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The Winds of Words.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:40
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savinhill posted:Joramun's using the royal "we" 'cuz he was really saying stuff like that back then. I was but a young girl who knew little in the ways of bad threads.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:42
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Remember when we thought Joramun was Azure_Horizon's sockpuppet? Those were the days...of high adventure! 
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Aug 22, 2013 20:48
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Everyone knows words are windy.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:52
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Has this ever been posted?: http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Contents.html It's long-winded but good.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:53
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ShaqDiesel posted:Has this ever been posted?: What in the holy gently caress. This is more disturbing than anything written by George.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:58
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a person crazier about these books than even A_H posted:One observation led to another, and I found myself having written fifteen thousand words, and still feeling superficial I mean, I think Kylaer's fanfic still tops that but at least that involved 40k (read: didn't need much thought) and wasn't a loving plot analysis of four chapters. E: I'm sorry, this person wrote One Hundred Fifty Thousand Words on these four chapters (the other 150k being quotes, apparently). Kylaer is clearly beat and we should take his continued silence as shame for having failed in his attempt to write the most idiotic thing involving ASOIAF. whowhatwhere fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 20:58
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I couldn't get through the rough overview while I'm here at work, but what the hell is that? At least we can estimate the Kolmogorov complexity of those chapters...
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Aug 22, 2013 21:02
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I do still think Vic's, Cersei's, Barristan's, Bran's and Arya's chapters in ADWD, along with Theon and Jeyne's heart-stopping escape from Winterfell, were great enough by themselves to redeem the book as a whole. Despite how very, very bad it got at times (most notably Jon Snow getting more chapters in the book than any other character and almost all of them being utterly terrible), the good still outweighed the bad. I can't say the same for AFFC, of which only Cersei's chapters I have any desire of ever reading again because that arc truly was spectacularly plotted and written. Her reign was just such a beautiful disaster. Jon Snow turning into a bad character whose chapters are nothing but a slog to get through already started in ASOS btw, so that can't be put entirely on the shoulders of ADWD either.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:23
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Tyrion was worse than John Snow. John at least killed Janos Slynt, Tyrion rode a pig.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:26
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Is it wrong that I really hate Penny? Because I really hate Penny. I can almost see conceptually where GRRM thought she was a good idea, but it's like he totally forgot why anyone would possibly want to see Tyrion do anything. She was a one chapter character at best and instead we had her tumbling in a cabin with Tyrion for what felt like half of his chapters.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:28
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Jeffrey posted:Tyrion was worse than John Snow. John at least killed Janos Slynt, Tyrion rode a pig. I actually didn't mind Tyrion's chapters in ADWD. The locations he visited, characters he met, and stuff that happened to him were pretty varied and interesting. I don't have an irrational hatred for Penny like some others seem to, either. In terms of quality of the ADWD chapters of the four major returning POV characters, Bran > Tyrion > Dany > Jon, IMO.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:35
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Don't forget Bran's chapters ending in complete stupidity, and Dany becoming an even more useless character.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:35
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Dany's chapters in DWD were worth it just for the "aroused by their arousal" line.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:39
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Huh. Bran and Jon were my favorite parts of ADWD, with Aegon at the end. Maybe I'm just wrong.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:40
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Clearly you are 
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Aug 22, 2013 21:42
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captain platypus posted:Huh. Bran and Jon were my favorite parts of ADWD, with Aegon at the end. Maybe I'm just wrong. You may be forgiven if by "Jon" you mean Connington, rather than Snow. Even though Victarion's chapters should just be everyone's favorite part of ADWD, in general.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:44
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ShaqDiesel posted:Has this ever been posted?: I've reading this over the past few days and it is really loving long-winded. I can't say I agree with all of their conclusions, but there is some absolutely stellar analysis in there. I never knew how much Roose loved horses.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:48
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My favorite point of view character in ADWD was the one where not a single plot advanced forward except some random switched at birth baby who just showed up out of nowhere for no reason and my god am I reading General Hospital? Now that I've come accept that these two books are just a really long Clash of Kings, I'm much more happy with the fact that nothing happens and he's just building stuff up.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:49
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Don't forget Bran's chapters ending in complete stupidity, and Dany becoming an even more useless character. Finally an excuse to use this after someone posted a Beauty and the Beast gif (which, I just realized is doubly funny because GURM wrote for the grimdark 80s romantic crime drama series of the same name.) Pretty pale princess Dany is going back to rule the ruthless hordes of swarthy people because dragons. So here, have some racism to go with the sexism and rapism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0Rau01wbeo
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Aug 22, 2013 21:54
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Hahahahaha rapism.
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Aug 22, 2013 22:04
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ShaqDiesel posted:Has this ever been posted?: He makes a lot of salient points, especially with how much we learned about Winterfell in ADWD. The theory that a ton of magic is flowing out of it (even Winter itself) is pretty interesting.
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Aug 22, 2013 22:28
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I'm not reading all this bullshit, but does he cover the irrefutable fact that Varys is a merman?
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Aug 22, 2013 22:44
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:I'm not reading all this bullshit, but does he cover the irrefutable fact that Varys is a merman? No, because to reasonably explore the nuances of that theory they'd need six hundred thousand words. Both, of course, pale before the effort they would have to go to explaining how Tyrion is irrefutably a Targaryen.
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Aug 22, 2013 23:01
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The worst part about AFFC/ADWD is that not a single plot concludes in those books, the pacing is terrible, The cutoff point between the "After the feast" chapters in ADWD only serves to make both books worse. You have AFFC, in which Brienne and Cersei's story sort of have decent buildup and conclusions and are rather self-contained, but then Jaime, Ironborn, Arya, Sam and Dorne are just cut off half way through without anything conclusive really happening. ADWD 'after the feast' chapters then pick up on those story lines and don't really advance most of them except for Cersei, Sam isn't even present as the next Sam chapter is bound to reveal a bit too much than the GRRM is really willing to reveal when the other plots stagnate so much. The Arya chapter is completely pointless, the Victarion chapters own but they don't advance the plot in any meaningful manner, Cersei's chapter is rather poor and serves merely as an epilogue to her AFFC adventures. The single Dorne/Areo chapter pretty much only serves to alert the reader that "some time has passed, we're now back in Dorne and after the events of AFFC". Davos' ADWD chapters might be the worst offenders as they are drat good chapters that just disappear once there's a real prospect that they might actually advance the plot. Theon/Asha also just trail off on the cusp of something actually happening.
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Aug 22, 2013 23:17
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Disagree on Theon, Jon, Dany and Tyrion. Their plots clearly end at a resolution of the relevant character arcs. Theon rebuilds himself from his destruction at the hands of Ramsay, accepts what he's done and what's been done to him, and ends up trying to do what's right even though it won't make up for his sins. Jon fucks up ruling so catastrophically that his men turn on him and (attempt to, most likely successfully) kill him. Dany realizes that trying to rule as a "mother" is a waste of time, that she's not good at it anyway, and that what she is good at is conquest. She ends the plot about to attempt to take over a khalasar. Tyrion ends his arc having processed his actions, his role in the world as a dwarf, a known regicide, and a Lannister, and resolves to take back his birthright (because not being a Lannister sucks. He's still not a good person after ADWD). No, there isn't a final resolution of any overarching plot thread but even if a lot of them are poo poo they do generally resolve themselves.
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Aug 22, 2013 23:31
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The worst part about AFFC/ADWD is that not a single plot concludes in those books, the pacing is terrible, The cutoff point between the "After the feast" chapters in ADWD only serves to make both books worse. I was quite pleased when Buddy got killed by the dragons, because at least it ended a plot thread.
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Aug 22, 2013 23:36
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rypakal posted:My favorite point of view character in ADWD was the one where not a single plot advanced forward except some random switched at birth baby who just showed up out of nowhere for no reason and my god am I reading General Hospital? In hindsight, this happy horseshit began with Bran the coma boy. ZOMG! will he wake up and spill the neeps on the incestuous fuckings? Will Ned discover the terrible secret Jon Arryn died for? Who really are Jon Snow's parents? Who poisoned J.B. or was it all a green dream? Stay tuned! It's almost as if GRRM developed his literary chops writing TV serials. But, what the gently caress do I know? Seldom Posts, there are theories out there that the Crispy Prince is still alive. Imma stick my head in a bucket now.
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Aug 22, 2013 23:43
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Most times, it's hard to even tell the difference between A Song of Ice and Fire chapter summaries and The Bold and the Beautiful episode recaps on SoapCentral. Both have people coming back from the dead all the time, secret heirs, luciously flowing hair, fistfights to the death, spies whispering and plotting in the hallways, characters plunging to their deaths off high bridges, legal battles and discussions about parentage, incest, wedding massacres, various Houses vying for eachother's wealth and power, fabulous long gowns, and so on. Rhaegar Targaryen is basically a Ridge Forrester expy.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:04
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So who would McKenzie Westmore play?
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Aug 23, 2013 00:05
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Gygaxian posted:Finally finished A Dance With Dragons. That was the worst slog of a book I've ever managed to finish. I liked the chapters with Jon Connington and Aegon near the end, and chapters featuring Stannis are always great, but otherwise, it's so awful. Especially the Danerys chapters. I thought you guys were kidding with the "brown water" thing. My opinion is that the worst part of the book by far is Bran learning to fly. The end of Dany's plotline is terrible, but the fact that Bran's five-book quest to learn to fly is fulfilled by hearing the phrase "Just warg into a raven, it's easy" (and it is, he doesn't even get a proper training montage, he goes from nothing to full flight in the span of a paragraph) is far worse. It's something he could have done long prior to that, if he'd only thought of it. It's not a unique or unheard-of talent, either, since Orell is a bit-part character and could do it, and so could Varamyr. So, his flight, the completion of all his dreams and prophesies, turns out to be nothing special. In a book full of let-downs, that is the greatest. whowhatwhere posted:Kylaer is clearly beat and we should take his continued silence as shame for having failed in his attempt to write the most idiotic thing involving ASOIAF. I didn't try to write something idiotic, I just tried to write something fun, and let no barrier of plausibility stand in my way 
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Aug 23, 2013 00:29
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:So who would McKenzie Westmore play? Strong Belwas, because that's how GoT's casting directors cast brown people.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:38
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The worst part about AFFC/ADWD is that not a single plot concludes in those books, the pacing is terrible, The cutoff point between the "After the feast" chapters in ADWD only serves to make both books worse. It is horribly telling that not once did you mention Tyrion.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:40
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I've noticed that by the time you get to AFFC/ADWD that there are so many bad plot threads that your mind can only encompass so many at any given time. No matter how comprehensive your knowledge may be there will always be one plot thread you're just forgetting about entirely when thinking about it or discussing it.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:44
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Fog Tripper posted:It is horribly telling that not once did you mention Tyrion. They should have loosed the lions.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:58
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We all know that when/if ASOIAF ends Tyrion will rule house Lannister with Penny as his lady wife and its supposed to come off as this grand ironic moment with two dwarves being the legacy of the bigot Tywin Lannister but really, is it worth it? Really George, at what cost?
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Aug 23, 2013 01:03
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whowhatwhere posted:Disagree on Theon, Jon, Dany and Tyrion. Their plots clearly end at a resolution of the relevant character arcs. I agree completely. Someone had a really good post like 30 pages ago about ADWD being about "identity", and this ties in with that. The book didn't really progress the overall plot as much as hoped for, but it did explore and develop the identities of the characters very well (for better or worse). The problem was Tyrion, Dany, and Jon could have been developed just as effectively in about half the number of chapters, and this is made even more apparent since Theon's chapters are among the most powerful of the series. Kylaer posted:My opinion is that the worst part of the book by far is Bran learning to fly... So, his flight, the completion of all his dreams and prophesies, turns out to be nothing special. In a book full of let-downs, that is the greatest. I still hold fast to "but you will fly" meaning he is going to warg into and/or ride a Dragon. Probably the green one.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:11
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McKenzie Westmore was sitting at her kitchen table, about to start cutting into her forearms with a rusty bread knife, when her cell phone started buzzing on a cabinet behind her. Startled and disoriented, she stared at it for a while. Was this real or was she just imagining things again? Was someone really calling her? She let the bread knife fall to the floor, missing her dear cat which was sleeping at her feet by a hair's breadth, and stood up from her chair. As if looking down at herself from the ceiling, she witnessed her scarred, pale and veiny hand slowly moving towards the phone, picking it up, pressing a button and moving it towards her ear. "H-- Hello?" Her voice trembled like the nubile body of a young maiden, on the cusp of losing her maidenhead to a dashing Prince. "Hi there!" a chipper voice answered on the other side of the line. "Is this McKenzie?" The confident voice took no time to wait for an answer and continued, because life is short and time is money and who even has the time to wait for things on the phone. "I would like to inform you on behalf of the Game of Thrones casting department that you have been selected for the role of Strong Belwas, warrior eunuch. Congratulations!" McKenzie felt as if she had just been lifted into the Heavens by a very Angel. "It can't be. You're kidding," she stuttered. The voice on the other side wasn't listening, because life is short and time is money and who even has the time to listen to things on the phone. She told McKenzie the time and date of her first shoot and some other directions and instructions and summarily hung up, because life is short and time is money and who even has the time to say goodbye on the phone. McKenzie put down the phone and stumbled towards the front door of her disheveled and derelict apartment. She opened it slowly and looked outside, the rays of the Sun hitting her face for the first time in seven months, warming her and taking her in its embrace like a friend she had not seen or heard from in years. She felt alive again. She was not dead yet. Her entire life was about to start anew and afresh. She was going to be a star on a hit HBO program, a critically acclaimed period piece, she vaguely recalled, about semen and the human anus, or something thereabouts. She couldn't entirely remember, but it did not matter. Nothing mattered, and yet everything mattered. It all mattered so much. She was just overwhelmed by how much it mattered. How much all things mattered. Things like life, and death, and the Universe, and Art and creative endeavors in general, and the human spirit, and the will to survive, and rebirth and forgiveness, and HBO television programs. She had forgotten. But now, now she remembered. Fin.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:18
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 It's beautiful. Quick, someone tweet that to her. https://twitter.com/mckenziewestmor
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Aug 23, 2013 01:40
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Lena Headey was lying face-down on the floor of her apartment. She had just achieved sentience and was unsure what to do with herself. Her life and very being felt different, and yet everything felt shockingly the same. She decided against getting up, and kept lying on the floor. It was uncomfortable, but then again, wasn't that just what life was in general? Uncomfortable. The word felt right, it felt like home. It took her in its warm embrace and comforted her. To Lena Headey, it was its own antonym. Back on the Game of Thrones set, in an unspecified Eastern European country, where the scenery was beautiful, the filming cheap, and the local villagers quaint but friendly, her co-stars where just emerging from their sleeping pods. These oozing, veiny cocoons were made from ostrich flesh and filled with a mysterious liquid that kept them looking young and fresh and healthy and radiant and sprightly, at a cost which would only reveal itself much later, when the show would be long-canceled, and they themselves long-forgotten by television viewers and general mankind alike. Kit Harrington yawned and wished his fellow just-awakened thespians, all of whom he consided dear friends and sometimes even lovers, a diddly-duddly good morning. After a couple of minutes of stretching, he noticed Lena was missing. "Has anyone seen Lena?" he asked, but nobody had. They became worried. They started fretting. They went running around the camp, their arms flailing and their faces quivering with fear. One of their own had vanished. There was something wrong in the world, a glitch in the system, a hole in reality. They would not, could not, calm down again until she was back in their midst and everything was right again. HBO then decided it wasn't worth the trouble, shut down production and set the entire camp, with all the cast and crew, equipment and animals in it, ablaze. The fire raged for hours and devoured any and all things in its reach. Everything perished and nothing survived. The next morning, the Sun came up behind the mountains and bathed the beautiful landscape in its nurturing rays. It was a new day, a new world. God smiled down from the Heavens and felt proud of His creation for the first time in aeons. Lena Headey was never seen or heard from again, and is presumed to be still lying on her kitchen floor, uncomfortable but comfortable at he same time, because that is what life is, and what it has always been and what it always will be. Fin.
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Aug 23, 2013 02:01
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