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I find this oddly satisfying after years of rolling my eyes at people insisting the manga was better.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:00
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Nate RFB posted:I find this oddly satisfying after years of rolling my eyes at people insisting the manga was better. But Shinji's more assertive! You know, like he dosen't have crippling depression -most people that like the manga/rebuild 1+2
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Jun 4, 2013 00:04
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Nate RFB posted:I find this oddly satisfying after years of rolling my eyes at people insisting the manga was better. Of course, that's about the time Gendou showed up with a personal AT field and a pistol headshotting the JSSDF and thus after that it became arguable as to what it had left to improve upon, however.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:06
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Tae posted:But Shinji's more assertive! You know, like he dosen't have crippling depression Kids with depression and social anxiety are so boooring.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:06
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Monomythian posted:I found this in this thread from last year and thought it summed up 3.33 pretty well. Hahaha, this is a loving masterpiece. I won't be able to watch 3.33 again without thinking of this.
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Jun 4, 2013 00:27
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Cardboard Box A posted:A lot of the manga was better, depending on what you wanted out of it/what you wanted to see done differently. There was more focus on the viewpoints of characters other than Shinji, including their thoughts and internal monologues, and it made them a lot more rounded and sympathetic. Even Gendou has a conversation with Shinji at the end where he sort of owned up to being a bad father. I'm kind of ambivalent on the manga's portrayal of Gendo. Instead of the broken man who in the end just wanted his wife back and isolated himself from his son out of a genuine believe that said son was better off without him, the manga twists it by actually having him turning out to be the mad man with the god complex that SEELE believed always him to be, and the wilfully abusive monster that Shinji always feared he was. I really can't decide if it is kind of an interesting take or just completely flattens his character. Utritum fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 00:31
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The thing that disappointed me about the manga most is that the last two or three books are pretty much a shot-for-shot remake of EoE, but without any of the interesting mind-gently caress stuff. (Actually, that might be some kind of weird inverse spoiler? Are we spoiling the manga yet?) I know it shouldn't annoy me that much, since the whole manga is that way, but it does.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:51
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There was a lot of stuff in the early and middle parts that I think the manga handled in a more satisfying manner in a story sense, but for a lot of the later stuff (basically anything after Zeruel) it seemed like Sadamoto was just phoning it in, as reflected by the glacial pace. The end really feels like a fizzle.
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Jun 4, 2013 02:03
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On the manga: If you change your worldview and get out of a lovely situation, it can be as if it never existed in the first place. Sadamoto just took that to its most (il)logical conclusion. And Abenobashi end is about as weird and cop-outish as Congratulations or Kimochi warui depending on how you look at it. You either throw away the pathos or you throw away the character development or you throw away both. I guess the moral of the story is Evangelion endings will always be disappointing. Or anything that takes eighteen goddamned years to end is going to end with a whimper. I wouldn't get your hopes up for 4.0.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:35
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Alternatively it's because the Universe of Evangelion doesn't actually exist and therefore we can ascribe absolutely any events or meaning to it. We are in Instrumentality Right Now  !
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Jun 4, 2013 03:56
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Turns out there is Evangelion stuff I have not seen yet. Namely the 3.33 movie, I just realized I havent watched yet, but I am going to fix that tonight. I have seen this movie though; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJVtY4s344o and I wish I hadn't. 
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Jun 4, 2013 03:59
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I said come in! posted:I have seen this movie though; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJVtY4s344o and I wish I hadn't.  And just remember, that was the ending that we got in 1997. 10+ years of chewing on that before Rebuild came along. E: If it wasn't clear I like End of Eva a whole lot. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 04:08
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Nate RFB posted:The proper emoticon is I feel like it ruined Shinji for me, and comes real close to ruining Rei for me. But I have a question anyways; so basically the 3rd impact happens and wipes out the rest of the world? Why does Shinji and Asuka survive though?
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Jun 4, 2013 04:14
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I said come in! posted:I feel like it ruined Shinji for me, and comes real close to ruining Rei for me. But I have a question anyways; so basically the 3rd impact happens and wipes out the rest of the world? Why does Shinji and Asuka survive though? Because they are the only ones (that we see) willing to get away from instrumentality and brave through the terribleness that is human interaction.
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Jun 4, 2013 04:25
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I said come in! posted:I feel like it ruined Shinji for me, and comes real close to ruining Rei for me. But I have a question anyways; so basically the 3rd impact happens and wipes out the rest of the world? Why does Shinji and Asuka survive though? At the very end Yui says something like "anyone can regain their own lost form if they have the will." Shinji and Asuka are the first (only?) to have the will. At the very beginning of EoE there's a scene of Shinji popping up out of a lake, which is high enough that phone poles are covered up to the transformers. I always assumed it was Shinji when he first reformed and emerged from the Sea of LCL, but Evageeks seems to think it happened before the events of 25'. Where the hell would he have to be for that to be the case?
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Jun 4, 2013 04:55
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Tae posted:Because they are the only ones (that we see) willing to get away from instrumentality and brave through the terribleness that is human interaction. The best part about that is that you can see that Shinji made a little memorial thing for Misato. It's a brief shot of her necklace cross thingy on a post. So really who knows how much time passed between Shinji ending 3rd impact and Asuka showing up. I kind of love the end of EoE. Because it's just like... well alright then.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:35
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I said come in! posted:Turns out there is Evangelion stuff I have not seen yet. Namely the 3.33 movie, I just realized I havent watched yet, but I am going to fix that tonight. Haha, boy are you in for a treat.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:51
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Nate RFB posted:The proper emoticon is I had the same feeling as I said come in! On my first viewing but the absurdity had grown on me on successive viewings. Hoping Rebuild takes a similar route just so it can be absurdity with 15 years of animation improvement and a lot cash. Also would like to see that door made out of worm screws make a return 
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Jun 4, 2013 08:34
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Speaking of cash, wouldn't the Evangelion series have done worse if there wasn't a constant buzz and gnashing of teeth and semi-canon detail-filling from other writers due to the 25/26 and the EoE endings? People still talk about it now, almost two decades after it's come out. An entire generation has grown up in its shadow.
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Jun 4, 2013 08:52
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A Pinball Wizard posted:At the very beginning of EoE there's a scene of Shinji popping up out of a lake, which is high enough that phone poles are covered up to the transformers. I always assumed it was Shinji when he first reformed and emerged from the Sea of LCL, but Evageeks seems to think it happened before the events of 25'. Where the hell would he have to be for that to be the case? Tokyo 3 gets blown up and turned into a crater lake in episode 23 or 22 I think.
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Jun 4, 2013 09:02
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I said come in! posted:I feel like it ruined Shinji for me, and comes real close to ruining Rei for me. But I have a question anyways; so basically the 3rd impact happens and wipes out the rest of the world? Why does Shinji and Asuka survive though? Shinji is definitely at his least sympathetic in EoE by a long shot. Remember, though, this happens after episode 24, so give him some sympathy. Nobody was killed, they were just turned (transubstantiated?) into LCL - a different form, but they were still alive. Shinji and Asuka were able to come to terms with theirselves and decide to live as individual people, rather than being part of Instrumentality, and if they can manage to affirm themselves, most people in the world probably can. Yui says this near the end. I think it's a glorious and optimistic conclusion, even if it's hard. Phobophilia posted:Speaking of cash, wouldn't the Evangelion series have done worse if there wasn't a constant buzz and gnashing of teeth and semi-canon detail-filling from other writers due to the 25/26 and the EoE endings? I don't think so, most of the spinoffs have been high school AUs and stuff rather than precise details of AT fields and more  .
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Jun 4, 2013 09:22
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MadRhetoric posted:I guess the moral of the story is Evangelion endings will always be disappointing. Or anything that takes eighteen goddamned years to end is going to end with a whimper. I wouldn't get your hopes up for 4.0. I dunno, in my opinion End of Evangelion is fantastic and I really do hope that 4.0 goes right off the deep end even further than EOE did, because I love how utterly insane and dark it was. Likewise, I was really disappointed with the direction they took with the first two Rebuild movies, but goofy timeskip aside, I think that they're back on track with 3.33 and on course to really surprise everybody.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:56
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Some people think the end of EoE is the bad ending vs episodes 25/26, but I think EoE is the good ending. Basically, life is hard but in order to have love and goodness you also have to have hate and evil to compare it with, otherwise everything is just a meaningless blank existence. No love, no excitement, no hope, no dreams, no compassion, fear, adventure, secrets or individuality or anything, all minds merging into one being for all of eternity. Shinji said gently caress no. Those that want out, can get out.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:04
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The ending of EoE is eternally debatable. There's not really any solid answer to it. The best we have is that Anno thought it wasn't a hopeful ending (as he said he intends to give Rebuild an ending with hope in comparison to it), but it's obscure enough you can basically read whatever you want into it unless you're specifically discussing it in relation to other material.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:30
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ImpAtom posted:The ending of EoE is eternally debatable. There's not really any solid answer to it. The best we have is that Anno thought it wasn't a hopeful ending (as he said he intends to give Rebuild an ending with hope in comparison to it), but it's obscure enough you can basically read whatever you want into it unless you're specifically discussing it in relation to other material. If you're talking about the interview I think you're talking about, that was Kazuya Tsurumaki, not Anno. EDIT: I think, anyways. I can't find it now to confirm. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 13:58
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EoE is less "I've accepted my failings and will use them as a stepping stone in a painful path of self-improvement" and more "I am a complete failure and shall be ostracised from the rest of humanity".
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Jun 4, 2013 14:01
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For me the message I got out of EoE was more like "no one ever really changes, especially not for the better". I really liked it because while it's not strictly true, it's more true than most people want to believe or most stories will admit.
ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 14:19
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I've always felt EoE was ultimately a positive message. Shinji succumbs to his deepest failings, but he still prefers that individuality over the murkiness of instrumentality.
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Jun 4, 2013 15:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:If you're talking about the interview I think you're talking about, that was Kazuya Tsurumaki, not Anno. I know that is who was being interviewed but I am almost positive he was discussing Anno's intentions there. I may be mistaken tho'
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Jun 4, 2013 17:38
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I said come in! posted:I feel like it ruined Shinji for me, and comes real close to ruining Rei for me. But I have a question anyways; so basically the 3rd impact happens and wipes out the rest of the world? Why does Shinji and Asuka survive though? Are you making a point of just not watching the TV series or something? End of Evangelion is its ending, you're missing 24~ episodes of contextualization to help it make any sense. And EoE is already confusing as gently caress.
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Jun 4, 2013 17:55
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Giggily posted:Are you making a point of just not watching the TV series or something? End of Evangelion is its ending, you're missing 24~ episodes of contextualization to help it make any sense. And EoE is already confusing as gently caress. I did watch it! I watched the whole thing, I even posted as much. The series was pretty good.
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Jun 4, 2013 17:55
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ImpAtom posted:I know that is who was being interviewed but I am almost positive he was discussing Anno's intentions there. I may be mistaken tho' Is this it? http://www.gwern.net/otaku#section-15 posted:In short, this new movie version is really for the purpose of clearing the ground for the "next Eva"? It's a bit vague. I can see Rebuild as potentially more hopeful, but EoE is hardly hopeless.
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Jun 4, 2013 18:55
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EoE is one of my favourite movies. It has the perfect blend of action, character drama, and postermodern mindfucking. I love how relentlessly bleak and punishing it is, but yet how hugely cathartic it is. The entire komm suesser tod sequence devastates me every time I watch it. I wasn't being sarcastic before when I said I found the loved ones appearing to the characters before they pop incredibly affecting. EoE also has the best animation of the entire franchise, hands down. They really hosed up the US dub though. They added bizarre cartoony sound effects and the mix is totally off. It sounds like the voice actors are doing a commentary track.
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Jun 4, 2013 19:30
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I never really got the hopeless vibe from EoE because I never thought the tang was killing anybody, just that everybody was being reduced to a sea of LCL while combining everybody's consciousness. Maybe after everybody was tangified the LCL would have taken the shape of a giant Eva in a reverse-process of how the Angels burst into LCL when they are killed. Who knows though we never saw it. 3.3 seems to suggest that humans either morphed into Evas, or Evas were created by the tang, because there are just so drat many of them off in the distance. EDIT: loving hate the English audio dubs of Eva. The voice actors are just annoying, regardless of what it is. I hate coming off as a purist because I used to hate subs, but hearing the Japanese audio and English subtitles is just a nicer experience. Even if you get an .MKV file with english/japenese audio AND english subtitles, you can see what the english voice actors are saying is slightly different than the subtitles. I just feel like I'm getting the 'full' experience this way. It's also funny to hear people speaking this crazy moon language with a single English word thrown in now and then. Also I know what the word "Baka" means now. Of course with subtitles only, you can't leave it on as background noise when you're doing chores or something because if you aren't there to constantly read rhe screen you'll be lost. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 19:31
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ACanofPepsi posted:I never really got the hopeless vibe from EoE because I never thought the tang was killing anybody, just that everybody was being reduced to a sea of LCL while combining everybody's consciousness. When I talk about it being bleak, I mean the fact that Shinji is absolutely at his lowest ebb, basically catatonic, Misato is killed, Asuka meets probably the nastiest end of anyone in the whole franchise, and everything basically goes to poo poo... then the world ends. I feel the prevailing message is certainly one of hope and release and acceptance, but you have to go through hell to get that. It's why it's so cathartic! quote:loving hate the English audio dubs of Eva. The voice actors are just annoying, regardless of what it is. I particularly dislike Asuka's dub voice. The actor does a fine job but she sounds like a middle-aged mom from Texas or something. I'm in the "I don't understand the point of Mari and she just seems like merchandise fodder" camp, but I was actually really impressed with her English voice, when I heard it. She just sounds loving hyperactive giddy mental, like she's having the time of her life. They replaced the English voice for Rei in the Rebuild movies and she seems a lot less generic too. quote:Even if you get an .MKV file with english/japenese audio AND english subtitles, you can see what the english voice actors are saying is slightly different than the subtitles. I just feel like I'm getting the 'full' experience this way. You're falling into a bit of a trap here. The original subtitles track is only one translation of the original script. Even if it's technically more accurate, it may not be conveying the same emotional cues, or even information, as it did in the original language, because of the complicated way language and different cultures work. You can never have a 'full' translated experience as you put it, only a different one. A version of a version of a version. As I'm sure some anime nerds in here know, learning a bit of Japanese makes everything quite weird. In Nausicaa, when they see a massive ship flying towards them, one of the guys goes, in the translation, "It's enormous!", all amazed/terrified, but in the Japanese one he literally just says "Big!". But "big" doesn't have the connotations of amazement/terror the original version does.
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Jun 4, 2013 20:12
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Edit: ^^ Oh man you have no idea about Asuka's VA.  Edit 2: I can't seem to find the video where she shows off her Asuka collection Popcorn posted:I don't remember this happening! is it actually in Eva somewhere or is this some fan thing? Any time I hear/think/read that I'm almost always certain it's in the series. Nothing makes me call bullshit on Eva when it comes to things being weird or unusual. Syrant fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 21:01
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Syrant posted:Edit: ^^ Oh man you have no idea about Asuka's VA. Tiffany Grant  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzvIn0mdXtY [edit] IT JUST KEEPS GOING
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Jun 4, 2013 21:37
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I said come in! posted:I did watch it! I watched the whole thing, I even posted as much. The series was pretty good. I must've missed that then.  Ak Gara posted:Tiffany Grant Learning that Tiffany Grant is loving insane more or less destroyed my ability to enjoy the english dub.
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Jun 4, 2013 22:31
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Giggily posted:I must've missed that then. If I did miss stuff its because I watched 3/4ths of the series all at once. Each episode is only around 23 minutes, but that's still a lot to take in. That said, I did understand at least half of what was going on in EoE. It's pretty much once the 3rd impact is about to happen that the whole thing just flew right over my head.
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Jun 4, 2013 22:35
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The techno babble in the show can get quite thick at times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtUpWihJJJ4&t=484s
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Jun 4, 2013 22:59
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