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Cpt.Wacky posted:Lucky you, although they may be sterile seeds. None of mine set any fruit this year. They were all from commercial seed potatoes. These are my notes gleaned from watching a few videos of Tom Wagner of New World Crops. Thanks, that's awesome. What's TSP? Mine are literally from some potatoes I bought in the supermarket. Don't even know the variety, they were too cheap to have it on the packet. If they're sterile that's fine, it's just something I thought would be fun to try, if it doesn't work it doesn't work.
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Aug 22, 2013 01:33
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Fatkraken posted:Thanks, that's awesome. What's TSP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate
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Aug 22, 2013 01:40
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Fatkraken posted:Thanks, that's awesome. What's TSP? If you can't find it at the supermarket or hardware store I think he said in the video that you could still get by with really hot water. The gel around the seed inhibits germination so that's why you want to get it off. You could try growing some of them once they are harvested. No need to wait until next year only to find out they're duds. These are the videos I was taking notes from. He talks about growing from true seed, selecting the best plants to grow seed tubers, harvesting the seeds and so on. It's a bit scattered which is why I took notes instead of trying to watch the videos again.
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Aug 22, 2013 01:51
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Cpt.Wacky posted:
How does something like that reproduce in nature? I finally got my first two raised beds mostly set up. Did the sheet mulching:   Filled them up with a pile of equal parts wood chips and horse manure, plus my fruit scraps. Let it sit there for 3 months, before I used it today. 
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Aug 22, 2013 05:19
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Fozzy The Bear posted:How does something like that reproduce in nature?
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Aug 22, 2013 09:59
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TheMightyHandful posted:Presumably the birds/bugs/other that eat the seeds digest the stuff around the seed and poop it put and it grows in the manure? Yeah, all that complicated seed prep is usually because the seed would be eaten in nature and the target animals digestive system would do all the work. It's a pain for any nurseries that grow seed contained in berries because a lot of the time the seed won't grow without some kind of treatment, seed from berries that fall next to the parent tree would just be outcompeted by the tree if they sprouted, so by only allowing digestion-treated seed to sprout the tree maximises the chance of a seedling being successful and being far away from the source. It's a reason you often see tomato plants and bramble growing round sewage works.
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Aug 22, 2013 11:50
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Mizufusion posted:I don't know about establishing the vines, but grape vines usually get pruned every year after they lose their leaves. My mother used to grow a couple varieties, and she hacked back everything but the strongest vines. Every year they came back and grew like crazy. Right now I have one sad grapevine in my yard that was planted by previous owners. It hadn't been tended to in several years, but seems to be doing better now. I pruned everything but the central vine over the winter, and now it's taking over the trellis it lives on. Didn't produce much fruit this year, but what I did get was pretty good. Oh trust me, I've been reading up on the pruning. I am specifically interested in the practice (comparing trees to vines) of cutting off fruit the first couple years. My 1 year old cutting had a couple clusters of grapes and is only about 2' tall at this point. I went ahead and removed the clusters in any event. It's not as if I'd have done anything with them. Hopefully it will encourage length-growth of the main vine.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:36
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Fatkraken posted:Yeah, all that complicated seed prep is usually because the seed would be eaten in nature and the target animals digestive system would do all the work. It's a pain for any nurseries that grow seed contained in berries because a lot of the time the seed won't grow without some kind of treatment, seed from berries that fall next to the parent tree would just be outcompeted by the tree if they sprouted, so by only allowing digestion-treated seed to sprout the tree maximises the chance of a seedling being successful and being far away from the source. It's a reason you often see tomato plants and bramble growing round sewage works.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:43
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Can I just feed them to my hens and let them do the work?
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Aug 22, 2013 16:51
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Can I just feed them to my hens and let them do the work? With non toxic plants this can actually work very well, I think they did it for some tree on Maritius using turkeys because it had previously relied on dodos. But you absolutely MUST check that the fruit is safe for your birds to eat before feeding it to them, potato berries are quite toxic
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Aug 22, 2013 19:00
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So my first year growing a garden has been a success. Learned a lot and I think fall/winter and next spring will be even better. My one tomato plant produced so much that I could not use up the supply. It's looking worse and worse every day with the hot Southern California sun, but still getting 5+ per week out of it. Thai chilis are all still producing well. I will have a lot of left over, but they're good fresh picked or dried so no big deal. The Basil plant is huge and keeps going. Parsley was well used and hanging in. Definitely got the $1.5 cost out of it. Bell peppers are finally kicking in, have harvested 3 reds and 8 more green on the plant at this time. Only failure was zucchini. Even with hand pollinating them, they produced nothing. Chalking it up to sometimes things don't work. Onto my onions. I've loved having fresh onions whenever I wanted them. I'm down to half a dozen still in the ground(planted in early March) and they've all started sprouting new green "leaves." Their first green "leaves" died off in June when it started warming up and I just left them in the ground. Can I just leave them in the ground and keep using them like I have been, pulling only what I needed each time and leaving the rest in the ground? None of them are huge, a little smaller than a tennis ball. Will they get bigger with this new growth?
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Aug 24, 2013 03:19
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Cpt.Wacky posted:
I've always wondered if this should be based on the year the tree was planted or the actual age of the tree? I bought a peach tree this year that was already 6 ft tall and seemed to have already had the initial pruning done so there was no fruit, I would say its 2 years old. I'm wondering if I should remove them all next year or proceed with the normal fruit set/thinning.
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Aug 24, 2013 20:44
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/\/\ I always interpreted it as after planting, since when you (and me too) got the tree from the store/nursery, it was in a little bucket. So even though the tree itself is big (mine are as big as me with my arms stretched over my head, 7+feet), it's roots were all in that tiny bucket. So they need to spend some time rooting properly into the ground before they spend their energy making fruit. I will pinch my blossoms next year, but probably let some fruit the year after (if their growth continues to go well and disease stays in check.) I'll have blackberries and strawberries next year to eat/preserve, in addition to the veggies, so I can be patient for apples.
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Aug 25, 2013 15:27
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When is the best time of year to plant apple trees? I'm in NC for reference so our winters are milder, but we still get one or two snows a year and our spring happens a little earlier than the north.
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Aug 25, 2013 15:42
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Alterian posted:When is the best time of year to plant apple trees? I'm in NC for reference so our winters are milder, but we still get one or two snows a year and our spring happens a little earlier than the north. Fruit trees are best planted when dormant, usually spring or fall but spring is more common.
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Aug 25, 2013 17:35
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Disallowing fruiting the first year is not something I do or see as necessary. If the plant can't handle fruiting, it wont. And most plants alternate between growth and fruiting stages but pinching wont generally force them to switch over. Plus it's nice to get a few pieces of fruit during the early years.
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Aug 25, 2013 17:46
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I used to work in a plant research lab and I grew thousands of Datura (they're in the tomato/potato family). I scratched the seeds with sandpaper then soaked them in water for a couple days. They sprouted every time. Actually now that I think about it we did the same thing with tomatoes too.
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Aug 26, 2013 04:12
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razz posted:I used to work in a plant research lab and I grew thousands of Datura (they're in the tomato/potato family). I scratched the seeds with sandpaper then soaked them in water for a couple days. They sprouted every time. More details please. Including grit, how much sandpaper, etc. and where they went after the water (right into soil?).
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Aug 26, 2013 06:54
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Can I just feed them to my hens and let them do the work? To begin with, you could poison your chickens. Secondly chickens have rather robust gizzards, so I'm pretty sure they'd grind up the seeds.
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Aug 26, 2013 18:29
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Fatkraken posted:potato berries are quite toxic So let me get this straight... Nature created potatoes that produce seeds inside a berry that can't sprout on their own. The berry needs birds to eat them in order to germinate. But the potato makes the berry toxic to the birds that the potato needs to reproduce, killing any bird stupid enough to help the potato.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:39
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Motronic posted:More details please. Including grit, how much sandpaper, etc. and where they went after the water (right into soil?). It's been a while but I think I can remember. I used fairly fine-grit sandpaper and folded it in half (sandpaper side in). I would put maybe 8-10 seeds inside and gently scratch the sandpaper all over them. The seeds were dark so you could tell if you were scratching them because they'd get white. If you scratch too hard you will crush them. I would kind of set the seeds on one half of the sandpaper and roll the other side over them, if that makes sense. So the sandpaper was kinda floppy on one side where I had rolled it. Then I soaked them in water. This is the part I can't remember. Was it one full day or 3 full days? You could try an experiment. It was a few years ago. But they were soaked in plain water for at least one full day. Then I would plant the seeds as usual. Put them maybe 1/2 inch down in the soil, water the pot really well,and cover the pot with plastic wrap. When they got tall enough they were touching the plastic wrap, I'd take it off and then water as usual. I had great success with this method.
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Aug 26, 2013 23:19
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OK, awesome, thanks. This is something I'll try over the winter with leftover seeds and use int he spring if it works well.
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Aug 27, 2013 00:05
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Cool, let me know if it works for you! I grew the plants in a growth chamber which was temperature/humidity controlled plus had a growlight, which obviously made it a lot easier to get things to grow than if you were just doing it at home 
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Aug 27, 2013 01:13
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razz posted:Cool, let me know if it works for you! I grew the plants in a growth chamber which was temperature/humidity controlled plus had a growlight, which obviously made it a lot easier to get things to grow than if you were just doing it at home Yeah, I don't have that kind of fancy stuff, but I do have a heat mat and grow lights and monitor temp/humidity under the ghetto plexi cover I made for my scrap wood propagation table in the greenhouse.
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Aug 27, 2013 01:17
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Fozzy The Bear posted:So let me get this straight... No. That reproductive strategy is used by many plants, but not ones with toxic fruit, because, like you said, that would be stupid.  Usually ones with sweet, tasty fruit do this. Potato berries will release their seeds readily via general decomposition, or cutting up the berry and soaking it in water for a while until the seeds fall to the bottom.
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Aug 27, 2013 01:41
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Fozzy The Bear posted:So let me get this straight...
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Aug 27, 2013 01:49
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AlistairCookie posted:No. Some plants (wild hot pepper plants for example) evolved to have their seeds spread by birds. That's why they're hot, so mammals won't eat them because mammals would destroy the seeds, but birds won't. So they have this adaptation to get their seeds spread by the right type of animal. Obviously this means that birds can't detect spiciness (capsaicin). And tons of mammals eat them now (humans!)
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Aug 27, 2013 02:33
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Fozzy The Bear posted:So let me get this straight... Dead bird = fertilizer. 
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Aug 27, 2013 03:31
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Welp. My brandwyine tomato has come under a major case of blossom end rot. I think I'm going to abandon my efforts with it, almost every fruit is half-rotted.  I suspect that my roommate has been being helpful (by overwatering everything) while I'm at work - he grew lots of weed so he's convinced he's a master gardener, but I think getting too much water caused the end rot. razz posted:Obviously this means that birds can't detect spiciness (capsaicin).
coyo7e fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 22:10
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/\/\ Yup. Cayenne. It is pretty funny to watch them sneezing and compulsively grooming after getting a hold of something spicy. Serves them right for being thieving little bastards. This past weekend, I found a huge green tomato with a couple bites out of it, way on the other side of my yard. They give the chipmunks stiff competition for Assholes of the Garden. Too much water could have caused the rot. It is usually a combo-effort of inconsistent watering and low calcium. I started getting a hint of it on my san marzanos weeks ago; I put a Tums in the dirt by each plant and started watering every other day, no excuses, (if no rain) and it never got any worse than about one or two mildly marred fruit per cluster. Production has been unaffected, thankfully. Next year, I am going to be sure to add calcium periodically throughout the growing season (as opposed to once at planting and forgetting about it after that.)
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Aug 28, 2013 01:41
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I use to put Cayenne in my chicken feed to stop my dogs from eating it until I caught my dumb lab powering through it to eat it. He was a drooling, snotty mess.
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Aug 28, 2013 03:36
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Since I noticed a bit of talk on seed germination, thought I'd drop a little more embryonic knowledge for the thread! Scratching the seed coat for germination is called scarification. Scarification is a necessary procedure in some seeds to allow water to reach the interior of the seed and begin the germination process. This process can obviously be done directly with sandpaper or the like, or can be done indirectly through seed movement through sandy soil, animal activity, or simply time wearing down the seed coat. Oh, and the best way to properly scarify seeds is to line the inside of a small paper box (match box) with sandpaper and shake it. You can shake it like a polaroid picture if you want to, but you must shake it. Other seeds need to reach a certain minimum temperature to germinate. There are lots of biological processes in nature that require a certain number of chilling hours, or have a chill requirement. Light is another outside force that can be necessary for germination. Some seeds only germinate when exposed to certain amounts of light in the correct spectrum, and only if that was the correct light the seed was exposed to last. coyo7e: Blossom end rot is not a disease, it is merely a physiological disorder caused by a lack of calcium in the blossom end. Overwatering typically does not cause this, but an incorrect soil pH or lack of adequate available calcium in the soil usually does. Overwatering tomatoes typically leads to splitting and other deformities, but not actual blossom end rot.
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Aug 28, 2013 05:05
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AUSgoons may be interested in the ABC vegie guide app on iOS (not sure about android). Looks pretty cool with guide for planting in different climates, note taking for next year etc.
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Aug 28, 2013 08:10
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Alterian posted:I use to put Cayenne in my chicken feed to stop my dogs from eating it until I caught my dumb lab powering through it to eat it. He was a drooling, snotty mess. My dog is a big, slobbering idiot about spicy food too. Caught her licking a pile of cayenne that spilled. "Oh god why does it hurt so much! Must eat more!" 
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Aug 28, 2013 14:06
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BlackHattingMachine posted:
Split tomatoes are a symptom of inconsistent watering, not overwatering.
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Aug 28, 2013 19:04
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coyo7e posted:Weird because every resource I looked at said overwatering can be a culprit. It's not the excessive water that's the issue for blossom end rot, it's the lack of calcium. Heavily watered plants tend to not establish good root depth and size, and therefore are unable to 'mine' enough calcium for the fruits the plant wants to set. So, if a plant has a good, established root system, overwatering won't directly cause blossom end rot, but I guess in a roundabout way you could blame overwatering indirectly causing lovely root systems. Splitting tomatoes are caused by an excess of water uptake that causes the receptacle to expand (by new cell growth and cellular expansion) past the flexibility and ability of the endocarp to contain it and burst, and whether you want to call that issue overwatering or inconsistent watering doesn't really matter much. I should have not said "overwatering", and said "excessive water during fruiting" instead. My whole point though, was not to trash your tomato plants due to the BER, since you simply need to correct the calcium deficiency and you'll have a new set of fruits that won't have any issues. Delicious, delicious brandywine tomatoes.
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Aug 28, 2013 20:10
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Does anyone have some insight on sheet composting? My garden didn't flourish at my new (first!  ) house nearly as much as I had hoped, and my guess is the soil is just too dry/rocky. However, I'm working with it still and going to sift through and get as many of the small rocks out after I dig everything up for the year. I have plenty of trees in my back yard (a lilac, crab apple, a huge oak, mountain ash, etc) so I'll have plenty of leaves and wanted to do the layering method but wanted some insight on how well this works? I saw a few ways like cardboard ->newspaper->leaves-> repeat followed by garbage bags over top to help insulate the whole thing but how would it work with say just leaves and newspaper, or just leaves?
54 40 or fuck fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 14:37
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Toriori posted:Does anyone have some insight on sheet composting? My garden didn't flourish at my new (first! You need a variety of substances in compost to make it work. Just leaves means you will have all brown dry matter and no fresh green matter. If you did leaves and lawn clippings than yes you dont need carboard, but you wouldnt be sheet composting, just composting. How much space are you planning on turning into a garden? If you are having trouble with your soil you may be able to rent a tiller, till the entire thing, get your local materials company to drop off 6 yards of garden soil and compost and then till that into the native soil. That would make a big loving garden.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:46
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Errant Gin Monks posted:You need a variety of substances in compost to make it work. Just leaves means you will have all brown dry matter and no fresh green matter. If you did leaves and lawn clippings than yes you dont need carboard, but you wouldnt be sheet composting, just composting. How much space are you planning on turning into a garden? I have one 3x4 area and another 3x3 area , but I'm going to expand the smaller one today after work. I have access to plenty of cardboard from work and we have a huge lawn so lawn clippings won't be an issue either. The soil isn't a total write off luckily, just sounds some good old fashioned TLC I think.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:54
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Toriori posted:Does anyone have some insight on sheet composting? My garden didn't flourish at my new (first! If your soil is dry and rocky then it's probably lacking in organic matter. You want to till in a few inches of compost every year until it gets better. If it's too hard to till then you can look sheet mulching. Sheet mulching is typically used to kill grass and prepare an area for planting without having to till. It isn't necessarily easier or cheaper since you need to source a lot of materials to do it right. This is what I do for sheet mulching: Mow the grass as low as I possibly can without the blade getting stuck in the ground. Water the whole area very thoroughly. Come back after 15 minutes and water it again once or twice. Sprinkle blood meal over the whole area. I use about 1 cup per 10-15 square feet. This provides lots of nitrogen to kickstart the decomposition. Cover everything with cardboard, overlapping any holes or edges by 12 inches. If your area is up against any walls or borders it's a good idea to dig a narrow trench and tuck the edge of the cardboard down in it at least a few inches. Cover the cardboard with as much organic material as you can. Grass, straw, compost, etc. Finish with a layer of wood chips. Some stuff like bracken ferns and blackberries will find their way up through the sheet mulch no matter what but you can keep most of the dandelions from breaking through if you have at least 2-3" inches of material. If you can get it done by the end of summer then the area should be ready for planting in the spring. Just dig holes through the cardboard which is probably already disintegrated and transplant your starts. Don't worry about the rocks unless it's like 50% or more gravel.
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Aug 29, 2013 17:05
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