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Naoko Akagi is the second most popular choice, but there's not that much evidence for that theory. During episode 14 Shinji basically says Rei is trying to force her way into his mind when he's doing the test, so there's a much stronger case for that instead.quote:Shinji: Wow, what's this? Basically the piece of Rei I that antagonised Naoko is inside Unit 0. It's targeting Ritsuko when it goes berserk, because it's mistaking her for Naoko.
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May 13, 2013 21:44
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I'm honestly of the belief that Naoko's is the soul that inhabits Unit 00. A death where we're never shown exactly what happened (did she commit suicide, or did Gendo kill her?), an intimate relation of sorts with Rei, and Unit-00 seeming to target Gendo during its' first on-screen berserking. And in regards to the test from Ep. 14, well... Who else but Shinji would serve as the permanent reminder of how Yui had one-upped Naoko in regards to romancing Gendo? As for targeting Ritsuko... I honestly dunno. 
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May 13, 2013 23:21
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ACanofPepsi posted:I always thought it'd be neat to show what happens to Eva pilots and their sync-ratio as they age. Like you NEED to pilot an Eva young the first time to make the connection, then the "age limit" is less strict, so you can be 20+ and piloting the Eva, as long as you first synced with it when you were 13-14. The link will eventually grow weaker and weaker until by late 20's/early 30's there is zero sync ratio, and you just can't activate your old Eva anymore. The Angelic Days manga does exactly this. It shows the pilots aging, but only mentions that their aging leads to their sync ratios going down, attributing it to puberty or something about hormones. But really it just uses age as a way to show how Shinji and Asuka eventually deal with their feelings for each other. It also gives some story background on how Gendo and Yui met. E: Regalingualius posted:I'm honestly of the belief that Naoko's is the soul that inhabits Unit 00. A death where we're never shown exactly what happened (did she commit suicide, or did Gendo kill her?), an intimate relation of sorts with Rei, and Unit-00 seeming to target Gendo during its' first on-screen berserking. And in regards to the test from Ep. 14, well... Who else but Shinji would serve as the permanent reminder of how Yui had one-upped Naoko in regards to romancing Gendo? As for targeting Ritsuko... I honestly dunno. Naoko committed suicide after she accidentally strangled Rei I several years before the events of the anime (after Yui's accident of course). There's a parallel of this in the series I think (or maybe just the manga) where Ritsuko almost strangles Rei II Synthwave Crusader fucked around with this message at 00:20 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 00:16
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Boy that's gotta suck to be used twice by the organization that replaced you with a doll. One via the brain matter, the other by the soul.
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May 14, 2013 00:25
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I love giving single sentence explanations for Eva things to friends. They aren't into anime at all, but they see the Eva models I've built and say "That's a sweet robot." I reply with "Actually they only look like robots, underneath they're actually flesh and blood clones of a dead god some scientists found in Antarctica." Me:  Friends:  It's all so ridiculous when broken down that way but it makes me like it even more. Everybody come up with your own! bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 01:55 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 01:53
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I made my girlfriend watch it once. All she remembers about it is that some kid jerked off on a comatose chick.
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May 14, 2013 02:05
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ACanofPepsi posted:I love giving single sentence explanations for Eva things to friends. They aren't into anime at all, but they see the Eva models I've built and say "That's a sweet robot." I reply with "Actually they only look like robots, underneath they're actually flesh and blood clones of a dead god some scientists found in Antarctica." That still does not compare to Valvrave broken down to 3 words: nanomachine space vampire. I'll bite: SEELE is an old guy's club for people obsessed with becoming orange tang.
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May 14, 2013 02:06
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Scyantific posted:Naoko committed suicide after she accidentally strangled Rei I several years before the events of the anime (after Yui's accident of course). There's a parallel of this in the series I think (or maybe just the manga) where Ritsuko almost strangles Rei II Sorry, didn't get a chance to clarify because I was posting on my phone and in a rush at the time. What I meant was that I wouldn't have put it past Gendo in the slightest to have made it look like she'd simply committed suicide, and had actually somehow or other figured out a way of transferring her soul into Unit-00 while still leaving a body behind for him to throw over the rail. Given that he'd privately admitted that he saw her and her romance with him as nothing more than a way to keep her around as one of his tools, it's not all that hard to believe he'd see sacrificing her to serve as the soul for Unit-00 as acceptable. Granted, I fully admit a lot of this mostly comes about simply because they didn't show on-screen what'd been heavily implied to have happened. 
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May 14, 2013 02:13
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Regalingualius posted:Sorry, didn't get a chance to clarify because I was posting on my phone and in a rush at the time. What I meant was that I wouldn't have put it past Gendo in the slightest to have made it look like she'd simply committed suicide, and had actually somehow or other figured out a way of transferring her soul into Unit-00 while still leaving a body behind for him to throw over the rail. Given that he'd privately admitted that he saw her and her romance with him as nothing more than a way to keep her around as one of his tools, it's not all that hard to believe he'd see sacrificing her to serve as the soul for Unit-00 as acceptable. Well, it's probably certain that Rei I had something to do with Naoko's heath. Naoko strangled Rei I because she said that Gendo called her an "old hag" behind her back. Maybe he did it within earshot of Rei I because he probably knew Naoko would snap? Either way, there's quite a bit of talk that when she realized what she had done to Rei I, Naoko was horrified enough that she may have killed herself for that reason.
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May 14, 2013 05:51
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ACanofPepsi posted:I love giving single sentence explanations for Eva things to friends. They aren't into anime at all, but they see the Eva models I've built and say "That's a sweet robot." I reply with "Actually they only look like robots, underneath they're actually flesh and blood clones of a dead god some scientists found in Antarctica." Misato is a fan-servicey Captain Ahab who has a father complex and both knows way too much and is completely in the dark. EDIT: Aoba - He likes guitars! 
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May 14, 2013 07:05
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Mezzanine posted:Aoba - He likes guitars! You forgot to mention his "dream" of being swarmed by a mob of creepy naked clones.
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May 14, 2013 07:18
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Zahki posted:Basically the piece of Rei I that antagonised Naoko is inside Unit 0. It's targeting Ritsuko when it goes berserk, because it's mistaking her for Naoko. Yeah, that makes way more sense. Also would explain why Shinji is partly capable of syncing with Unit-00.
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May 14, 2013 07:37
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Aoba has the best hair and is the dreamiest NERV memeber  ViggyNash posted:True, I forgot that they were born from different... "gods" I guess? You can't deny the visual similarities though. For being born from polar opposite beings, they have very similar features. I wonder what Kaworu knows that we don't about his and Rei's creation that prompted him to suggest that they were the same. An interesting question then is, if Rei is made partially from Yui, who is Kaworu made from? Assepoester fucked around with this message at 10:28 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 07:58
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Cardboard Box A posted:An interesting question then is, if Rei is made partially from Yui, who is Kaworu made from? Kunihiko Ikuhara.
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May 14, 2013 08:00
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Cardboard Box A posted:An interesting question then is, if Rei is made partially from Yui, who is Kaworu made from? Some have suggested Misato's father. It's not as batshit as you think.
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May 14, 2013 15:36
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The pages listed here are a good read if you're interested in that sort of stuff. It's mostly fun speculation but theres a lot of stuff in there that I would have never really noticed at all if it wasn't pointed out.
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May 14, 2013 15:50
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Szmitten posted:Some have suggested Misato's father. It's not as batshit as you think. Zahki posted:The pages listed here are a good read if you're interested in that sort of stuff. It's mostly fun speculation but theres a lot of stuff in there that I would have never really noticed at all if it wasn't pointed out. This article/section is too detailed / contains too much filler of little or no value and needs to be distilled to the essentials. Haha. But their quotes are very useful: KAWORU: "You're the First Child, aren't you? Rei Ayanami... You're the same as me. So, both of us ended up in the same form as the Lilin while we inhabit this planet." REI: "Who are you?" That really is the most hilarious response in retrospect since it's basically KAWORU: HUGE REVELATION REI:  mr. stefan posted:I may piss someone off for saying this but I kind of get the feeling that a lot of people have become so invested in writing off Eva as a slap-dash cash-grab with meaningless symbolism and a fandom full of "pretentious" suckers that, when presented with evidence that they may be wrong and NGE actually has some modicum of artistic merit, they flip the gently caress out and go into sunk-cost defense mode rather than admit they were wrong about something on the internet. These people don't want to look deeper than the surface of the work, because doing so may present them with evidence that they weren't actually as clever and ahead of the curve as they thought. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10329-Evangeliowned Someone posted the Shick ad in the comments because I think we can all agree that it is the best tie-in ever Assepoester fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 20:50
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You should see their stub banner. "If I heat up my breasts, d'you think they'll get bigger or smaller?" I've never thought about Kaworu's clonefather before, but Dr Katsuragi's a nice interpretation.Tuxedo Catfish posted:I don't think Kaworu has ever been outright malevolent. More likely his motivations are just freaky and inhuman in ways that don't directly contradict the things he says, like being totally obedient to SEELE and offering Shinji unconditional love at the same time. He's incompatible, not evil. That would make him much more alien than Rei ever manages. She's pretty open about her motivations to Shinji - "I want to die", "I'll do anything Gendo tells me" - and her character development is more or less human.
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May 14, 2013 20:59
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House Louse posted:You should see their stub banner. "If I heat up my breasts, d'you think they'll get bigger or smaller?" I've never thought about Kaworu's clonefather before, but Dr Katsuragi's a nice interpretation. I said it before in more of a joke form, but I really think Kowaru, being of Adam, is just really weird and alien to us. We see him obeying Seele but also offering Shinji love as conflicting ideas, but maybe he sees it in some way we can't. Or he knows Seele and NERV's outcome will be the exact same thing even if they think the results of their instrumentalities will have enough differences to allow them to come out on top. We see him as contradictory, but maybe he just sees both sides of the coin before it's flipped, while Seele and NERV are trying to guess heads or tails while the coin is in the air.
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May 14, 2013 21:17
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Cardboard Box A posted:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/10329-Evangeliowned What makes this great is that the body pillows are pretty much the only thing there that isn't similarly overbranded whenever, say, Marvel is pushing a new movie, but you don't see him claiming that having Iron Man badged doctor pepper in every store in the continental US makes The Avengers a hollow and empty work as a direct result. Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 03:01
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I just (re)watched the Rebuilds and I got to say that I really like how the movie titles describe the overall feeling of the movie they reference. 1 - You are (not) alone. Shinji feels alone and in his own world during most of the movie, then at the end he acknowledges / gets acknowledgement from Misato and Rei. You are not alone ! 2 - You can (not) advance. During the movie there is actual character development. The most obvious examples being Asuka who has a heartfelt discussion with Misato, and Rei who wants to cook dinner to bring everyone together. Then everything is cut short by Angels, reverting all the advancement that was done. It's even a double whammy when at the end Kaworu shuts down Third Impact. You can not advance indeed. 3 - You can (not) redo. This movie is basically Kaworu convincing Shinji that he can repair / redo the mistakes he made, only for it to backfire in the most epic way. No redo here. Something else I thought about, and it's more musings than anything else : I think the rebuilds might have been created with some kind of measure. Three quarters of the movie could be for the part without the (not), and one quarter could be for the (not) part. I'm not music literate, but I think that based on other posts concerning the titles and references to music, that there is a musical reference in there as well. The way the movies are structured kind of fit this, as in the way that the last part/act of each movie is used for the (not) part. I think, based on this, that the "Final (Repeat)" movie will have half of it dedicated to averting Instrumentality, and half of it to Instrumentality proper. It would be just like the EoE movie, and it would also fit the title scheme and measure of the previous Rebuild movies. Or maybe it's just me  too hard...ACanofPepsi posted:I said it before in more of a joke form, but I really think Kowaru, being of Adam, is just really weird and alien to us. We see him obeying Seele but also offering Shinji love as conflicting ideas, but maybe he sees it in some way we can't. Or he knows Seele and NERV's outcome will be the exact same thing even if they think the results of their instrumentalities will have enough differences to allow them to come out on top. To add to this, I always saw Kaworu as some sort of Saint/Buddha. This is why he's always depicted with a smile : it's the Buddha smile. It's the smile of someone who has reached enlightement, is offering enlightement, is above the fray, can't loose, and is always serene whatever happens. It's also mocking in a way. It's really striking in the original anime. It took none other than Gendo to remove his smile for 10 minutes in Rebuild 3, and even in the end he was still smiling because he knew he would see Shinji again. And even if he knew he wouldn't see Shinji again, he would have smiled anyway, because he was above everything. The way I see it, Gendo took the smile off Buddha for 10 minutes, which is a confirmation of how terrible Gendo is.
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May 15, 2013 05:36
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I always saw the titles of the Rebuild titles without the bracketed bit as how Shinji sees the world, that he is alone, that he can redo everything. Then with the modifier as how the world is. He cannot advance, cannot redo anything.
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May 15, 2013 05:50
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bof_man posted:The way I see it, Gendo took the smile off Buddha for 10 minutes, which is a confirmation of how terrible Gendo is. I will say, rewatching the Rebuild movies - Gendo really is an absolute black hole of morality, isn't he? It can be hard to really grasp just what a monster he is because I, at least, spend so much time wondering what his plan is and what it's for that it almost obscures the fact that, whatever his plan is and whatever its meant to do, it is either built around or is merely comfortable with psychologically torturting half the people Gendo interacts with and ensuring the end of humanity as we know it. I almost have to wonder where Gendo came from - you can see flashes of him in Shinji when he's at his most desperate or disillusioned, but (and here I stress I have only a general knowledge of the original series) Shinji very seldom seemed willing to hurt anybody the way Gendo is - those few times he actively lashes out at someone as far as I know come at the end of the series when Gendo has all but broken him. Like I said, where the gently caress does an rear end in a top hat like Gendo come from? It fascinates me to think about, especially considering he doesn't have the emotional crucible of Nerv torturing him as an excuse.
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May 15, 2013 07:05
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Rebuild Gendo is kind of an iteration on top of series Gendo. In the series yeah, he's a monster, but the impression is of a man who was absolutely destroyed by the death of his wife and was terrified of living (let alone being a father) without her. Yui and Rei are both ready to step to his defense, although in Yui's case it takes place in a flashback unless you count Eva-01 hallucinations asking Shinji to "try to understand." This all comes to a head in EoE, where Gendo is honestly shocked that Rei (who he thinks of as an extension of Yui) would defy him. He has this look of totally uncomprehending betrayal as she merges with Lilith and then that's the last you see of him until (what looks like) Yui appears to welcome him into Instrumentality. Then you get Rebuild which changes the whole cast as a result of what happened to them in the series + EoE. Kaworu may be the only one who's aware of it, or maybe not, but they've all evolved in ways that reflect what they experienced. Shinji grasps for agency but still associates it with Evangelions instead of recognizing them as an obstacle. Asuka was a child who wanted more than anything to be treated like an adult, now she's a quasi-adult who's always going to be treated like a child. Rei valued her connection to others more than her own life, and in Rebuild someone close to her ends the world to save her life. It's all very monkey's paw, but shot through with an almost contradictory hope that if they shed their misconceptions they'll get what they really wanted. It applies to Gendo too, but he really hasn't learned anything. In EoE SEELE beat him to the punch at initiating their version of Instrumentality, and Yui ignored his wishes to grant Shinji's instead. So in Rebuild he murders SEELE, usurps Keel Lorenz's crown (literally -- check out the visor), and spitefully makes Shinji into the instrument of his will instead of Unit-01. He still seems to want Yui back, but the context has gotten profoundly creepy -- monologuing to a giant rotten severed head as if it were his wife, as he casually orchestrates the death of thousands. In the series/EoE, Gendo admitted to being afraid of Shinji; in Rebuild, he resents him -- and Rei, and possibly even Yui herself. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 08:33 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 08:30
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Gendo is, perhaps, my favourite character in NGE and, so, here is my reading on him. In short, he's a dark mirror of Shinji. Same feelings, similar life but where Shinji hurts himself, Gendo hurts others. Gendo is not a sociopath, he knows what he is doing is wrong, he knows what he is doing hurts people, but it's all in the service of restoring Yui and, perhaps, in doing so, restoring what Gendo sees as his humanity. In Gendo's mind, I think he thought he could just bring Yui back then make amends with Shinji. I don't think Gendo understood the true extent of the damage he was doing ('It doesn't matter, Shinji will be happy to have his mother back and we'll be a family again!'). He's not sociopathic - just extremely selfish and coldly logical - and had enough self-awareness to be scared that he would be a bad father to Shinji without Yui. Yui must have known that vanishing into Unit 01 would destroy Gendo and revert him to his misanthropic personality as he had been before they met. It's almost tragic that the puppetmaster was most manipulated by the one person he would never suspect would do him harm. It's very NGE, that.
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May 15, 2013 11:06
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The thing with Gendo and Yui is that it's a family crisis brought about by lack of communication. Both of them understand that the apocalypse is coming; Yui was a part of SEELE and presumably knows all about the prophecies, while Gendo had at least enough information to have predicted Second Impact and split the day before it happened. Yui was already at home raising their child. This is significant because it characterizes both of their responses -- Yui knew the end of the world was coming all along (remember her conversation with Fuyutsuki) while Gendo was in the thick of it until the last moment, at which point he saved his own skin. Yui is selfless and forward-thinking, but fatalistic. She probably doesn't believe the world can actually be saved, leading to her goals of a) leaving eternal proof that humanity existed and b) giving Shinji a chance at happiness even if it's in a world where humanity cannot possibly survive. In the end she achieves her goals to the letter, but not a single thing more -- Shinji and Asuka could be the last people on Earth after EoE for all we know. Gendo is selfish -- he abandons Shinji because he's afraid that Shinji couldn't possibly love him, not the other way around -- but at the same time he's almost pathologically optimistic. I mean, consider his plan in the original series: fight off a horde of immortal aliens, build a God from bits of their corpses and bend it to his will, deceive and out-maneuver the literal Illuminati, and hijack the apocalypse to resurrect his dead wife. It's obvious that neither of them are in the right, but the way I see it neither of them are wholly wrong either. If the two of them actually sat down and hashed things out they probably could have saved the world together. This is manifested in Rebuild Shinji who has inherited the flaws and the virtues of both his parents -- lots of people have pointed out how his overriding desire to save Rei in 2.22 was similar to Gendo's attitude towards Yui, but it's actually much closer to Yui's decision to save only him. Gendo's plans have never involved self-sacrifice, and rarely require the willing participation of whoever he's trying to control ("Ayanami! Take my hand!") By comparison Third Impact in 2.22 is eerily similar to, well, Third Impact; one participant is at their absolute zero point wishing for death, and the other is willing to gamble everything for their sake. They're "the beast who shouted 'love' at the heart of the world." It's not until 3.33 that Shinji starts acting more like his father; the whole thing with the spears could have been avoided if he and Kaworu (a loving, forward-thinking fatalist, just like Shinji's mother) had talked out the contingencies ahead of time, but Shinji is obsessed with the past and at the same time irrationally optimistic about his chances, ignoring the obvious danger signals and his own incomplete understanding because he's sure there must be some way it'll all work out. Like Gendo thought he could outwit SEELE, Shinji thinks he can use his father's tools against him and get away with it, and people close to him suffer for it. Like Yui forgives Gendo, Kaworu forgives him; but forgiveness is no substitute for trust. I bet if I went back and rewatched it 1.11 would have heavier parallels than ever between Shinji and Misato, but I've got to go to work in a minute and don't remember it clearly enough to want to say anything off the top of my head. But anyways, to recap: 2.22 is Shinji acting out his mother's fatalism and love, and failing because giving up on the world is a self-fulfilling prophecy. 3.33 is him acting out his father's selfishness and optimism, and failing because he refused to trust others. Imagine what would happen if he acted with his mother's love and his father's optimism. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 13:56 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 13:54
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This poo poo is awesome. I can't wait until I get the whole thing on a Blu Ray. Preferably with a behind the scenes as long as the 4 movies. gently caress, a reality show. They've obviously put a ton of effort into it but I have this picture in my head of them sitting at a table going "Yeah, we got nothing. Let's wing it." and end up producing something that's debated endlessly.
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May 15, 2013 16:10
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Gatts posted:This poo poo is awesome. I can't wait until I get the whole thing on a Blu Ray. Preferably with a behind the scenes as long as the 4 movies. gently caress, a reality show. They've obviously put a ton of effort into it but I have this picture in my head of them sitting at a table going "Yeah, we got nothing. Let's wing it." and end up producing something that's debated endlessly. If that ends up being true the Mass Effect team should start taking notes, this is how to create LOTS OF SPECULATION. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 17:24
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Well, as far as the series + EoE goes, the relevant people are on record describing it as "a live performance" where they made up things as they went along. There's also all kinds of stuff from the planning stages that bears no resemblance to the finished product, like the Evangelions being artifacts of a previous earthbound civilization that had their own Impact-like disaster and went extinct. (Harking back to its Nausicaa and Ideon influences.) Rebuild feels more deliberate to me, but I have nothing concrete to base it on. There's the whole Jo-Ha-Kyu thing I guess, but that's a pretty loose inference.
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May 15, 2013 17:28
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I would think it would feel more deliberate regardless of what the creators tried due to the way it's playing off of the original series. Even in the new context provided by 3.33, events still play out in a way that's obviously meant to evoke paralells or deliberate divergences with events from the original series.
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May 15, 2013 18:10
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I think that the fact that the 3rd and 4th movies were originally planned to have come out at the same time suggests that there's been some changes in the plans. Whether that implies that they're "winging it" is debatable, I guess.
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May 15, 2013 19:37
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mr. stefan posted:What makes this great is that the body pillows are pretty much the only thing there that isn't similarly overbranded whenever, say, Marvel is pushing a new movie, but you don't see him claiming that having Iron Man badged doctor pepper in every store in the continental US makes The Avengers a hollow and empty work as a direct result. I never really thought about that but... wow, I don't know why I never thought about that.
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May 15, 2013 20:08
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The series was partly "improvised" - they didn't plan for the money running out or Aum Shinrikyo, for instance () - but its basic Angel-of-the-week struture gives you a lot of freedom to improvise and have things still remaining more or less coherent. And I think Anno plays with that structure quite cleverly. On the other hand, it's easier to delay a film until it's just right.
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May 15, 2013 21:41
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Is it confirmed that Rebuild is in the same continuity somehow as the original series and EoE rather than being a retelling or reboot?
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May 16, 2013 17:41
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It's a theory as far as I know. The reason for it is the lake water. In the original series, all bodies of water shown except for the remains of Antarctica were the normal clear blue. But in Rebuild, all water has become blood red, hence the purification plant. This can be connected to the end of EoE where all of the water on the planet was now red because Shinji cancelled the instrumentality apocalypse. Another connection is the giant Rei head that Gendo has in Rebuild (if I'm remembering correctly) that must have been the head of the giant Rei in EoE from the ending.
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May 16, 2013 17:58
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ViggyNash posted:It's a theory as far as I know. The reason for it is the lake water.
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May 16, 2013 18:10
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ViggyNash posted:Another connection is the giant Rei head that Gendo has in Rebuild (if I'm remembering correctly) that must have been the head of the giant Rei in EoE from the ending. You're getting your scales completely wrong.  To make a very conservative estimate, the giant Rei head is probably bigger than Japan itself.
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May 16, 2013 19:02
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swmmrmanshen posted:Is it confirmed that Rebuild is in the same continuity somehow as the original series and EoE rather than being a retelling or reboot? The short version is that, up to 3.33 at least, it makes absolutely no difference. Rebuild is loaded with signifiers and references to the series and EoE in particular, but it makes just as much sense to read them literally or metaphorically. It's like Evil Dead 2, it's under no obligation to commit to being one or the other. Popehoist posted:You're getting your scales completely wrong. As if Evangelion were internally consistent with sizes.
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May 16, 2013 19:06
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On a somewhat related note - I was skimming through EoE for the first time yesterday and something confusded me - when Shinji sorties in unit 1 immediately before seeing unit 2's corpse and freaking out, the Eva has already formed these huge wings of light and summoned a thunderstorm and poo poo. Is there any explanation for why it started doing that? I know it had Zeruel's core in it, but it didn't have the lightshow when it fought Armisael so that can't be it - and I really doubt that a depressed and broken Shinji had a good enough synch rate to make the Eva more powerful than usual.
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May 16, 2013 19:08
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Popehoist posted:You're getting your scales completely wrong. Scales wrong? In Evangelion? I don't know man, that sounds pretty unlikely. 
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May 16, 2013 19:57
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