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jsoh posted:Jon absolutely deserves to die and should. He did. Part of me wanted to see him do what he was trying but it would of screamed plot armor. If he is dead who is going to get wall POV chapters? I'm guessing Melisandre. And as far as plot armor goes. I feel like Bran is the only character in this series who has plot armor. It feels like way too much of the endgame is going to be about him for Martin to kill him off.
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Dec 16, 2013 03:40
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Dany has plot armor. I really can't see GRRM ever offing her, especially not now that he's all caught up in the show fanbase too, which inexplicably adores Caleesy.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:31
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Mike N Eich posted:It's really only your belief in the ability of Good to overcome Evil that the reader believes they have a shot. True, but the whole thing is, if you're going to play the gritty moral relativism card, then it has to be balanced. If 'Good' has to be punished for making mistakes because of its morality, then 'Evil' has to be equally punished for their mistakes and that really hasn't happened. Littlefinger's still in a prime position, as is Varys (though whether he could be considered 'evil' is very arguable). For all we know, Ramsay and Roose in a greater position of power than ever. Joffrey got killed by a Littlefinger power play instead before all his crimes could 'catch up' to him. The only one who's really been destroyed by her mistakes is Cersai, and since that's due to a bunch of lunatic religious zealots that she's handed a bunch of power to, that's just trading in one set of bad circumstances for another. As it is, the series reads as 'Good losers, Evil winners' as the way of things. Now, again, this could be because we still have two books left to-insert that joke again here-and all the mistakes are about to come into play there, but as is, the whole thing comes off as warped cheating. Edit: I suppose Tywin could be said to have destroyed too, as his complete inability to see past first impressions and hypocrisy led to his death. doubly so if he had been poisoned. Still, it's at least a 3 to 1 imbalance.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:39
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Or it could be that those that become obvious targets in the game get shut the gently caress down. Those that buy for one, sell for two, get to enjoy manipulating those that don't. See: Varys, Olenna, Mel to some extent (she's only there for Rallhorr).
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Dec 16, 2013 07:25
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Dany has plot armor. I really can't see GRRM ever offing her, especially not now that he's all caught up in the show fanbase too, which inexplicably adores Caleesy. Same people who are into Katniss Everdeen.
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Dec 16, 2013 07:26
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Cornwind Evil posted:True, but the whole thing is, if you're going to play the gritty moral relativism card, then it has to be balanced. If 'Good' has to be punished for making mistakes because of its morality, then 'Evil' has to be equally punished for their mistakes and that really hasn't happened. Littlefinger's still in a prime position, as is Varys (though whether he could be considered 'evil' is very arguable). For all we know, Ramsay and Roose in a greater position of power than ever. Joffrey got killed by a Littlefinger power play instead before all his crimes could 'catch up' to him. The only one who's really been destroyed by her mistakes is Cersai, and since that's due to a bunch of lunatic religious zealots that she's handed a bunch of power to, that's just trading in one set of bad circumstances for another. As it is, the series reads as 'Good losers, Evil winners' as the way of things. Now, again, this could be because we still have two books left to-insert that joke again here-and all the mistakes are about to come into play there, but as is, the whole thing comes off as warped cheating. Yeah, I feel bad about introduce 'good' and 'evil' into this because its a poor dichotomy for the series. GRRM definitely robs the moments of karmic justice of their catharsis. The Mountain dies, yes, but only after brutally killing Oberyn and damning Tyrion. Same can be said of Tywin and Joffrey. I don't think GRRM is fully nihilistic or, he like, favors evil though. It's just that he doesn't want the reader to savor these moments. Perhaps we shouldn't celebrate the death of a 14 year old boy, no matter how awful he is? I dunno. It's clear that the Bolton's aren't going to last too long, even if whats in the Pink Letter is true. The North wont suffer them for much longer, and it shows that at least some sadistic excesses aren't tolerated.
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Dec 16, 2013 07:32
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He's trying to capture the feel of history where karmic justice isn't really a thing. Consequences are supposed to feel like they're meted out organically and logically from the decisions the characters make and the established facts of the world and how it works. Like in life. Ned, for example, didn't die because the author was punishing him, but because of a split second decision Joffrey made. Same with any other character whose fortune waxes and wanes. People have an imperfect understanding of the consequences their actions have. If I had to identify one unifying theme in ASOIAF it's that hard decisions always have unforeseen consequences. It has absolutely nothing to do with good or evil.
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Dec 16, 2013 08:14
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Dany has plot armor. I really can't see GRRM ever offing her, especially not now that he's all caught up in the show fanbase too, which inexplicably adores Caleesy. Regardless of whether or not you like her character, I don't think it's hard to guess why she's popular on the show - super hot, and very well acted. (also poop fetishists are more widespread than we ever imagined. God help us)
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Dec 16, 2013 08:57
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Majorian posted:super hot, and very well acted. I'll give you super hot, especially with her natural brunette hair, god-drat, but the acting? Not in a million million years. Qalaysee looks like she's getting stuff done and she has dragons, that's why people like her. They don't actually know that she's not getting anything done and her dragons aren't going to do anything that they want her dragons to do. e: Iain Glen's sexy voice helps her side of the show too. That's gone soon. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 09:08
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Bacon Drew posted:He did. Part of me wanted to see him do what he was trying but it would of screamed plot armor. If he is dead who is going to get wall POV chapters? I'm guessing Melisandre. Tyrion definitely has more plot armor than Bran. Terrible at fighting yet leads a sortie out and absolutely annihilates everyone despite a massive handicap (he's not a D&D dwarf after all) and is only nearly stopped by a backstabber. He then succeeds in escaping certain death after a lengthy trial to escape several other bad situations as if he is a leprechaun instead of a dwarf. Also I think Arya does too but that is arguable.
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Dec 16, 2013 13:02
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Majorian posted:Regardless of whether or not you like her character, I don't think it's hard to guess why she's popular on the show - super hot, and very well acted. Not really. I actually don't mind Dany; in the books, she's not a character I really give a poo poo about either way. But man, she's the focal character in the Essos storyline and Emilia Clarke is just completely outshone at nearly every turn by the supporting cast. Nevermind Iain Glen, how about Jason "Monotone Growling" Momoa showing her up? The dude playing Xaro Xoan Daxos was more compelling in their scenes together, and his entire deal is "smug as gently caress". Even her most badass moments come across as someone acting, not someone actually doing these things. She's not a good actress.
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Dec 16, 2013 15:33
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WEARARMYDRAGUNZ *eyebrows flail wildly*
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Dec 16, 2013 15:35
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Majorian posted:Regardless of whether or not you like her character, I don't think it's hard to guess why she's popular on the show - super hot, and very well acted. She is maybe the weakest 'new' actor in the entire series. Everyone around her is a better actor, like other posters have commented. The important child actors are better.
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Dec 16, 2013 18:56
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Jon's death in Dance was because George had him hold firmly onto the idiot ball so that he could have his lame-rear end plot twist.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:04
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Hunky Joe posted:Tyrion definitely has more plot armor than Bran. Terrible at fighting yet leads a sortie out and absolutely annihilates everyone despite a massive handicap (he's not a D&D dwarf after all) and is only nearly stopped by a backstabber. He then succeeds in escaping certain death after a lengthy trial to escape several other bad situations as if he is a leprechaun instead of a dwarf. I saw that as the fact that he's a Lannister, centuries of breeding with the best of the best. HIs brother is the best swordsman alive. Sure, he's just a dwarf, but his armour is the best, he's got a great horse, and apart from being crippled, he has great genes!
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Dec 16, 2013 19:59
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The publisher comes after the gurm with a new keyboard, but gurm battles him off with the help of closer Strong Belwas
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Dec 16, 2013 21:01
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To get back to the "Jon is dumb and deserves to die for breaking oath" thing, didn't he receive a letter from "Ramsay" where "Ramsay" basically said "Yo I'm coming to burn down your castles"? I get not getting involved in the politics of the realm and all, but when the dude says "I'm coming to GET you" it's no longer interfering, it's defending yourself and your mission. also strong belwas is the best character and it is a crime that he is not in the television series
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Dec 16, 2013 21:12
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V. Illych L. posted:To get back to the "Jon is dumb and deserves to die for breaking oath" thing, didn't he receive a letter from "Ramsay" where "Ramsay" basically said "Yo I'm coming to burn down your castles"? I get not getting involved in the politics of the realm and all, but when the dude says "I'm coming to GET you" it's no longer interfering, it's defending yourself and your mission. It's too bad, because HBO could have recreated this wonderful scene from OZ  [url]www.youtube.com/watch?v=V68OUdXSD50[/url]Edit: Un-linked because of rear end. Max fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 21:23
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I laughed my rear end off when Strong Belwas was puking his guts out during the Dragon scene, I didn't get that it was a poisoning, I just thought he got sick from eating too many honeyed locusts. I thought Joffrey ate too fast as well, I'm not good at seeing poisonings  V. Illych L. posted:To get back to the "Jon is dumb and deserves to die for breaking oath" thing, didn't he receive a letter from "Ramsay" where "Ramsay" basically said "Yo I'm coming to burn down your castles"? I get not getting involved in the politics of the realm and all, but when the dude says "I'm coming to GET you" it's no longer interfering, it's defending yourself and your mission. I have to say this letter was really great, I had goosebumps reading it. Shame about what followed, I didn't understand why the giant killed King's Mountain though. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 21:54
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D+D clearly do not know the books if they thought omitting Strong Belwas making GBS threads in the middle of a battlefield after he just murdered a dude was a good idea. It's easily in the top 2 poo poo related moments in ASOIAF. (#1 poo poo moment is the entire series as premise)
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Dec 16, 2013 22:02
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This thread made me realize how much poop related stuff there is in those books  Has GRRM ever said why? Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 22:08
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Aurain posted:D+D clearly do not know the books if they thought omitting Strong Belwas making GBS threads in the middle of a battlefield after he just murdered a dude was a good idea. Honestly, with everything else they include or invent for the show, I'm surprised it wasn't included.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:08
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Kurtofan posted:This thread made me realize how much poop related stuff there is in those books Everybody poops.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:11
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In It For The Tank posted:Everybody poops. Valar Shitaeris. All men must poop.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:16
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I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume it's because GRRM has a Fetlife account. Being a horse's full toilet (everything about it)
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Dec 16, 2013 22:17
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Aurain posted:D+D clearly do not know the books if they thought omitting Strong Belwas making GBS threads in the middle of a battlefield after he just murdered a dude was a good idea. Now we can all look forward to Barristan the Bold taking off his trousers and laying a big fat steaming one after slaying Meereen's champion
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Dec 17, 2013 00:25
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Max posted:It's too bad, because HBO could have recreated this wonderful scene from OZ I'm not at work or anything but I have embedded videos and the video preview is a giant lovely rear end in my face so editing that into a hyperlink is probably best.
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Dec 17, 2013 00:29
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I forget, which city does Belwas poo poo at? Are we already past that part in the show? I just want to hold on to hope that they just give that scene to another character, like Daario or Jorah because that's probably the most glaring omission of the entire series if they leave that out.
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Dec 17, 2013 00:43
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Bulletproof Tiger posted:I forget, which city does Belwas poo poo at? Are we already past that part in the show? I just want to hold on to hope that they just give that scene to another character, like Daario or Jorah because that's probably the most glaring omission of the entire series if they leave that out. Mereen. Their champion seems to be some sort of actual knight with a super long lance on a horse.... uhhh or maybe it's the city before mereen. Disregard me.
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Dec 17, 2013 00:51
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Not really. I actually don't mind Dany; in the books, she's not a character I really give a poo poo about either way. But man, she's the focal character in the Essos storyline and Emilia Clarke is just completely outshone at nearly every turn by the supporting cast. Nevermind Iain Glen, how about Jason "Monotone Growling" Momoa showing her up? The dude playing Xaro Xoan Daxos was more compelling in their scenes together, and his entire deal is "smug as gently caress". Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. I think she's gotten pretty convincing, especially in season 3. You're right that she gets outshone regularly in season 1, but that's because she's supposed to be outshone. She's a 15-year old girl who's been thrust into being the consort of a nomadic barbarian warlord - she's supposed to be way in over her head. The dumbness of the "WARE ARR MUH DRAGUNZ?!" subplot aside, I think she's been pretty drat authentic in turning into a strong leader. If there's any problem with her storyline on the show, it's with the writing, not the acting.
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Dec 17, 2013 01:16
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I like Emilia Clarke just fine too. Don't really see all this bad acting everyone is talking about. e: this is her first major role in anything, she was cast right out of drama school if I remember correctly.
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Dec 17, 2013 01:26
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Yeah, if you want terrible Emilia Clarke acting, the (TV) movie you need to watch is Triassic Attack. That American accent.
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Dec 17, 2013 01:35
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Sexgun Rasputin posted:I'm not at work or anything but I have embedded videos and the video preview is a giant lovely rear end in my face so editing that into a hyperlink is probably best. Huh, I never encountered the embedded videos thing, but OK. Badly formatted now, but it's better than the alternative. Edit: Well I learned about a feature I would never, ever turn on. Max fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 01:41
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Kurtofan posted:I laughed my rear end off when Strong Belwas was puking his guts out during the Dragon scene, I didn't get that it was a poisoning, I just thought he got sick from eating too many honeyed locusts. The giant killed that dude because Wun Wun was tasked with guarding Dalla I think I cant keep names straight, and Jon said something sometime about wilding marriages being the dude sneaking up on the lady and kidnapping her. He was trying to steal himself a wife and Wun Wun rules too hard to get a wife stolen from him.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:54
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They killed Wun Wun! You bastards!
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Dec 17, 2013 05:00
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Mike N Eich posted:Now we can all look forward to Barristan the Bold taking off his trousers and laying a big fat steaming one after slaying Meereen's champion As if they'd ever actually have Barristan fight. It'll be New Daario instead.
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Dec 17, 2013 05:09
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Majorian posted:If there's a bigger problem with her storyline on the show, it's with the writing/directing, not the acting. Fixed this for ya. Also yup, she's not awful, but she ain't refining her craft.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:22
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jsoh posted:The giant killed that dude because Wun Wun was tasked with guarding Dalla I think I cant keep names straight, and Jon said something sometime about wilding marriages being the dude sneaking up on the lady and kidnapping her. He was trying to steal himself a wife and Wun Wun rules too hard to get a wife stolen from him. That's pretty hilarious, didn't think about that, thanks.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:56
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SaviourX posted:Fixed this for ya. Also yup, she's not awful, but she ain't refining her craft. Maybe she's saving herself for the poo poo berries. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 06:57
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Hogge Wild posted:Maybe she's saving herself for the poo poo berries. Or for fighting Terminators.
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