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In my experience, contacts (especially recurring Johnsons) can also pretty much come to define the tone of the game. Now that I think about it, that's pretty funny for characters that literally have two stats in my game (loyalty and connection). I don't even give them specifically statted negotiate/charisma, I just eyeball it with every encounter, if they even end up rolling anything at all.
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Sep 2, 2013 01:14
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The Bone Density Augmentation (Bioware) says that "Your Body attribute is increased by the bone density Rating for the purpose of damage resistance tests." Do you guys read this as being resistance to exclusively physical damage, or also to Biofeedback/Astral damage?
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Sep 2, 2013 02:31
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H posted:The Bone Density Augmentation (Bioware) says that "Your Body attribute is increased by the bone density Rating for the purpose of damage resistance tests." Do you guys read this as being resistance to exclusively physical damage, or also to Biofeedback/Astral damage? Going strictly by hat text it reads as if it applies to everything, although I would rule that it only applies to physical damage. How is having denser bones going to help you resist something attacking your aura/astral self directly?
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Sep 2, 2013 02:38
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WarLocke posted:Going strictly by hat text it reads as if it applies to everything, although I would rule that it only applies to physical damage. How is having denser bones going to help you resist something attacking your aura/astral self directly? By making you more confident that you won't die! This is a joke, it really should be house ruled.
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Sep 2, 2013 03:37
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WarLocke posted:Going strictly by hat text it reads as if it applies to everything, although I would rule that it only applies to physical damage. How is having denser bones going to help you resist something attacking your aura/astral self directly? Doesn't having 'ware automatically make you more resistant to magic?
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Sep 2, 2013 03:41
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Doc Dee posted:Doesn't having 'ware automatically make you more resistant to magic? Not really, no. It makes you have less Essence, which can make some spells harder to work on you, but those are almost all beneficial spells. Edit because there's like ONE spell that is harmful that has the Essence keyword in 5e core. Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 03:48
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I don't mind either way. poo poo's abstract to begin with after all. Denser bones makes your body more built up; it can soak damage better because it's just plain tougher. I mean when you get down to it using Body to absorb Biofeedback/Astral damage is already in the realm of "I'M TOO SWOLE TO TAKE DAMAGE."
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Sep 2, 2013 04:07
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I was reading through the magic chapter when looking at Doc Dee's character and I realized something. I've no idea what the tradition elements actually do. Like for Hermetics Combat is Fire. Does that mean they have to use fire mage for combat, or is it a bonus, or is it merely flavor? I looked in a few areas that I thought it might be in, but tiredness coupled with frustration over the drunken editor for this thing means I cannot find an answer.
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Sep 2, 2013 05:37
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ProfessorCirno posted:I don't mind either way. poo poo's abstract to begin with after all. Denser bones makes your body more built up; it can soak damage better because it's just plain tougher. I would houserule it so you use whatever stat you use in addition to Willpower to resist drain. Adepts are too swole to take damage. Shamans have such a strong force of personality it's hard to overcome their soul in order to damage them. When someone tries to damage a hermetic mage in the Astral, they turn into this guy, because gently caress your real body taking damage from the Astral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw9bny88OuY
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Sep 2, 2013 05:44
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Explorator_Vimes posted:I was reading through the magic chapter when looking at Doc Dee's character and I realized something. I've no idea what the tradition elements actually do. Like for Hermetics Combat is Fire. Does that mean they have to use fire mage for combat, or is it a bonus, or is it merely flavor? I looked in a few areas that I thought it might be in, but tiredness coupled with frustration over the drunken editor for this thing means I cannot find an answer. Traditions determine what attributes you use to soak drain. Flavor wise, a hermetic mage is more a scholar while a shaman isn't. Like you said, it also determines what spirits you summon for specific tasks, the advantage to summoning a spirit of fire over a spirit of air for combat is that their attributes, powers and bonus powers should be more tailored to combat, instead of detection. Though depending on what you are going against and the situation, a spirit of air may be better than a spirit of fire. ltr fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 06:22
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Explorator_Vimes posted:I was reading through the magic chapter when looking at Doc Dee's character and I realized something. I've no idea what the tradition elements actually do. Like for Hermetics Combat is Fire. Does that mean they have to use fire mage for combat, or is it a bonus, or is it merely flavor? I looked in a few areas that I thought it might be in, but tiredness coupled with frustration over the drunken editor for this thing means I cannot find an answer. That might also just be an old rear end holdover from when Aspected mages could pick an "element" and get everything associated with it. So, like your example, they could be a hermetic fire mage and only have combat spells to cast and fire elementals to summon. Personally, I'd still allow that in a heartbeat in my game. Aspected Magicians are pretty terrible game-wise in a purely number puppet sense, but I think people are pretty much welcome to hamstring yourself however you'd like if it makes an interesting character (assuming it's not something willfully awful that will sandbag the group for no reason, like a murder troll with 1 charisma and no etiquette). MilkmanLuke fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 06:25
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MilkmanLuke posted:That might also just be an old rear end holdover from when Aspected mages could pick an "element" and get everything associated with it. So, like your example, they could be a hermetic fire mage and only have combat spells to cast and fire elementals to summon. Alright, so fluff definitely, potential holdover most likely. Thanks, I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what in there besides the Drain roll was important. I made the silly mistake that because Drain was there the rest was pretty important to mechanically being a Hermetic or Shamanic mage. I do like that potential for Aspected Mages, I've always liked the concept in other systems that did it, like Dresden Fate, but they do seem to get dunked on pretty hard in SR.
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Sep 2, 2013 06:31
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ltr posted:Traditions determine what attributes you use to soak drain. Flavor wise, a hermetic mage is more a scholar while a shaman isn't. Like you said, it also determines what spirits you summon for specific tasks, the advantage to summoning a spirit of fire over a spirit of air for combat is that their attributes, powers and bonus powers should be more tailored to combat, instead of detection. Though depending on what you are going against and the situation, a spirit of air may be better than a spirit of fire. What was the reason for moving away from mechanical differences in spirit summoning? I felt like the old system (Shamen could conjure up spirits on the fly for a small number of tasks, but Mages would spend time conjuring/binding elementals that had no task limit, but would try to break free of control periodically) was pretty neat for differentiating the traditions.
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Sep 2, 2013 06:34
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If I had to guess it was basically for consolidation and ease of remembrance.
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Sep 2, 2013 07:44
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EDIT: nevermind
Doc Dee fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 02:13
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Combat axes are fun. Combat axes being wielded by an adept with strength 6 blades 6 with a specialization in axes is hilarious (he hides it in a guitar case he carries everywhere). Forgetting all of that because you're helping your street sammie buddy remove the local go-gang with the assault rifles he mounted on his scooter is the most fun I've had with P&P RPGs in a while. I love this game. But yeah, you are a drat fool if you don't mount at least one gun on your vehicle. Body contributing to recoil comp means you have no excuse to not fire full auto all day every day.
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Sep 3, 2013 11:38
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paragon1 posted:Combat axes are fun. Combat axes being wielded by an adept with strength 6 blades 6 with a specialization in axes is hilarious (he hides it in a guitar case he carries everywhere). Forgetting all of that because you're helping your street sammie buddy remove the local go-gang with the assault rifles he mounted on his scooter is the most fun I've had with P&P RPGs in a while. Katanas are also hilarious. Because they are a pointed sword, they can go through a barrier with Armor less than their combined Damage+Armor Piercing value. This means if your troll gets up to Strength 11, they can go around Iaijutsu Striking people through brick walls. If they ever hit the theoretical maximum of 15 Strength, they can do it through ten centimeters of concrete. A troll already has the thermal vision to see the warm bodies on the other side of the wall. The barrier rules also provide what might be the only use for APDS Ammo, as bullets also use the rules for penetrating weapons, so they add their Damage+Armor Piercing value together to determine what barriers they can pierce. An Ares Desert Strike, available at the start of the game, will let you trivially snipe people through a brick wall if you have some way of seeing them on the other side. With APDS Ammo, you can hit them through 10cm of concrete. Security doors, kevlar wallboard, and densiplast can all be shot directly through by an Ares Predator using APDS ammunition. This is just what you can do all the time, because net hits add to the modified damage value used in the calculation. A Ranger Arms SM-5 with APDS ammo only needs two net hits to shoot through reinforced concrete. If you Edge the roll and manage to get 10 net hits, you can shoot someone inside a blast bunker with only 1 damage subtracted from the final result, who would be subject to a 23P -9 AP attack, and the defender is by definition unaware. APDS ammo is not a trap option because it lets you kill people inside hardened bunkers with a single bullet. Edit: I feel the need to point out that if your attacker as a weapon that can pierce your cover, all cover mitigates damage equally. For example, if you are being shot at by a Shadowrunner wielding an Ares Predator with APDS ammo, it does not matter whether you are behind armored glass or regular glass. They both provide the same damage mitigation: One damage. If you have an Ares Desert Strike with APDS ammo, shooting through a metal beam is no more of a problem than shooting through a pane of glass. However, it reads like every individual barrier blocks the projectile separately, so many weak barriers dampen the projectile more than a single massive barrier. While you can snipe someone inside a hardened bunker, the appropriate number of panes of glass, sheets of drywall, or wooden panels can stop any attack. For example, the bullet which can hit the man inside the hardened bunker will not make it through twenty-five wooden panels. MiltonSlavemasta fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 23:36
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paragon1 posted:Combat axes are fun. Combat axes being wielded by an adept with strength 6 blades 6 with a specialization in axes is hilarious (he hides it in a guitar case he carries everywhere). Forgetting all of that because you're helping your street sammie buddy remove the local go-gang with the assault rifles he mounted on his scooter is the most fun I've had with P&P RPGs in a while. Sounds awesome But don't you have to take Gunnery for firing mounted weapons? I don't want to take Gunnery on every character, honestly.[/size] MiltonSlavemasta posted:The barrier rules also provide what might be the only use for APDS Ammo, as bullets also use the rules for penetrating weapons, so they add their Damage+Armor Piercing value together to determine what barriers they can pierce. An Ares Desert Strike, available at the start of the game, will let you trivially snipe people through a brick wall if you have some way of seeing them on the other side. With APDS Ammo, you can hit them through 10cm of concrete. Security doors, kevlar wallboard, and densiplast can all be shot directly through by an Ares Predator using APDS ammunition.  Maybe it's time to start taking Gunnery on every character and giving them a vehicle big enough to mount a Desert Strike (would that be considered to take one mount or two)? You know, not something you'd use all the time, but for special situations.
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Sep 4, 2013 00:55
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Doc Dee posted:Sounds awesome Sounds like a good area of last resort for a rigger.
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Sep 4, 2013 01:19
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Doc Dee posted:Maybe it's time to start taking Gunnery on every character and giving them a vehicle big enough to mount a Desert Strike (would that be considered to take one mount or two)? You know, not something you'd use all the time, but for special situations. A Desert Strike is a Sniper Rifle. It uses Longarms. Oddly enough, Sniper Rifles are the best for penetrating barriers. Heavy Weapons (Vehicle-Mounted Machine Guns, Assault Cannons, Rocket Launchers) are better for destroying a barrier utterly, but if you want to kill someone on the other side of it right now, nothing beats a Sniper Rifle with armor-piercing ammo. Also, if your GM decides to rule that the monowhip is a penetrating weapon, it will whip right through anything less than reinforced concrete, and if you're good enough to use it without killing yourself, it's good enough to whip through anything but a hardened bunker. MiltonSlavemasta fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 01:29
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:However, it reads like every individual barrier blocks the projectile separately, so many weak barriers dampen the projectile more than a single massive barrier. While you can snipe someone inside a hardened bunker, the appropriate number of panes of glass, sheets of drywall, or wooden panels can stop any attack. For example, the bullet which can hit the man inside the hardened bunker will not make it through twenty-five wooden panels. So, in the future, riot shields will be made out of reams of paper.
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Sep 4, 2013 01:33
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:However, it reads like every individual barrier blocks the projectile separately, so many weak barriers dampen the projectile more than a single massive barrier I wonder making it dome shape in front of me counts as two barrier since it's going through it twice.
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Sep 4, 2013 03:04
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Nyaa posted:Ah, so multi-cast two/three F1 physical barrier is better than one F5 barrier? It depends. If you are facing off against most ordinary goons, a F7-F8 barrier will deflect all their bullets harmlessly without taking damage. However, if you are trying to protect someone from an elite sniper, 14 F1 barriers would significantly improve their chances of survival, whereas one F14 Barrier would barely do anything.
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Sep 4, 2013 04:02
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Trasson posted:So, in the future, riot shields will be made out of reams of paper. Reams of paper are super good at stopping bullets, though.
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Sep 4, 2013 04:12
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Mystic Mongol posted:Reams of paper are super good at stopping bullets, though. If it's good enough for Teddy Roosevelt, it's good enough for me. On a completely unrelated note, my group wants to do a game in Chicago. Is there anything for deckers to do there? Isn't the Matrix still down? I suppose corporate headquarters would have some stuff for hacking, but deckers would still probably be at a huge disadvantage. Also, how does it treat people with expensive technological needs, like street sams and, again, deckers? Basically, I'm asking for advice.
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Sep 4, 2013 14:49
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Check out Feral Cities, it might have more info. That said from what I remember in most wild cities there's still some connectivity (if nothing else than from satlinks) and there'd almost certainly be street docs to hock ware.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:45
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The newest season of shadow run missions takes place there.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:04
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Doc Dee posted:Sounds awesome Remember that full auto gives the other guy -9 to dodge. Which often means you just need to assign one hit to each target. I threw like 5 dice and killed three guys (who were already wounded, but still). I suffered no recoil penalties thanks to the body of a scooter and having 6 strength. I'm thinking GMs are going to need to have characters getting searched for contraband a lot more to discourage players carrying around all this powerful illegal gear (like a SuperWarhawk loaded with APDS ammo).
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Sep 4, 2013 19:41
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paragon1 posted:Remember that full auto gives the other guy -9 to dodge. Which often means you just need to assign one hit to each target. I threw like 5 dice and killed three guys (who were already wounded, but still). I suffered no recoil penalties thanks to the body of a scooter and having 6 strength. I'm thinking GMs are going to need to have characters getting searched for contraband a lot more to discourage players carrying around all this powerful illegal gear (like a SuperWarhawk loaded with APDS ammo). The legal status of ammunition is rarely relevant. There are very few places that would let you have a gun but would flip out if your gun was loaded with explosive or APDS rounds. A chem sniffer, a cyberware scanner, or a MAD is one thing, but inspecting the bullets in every magazine carried by someone with a license to carry a gun to determine what type they are is a huge hassle for not much gain. Only a really anal and assholish police officer would do that, or some place where everyone there really cares that your gun is loaded with regular rounds/not armor piercing, like an undersea lab. Drawing attention to the legal status of APDS/explosive rounds is likely to just result in PCs realizing that stick-n-shock are really good.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:51
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ADPS and 'splodey rounds are supposed to be more expensive and harder to get in bulk (need Connections) than inferior normal bullets. That's plenty of drawback. They're High Lifestyle for guns.pospysyl posted:Is there anything for deckers to do there? Isn't the Matrix still down? I suppose corporate headquarters would have some stuff for hacking, but deckers would still probably be at a huge disadvantage. Also, how does it treat people with expensive technological needs, like street sams and, again, deckers? Basically, I'm asking for advice. Now that everything is wireless, and everybody's shirt is its own matrix wi-fi hot-spot, a decker can hack into anybody's smartgun and eject its clip by remote. Or their car. But they're still almost useless against spirits and all-natural fellas. If you're going to be in Chicago you should probably settle for a mediocre deck and have a non-virtual plan B of some kind.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:00
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Okay, so I'm grinding up a character for the Korean Shadowrun game. Going to be some kind of Chinese pirate witch, I think, possibly less silly than the Manchurian Anyway, I was thinking my gimmick might be the enchanted bullets thing, I'm busy reading back in the thread to see how bad it was. I'm not entirely sure about my weapon choice, thought. Loading them into a Sniper Rifle is probably too out there and shotguns are too hard to hide. Archery...requires too much strength. Pretty sure I'm going to go with Pistols, despite the lack of an Eichiro Hatamoto II. The smart choice is probably the Ares Lightfire 75, the crazy action choice is probably a pair of Ruger Super Warhawks, but I'm leaning towards having a bunch of Walther Palm Pistols. Accuracy's really low, but I do like the idea of having a bunch of enchanted holdout pistols; is there a way to make it work? Improve Accuracy doesn't seem to be a thing yet, I guess, but I could probably Hush the pistols themselves and and put whatever spells on the bullets. Damage/Elemental bullets are obvious, but what other enchantments could be good? Sheet of Ice? Bugs? Barrier? Heal? Is it possible to be an Aspected Mystic Adept?
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Sep 5, 2013 00:39
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Rockopolis posted:Okay, so I'm grinding up a character for the Korean Shadowrun game. Going to be some kind of Chinese pirate witch, I think, possibly less silly than the Manchurian Didn't that whole conversation come down to enchanted bullets not being possible? The rifling on the barrel will mess up whatever you inscribe on the bullets, I would imagine.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:10
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I thought I remembered something like that. What about a smoothbore? The shotguns, probably a Roomsweeper, and...uh, I don't even know if rifling something as short as the Palm Pistol even makes sense. And now I'm wondering about enchanting the gel in Gel Rounds with potions...which don't actually seem to get any detail. Huh. Well, I'll have to see what the GM says, I guess I can always switch to Archery or something similarly primitive.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:54
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Rockopolis posted:I thought I remembered something like that. Basically the problem is this: if anyone allows you to enchant projectiles just do it, it is flat better than anything else in the game. If you deal damage to somebody and get to use the spell it will just one shot pretty much anything, armor be damned. So if we go down this line of thought: All bullets in a clip must be the same, enchanted or not. So you have to make a few at least war hawk holding 6 is great here. You must deal a single point of damage for a touch spell to go off, the reasoning being you use the touch trigger and actual damage implies the bullet touched flesh. And you need to figure out if touching your bullet sets the spell off on you. My favorite idea is a narcojet heavy bolt with a spell attached, because why the gently caress not go all the way overkill.
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Sep 5, 2013 04:40
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Rockopolis posted:I thought I remembered something like that. I think the sanest way to do enchanted ammunition would be placing the alchemy on throwing weapons, like knives or shuriken. This has the added bonus of giving you the ability to carve stuff like Trid Phantasm or Chaotic World on rocks or ball barrings and accurately hurl them into enemy groups.
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Sep 5, 2013 05:02
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Basically guns are already the best weapons in the game, so they don't really need anything more to boost them. I'm ok with arrows and crossbow bolts to some degree because a) they're nowhere near as good as guns, and b) I personally find it cooler, which admittingly isn't a game-wide thing but too bad.
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Sep 5, 2013 05:07
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So, this is probably an argument to have with your GM, but what do you mean by "touch" activated? Like, bare-flesh? Bare-flesh-or-implant-paid-for-with-essence? Through clothing? Through rubber gloves? Through a haz-mat suit? You'd better be using tongs? Several of these interpretations are going to preclude magical arrows or thrown weapons having a "touch" activation, because you're going to be man-handling the heck out of them before they get jabbed into an enemy. On the other hand, if you make them Command triggered, this negates the "economy of action" concern, because you're going to have to spend an action to jab the guy, and then a separate Simple Action to zap him.
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Sep 5, 2013 05:15
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Gravity Pike posted:So, this is probably an argument to have with your GM, but what do you mean by "touch" activated? Like, bare-flesh? Bare-flesh-or-implant-paid-for-with-essence? Through clothing? Through rubber gloves? Through a haz-mat suit? You'd better be using tongs? Several of these interpretations are going to preclude magical arrows or thrown weapons having a "touch" activation [...] For normal spells, 'touch' explicitly works through clothing and heavy armor. Applying that rule to touch triggers would make them exclusively for making traps. That's probably the best way to eliminate magic bullets with minimal collateral damage, although it also takes out magic arrows and throwing daggers.
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Sep 5, 2013 06:21
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:However, it reads like every individual barrier blocks the projectile separately, so many weak barriers dampen the projectile more than a single massive barrier. While you can snipe someone inside a hardened bunker, the appropriate number of panes of glass, sheets of drywall, or wooden panels can stop any attack. For example, the bullet which can hit the man inside the hardened bunker will not make it through twenty-five wooden panels. So, ablative armor, then?
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Sep 5, 2013 09:56
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Most powerful weapon in the game, but on the other hand, the user is an incompetent player  who is usually a non combat kind of person. I didn't think of throwing weapons, why do I always forget they exist? Like knives or... Enchanted Grenades  Levitate to get them to follow their targets! Glue, to make them sticky! Hush, to make silent but deadly grenades! Heal, for irony! Ice Sheet, to increase scatter! Physical Barrier, to make them into improvised shaped charges that oneshot anything they touch! Swarm on Pepper Punch, to make BEE BOMBS!Throwing weapons seem a bit short ranged, though, anything to counteract that? Mystic Throwing Adept doesn't seem to be an option yet, so no paintbrushes of Death Touch, so should I look into enchanting up some Increase Str/Agi items? Also, were there rules for doing the Andy Lau thing and just pulling the pin on a grenade and then throwing a backpack full of grenades at someone, then laughing like a jackass while they dig through the bag? Just adding damage and blast and AP for each one, right? Edit: Enchant a sutra or talisman tied to the business end? Bells might be a cool touch, especially with Ice Sheet 
Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 18:10
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