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No, I seriously like my "gently caress you" knife. I'd say it even fits within the spirit of the rules; magical healing fucks up your body to the point where neither magic nor medicine are going to be much help in the future. Maybe your DM house-rules in something to let your target resist it, at which point L1 isn't going to be good enough, and you avoid the cheese of "incredibly inexpensive spell invariably wrecks their day." Maybe it's a different spell, and you reserve a healknife for torture. Still plenty useful. And there are plenty of cases where I want to hurt someone and prevent them from getting better, but not just kill them. Intimidation is a legitimate business strategy, and nothing is going to make your corporate rivals feel vulnerable like getting hit and not being able to throw money at the problem to make it go away. Maybe I just need to keep them out of the office; there is a vote coming up, and if they're killed, the next guy just steps up and votes in lock-step. However, if he's absent, there can be no quarum, and the vote doesn't take place.
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Sep 6, 2013 23:06
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Rockopolis posted:Halfway through chargen. You can have a weapon focus whip or a weapon focus TrollTuff Heavy Gauge Fighin' Chain, so I don't see any reason why not. Basically, you'd have a reach 2 knife that instantly says to everyone that 1)I am a powerful adept that you need to shoot in the face or 2)I am a crazy person that has seen too many kung fu movies. Or, most likely, both. As for enchanting Foci, I'd say no on account of it being crammed full of delicately balanced magic already. Basically, a focus is already enchanted on a much more fundamental level. I don't think there are any specific rules for it, though, so that's probably one of many things that comes down to GM fiat.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:32
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MilkmanLuke posted:As for enchanting Foci, I'd say no on account of it being crammed full of delicately balanced magic already. Basically, a focus is already enchanted on a much more fundamental level. I don't think there are any specific rules for it, though, so that's probably one of many things that comes down to GM fiat. The rules for enchanting say you cannot enchant anything which already has "an aura." I think a focus might qualify, since it would contain an astral construct.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:39
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Okay, here's the more finished version, I had a different version planned, but I'm not really feeling great right now and can't write it down. Okay, here's my character, cutting it real close. I'm going to add in the backstory in a second. Hope I didn't miss anything. pre:"Knives" Lau" Elf A washed up pirate seeking fame and fortune in the shadows. A Attributes 24 B Mystic Adept 4 Magic 7 Spells C Elf (3) D Nuyen 50000 E Skills 18 BOD 4 AGI 7 REA 4 STR 4 WIL 5 LOG 5 INT 3 CHA 3 EDG 2 MAG 6 Qualities Ambidextrous Catlike (+2 Sneaking) Mentor Spirit (Fire Bringer) (+2 Dice to Alchemy skill tests, +2 to Manipulation, Cannot refuse a sincere request for help Cha+Will(3)) Natural Athlete (+2 Gymnastics&Running) Bad Rep (appropriate to a pirate nicknamed Knives) Distinctive Style (pirate, Chinese coin jewelry) Incompetent (Firearms) Spirit Bane (Water) Contacts 9 Madam Wu; Triad Talismonger; (3C/3L) Doc Park; Street Doc; (1C/2L) Skills Alchemy 4 Counterspelling 4 Throwing (knives) 6(8) Sneaking 5 Gymnastics 5 Running 1 Etiquette 1 Knowledge Skills Catonese N Mandarin 5 Korean 4 English 3 Chinese History 1 Magic Theory 1 Triads 1 Spells Knockout Lightning Bolt Heal Improved Invisibility Silence Mana Barrier Physical Barrier Powers Improved Reflexes 1 Improved Ability (Throwing) Gear 50000 Nuyen Squatter Lifestyle 1 500 Enchanting Focus 4 20000 (Knife Money) Qi Focus 2 6000 (Combat Sense) (Lucky coins, worn in hair) Magical Lodge Materials 6 3000 Fake SIN 4 10000 Fake Magic License 4 800 Magic Kit 500 Lined Coat 900+2250 -Chemical Protection 2 -Fire Resistance 2 -Insulation 2 -Nonconductivity 3 Chameleon Suit 1700 Meta Link 100 Gas Mask 200 Gecko Gloves 200 Survival Kit 200 Medkit 6 1500 Medkit Supplies 100 Knives 6 150 Flashbang 6 600 HiEx Grenades 6 600 Thermal Smoke 6 360 Flash Pak 125 Reagents 20 1995 Nuyen leftover 26 Karma -12 Focus -4 Focus -10 2 Power Points "It's not nearly as bad as you've probably heard, and piracy was a good way for a poor girl from Huangpu to get ahead." the coins in her hair caught the light as she took a sip. "Rob from the rich, give some to the poor; it wasn't so bad. But running the shadows is probably going to pay a bit better. Piracy seems to be dying out; I'd like to say China's getting better...it's just getting more violent, ships are rolling with more security. I've seen some strange things out there, probably time for a change." Another dart. "Last ship we took had a mage running security; an actual mage, someone trained.". The next dart was much harder. "Didn't help him. But I think he must have cursed me, or had a friend, or there was something spooky about my share of the loot. So, time to find work on dry land." "Yeah, I know the Triads are always looking for Awakened Talent, it's their thing. But I'd like to stay independent. The Triads...seem aimless, these days; China needs to change." another dart squeezed into a forest over the bullseye. "Besides, Madam Wu scares the hell out of me." Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 03:50
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:The rules for enchanting say you cannot enchant anything which already has "an aura." I think a focus might qualify, since it would contain an astral construct. There you go. A focus is has a powerful aura linked to the owner. If it fell in enemy hands, a wizard could melt the owner's face from halfway across the planet because the focus aura is an active astral link. Of course, there is an easy way to have an enchanted focus weapon. Just have a clip built into the weapon (pommel or something) to hold a disposable enchantment piece. You'd only get one effect at a time and have to touch the enchantment tchotchke to the target, but still good for utility. *edit* I like the pirate character. Nice choice for water bane spirit bane. That's one that you might run into a little less often but, when you do, it's horrible timing in a situation where they can drag you to a watery grave. MilkmanLuke fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 16:41
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Is there a compendium of all the elite military-ish units in Shadowrun that belong to all the different corporations/countries? Here's the partial list I have come up from by perusing Google. Renraku: Red Samurai Ares: Firewatch Souix: Wildcats Salish: Rangers Tir T: Ghosts UCAS: Navy Seals MCT: Zero Zone Horizon: Dawkins Group Aztechnology: Jaguars/Eagle Guard Do the CAS/Amazonia/Japan/Carribean League have any elite units?
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Sep 7, 2013 19:47
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How about a Japanese Shinto Mystic Adept trained to track and combat evil mages, but took it too far and thus has a natural mistrust of anyone Awakened?quote:EDIT: nvm, didn't realize I'd need to set aside 21,000¥ for a weapon focus, or is that only if I don't have the Artificing skill high enough to make it? H posted:Do the CAS/Amazonia/Japan/Carribean League have any elite units? I think the closest thing for JIS would be the Imperial Marines? CAS has the Ferrets (except I don't know if that's just a bit of fluff), and I'm not sure how much of an elite unit Amazonia would need as they're chock full of dragons. Doc Dee fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 20:47
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H posted:Is there a compendium of all the elite military-ish units in Shadowrun that belong to all the different corporations/countries? Here's the partial list I have come up from by perusing Google. As it stands, I think your list is fairly comprehensive. It's been a long time since I read any SR supplements but I don't think Amazonia has an elite squad. In 4th ed they were getting into a war with Aztlan, and there were a lot of mercenary companies working the ground there for both sides. JIS has the Imperial Marines, although I don't recall if there's an elite unit within the IM. I don't remember anything for the CAS or Carib League but I believe both are covered in the 3rd edition supplement "Shadows of North America"--if you can find that second-hand, it might be your best source of info for those two. Former megacorp Cross Applied Technologies had the Seraphim; the corp went under in 2065 during the chaos of the Second Crash but there's no reason you couldn't have a rogue unit that went "freelance," still trying to fulfill the goals of a company that got bought out a decade ago. I don't think the other corps have specialized milspec units, but that's not to say their regular security forces are anything to sneeze at. And Lone Star has both SWAT and Fast Response Teams--they both jockey for position and influence against each other and have pissing matches over who ought to be coming in to save the day.
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Sep 8, 2013 17:15
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Does Wuxing have anything notable?
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Sep 8, 2013 17:20
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Rockopolis posted:Does Wuxing have anything notable? They have their headquarters in Hong Kong and it has such powerful feng shui that you can see into the astral (Just see, not interact. It's like a window.). Basically, they're really good with magic stuff. Besides that, they do finance and are the number one shipping/logistics megacorp.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:11
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Leadership is really one of the most powerful skills in the game. With the Direct action, your Leadership check is effectively a teamwork test for any skill in the game, including ones your character doesn't know at all. For a dedicated Shaman or Face, it isn't at all hard to get to 14 dice, where you're sending an expected 4.5 dice and limit to a check a teammate is making so long as you aren't doing anything else that exact combat turn. I think I might have to make a Yoda-Style mystic adept who runs around using Jedi Mind Trick types of spells and giving cryptic advice to his teammates.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:24
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For the Direct action, I guess you just resist a TN5 since it isn't specifically laid out. I can see how this can be a bit OP outside of combat especially since it takes a Complex Action to use. At that point any time your team mate has to make any sort of test you may as well be Directing them which doesn't seem like how the skill should work ("Come on man, program that software! You can do it!"). In combat it doesn't seem unbalanced since you give up your entire turn to do it, and that's one less attacker on your side. Also, I don't see it listed anywhere in the description that you add anything to Limit, only extra die hits.
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Sep 9, 2013 11:31
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:Leadership is really one of the most powerful skills in the game. With the Direct action, your Leadership check is effectively a teamwork test for any skill in the game, including ones your character doesn't know at all. For a dedicated Shaman or Face, it isn't at all hard to get to 14 dice, where you're sending an expected 4.5 dice and limit to a check a teammate is making so long as you aren't doing anything else that exact combat turn. Whoa, time to make a middle manager of justice shaman mystic adept; trained in the hidden arts of management, they proactively leverage the synergistic core competencies of their team members for greater efficiency! Just need to think of a plausible backstory. And an alias. It also seems like a character that would also want high Edge and/or lots of skills at 1, to represent enough familiarity to wing it and manage. Or does that go back to the whole Untrained vs Incompetent thing? Edit: Well, at Cha 9 Leadership 7, you probably are so good at reading people that you can basically straighten out what it is that they're trying to do. And at 9 Charisma 5 Willpower and Leadership 6 you're probably way too ambitious to be satisfied with plodding up the corporate ladder through junior management. Gotta be proactive! Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 12:19
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Bigass Moth posted:For the Direct action, I guess you just resist a TN5 since it isn't specifically laid out. I can see how this can be a bit OP outside of combat especially since it takes a Complex Action to use. At that point any time your team mate has to make any sort of test you may as well be Directing them which doesn't seem like how the skill should work ("Come on man, program that software! You can do it!"). In combat it doesn't seem unbalanced since you give up your entire turn to do it, and that's one less attacker on your side. Also, I don't see it listed anywhere in the description that you add anything to Limit, only extra die hits. The rules for Teamwork tests state each assistant who scores any hits adds one limit to the roll. It's definitely not unbalanced in combat; During combat, you'd probably want to figure out a way to Con some random guys, security, guys on the street, cops, whatever, into letting you use the Command ability of Leadership. And yeah, it would definitely be silly to allow it all the time, for every test. Probably the way to make it least absurd would be to require some familiarity with the actual skill being used, like the Instruct skill does.
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Sep 9, 2013 13:19
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Hey, here's one; how about enchanted taser darts? Like from a Defiance or Yamaha. I think reloading kills the idea of a Defiance Ex Weapon Focus.
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Sep 9, 2013 14:57
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Rockopolis posted:Hey, here's one; how about enchanted taser darts? Like from a Defiance or Yamaha. Only melee weapons can be foci
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Sep 9, 2013 15:31
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The Defiance has a melee application so you could use it as a foci, but not when using the darts I guess.
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Sep 9, 2013 15:45
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dirtycajun posted:Only melee weapons can be foci Can't you just have it act and shoot normally when used as a gun?
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Sep 9, 2013 16:13
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The reasoning behind that is something to do with your aura? Okay. But taser darts, or even dart gun darts seem like they'd be viable targets for enchantment.
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Sep 9, 2013 18:06
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So I take it kung-fu action Orc is still totally legit?
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Sep 9, 2013 18:30
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If you wanted to do a straight physical (non-astral) kung fu beast, I would do a mixed cyberware/adept orc (other metatypes work) with priorities A/B/C/D/E as Stats/Metatype/Skills/Magic/Resources.For trading in 10 Karma, you could get 20,000 Nuyen worth of cyberware (which happens to be the price of Bone Lacing 1 + 2 Orthoskins) to give you +3 armor, +1 Bod, +1 Unarmed Physical damage. This bypasses the need for killing hands and makes you more defensive. And for another 10K, you can immediatley buy your magic back up to 2. For Adept powers, I would get Combat Sense and Improved Reaction for the full 2 points. You have 24 stat points and enough skill points to max out a few, and even have 5 Karma remaining from the default 25. I have a question: Have any of you actually GM/Played with a group where a Doc-Wagon was called to the scene? How does that even work out?
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Sep 9, 2013 22:26
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H posted:I have a question: Have any of you actually GM/Played with a group where a Doc-Wagon was called to the scene? How does that even work out? Not in 5th (I've yet to have an opportunity to play it), but in 2nd-4th, absolutely. How it plays out depends on the situation. If the customer's biomonitor band breaks or otherwise shows severe stress (such as maxing out their Physical boxes), DocWagon does everything in their power, based on the situation and the customer's package, to retrieve the customer, stabilize them, and get them to a hospital. That's it. It's much like the paramedics - they'll grab you if you just got shot, but they're not going to run into the middle of a firefight to do it. That's why the higher packages include High Threat Response teams, who will. Of course, since they have no dog in the fight except getting their customer out, it's all suppression fire and such. That's pretty much how I play DW summons when I GM. They won't cross into sovereign corporate territory, and they won't interfere with the rightfully contracted law enforcement officers attempting to arrest you. They will, however, attempt to convince whatever parties are detaining you to allow them to provide medical attention and, if necessary, escort you to a hospital along with whatever security or cops you just pissed off. If you have specific scenarios you're curious about, I'd be happy to field them!
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Sep 10, 2013 00:01
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Has anyone gotten their hard copy of the SR 5th book yet?
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Sep 10, 2013 00:28
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H posted:If you wanted to do a straight physical (non-astral) kung fu beast, I would do a mixed cyberware/adept orc (other metatypes work) with priorities A/B/C/D/E as Stats/Metatype/Skills/Magic/Resources.For trading in 10 Karma, you could get 20,000 Nuyen worth of cyberware (which happens to be the price of Bone Lacing 1 + 2 Orthoskins) to give you +3 armor, +1 Bod, +1 Unarmed Physical damage. That's a terrible character decision, by the way. You can get a far, far stronger and more well-rounded character by going straight cyberware.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:36
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In general I'm really not a big fan of mixing adept and 'ware in 5e. I know in 4e it was the way to go if you wanted to make an adept (and frankly you were likely better off just going full 'ware) but in 5e it's pretty strongly penalized. Right now the big mark against kung fu dude is that there's no adept power to increase your hand to hand killing skills, but I'm guessing that will change once the Magic poo poo book drops.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:49
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You mean aside from Critical Strike: Unarmed (explicitly works with weapons, so put on some knucks/enjoy your 9S shock gloves!) and Attribute Boost: Strength?
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Sep 10, 2013 04:50
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Cabbit posted:You mean aside from Critical Strike: Unarmed (explicitly works with weapons, so put on some knucks/enjoy your 9S shock gloves!) and Attribute Boost: Strength? Critical Strike increase by 1 point max. Attribute Boost: Strength lets you make an Attribute Boost + Magic test as a simple action (meaning you can't attack that round) to raise your strength by the number of hits you get, maximum of 4, and caused drain equal to the level of the power. Meanwhile a cybered character can get Str+3 P super easily at chargen (a spur or used bone density augmentation 4) and +3 strength (used muscle augmentation 4) all the time.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:58
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That he can, but he's also probably going to throw Resources A or B out to get it. An Adept can throw Magic D/Metatype C for his stuff, netting A or B skills and attributes. Also, doesn't cyber-enhancement only go to +3 for attributes, as opposed to the +4 Adept powers are capable of (or is that just for cybernetic limbs)? Not to mention, a cybered character also has to deal with all the logistics of being a walking abomination unto God and Dwarf, which is its own set of issues. Metal detectors, say, or a particular aversion to electricity damage and deckers. For, what-- 1 DV? And probably significantly narrower skills to start off with? I think that's an even trade.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:06
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An Adept going magic D is probably just as bad off as a sammy going Resources D, though. I mean, you're assuming the Adept only wants ability boost, killing hands, and critical strike - by that same logic, a sammy only needs one decked out cyberarm with spurs. Which, again, means they don't need to worry about the whole walking abomination thing. Also ability boost is amazing. For firearms adepts. Unarmed and melee both take a complex to attack, which means they can't boost and hit on the same turn. I mean, I feel like you're comparing two dramatically different characters here. One is a rounded out skills guy who also has a small subsection of adept powers to punch, and the other seems to be a fully cybered cyber sammy cyber sam cyber cyber who just happens to have a punch.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:14
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Cabbit posted:That he can, but he's also probably going to throw Resources A or B out to get it. An Adept can throw Magic D/Metatype C for his stuff, netting A or B skills and attributes. Also, doesn't cyber-enhancement only go to +3 for attributes, as opposed to the +4 Adept powers are capable of (or is that just for cybernetic limbs)? You do have to go high resources, but in exchange you don't have to waste a slot on magic. I mean, Resources E is incredibly restrictive - you have 6000 nuyen only. I mean, a rating 2 SIN (the absolute minimum acceptable) is 5k in itself! Cyberware is indeed limited to +3 (with the exception of reaction for reaction enhancers + wired reflexes) but it doesnt really matter because with adept boost you aren't going to reliably hit +4 unless you feel like 6 drain at the end. Bioware is really the way to go, though. For example, here's a sample ware list for a very well rounded character. You need Resources A (total cost is 411250, which still leaves almost 40k for other gear without spending any karma on nuyen) to get it, but it provides massive bonuses across a variety of roles. pre:Used Bone Density Augmentation 4 15000 Used Muscle Augmentation 3 69750 Used Muscle Toner 3 72000 Synaptic Booster 1 95000 Platelet Factories 17000 Mnemonic Enhancer 2 18000 Cerebral Booster 1 31500 Tailored Pheremones 3 93000 If you wanted, you could cut it down to the first three items and add Alpha Wired Reflexes 1 to fit into Resources B, and still be better than the cybered adept. Piell fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 05:26
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ProfessorCirno posted:An Adept going magic D is probably just as bad off as a sammy going Resources D, though. I mean, you're assuming the Adept only wants ability boost, killing hands, and critical strike - by that same logic, a sammy only needs one decked out cyberarm with spurs. Which, again, means they don't need to worry about the whole walking abomination thing. Magic D, Metatype C. As in, a human with 6 Magic and 3 Edge. But, yeah, I guess it's a matter of focus. Edit: Piell posted:Bioware is really the way to go, though. For example, here's a sample ware list for a very well rounded character. You need Resources A (total cost is 411250, which still leaves almost 40k for other gear without spending any karma on nuyen) to get it, but it provides massive bonuses across a variety of roles. Tailored pheromones? Seems like there might be a better strength to play to there instead of grabbing those. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 05:31
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Cabbit posted:Magic D, Metatype C. As in, a human with 6 Magic and 3 Edge. But, yeah, I guess it's a matter of focus. Switch it out for another level of Synaptic boosters if you want, then. Either way, cyberware is going to provide a massively larger set of bonuses than adepts.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:36
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I didn't know you could get used bioware (I assumed there was only one grade of bioware). Can you get alpha/beta bioware as well? Also, is Armor a thing in astral combat? What about reach?
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Sep 10, 2013 07:25
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You can't used cultured bioware, since that stuff is tailored for you specifically, but other than that bioware runs the gamut from used to deltaware.
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Sep 10, 2013 07:28
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I mean, used non-cultured bioware kinda has to exist. Otherwise there'd be no such thing as an organ donor. And organ legging is a pretty strongly established part of the setting.
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Sep 10, 2013 08:08
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ProfessorCirno posted:I mean, used non-cultured bioware kinda has to exist. Otherwise there'd be no such thing as an organ donor. And organ legging is a pretty strongly established part of the setting. Non-cultured bioware is specifically something you can get used (although probably not bone density unless it's maybe some kind of strips that are surgically laid on top of the bones). The bioware is specifically included in the discussion of alpha, beta, delta, used at the beginning of the Augmentation gear section. Plus, like you said, Cirno, it's a Big Thing in the Shadowrun world to cut fancy hearts or kidneys out of people and sell them on the black market. Getting back to the issue of magic vs cyberwear, killing hands an adept punch spirits to death and that has long been its shining feature in my opinion.
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Sep 10, 2013 08:49
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What's wrong with these used bones? They fell off the back of a truck, I'm cutting you a deal here. Do you want bonuses to your punches or not?
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Sep 10, 2013 09:07
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Used doesn't literally have to be used as in you pried it out of a person, it can also just be "this is inferior quality 'ware put in your body by a street doc who sterilizes his tools with Big Bob's Discount Blended Whiskey Product." Used bone lacing is kind of dumb but "this bone lacing is kind of lovely quality but you get what you pay for" isn't, so there you go.
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Sep 10, 2013 09:38
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MilkmanLuke posted:Non-cultured bioware is specifically something you can get used (although probably not bone density unless it's maybe some kind of strips that are surgically laid on top of the bones). The bioware is specifically included in the discussion of alpha, beta, delta, used at the beginning of the Augmentation gear section. Plus, like you said, Cirno, it's a Big Thing in the Shadowrun world to cut fancy hearts or kidneys out of people and sell them on the black market. Y...yes? I was agreeing with you!
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Sep 10, 2013 10:01
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Grinding up the old lacing to reuse, with bits of old bone in it? Now you're making me think of a Giant repo man/organlegger, "Fe fi fo fum I smell the 'ware of an indebted man, be he living or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread!"
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Sep 10, 2013 13:31
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