|
Miyamotos RGB NES posted:Thanks man. Yeah I've done outlets and switches a bunch of times with no problem. That's usually just a case of taking things apart and putting them back the way they were. This was a whole different beast though. Don't count us out yet. It looks like you got 2 circuits in that one box with a shared neutral, and somewhere down the line you got a loose neutral. What's the longest extension cord you got? Do you have one long enough to reach another, definitely-separate circuit? Also, what all is on this problem circuit? How many boxes?
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2014 02:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 20:01 |
|
|
kid sinister posted:Don't count us out yet. It looks like you got 2 circuits in that one box with a shared neutral, and somewhere down the line you got a loose neutral. What's the longest extension cord you got? Do you have one long enough to reach another, definitely-separate circuit? Also, what all is on this problem circuit? How many boxes? I have extension cords for days, that's not an issue. What do you need me to try with that? This problem circuit isn't really a problem (just the mess in the photos is the issue). If I turn off the breaker that handles what you see in the photos, it also turns off my washer/dryer in the basement.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2014 03:55
|
|
|
Motronic posted:It's called a "gimbal" and yes, you can absolutely get them as LED retrofits that are gimbals. You'll be removing all of the original gimbal stuff and replacing it with the LED retrofit, and may need to directly wire the retrofit rather than using the supplied bulb-type fitting. It really depends on what your particular can looks like inside. Well, I ended up deciding to use them in my kitchen instead as we had two straight floodlight cans in there. But there is no bit of a gap between the trim and the ceiling. It looks like the can has some adjustment built in but not enough, it is probably a 1/8" gap. What could I use to seal the gap?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2014 05:10
|
|
|
Rubiks Pubes posted:Well, I ended up deciding to use them in my kitchen instead as we had two straight floodlight cans in there. But there is no bit of a gap between the trim and the ceiling. It looks like the can has some adjustment built in but not enough, it is probably a 1/8" gap. What could I use to seal the gap? Help me understand how/why there is a gap? The LED retrofit kits I'm most familiar with are friction fit, so unless your can depth is too low you should be fine. And if your can depth is too low and it's a standard-ish can like a Halo you should be able to move the backplate (what the incandescent bulb used to be screwed to) up a bit. It's adjustable for various bulb/trim ring combinations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
Right- it is a Halo can and while there is some adjustment it doesn't seem the back plate can be moved any higher than it is. So when the retrofit is screwed in to the socket in the can, the trim etc is all hanging down slightly rather than fitting tight against the ceiling.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Rubiks Pubes posted:Right- it is a Halo can and while there is some adjustment it doesn't seem the back plate can be moved any higher than it is. So when the retrofit is screwed in to the socket in the can, the trim etc is all hanging down slightly rather than fitting tight against the ceiling. So what style retro is this? The ones I'm picturing are like this: http://www.lightingnewyork.com/product/design-fountain-led-recessed-recessed-led4742-wh.html?gclid=CIuppb7W3bsCFQPNOgodaQMAGg Are you saying yours is retained by screwing the entire assembly into the socket?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Motronic posted:So what style retro is this? The ones I'm picturing are like this: http://www.lightingnewyork.com/product/design-fountain-led-recessed-recessed-led4742-wh.html?gclid=CIuppb7W3bsCFQPNOgodaQMAGg Are you saying yours is retained by screwing the entire assembly into the socket? This is what I have http://m.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202240932/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 00:26
|
|
|
Are you sure there's no adjustment? In most of the cans I've seen, there's a wing nut that secures the socket assembly to the can itself. You may need to unscrew the wing nut significantly to move the socket more than a fraction of an inch, just don't unscrew it completely. That bulb is about the same depth as any other PAR 30 bulb, and Halo cans tend to be pretty adjustable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 10:42
|
|
|
I have those exact lights with probably a similar halo can from Home Depot. Three of the cans had a slight manufacturing defect that made adjustments an absolute bitch. Do you know what model halo can you have?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
Miyamotos RGB NES posted:I have extension cords for days, that's not an issue. What do you need me to try with that? I was asking about extension cords because you can use them to test hots on problem circuits that have loose neutrals. You need a long cord since circuits can be quite large. If you plug one end of the cord into a circuit with a known working neutral, then you can use the wider slot on the other end of the cord to test with. Your house actually has a pair of 120V lines going into it. Either line feeds its own busbar in your panel. One way electricians saved money on wire is to run 2 circuits along one cable (one on black, one on red) from the panel box to some box where those 2 circuits run to their respective locations. Either hot wire in that cable is attached to a breaker on either busbar and they share the neutral wire in that cable. Red wires aren't always used to run a second, permanent hot. They can also be used for certain switch situations like 3 and 4-way switches, switch loops and ceiling fans with the fan and light on separate switches. In all those situations, the red wire isn't powered all the time. However, since you have a red wire going to the hot lug on that duplex, I'm thinking that it is being used all the time. That's why I'm asking you to test it out with that extension cord. Plug that cord into an outlet on a different circuit, preferably one that's almost definitely separate like in the kitchen. Turn off the circuit to that box, stick one probe of your multimeter into the neutral slot on your cord and touch the other probe to every separate hot wire in that box. Is anything still live?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2014 19:42
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:Are you sure there's no adjustment? In most of the cans I've seen, there's a wing nut that secures the socket assembly to the can itself. You may need to unscrew the wing nut significantly to move the socket more than a fraction of an inch, just don't unscrew it completely. They do have an adjustment (which I thought I posted about but maybe not) and they are adjusted as high up as they can go. I ended up returning the fixtures - one of them was not working anyway. I will probably just get some LED Floodlight bulbs to go in the existing fixtures and be done with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2014 15:59
|
|
|
When running low voltage data and video cables in a suspended ceiling, is just resting them in J hooks along walls to code or do they have to be zip tied or otherwise fastened to the hooks?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
Rubiks Pubes posted:This is what I have i know you already returned them but with that style of retrofit kit you're supposed to remove the sliding bracket inside the can all together. the screw shell pops off of it and drops down then you screw in the LED fixture and just push the whole thing up. if you have "shallow" can installed (6" tall vs the..7.5" or whatever they are) that particular retrofit kit still won't work because it's too tall but if you really liked those it might be worth popping down one of the adjustable brackets and measuring from the very top of the can to where it sits flush with the sheet rock to be sure. also most halo cans that i've come across have two little feet looking tab things about an inch up on the inside (used to hold up certain styles of trim), did you try bending those upward and out of the way? it's possible part of the new trim is getting caught on those. crocodile fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jan 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2014 08:32
|
|
|
GWBBQ posted:When running low voltage data and video cables in a suspended ceiling, is just resting them in J hooks along walls to code or do they have to be zip tied or otherwise fastened to the hooks? Resting in the J-hooks is fine. A lot of people like to zip-tie them down so when you're pulling a cable run in (later) they don't go sliding around. Of course, a lot of people like to zip-tie them to grid wires, sprinkler pipes, lighting whips, conduit drops, and literally anything projecting away from a surface at all, so "common practice" may not always be a good indicator of "right."
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2014 21:42
|
|
|
GWBBQ posted:When running low voltage data and video cables in a suspended ceiling, is just resting them in J hooks along walls to code or do they have to be zip tied or otherwise fastened to the hooks? There aren't really any codes for what you do with that other than being suspended in some manner every 4-5 feet. But you've already gotten a good answer as to what you SHOULD do for sanity.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
Hi guys, I have an AC unit that plugs into the outlet shown below, which I'm looking to run through a thermostat-controlled relay. Is this a 120v/20A outlet, or a 240v outlet? Looking online I've been seeing inconsistent answers. If it matters, I'm located in Southern Ontario. I'm *pretty sure* its 120v/20A but I'd like to get your thoughts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
I'd suggest using a multimeter to measure the voltage. The best you can hope for with an internet answer is what it is supposed to be, a multimeter will tell you what it actually is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 19:36
|
|
|
Guy Axlerod posted:I'd suggest using a multimeter to measure the voltage. Just checked. It's 213v 
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Cyril Sneer posted:Hi guys, I have an AC unit that plugs into the outlet shown below, which I'm looking to run through a thermostat-controlled relay. That's a NEMA 6-20R. Per code it really should have the ground prong at the top, but no one cares enough to actually do that. 240 volts, 20 amps.  edit: the confusion is probably because the NEMA 5-20R is a mirror image of it and is 120V.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 20:20
|
|
|
Is there a reason why the ground is on top? When I was growing up it was always on the bottom at my house.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
kastein posted:That's a NEMA 6-20R. Per code it really should have the ground prong at the top, but no one cares enough to actually do that. Ok. But something funky is happening. Between the ground and either prong I measured 123v, but across the prongs I measure 213v. So something seems wrong here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
tater_salad posted:Is there a reason why the ground is on top? It's safer because if a plug is half in and you drop something into it, it's much less likely to hit a current-carrying component. It's a pretty remote possibility which is why no one really cares, but it's the safer way to install.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
Cyril Sneer posted:Ok. But something funky is happening. Between the ground and either prong I measured 123v, but across the prongs I measure 213v. So something seems wrong here. That's how it should be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Cyril Sneer posted:Ok. But something funky is happening. Between the ground and either prong I measured 123v, but across the prongs I measure 213v. So something seems wrong here. This is actually normal. You have two opposite phases coming into your house. Either phase to neutral (which should also be bonded to ground at some point) will be 110-120v, and phase to phase will be double that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
Cyril Sneer posted:Hi guys, I have an AC unit that plugs into the outlet shown below, which I'm looking to run through a thermostat-controlled relay.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 03:27
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:This is actually normal. You have two opposite phases coming into your house. Either phase to neutral (which should also be bonded to ground at some point) will be 110-120v, and phase to phase will be double that. Warning: electrical engineering sperging ahead! It's actually a single phase, but the transformer is center tapped and the center tap is grounded. It's called "residential splitphase" in industry, among other things. 2 prong 240V outlets: two hots. That's all. 3 prong 240V outlets: two hots and a ground. 4 prong 240V/120V outlets: two hots, neutral, and ground. Typically used for equipment that has timers/digital electronics running off a power supply tapped onto one phase. Previously, people just built these with the small controls electronics running from a hot to ground, but grounding vs neutral return is more stringent these days. Your ground and neutral should be bonded at one and only one location in the system. Where it is depends on where your service disconnect is and how your generator transfer switch (if any) is set up. I'm still not 100% clear on how those rules all interact. So basically, don't bond the neutral+ground in any boxes or subpanels, bond it in your main panel or service disconnect. If you've got a fairly vanilla residential service, that's all there is to it. Adding a generator and/or more specialized service equipment can change this significantly. e: everyone who said that 120 hot to ground and 240 hot to hot is normal and why the ground prong goes up is correct. To add to that, if a 120V outlet is mounted horizontally, as in a baseboard mounting, the neutral prong should be up. It's all so that if a paperclip/gum wrapper/silverware/coins/whatever slides off a table and down the wall, it is more likely to land on the ground or the neutral prong than it is to land across (and short out) the hots (in a 240V outlet) or the hot and neutral (in a 120V outlet.) Probably 80% of the construction I've seen ignores this rule and I've never seen a home fail inspection for it. I've put a few in wrong without thinking about it in my house, but most of them are done right. kastein fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 03:42
|
|
|
I don't think code ever specifies outlet orientation anyway, does it? My house has all of them as ground-down, except for switched outlets which are mounted ground-up to indicate which one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 04:14
|
|
|
angryrobots posted:What kind of a relay are you going to control this with? Based on his reaction in the fix it fast thread, probably the ranco etc 111000 I recommended over there. It'll handle 120 and 240 just fine, you just have to use a different screw terminal inside (upper block, middle terminal moves to upper block left-most terminal.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:Based on his reaction in the fix it fast thread, probably the ranco etc 111000 I recommended over there. It'll handle 120 and 240 just fine, you just have to use a different screw terminal inside (upper block, middle terminal moves to upper block left-most terminal.) I gotcha. I read that post, it looks like the window unit he wants to control may have resistive heat as well (he mentions baseboard heat at first, then says the window unit has three levels of heat and ac). Anyhow, it looks like the controller in question is rated for 16A. If the unit has a heater coil, that is almost certainly not enough current capacity. If this unit is on more than a 15A breaker, that's a pretty serious hazard.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 06:29
|
|
|
angryrobots posted:What kind of a relay are you going to control this with? A ranco etc 111000 controller. angryrobots posted:I gotcha. I read that post, it looks like the window unit he wants to control may have resistive heat as well (he mentions baseboard heat at first, then says the window unit has three levels of heat and ac). To clarify, the baseboard heating is in the bedroom; not sure why I even mentioned it. The living room contains the unit in question. It's not exactly a window unit - its mounted on the wall. I think its called a "split", as it has an intake/exhaust grill on the exterior wall. It can be operated in both a cooling or heating mode. If you've ever been in an old hotel you've seen of these things. Anyway, yes, this whole story started from wanting to be sure that that ranco device was appropriately rated for said unit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 07:01
|
|
|
That's a through-the-wall unit, and it's almost certainly going to need at least a 20A circuit. Find the data plate on the unit, the necessary circuit size will be on there. Not trying to be difficult, a device that pulls say 26A on a relay rated for only 16A is asking for a fire.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 13:17
|
|
|
That's definitely fair. The 111000 recommendation was made based on not even realizing it was a 240 unit, I was assuming it was just a heating unit plugged into a regular 15A 120V outlet. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 14:26
|
|
|
I just replaced a section of damaged drywall that was over a 2 gang outlet, and now the outlet box stick out from the wall too much for a regular faceplate. There's a good quarter inch gap between the fully tightened faceplate and the wall. Googling found me one company that makes "extra deep" faceplates, but it would cost be nearly $20 to get one shipped to me. Is there any other alternative? It's in a new work box that was previously installed, so I can't easily adjust the box itself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 15:25
|
|
|
I have a GAS dryer on a dedicated 20A circuit. Can I add this freezer to the same circuit? Electrical Specifications Amps @ 120 Volts: 5.0 Connected Load (kW Rating) @ 120V: 0.60 Minimum Circuit Required (Amps): 15A Plug Type: NEMA 5-15P Power Cord Length: 60" Power Supply Connection Location: Left Rear Bottom Voltage Rating: 120V, 60Hz Currently the box, single plug, is directly below the panel, it is kosher to add a dual outlet in the box?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
angryrobots posted:That's a through-the-wall unit, and it's almost certainly going to need at least a 20A circuit. Find the data plate on the unit, the necessary circuit size will be on there. I haven't been able to find the plate - there's nothing on the outside of the unit. It does have a kind of "hood" that can, in theory, be opened but its been painted over so many times I can't get it open 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
XmasGiftFromWife posted:I have a GAS dryer on a dedicated 20A circuit. What are the same specs for the dryer? If they add up to less than 20A you can, but if both motors happen to start at the same time it may pop the breaker, or possibly even if only one motor starts while the other is already running.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Resting in the J-hooks is fine. A lot of people like to zip-tie them down so when you're pulling a cable run in (later) they don't go sliding around.  )
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
kastein posted:What are the same specs for the dryer? If they add up to less than 20A you can, but if both motors happen to start at the same time it may pop the breaker, or possibly even if only one motor starts while the other is already running. The freezer draws 5 and the dryer 7. So all good. And the dryer rating was inside the door hidden like car tire pressure. Wouldn't you think power information would be on one of the 3 labels on the back, specifically the one next to the cord? :  :
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2014 02:24
|
|
|
XmasGiftFromWife posted:And the dryer rating was inside the door hidden like car tire pressure. Wouldn't you think power information would be on one of the 3 labels on the back, specifically the one next to the cord? : That seems to be where washers/dryers/dishwashers nearly always have their make/model/serial/data plate, probably so you don't have to crawl behind them to access the information but to still have it in an unobtrusive spot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 20:01 |
|
|
Most of the electrical outlets in my house are half switched. It's nice that I can put floor lamps wherever, but it can be fairly annoying, since I have lots of things to plug in; using a bunch of outlet splitters while half the outlets are empty seems silly. What I'd really like is an outlet with an exterior toggle to flip the second outlet between switched and always on. Is this a thing that exists? Google hasn't been too successful, but I have no idea what you'd call it anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2014 21:22
|
|
