictly requiring relevance to Shinji's personal journey and also won't piss off the "Shinji is annoying" crowd due to his complete absence, even as many of the other popular characters are still present within it.
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Apr 29, 2013 06:01
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lodoubt posted:Anyway though a friend of mine is espousing a rather interesting theory that I haven't heard anywhere on the net, not sure if I believe this or not: The planned timeskip was lengthened after they realised that Eva SELLS big time. They have basically created a Shinji free period in the timeline of Rebuild where a whole shitload of stuff happened that all the fans will want to know about, that they can use as a setting for games and other materials, possibly even a new SERIES of the show. The ensuing material won't be burdened by strictly requiring relevance to Shinji's personal journey and also won't piss off the "Shinji is annoying" crowd due to his complete absence, even as many of the other popular characters are still present within it. I honestly wouldn't be opposed to this, since there's so much that happened that completely changed everything. They could at least give us a manga special that gives us a quick rundown.
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Apr 29, 2013 06:17
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Blah blah that was kind of a letdown compared to Eva 2.0. I did like how Anno found a way to make instrumentality horrifying again. Maybe I'm just weird (yes), but I found instrumentality as it was depicted in EoE as not exactly comforting, but an interesting depiction of purgatory in the sense of an existence where people could examine themselves. 3.0 completely shatters that by delving into full Cronenburg style in having the population of Tokyo-3 forcibly evolve into writhing masses of evangelions which appear to have died as quickly as they turned if that Kaworu-Shinji montage shows. That much was actually understandable, and then that skull graveyard around Lilith and the cubicized red Evangelions ("they have failed to reach infinity") forming the walls of the entrance to Terminal Dogma just opened up another can of  . Anno can still shock at least, if that's what anyone's looking forward to in 4.0.
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Apr 29, 2013 06:44
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I enjoyed the 3rd movie, and I think it's a little unfair to hate on Shinji. As far as the civilians on Wunder are concerned, I see nothing wrong with them hating Shinji. The world has perfect justification to hate Shinji Ikari. They didn't know his circumstances, they never needed to. All they need to know is that the current world is his doing. As for NERV, this is a completely different story. Jesus Christ they should all be dragged out back and shot. At no point in this movie do they tell Shinji a drat thing. Saying "ignorance is no excuse" is bullshit, since APPARENTLY a lot of things have changed. TELL Shinji that NERV is now up to no good. TELL Shinji that Gendo is going to try to get him to do something bad. TELL Shinji anything relevant about the upcoming events. Instead you yank him out of a robot, put a bomb collar on him and poo poo all over him. Call Shinji a child, but when the only thing that makes sense is how your father treats you, what the gently caress else are you supposed to do? This movie was just a ridiculously elaborate setup for the big finale. I still had fun with it, but up until the last ten minutes I spent the entirety of the movie just feeling horrible for Shinji.
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Apr 29, 2013 07:14
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ImpAtom posted:Huh, good to know. So yeah, it ain't Gendo. It's the Dummy Plug (or maybe the Evangelion itself?) The quote can only be from an artifical being for the quote to make sense though considering its source. It's probably the Dummy Plug; it's not Shinji or anyone at NERV, so it's either the Plug or Unit 01 herself, and she's brutal but not as bestial as she is when she berserks. This also makes Rei more like Gendo's puppet. Regarding the photo: I don't think it can be Mari. She would have had to be piloting Unit 00 before Yui's contact experiment, which I think was the first successful one. Even if it wasn't Unit 00 is only a little older than Unit 01. And Angels: The 13th Angel may be dead, but Sachiel was the 4th in Rebuild, not the 3rd after Adam and Lilith. So there still could be an Angel in 4, possibly Lilin again or responsible for those bloodstains on the Moon.
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Apr 29, 2013 08:36
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House Louse posted:And Angels: The 13th Angel may be dead, but Sachiel was the 4th in Rebuild, not the 3rd after Adam and Lilith. So there still could be an Angel in 4, possibly Lilin again or responsible for those bloodstains on the Moon. We see the new 3rd Angel in the fight that introduces Mari in 2.0. It was a skeletal dragon-like Angel she fought in a tunnel system in the testbed EVA that was equpide with a giant drill. The one that seems to be missing is the 11th Angel. If they all appeared in order then the 11th showed up while Shinji was trapped in the events surrounding Third Impact. Thinking about Third Impact has me wondering how it works out so they can lay so much blame on Shinji. At the end of 2.0 he opens the Gate of Guf, but it's pretty quickly closed by Kaworu in Unit 06 spearing Unit 01. At some point Unit 06, seemingly now not piloted by Kaworu and possibly already the 12th Angel, is able to penetrate Central Dogma. Then Third Impact begins or continues, but is halted by someone putting two spears into Unit 06 and Lilith. While it's all very nebulous, it's hard to see how Shinji's very brief awakening could be the key factor in all of this, more so than anyone elses actions, because we see it ended at the close of 2.0 with some events we know happened having not occured yet. And yet the hate towards Shinji is so severe it can't just be a result of him having not been around to help stop things. Unless Unit 06 and Lilith had nothing to do with Third Impact and all the deaths occured in the short timespan between the Gate of Guf opening and closing, but that seems unlikely. When Kaworu brings Shinji out to see the results of Third Impact he tells Shinji that Lilin calls his awakening 'Near-Third Impact' when earlier in the conversation he states Third Impact occured while Shinji was trapped in Unit 01. It's ambiguous, but it seems to me that Shinji's awakening wasn't Third Impact, it was just a very important catalyst, but I don't see how in a way that leaves Shinji's action with so much of the blame. cafel fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 09:09
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cafel posted:We see the new 3rd Angel in the fight that introduces Mari in 2.0. It was a skeletal dragon-like Angel she fought in a tunnel system in the testbed EVA that was equpide with a giant drill. The one that seems to be missing is the 11th Angel. If they all appeared in order then the 11th showed up while Shinji was trapped in the events surrounding Third Impact. Dammit, I honestly was not all that interested in what happened during the timeskip until you pointed all of this out  Now I wanna know how exactly it washed out. How long was it before Misato's Bodacious Space Rebels broke it off with Nerv? What was the impetus? Did Kaji give her the dirt and then die again? How exactly did Shinji get locked in that space cross? Was that the reason Misato went rogue? How did that Angel get inside of the Mk 6? Kaworu said that it was all hosed up from overuse, but how could that be the case if they fought maybe TWO angels max while Shinji was locked up? And does that meant that Kaworu fought alongside Asuka and Mari before the counter-reformation? There were a lot of regular battleships in the flotilla from before the Wunder launched--did Misato manage to turn the entire world against Nerv? Were Kaworu and a bunch of Rei clones the ones keeping Gendou from being gunned down by angry UN troops in a hilarious reversal of EOE? I'm probably just going to go to bed later and forget all about those questions though
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Apr 29, 2013 10:46
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Eva is one of the first anime series I ever got into, I saved my money to buy the overpriced VHS tapes and spent about a year collecting them all. One of my favorite memories of the series is watching the episode where Shinji is fighting the 14th angel, after all this time I remember his number but goddamn if I can remember his name. Im talking about toilet paper arms, the one that just busts through NERVs defenses without blinking an eye. Anyway, Im watching the episode in my room, or the rec room, or something, and my dad comes in and joins me. Hes always been a scifi fan, so he gets into the episode as Rei and Asuka both are dispatched by the Angel. When Shinji gets up to fight, were both pretty tense, even though I know whats going to happen. Then, the battery dies and Eva-01 goes dead, and my dad breaks down into the biggest fit of laughter Ive ever seen him in. For some reason he thought Shinji helplessly loving with the controls was the funniest thing in the world. I always liked that moment.
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Apr 29, 2013 10:47
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Shinjobi posted:I enjoyed the 3rd movie, and I think it's a little unfair to hate on Shinji. As far as the civilians on Wunder are concerned, I see nothing wrong with them hating Shinji. The world has perfect justification to hate Shinji Ikari. They didn't know his circumstances, they never needed to. All they need to know is that the current world is his doing. As for NERV, this is a completely different story. Jesus Christ they should all be dragged out back and shot. At no point in this movie do they tell Shinji a drat thing. Saying "ignorance is no excuse" is bullshit, since APPARENTLY a lot of things have changed. TELL Shinji that NERV is now up to no good. TELL Shinji that Gendo is going to try to get him to do something bad. TELL Shinji anything relevant about the upcoming events. Instead you yank him out of a robot, put a bomb collar on him and poo poo all over him. Call Shinji a child, but when the only thing that makes sense is how your father treats you, what the gently caress else are you supposed to do? Well, the entire point of EVA is that Shinji is in this big world with an enormity of things going on behind the scenes and in his face, and he only needs to be asked the right questions/ask the right questions to rise above his angst and feelings of inferiority and neglect, yet it never happens. A story of how depression and loneliness buries you. I felt like this movie was mostly a barrage of self-referential eye candy, to be honest. I fell off the train, so to speak. Maybe it will look better when put together with the final movie as a whole. Also the enduring irony of spending shitloads of resources having angsty teenagers pilot giant robots that can literally reshape reality yet never educating them about the possible consequences of their actions. When the weakest link of your amazing scheming, engineering and military organization efforts is a mentally unstable human being that is indispensable, MAYBE you should hire a psychologist. But there are no adults in Evangelion. SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 10:56
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I wouldn't be surprised if the 4th movie turns out to be 1 1/2 hours of high school hijinks set in the Girlfriend of Steel universe and ends with a cut to Anno rolling around in a big pile of money. I actually think that would be massively successful and just fire up enthusiasm for a new series. Do it in the final season of Lost-style where it alternates between wacky school comedy and brutal soul crushing despair. edit: The wiki article no longer has it, but I remember references being made to Evangelion being a "billion dollar franchise" and how the original production was set up for failure so the producers could cash out via some creative and illegal book-keeping, but the massive success ended up with them getting caught and prosecuted for it. Is any of that true or was it just speculation and hearsay that made it into the wiki page? pentyne fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 10:59
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How the hell do you cause two near impacts and survive them both? Holy poo poo protagonist powers. That was a beautiful song for the credits sequence, by the way.
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Apr 29, 2013 11:00
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That was a beautiful film. I'm still not entirely sure what happened, but god knows I enjoyed it.
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Apr 29, 2013 11:15
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OnimaruXLR posted:Dammit, I honestly was not all that interested in what happened during the timeskip until you pointed all of this out That's probably for the best, given the track record of the series I doubt we'll have many if any answers. Even as a dumb teen I quickly realized the minutia of the background events in Evangelion aren't important. I'm just curious about the question I posed because it actually relates directly to Shinji. If I was going to ask general questions raised by the 3.0 the biggest would be What is this series version of the Human Instrumentality Project? Kaworu suggest that it's killing or changing all life on Earth to allow for the creation of the next evolutionary step, either biologically or spiritually. The ruined scenery seems to imply this involved turning most or all of the humans in the area around NERV Headquarters into EVAs, with some or all of them failing and dying. This seems significantly different then EoE Instrumentality. But the event was interrupted before it could engulf the world. The number of surviving humans on Earth after Third Impact isn't revealed, but enough people and infrastucture remain in the world to supply the sizable fleet led by Misato. But this failure is all according to SEELE and Gendo's plans, as is the failure of Fourth Impact. So if the results of Third Impact weren't Instumentality, then what could it actually be and why are aborted Third and Fourth Impacts necessary? Why is SEELE so accepting of Gendo's alternate plan and is that plan still some form of resurrection of Yui or is it something different this time around? Again, not stuff I'm going to dwell over in the series, but stuff that's kind of knocking around my brain.
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Apr 29, 2013 11:41
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cafel posted:We see the new 3rd Angel in the fight that introduces Mari in 2.0. It was a skeletal dragon-like Angel she fought in a tunnel system in the testbed EVA that was equpide with a giant drill. The one that seems to be missing is the 11th Angel. If they all appeared in order then the 11th showed up while Shinji was trapped in the events surrounding Third Impact. Thanks. 11th Angel is those artificial Angels, maybe? cafel posted:But this failure is all according to SEELE and Gendo's plans, as is the failure of Fourth Impact. So if the results of Third Impact weren't Instumentality, then what could it actually be and why are aborted Third and Fourth Impacts necessary? Why is SEELE so accepting of Gendo's alternate plan and is that plan still some form of resurrection of Yui or is it something different this time around? Linking this and you earlier post on why everyone hates Shinji, maybe failed Third/Fourth Impacts are necessary for proper Instrumentality? Or maybe WILLE just don't know or care what happened and assume Shinji's responsible? SEELE might not be really bothered as long as they get tanged - in EoE their last words were more like "At last!" than "gently caress you, Gendo!". I doubt we'll ever get a "proper" answer about Instrumentality though. It's not really his style is it?
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Apr 29, 2013 12:39
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SatansBestBuddy posted:I know Hellsing managed to pump out at least 10 of those. Speaking of which, I found out the other day that iTunes has the entire Ultimate OVA series on it for $2.99 per OVA in HD (I'd completely lost track of that series waiting for 6-8 to come out over here on DVD back when it went on hiatus).
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Apr 29, 2013 14:34
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Well, I didn't understand poo poo, but looking at the preview, I say I'm ready for more fanservice and EVA CQC. Seriously though, I have so many questions : What's with the thousands of HUGE skulls in the NERV basement? Why does Asuka have some sort of demon eye that sometimes can be seen through her eyepatch? Why didn't they age? Why was Shinji in that weird three dimensional cross shaped satellite? What was SEELE's objective? Were they AIs? Is Anno just making fun of us at this point?
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Apr 29, 2013 15:24
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Just some quick thoughts about 3.33: It was certainly an aural/visual treat, but I felt like it was just treading water in terms of moving the story in any particular direction. I don't think there was enough time passing during the film to develop the characters while in the first and second film, it took place over weeks/months. I will admit that half of the time I had my mouth open at the near-insanity happening on-screen with all of the large-scale destruction and transformation scenes. Here's the thing, though. Isn't it just a repeat of what happened in the last movie? Last time, they started the apocalypse, then stopped it half-way. This movie, they started another apocalypse, then stopped it half-way again. I feel that it's starting to lose it's "Impact" on the audience (if you'll forgive the pun). End of Eva was so mind-blowing because it was a massive event that encompassed the entire globe in a scale never before seen in the series. At this point, they're just crying wolf again.
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Apr 29, 2013 15:42
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cafel posted:Thinking about Third Impact has me wondering how it works out so they can lay so much blame on Shinji. At the end of 2.0 he opens the Gate of Guf, but it's pretty quickly closed by Kaworu in Unit 06 spearing Unit 01. At some point Unit 06, seemingly now not piloted by Kaworu and possibly already the 12th Angel, is able to penetrate Central Dogma. Then Third Impact begins or continues, but is halted by someone putting two spears into Unit 06 and Lilith. While it's all very nebulous, it's hard to see how Shinji's very brief awakening could be the key factor in all of this, more so than anyone elses actions, because we see it ended at the close of 2.0 with some events we know happened having not occured yet. And yet the hate towards Shinji is so severe it can't just be a result of him having not been around to help stop things. Unless Unit 06 and Lilith had nothing to do with Third Impact and all the deaths occured in the short timespan between the Gate of Guf opening and closing, but that seems unlikely. When Kaworu brings Shinji out to see the results of Third Impact he tells Shinji that Lilin calls his awakening 'Near-Third Impact' when earlier in the conversation he states Third Impact occured while Shinji was trapped in Unit 01. It's ambiguous, but it seems to me that Shinji's awakening wasn't Third Impact, it was just a very important catalyst, but I don't see how in a way that leaves Shinji's action with so much of the blame. A friend of mine has a theory that 3.33 is actually a prequel to rebuild 1+2, set in a timeline where Shinji did cause the actual third impact. After this we'd enter the "cycle" of the 2 movies we've already seen, where Kaworu prevents the third impact from happening in the first place by appearing sooner and throwing a spear through unit 01. I thought this was dumb at first until I remembered a few things, specifically Kaworu's reference to "the 3rd" when he first woke up in rebuild 1. If TV series/NGE is the first cycle, 3.33 is set in the 2nd cycle, and rebuild 1 and 2 are the third cycle, then... It still seems really farfetched and out there, and there aren't really enough hints to support it, but it's interesting.
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Apr 29, 2013 15:54
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I would probably die of laughter if that twist were used. I think it would make too much sense though, and thus probably won't be used.
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Apr 29, 2013 15:56
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