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quote:@puro_yottsume 2h Another big '90s heavyweight wrestler retiring, not too many left now.
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Feb 12, 2014 14:51
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Thauros posted:Another big '90s heavyweight wrestler retiring, not too many left now. And NJPW is the only major company not left holding their dicks when it comes to having reasonably young heavyweight main eventers. Nobody called that when NOAH formed, of that I am certain.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:27
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El Gallinero Gros posted:And NJPW is the only major company not left holding their dicks when it comes to having reasonably young heavyweight main eventers. Nobody called that when NOAH formed, of that I am certain. NJPW's fortunes changed greatly once they unlatched Inoki from creative control. I can't remember if the Juke's purchase caused that or it was afterwards. I'm just surprised that All Japan is still around. I've caught a few of their shows and they were awful.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:44
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I'd rather have AJPW/NOAH/W-1 merge into one company with a decent roster rather than 3 skeletal companies. Has Wrestle-1 really done much since that opening card/announcing an alliance with TNA?
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Feb 12, 2014 17:50
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:I'd rather have AJPW/NOAH/W-1 merge into one company with a decent roster rather than 3 skeletal companies. Has Wrestle-1 really done much since that opening card/announcing an alliance with TNA? They've been running regular tours since the inaugral show.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:01
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Nobody called that when NOAH formed, of that I am certain.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:05
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Illinois Smith posted:Everyone called it about six years ago when it was clear that they either suck at training rookies or don't give a poo poo about them. A drat shame, really. I liked that for a while, Japan had a lot of cool companies to choose from who offered something a little different. Now AJPW is stuck booking guys like D' Lo Brown and Chris the Bambikiller for gaijin, and NOAH is rehashing main eventers who didn't work 5 years ago. At least their indies are still awesome.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:09
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Illinois Smith posted:Everyone called it about six years ago when it was clear that they either suck at training rookies or don't give a poo poo about them. I'd add that NOAH also had for rookie output I think less than ten?
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Feb 12, 2014 18:33
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Chortles posted:If I recall, it was (also) that the NOAH crowd flat-out didn't seem to give a poo poo about them or the "post-90s" guys either with the main exceptions of KENTA and for a time Marufuji. Go Shiazaki and Morishima are the only two that pop out to mind. And Morishima was more trained by Harley Race.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:30
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Chortles posted:I'd add that NOAH also had for rookie output I think less than ten? The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Shiozaki, Kotaro Suzuki, Sugiura, Aoki and MAYBACH. Those last two debuted in 2005. I vaguely remember another guy who debuted around the same time whose name I can't remember. Morishima debuted in 1998 and went through the All Japan dojo before that. Don't think you can count him. The only other dojo graduate I can find on cagematch is Hitoshi Kumano, who debuted last year. So that's six or seven rookies in 14 years. Illinois Smith fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:44
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NOAH tried pretty hard to create some new guys, their choices just flopped hard, like Rikio.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:39
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MassRafTer posted:NOAH tried pretty hard to create some new guys, their choices just flopped hard, like Rikio. To me it always seemed like the moment they started to run with a guy and had a crowd that didn't buy it, they immediately went back to one of the old guard guys.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:37
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Illinois Smith posted:The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Shiozaki, Kotaro Suzuki, Sugiura, Aoki and MAYBACH. Those last two debuted in 2005. I vaguely remember another guy who debuted around the same time whose name I can't remember. Illinois Smith posted:Morishima debuted in 1998 and went through the All Japan dojo before that. Don't think you can count him. Illinois Smith posted:The only other dojo graduate I can find on cagematch is Hitoshi Kumano, who debuted last year. So that's six or seven rookies in 14 years. coconono posted:To me it always seemed like the moment they started to run with a guy and had a crowd that didn't buy it, they immediately went back to one of the old guard guys. And that was even before self-sabotage like having Marufuji vs. KENTA main event the tour-ender with a weak card and them essentially going over-the-top "spot monkey junior" style... Chortles fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 23:15
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It always seemed a strange twist of fate to me that NOAH, a promotion started by an exodus of premier 1990s heavyweights, produced two really popular junior heavyweights who are now the biggest names in the company and the leaders of two of the major units. You would think that a company with Misawa, Kobashi, Akiyama and Taue would bring up a generation of awesome heavyweight talent, but instead your new big names would arguably be more at home in Dragon Gate or Michinoku Pro.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:30
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Panama Red posted:It always seemed a strange twist of fate to me that NOAH, a promotion started by an exodus of premier 1990s heavyweights, produced two really popular junior heavyweights who are now the biggest names in the company and the leaders of two of the major units. You would think that a company with Misawa, Kobashi, Akiyama and Taue would bring up a generation of awesome heavyweight talent, but instead your new big names would arguably be more at home in Dragon Gate or Michinoku Pro.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:38
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Chortles posted:That'd be Genba Hirayanagi (previously Tsutomu Hirayanagi), who was working a shithead heel gimmick for a while, though I remember him being inept at it in his early days, almost as if the joke was that "NOAH is so honorable that this would-be heel doesn't understand basic concepts like using weapons BEHIND THE REF'S BACK, and using weapons in NOAH is so outside-of-the-ref's-frame-of-reference that the ref doesn't DQ him".
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Feb 13, 2014 00:07
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Are you thinking of Akihiko Ito?
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Feb 13, 2014 00:26
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Whatever happened to Ito? They put him in the Mushiking gimmick, then I think he ended up hurting Kotaro on a botch and then just fell off the planet.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:44
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He was out for awhile due to "bad health" prior to his retirement. I read somewhere that he wanted to go to college, but I don't have a source for that.
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Feb 13, 2014 01:19
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civilwhat posted:Are you thinking of Akihiko Ito? We're up to eight dojo graduates already!
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Feb 13, 2014 01:59
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There was also Kento Miyahara, though I'm pretty sure he was a Kensuke Office guy. e: and Okita, whose name I had to look up because I only remembered him as the thick dude that had football style gear (also KO, I think) Horns fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 02:34
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Horns posted:There was also Kento Miyahara, though I'm pretty sure he was a Kensuke Office guy.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:52
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There was also Ippei Ota, who is also now retired. :/
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Feb 13, 2014 03:15
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To be fair to NOAH, pretty much all of the companies had trouble making new stars in the previous decade. Despite their popularity now, New Japan failed to commit to pushing Tanahashi and Nakamura hard in the 2000s, even when they were having great matches against each other. Stuart over at SSS talked recently about this and how Nagata, Tenzan and Nakanishi became big names but never aces in their own right. Kojima famously went up against guys like Kawada and Sasaki in All Japan but never really managed to get over those "walls" (even though I loved Kojima's 2005 match with Kawada especially). The same can also be said of Dragon Gate, where they strapped jetpacks to guys like Ryo Saito and Susumu Yokosuka but then almost instantly fell back on established stars like CIMA and Mochizuki. NJPW ultimately just gave the ball to Tanahashi and Nakamura (and now Okada) and let them run with it, but those guys also had the complete toolkits to turn themselves into superstars, whereas I am not sure the NOAH guys do. I don't think I've heard anyone say anything positive about Morishima since the Nagata win.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:32
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I thought that the problems for Tanahashi, Nakamura, and Nagata were on account of INOKISM~?
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Feb 13, 2014 20:09
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Nagata being destroyed by cro cop sure didn't help matters.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:29
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The MMA boom and Inoki's involvement didn't help matters, but even if Inoki had stayed away, it's debatable whether the third generation guys could have come across as the complete package. Nagata has amazing technical skill but he doesn't have a magnetic personality. Kojima has charisma but he's not the most gifted worker. Nakanishi looks intimidating and he got better in the ring during his Gotch-ism period but he just didn't have that "x factor" to draw as well as NJ's current stars do across Japan. Jobbing guys to Lesnar and Sapp was undeniably dumb and damaged New Japan, but it's also not a given that, had it been a clear MMA-less shift from the 3 Musketeers to the third generation, that the third generation would have lived up to expectations.
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Feb 13, 2014 21:30
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Panama Red posted:To be fair to NOAH, pretty much all of the companies had trouble making new stars in the previous decade. Illinois Smith fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 23:20
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dubble post
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Feb 13, 2014 23:23
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No more Sasaki? Goodnight, sweet tree 
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Feb 13, 2014 23:48
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Any recommendations for a puro fan who is fond of Japanese indies? I've enjoyed DDT and some BJPW in the past.
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Feb 16, 2014 16:33
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Any recommendations for a puro fan who is fond of Japanese indies? I've enjoyed DDT and some BJPW in the past. Dragon Gate?
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Feb 16, 2014 16:38
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FMW and WAR.
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Feb 16, 2014 16:55
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Gonzo McFee posted:FMW and WAR. I probably should have mentioned that I like those companies, too. And I really should watch more Dragon Gate.
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Feb 16, 2014 16:56
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I probably should have mentioned that I like those companies, too. And I really should watch more Dragon Gate. Dragon Gate is probably the only thing that comes close to WSX. They just need more pyro and the ring announcer going slowly insane.
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Feb 16, 2014 22:42
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Any particular Dragon Gate shows?
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Feb 17, 2014 04:05
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Any particular Dragon Gate shows? Kobe Pro Wrestling Festival 2013 was very good
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Feb 17, 2014 04:15
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SAVE_US.CHR
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Any particular Dragon Gate shows? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12iqf9_by-wwe2day-com-d-r-a-g-o-n-gate-kobe-fest-2013-ippv-pt-1_sport http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12iqcc_by-wwe2day-com-d-r-a-g-o-n-gate-kobe-fest-2013-ippv-pt-2_sport http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12iqbn_by-wwe2day-com-d-r-a-g-o-n-gate-kobe-fest-2013-ippv-pt-3_sport http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12iqaw_by-wwe2day-com-d-r-a-g-o-n-gate-kobe-fest-2013-ippv-pt-4_sport http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12iqaa_by-wwe2day-com-d-r-a-g-o-n-gate-kobe-fest-2013-ippv-pt-5_sport http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12iq9i_by-wwe2day-com-d-r-a-g-o-n-gate-kobe-fest-2013-ippv-pt-6_sport oatgan fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 06:50
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I would argue that show would be close to perfect if the main was shorter
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Feb 17, 2014 13:51
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Latest Observer says Dragon Gate is doing iPPV now?
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Feb 17, 2014 14:05
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