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Zahki posted:spoiler'd This was pretty much exactly what I thought. 2.22 was so good, and this one was really pretty and nice looking, but I felt was really lacking substance. Now I just want to see 4.44 and get this over with.
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May 1, 2013 17:56
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After sleeping on it, Abalieno: you're right about the refusal not being present in episode 25 + 26. However the series does introduce the concept of competing versions of Instrumentality, has scenes where the same disembodied voice as 25 + 26 presents itself as characters who would never say the things it says, and also presents the people who most strive for Instrumentality in a poor light; considering all of that, I think EoE presents a more complete and fitting end for the series. I also don't think it's a total reversal of 25 + 26's conclusion, just a modifier from "maybe I can learn to love myself" to "maybe I can learn to love myself, but it's going to be hard." 25 + 26's optimism informs the ending of EoE and make it less bleak than it would be by itself, so I wouldn't say that EoE is meant to erase or totally replace them.
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May 1, 2013 18:28
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I think to consider there's also the fact that Anno got less involved with EoE. In the end the project was carried over by his staff. Following Anno's direction, sure, but it's possible that the EoE was reworked. So the fact is that the TV is Anno 100%, the movies are about Anno in a different state. So it's pointless to search for an unambiguous explanation because EoE was produced in ambiguous times.
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May 1, 2013 19:02
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Finally caught this yesterday and enjoyed the hell out of it. It's simultaneously a very straight forward and a very confusing movie. I think the entire movie just served as setup for the finale, it wasn't really meant to convey any sort of major plot advancement. It really felt like the first half of a bigger story, cut up into digestible parts. I would be very surprised if 4.0 didn't start off immediately after 3.0 ended. I found it amusing that basically the 11th, 12th, and 13th angels were taken care of rather easily and they just happened to get in the way of the real conflict: humans fighting against each other. I also dug the fact that you see absolutely no one at Nerv, when it's obvious there are people there; they just don't matter in the grand scope of things. I thought that the current status of Nerv HQ was a metaphor for the Tower of Babel, interesting read when thought in context of 3.0. Finally I think we'll never get the answers to why and what exactly happened in the 14 year time skip. A flaw that the characters share is the inability to accept things as they are and move on; just as the audience needs to accept this is the way things are and we will only see what will happen and not what did happen.
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May 1, 2013 20:04
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So just to confirm, isn't the 4th movie supposed to be coming out really soon after this one, at least comparatively? If so, the idea of this one being a complete set-up for the final movie isn't terribly far-fetched, and makes it look a lot better in my eyes.
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May 1, 2013 21:38
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klapman posted:So just to confirm, isn't the 4th movie supposed to be coming out really soon after this one, at least comparatively? If so, the idea of this one being a complete set-up for the final movie isn't terribly far-fetched, and makes it look a lot better in my eyes. I believe that originally the 3rd and 4th movies were planned to come out at the same time. I have no idea when they decided against that, though. I'm betting at least 2015 until we see the subbed 4th movie.
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May 1, 2013 21:48
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Originally it was going to come out at the same time as 3.0, but that was abandoned I believe well into 2.0's production when they drastically increased the scope and presumably budget for the tetralogy. E: beaten
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May 1, 2013 21:48
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I'm not sure how interested anyone is in this but I just saw this on /a/ and it's really neat. Someone wrote down all the little symbols you see throughout the movie and figured out that they're actually piano notes when read from top to bottom and right to left, or something.  Then someone wrote them down in the order in which they appeared in the movie and played the notes together.  Which resulted in this. Which if you notice is basically this. This is the music that plays when Shinji starts to lose his mind walking down that corridor hearing all those voices. Though this doesn't really mean anything plot-wise it's still a sick little easter egg. 
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May 2, 2013 01:06
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HoneyBoy posted:I'm not sure how interested anyone is in this but I just saw this on /a/ and it's really neat. Well, that was really neat. e: Stupid Shinji.
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May 2, 2013 01:34
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HoneyBoy posted:I'm not sure how interested anyone is in this but I just saw this on /a/ and it's really neat. These glyphs also appear on the bottom left corner of the new NERV logo.  Curious if anything comes up if those gets translated.
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May 2, 2013 06:33
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I'm pretty sure I'm a bad person
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May 2, 2013 06:42
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Oh my god.
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May 2, 2013 08:00
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hahahahahahahaha jesus loving chirst
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May 2, 2013 08:07
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Just beautiful.
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May 2, 2013 09:21
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 Welp, we know what impacts are now.
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May 2, 2013 10:02
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So that's a Chaos Dunk in action.
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May 2, 2013 10:12
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You missed a shot though by not making Barkley's head white with glowing red eyes.
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May 2, 2013 10:29
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Thank you, my life is now complete.
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May 2, 2013 12:57
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I was so confused by the movie but now...now everything makes so much sense.
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May 2, 2013 14:40
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FYI this is canon level 1. (Higher than Mangas lol)
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May 2, 2013 16:56
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No you're not.
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May 2, 2013 17:46
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No sin is beyond redemption.
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May 2, 2013 19:19
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I feel like I just experienced third impact firsthand.
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May 2, 2013 22:13
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Feranon posted:I feel like I just experienced third impact firsthand. No wonder Shinji was sealed away, the power of the Chaos Dunk is too much to leave in his hands!
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May 2, 2013 22:55
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Anyways, if you want to consider the series minus EoE a complete text and argue about that instead of the whole franchise, that's fine. If that were the case I would probably say that Evangelion doesn't mesh very well with Kabbalistic principles at all, because Shinji's journey consists of shedding attachments and becoming more and more miserable until an introspective, arguably mystical experience shows him the value of himself and others, with the final scene transforming (or perhaps revealing?) people who formerly hurt and confused him as well-wishing friends. But the shedding of attachments vis a vis The Case of X sequence also has him shed pretenses about his own misery. Think back to the "you can be cloudy on a rainy day" new age hippie bullshit thing. Mystical introspective experiences are a cornerstone of ascetic and hermetic forms of worship as well. Where Abalone's logic falls apart is that Shinji's final affirmation is one of discovering self-love, which kind of shits on the Kabbalistic idea of Shinji achieving oneness with God through submission to/subsumption by God. The entire set of endings (Death included) are a confused, roiling mass of idea and emotion that comes from it being a live work. By the time EoE rolled around, Eva had an active, almost oppressive metatext surrounding it thanks to it blowing up all ages and otaku latching onto it like diseased lampreys. There was a lot to say and not enough time or focus or sanity to say it in full, so it ended up being something that you, the viewer, speak for. Everyone has their own opinion of what it means and how things fit or don't fit; it is almost entirely metatext. That's what makes it so fun and that's what makes the Rebuilds so interesting; they can be seen as self-made second order simulacra (or a Stand Alone Complex) for Eva as a whole. drat hard to understand if you don't care about that sort of tenured literature professor poo poo and just want to see mom robots fight, though. Although it is funny that the character who exists solely for the mom robots fighting (Mari) is disliked or seen as pointless so often. As a postmodernist, I also really hate people trotting out DotA as a reason to completely ignore the author; all Death of the Author means is that the Author isn't the sole arbiter of the correct reading of the text. The Author is "dead" inasmuch as the single defining idea of Text is "dead". The Author is but one lens or aspect of the metatext that colors the overall idea of the work. An idea is shaped by the person who expresses it and the medium it is expressed in, just as the meaning of the text is shaped by the person who reads it and the method of critique it is viewed under. Besides, Anno is too bugfuck crazy to ignore, especially when the metatext points to aspects of the work being reflections of the man's own psyche. e: And you are a bad person Bro Enlai. You are terrible and you should feel terrible, but that won't stop me from laughing. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 3, 2013 |
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May 3, 2013 02:38
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MadRhetoric posted:Besides, Anno is too bugfuck crazy to ignore, especially when the metatext points to aspects of the work being reflections of the man's own psyche.
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May 3, 2013 03:23
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MadRhetoric posted:As a postmodernist, I also really hate people trotting out DotA as a reason to completely ignore the author; all Death of the Author means is that the Author isn't the sole arbiter of the correct reading of the text. The Author is "dead" inasmuch as the single defining idea of Text is "dead". The Author is but one lens or aspect of the metatext that colors the overall idea of the work. An idea is shaped by the person who expresses it and the medium it is expressed in, just as the meaning of the text is shaped by the person who reads it and the method of critique it is viewed under. Besides, Anno is too bugfuck crazy to ignore, especially when the metatext points to aspects of the work being reflections of the man's own psyche. I really wish my undergrad program hadn't been so light on theory (and that I had the resources to go back to school) because every time you post something like this I have this nagging little doubt as to whether my disagreement stems from philosophical differences or just ignorance. That said I still think it's funny and rather telling that almost every positive statement about Evangelion with regards to its meaning and interpretation comes from someone other than Anno. The man actively avoids giving answers; in the interview I linked earlier there's even a quote where he pushes the responsibility of finding meaning back on the audience. The guy who's "too bugfuck crazy to ignore" isn't Anno, it's an almost mythical version of Anno built of coworkers' descriptions of him, inferences drawn from Evangelion rather than the other way around, and straight up internet urban legends. There may be something of value there, but calling it "Anno" when it's pretty much a simulacrum itself gives it undue authority. I apologize if I've used Derrida as a blunt instrument, but I'm always going to respect an argument more when it points to something in the show and films than when it doesn't. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:23 on May 3, 2013 |
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May 3, 2013 04:21
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Watched this a second time last night. Along with some reading of this thread, it was much easier to take in. I can safely say now that this is the my favorite segment of the Rebuild films so far. It has got my brain going similar to the way it had been while viewing the later episodes of the original series. Still loved the sound design. Used ATH-M50 headphones this time, KRK Rokit5 monitors last time. Sounded great on both but the monitors worked better because of their sheer power during the massive action moments. The mix is very clear, but pretty crowded, clearly intended for complete surround. If the film gets a screening around here at a decent theater I'll go check it out just for that.
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May 3, 2013 20:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I really wish my undergrad program hadn't been so light on theory (and that I had the resources to go back to school) because every time you post something like this I have this nagging little doubt as to whether my disagreement stems from philosophical differences or just ignorance. You have a good mind for this stuff and make cogent points; I just see things differently. I look at things through different lenses (or different versions of the same 'postmodern' lense) so of course we're going to use the tools differently. To be perfectly honest, I learned 90% of my postmodernist/deconstructionist poo poo from Internet self study, so don't look to me as some expert on the field. V  VAnd I'd say that in actively avoiding answers and letting the work and his colleagues speak for him, Anno has made a simulacrum of himself. He's like an anime Andy Warhol, down to the mainstreaming of "meaningless" images.
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May 3, 2013 22:42
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MadRhetoric posted:Where Abalone's logic falls apart is that Shinji's final affirmation is one of discovering self-love, which kind of shits on the Kabbalistic idea of Shinji achieving oneness with God through submission to/subsumption by God. But that's not what I said. Kabbalah isn't a theme of Evangelion, it's just a structure that enables a certain introspection. Evangelion's goal isn't "spirituality" and so in Evangelion's Instrumentality the relationship with god isn't a theme at all. Once again, I've said that Eva's central theme is the holy trinity: Anno, Shinji, the audience. All themes converge on those three. Where's the god? Nowhere. The god is merely the introspective lens of analysis. Evangelion is not (and the staff affirmed as much) a religious idea. The show is not about god. Kabbalah is just a pattern or a mean. In true Kabbalah the goal is spirituality. In Evangelion, it's self discovery or whatever.
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May 3, 2013 23:12
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This thread needs less black bars and more gifs.    
Sonictic fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 4, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 00:35
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Gifs are cool, yeah.   I wonder if anyone in this show has put in more work than Asuka across the whole series? HoneyBoy fucked around with this message at 00:47 on May 4, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 00:41
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If Third Impact in EoE was the product of a passive Shinji, and Third Impact in Rebuild 2.22 the product of an aggressive Shinji, what do we get when Shinji finally asserts himself? Thirty minutes into the fourth movie, during some climactic battle sequence, Shinji just climbs down out of his Eva and hails a cab yelling "gently caress this noise" with all the other characters standing around looking perplexed and embarrassed. Unit-01 self-destructs, but instead of the traditional crucifix explosion, we get a giant luminous middle finger flipping off the entire loving audience. The remaining sixty or so minutes is a static shot of Anno's bank balance, while the soundtrack loops a grade schooler's inept recorder rendition of Ode to Joy.
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May 4, 2013 02:01
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HoneyBoy posted:I wonder if anyone in this show has put in more work than Asuka across the whole series?
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May 4, 2013 02:05
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The lesson of the aborted third impact in 2.22 is that if you're going to become a god, you don't bitch out halfway through.
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May 4, 2013 02:17
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Terrible people make wonderful things. 
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May 4, 2013 02:18
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The Riddle of Feel posted:The lesson of the aborted third impact in 2.22 is that if you're going to become a god, you don't bitch out halfway through. Wait, what? Wasn't Third Impact in 2.22 interrupted externally? (At least going by the episode preview.) I don't think we can really judge the "lesson" of 2.22 at all until we know if Shinji's wish was actually realized. There's a big difference between "you killed thousands of people for nothing" and saving someone's life at a horrible cost. Could you look them in the eye and tell them you wish you hadn't? Should you? EDIT: And I just responded earnestly to sarcasm, didn't I? Oh well, the question stands. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:28 on May 4, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 02:24
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The Riddle of Feel posted:The lesson of the aborted third impact in 2.22 is that if you're going to become a god, you don't bitch out halfway through. But he didn't bitch out? 
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May 4, 2013 02:33
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The Riddle of Feel posted:The lesson of the aborted third impact in 2.22 is that if you're going to become a god, you don't bitch out halfway through. Kaworu speared Unit-01 to stop the Third Impact, Shinji didn't bitch out of it at all.
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May 4, 2013 02:53
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May 4, 2013 06:09
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