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Fart Car '97 posted:I don't see any point in Square Foot Gardening. It doesn't accomplish anything that thinking intelligently about plant spacing wouldn't accomplish anyways.  planting everything dead center in each square.The other thing SFG is really good at, is making someone sound insufferable when they go on and on about it. vonnegutt posted:Unfortunately, the latest iterations of the method seem to be really big on selling stuff and overcomplicating matters. They really emphasize raised beds, custom soil mixes, even the "grid" to lay out the beds. The original Rodale book from the early 80s was far more streamlined, with the biggest takeaways being "don't dig up your entire yard, idiots" and "don't plant a bunch more stuff than you could grow/eat" which are good, but obvious points to anyone with one year's experience.  I really like the SFG setup in theory however, sticking 100% by anything when growing crops, tends to end up meaning that you're going to be more likely to fail from something you didn't account for, or which your set is weak to. Fancy upside-down tomato setups dry out too fast and don't have enough soil, people who rely on chemical fertilizers and soil additives have to spend tons of money and will invariably have to ramp up their usage as they continue to use it, and people propagating fancy tulips are breeding them to encourage the sickest, and you're left with the entire nation of Denmark scratching their heads over why the most valuable plants are the sickliest. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 10:23 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 10:16
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vonnegutt posted:It seems like his focus shifted from eliminating wasteful processes to Maximizing Garden Yields, which is cool, except it seems as if the costs have gone way, way up. zeroprime fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 16:14
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zeroprime posted:My dad has a plot at a seniors' friendship garden that is 30x20 (way way too big, they should have made them half this size with the option to get two). He always looks at the other plots where guys use all sorts of fertilizer and insecticides and complains that he doesn't have plants that look as nice as theirs, or that produce as much as theirs. But then by the time he starts to harvest what he planted, there's always so much that he can't even give it all away to his neighbors. I've been trying to impress on him that it doesn't matter how well his plants grow as long as they grow enough, and so far he's stuck to only using leaf mulch/compost/fish emulsion. But even though your scraggly zucchini is putting out more than you can eat, it's hard not to look at the big bushy one that's almost twice as big the next plot over and wish your's would grow that well. How long has he been at it? Doing things organically like that can take several years before the soil condition improves. The first 1-3 years things are not that great but it gets better every year as long as you aren't doing harmful stuff like roto-tilling every spring.
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May 7, 2014 17:42
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This last week my garden has just popped.  I need to go over to Goons with Spoons and get squash and zucchini recipes.
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May 7, 2014 19:05
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Cpt.Wacky posted:...harmful stuff like roto-tilling every spring. Why is this bad? We have tilled in compost for two springs now, and used to till every year at our old house.  Also, re: garden's popping. My potatoes just went gang busters after not showing themselves for weeks, and the carrot and parsnip seed finally got going.  My tomatoes and peppers are still languishing in their peat pots because we don't get our fencing delivered until Monday, and I don't want to risk putting them in the ground until our new fence comes.For all the mint chat, I will try to remember to grab a pic of it growing between all my keystones. So annoying; I want to nuke and pave it, (big time, hello Roundup) but Mr. Cookie thinks it's just fine where it is.
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May 7, 2014 19:30
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Tilling breaks up the Rhizome and the Rhizome is real important.
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May 7, 2014 19:50
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AlistairCookie posted:Why is this bad? We have tilled in compost for two springs now, and used to till every year at our old house. It just upends the natural stratified ecology that gets set up in a healthy soil, increases erosion, and can redistribute/unearth weed seeds/rhizomes. Things will still grow but when you can get better results for less work why not? No-till has caught on in a big way in industrial agriculture (with some crops being exceptions) but it has been a bit slow to be adopted in home gardening.
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May 7, 2014 19:51
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Shifty Pony posted:It just upends the natural stratified ecology that gets set up in a healthy soil, increases erosion, and can redistribute/unearth weed seeds/rhizomes. Things will still grow but when you can get better results for less work why not? No-till has caught on in a big way in industrial agriculture (with some crops being exceptions) but it has been a bit slow to be adopted in home gardening. I forget the mechanism (despite learning it a few weeks ago in one of my environment classes) but tilling also reduces the amount of carbon that can be sequestered in the soil/biomass, so it's better from an environmental standpoint to go no-till. Hummingbirds fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 20:08
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I planted carrot seeds about 2 weeks ago now and have no growth. Right after I planted them we had a cold / rainy snap for 3-4 days (nighttime temps in the 40s, days in the mid 50s). I am wondering if this probably killed them off? The peas I planted on the same day are coming up nice as well as the arugula I planted but nothing from the carrots. Also the bush and pole beans planted that same day are not popping up with the exception of 1 nice bush bean plant. Did these die off in the short cold snap you think or should I chill out and wait a few more days? Just itching to replant now that the weather is stellar if I need to do so.
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May 7, 2014 20:12
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Hummingbirds posted:I forget the mechanism (despite learning it a few weeks ago in one of my environment classes) but tilling also reduces the amount of carbon that can be sequestered in the soil/biomass, so it's better from an environmental standpoint to go no-till. Does no-till refer to disturbing the soil in any way, or just the actions of a tiller? We tilled to get the sod up and incorporate compost our first year, but every year since have added more compost and worked the top 1' with shovel and rake. Is that bad as well?
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May 7, 2014 20:19
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vonnegutt posted:Does no-till refer to disturbing the soil in any way, or just the actions of a tiller? Here's a very thorough wiki article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-till Don't be concerned about tilling, on an individual scale it makes very little difference in terms of carbon sequestration -- big farmers can get carbon credits for going no-till, which is probably a large reason why they are willing to. I just thought it was a relevant tidbit that not tilling can be ecologically beneficial. There are some downsides to not tilling, and they're outlined in the wiki article.
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May 7, 2014 20:27
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vonnegutt posted:
Nah, you can work the top few inches without worrying about anything. The biggest thing is that heavy tilling of a garden rips up the Rhizosphere, which is what delivers all the micronutrients your plant can't find in the soil immediately around it. Basically, if a plant is lacking in certain nutrients it will send out a chemical signal to fungi in the Rhizosphere, which use their extensive network to take the nutrients from elsewhere and deliver them to the roots of the plant in need. The plant then rewards the fungi with sugars. Also, the oldest, largest living thing in the world is the Pando Aspen Grove which populates via Rhizome. It's awesome. This pic isn't even the Pando, but it's the same idea. Look at this poo poo:  It's all one giant organism. Fart Car '97 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 20:52
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Your tilling question has pretty much already been answered. I thought that I might add that I actually farm an orchard for a living, and I may disk a field once every 5-8 years depending. If I do, it's the top 6-12" (not too invasive). A deep ripping, 2-4 feet is only once every 30-40 years and that's only right before a new orchard is planted. Also, if you are going to roto till your yard, it's best to do it in the fall so that the soil has all winter to "heal". Roto tilling isn't bad if you're adding compost and other nutrients for a first time garden, but when you do it every year it starts to get harmful.
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May 8, 2014 02:14
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I put a bunch of seeds out in paper towel+baggies to start and they got moldy. I guess it's been warm enough that I can just direct-sow this stuff anyway. 
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May 8, 2014 02:28
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Thanks for the tilling chat. We only do it set to the shallowest setting (just a few inches, 3-4 I think) to work in new compost and fertilizer. I will read up on the rhizome layer and try not bothering with it anymore. 
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May 8, 2014 02:30
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Just got back from spraying some Fish and Guano Liquid Fertilizer (9-6-2). At first I thought my tomatoes were suffering from too much water, so I stopped watering for a week during a nice heat wave. After the week I noticed that even the new radish leaves that were popping up were yellow. But now my nostrils are full of fermented fish and bird droppings 
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May 8, 2014 02:45
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 Tonight's salad of baby russian & lacinato kales, outredgeous lettuce, broccoli, nantes/"yellow"/atomic red carrots. Dressed with lemons and oregano (also from the garden)
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May 8, 2014 03:10
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coyo7e posted:I put a bunch of seeds out in paper towel+baggies to start and they got moldy. I guess it's been warm enough that I can just direct-sow this stuff anyway. I put a couple seeds in paper towels a few weeks ago and they straight melted into goop. I don't even know.
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May 8, 2014 03:22
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Fozzy The Bear posted:But now my nostrils are full of fermented fish and bird droppings cityfolk.txt
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May 8, 2014 03:23
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This may have been answered, but I want to be 100%. Back on tilling chat for a moment. Our garden isn't huge, maybe 8' x 20', and it was tilled when we first moved in in 2010 basically to get a head start on keeping the grass and weeds in check. Ever since then every spring I "manually till" meaning I get out there with a shovel, hoe and a rake and go to town essentially turning the soil over (around 4" deep, absolute max 12" if I got trigger happy with the shovel) and maybe doing a little hoe chopping to break everything up. Is this cool or should I be doing something different? Also a random question. Every year I try to plant 2 or 3 giant sunflowers in the garden because I love how they look so much. I also unofficially plant them for these 3 reasons, and just curious if they are bullshit or actually fact: - they draw in tons of sparrows and finches (known fact) and because of this helps keep the bug numbers down in and around the garden - because of said birds, I get the bonus of random bird poop which helps the soil - when they die, their pretty impressive stalk and root system break down and adds nutes to the soil
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May 8, 2014 21:47
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Tyson Tomko posted:This may have been answered, but I want to be 100%. Back on tilling chat for a moment. Our garden isn't huge, maybe 8' x 20', and it was tilled when we first moved in in 2010 basically to get a head start on keeping the grass and weeds in check. Your tilling practice is fine. Rototillers are bad because they essentially pulverize the soil into little bits. What you're doing is still going to leave some chunks of soil. Diversity is always good but I don't think you'll see that much difference in the way of bird poop. Birds do really enjoy pecking out the seeds in the late fall and winter, it's like a natural bird feeder.
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May 8, 2014 22:50
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A bigger benefit of the sunflowers is that they are bee magnets.
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May 9, 2014 00:27
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I just ripped all mine out because they were attracting pests, and some sap sucking bastard bug is spreading curly-top in my garden. I had to pull up another tomato yesterday and I didn't have a replacement of the same variety.
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May 9, 2014 01:27
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well this is the earliest I've ever caught hornworms...
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May 9, 2014 01:36
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Well it looks like the Tomatoes survived the cold snap and are chugging along just fine! The Pepper's still gonna go, though. Beans started popping, too.
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May 9, 2014 02:44
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Got to pick and work at my co-op bed this evening. I've got a looooong weekend of pulling weeds and an untamed raspberry bush that's staying, but needs a reality check.
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May 9, 2014 03:00
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Shifty Pony posted:well this is the earliest I've ever caught hornworms... BT that poo poo pronto. That reminds me, I gotta spray like 70% of my plants (peppers, tomatoes, grapes) this weekend.
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May 9, 2014 06:13
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Breaky posted:I planted carrot seeds about 2 weeks ago now and have no growth. Right after I planted them we had a cold / rainy snap for 3-4 days (nighttime temps in the 40s, days in the mid 50s). I am wondering if this probably killed them off? The peas I planted on the same day are coming up nice as well as the arugula I planted but nothing from the carrots. This got blown by in the tilling discussion but does anyone have thoughts there? In the past few days since I posted a few more of the bush beans have come up but still no carrots or pole beans.
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May 9, 2014 13:10
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AxeBreaker posted:BT that poo poo pronto. That reminds me, I gotta spray like 70% of my plants (peppers, tomatoes, grapes) this weekend. Planning on picking up some Thuricide today actually. I already lost one tomato this year and I'm not going to have the others get defoliated. My tomatoes seem to be very happy plans but I'm having pollination trouble. They keep dropping their flowers instead of setting fruit so now i get to play bumblebee with my old vibrating mach-3 razor handle.
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May 9, 2014 13:43
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Shifty Pony posted:
Haha please detail this process
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May 9, 2014 14:06
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Fart Car '97 posted:Haha please detail this process Tomatoes can be largely self-pollinating. You just need to get the pollen to drop from the stamen to the stigma inside of each flower. Something vibrating is supposed to mimic a bee, which is the original pollinator for these plants. A lot of people use electric toothbrushes. Just put it on a pollinating branch and let it run for a bit. Or just gently shake the branches. I have to do this for the plants in the greenhouse because they don't get the wind or bee attention of the outside ones.
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May 9, 2014 14:46
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Also honeybees aren't very effective at buzz pollination so bumblebees are the best for tomato pollination. I have honeybees in the garden which is why I have other things setting fruit like my squash and a billion peppers. I had bumblebees earlier but they seem to have gotten distracted somewhere else in the neighborhood.
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May 9, 2014 15:17
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I just set up an herb garden for my wife (pots). Basil, rosemary, oregano, cilantro, parsley, and thyme. Can anyone point me to a reliable resource for properly harvesting herbs without taking too much, or damaging the plants unnecessarily?
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May 9, 2014 18:12
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Any suggestions on what I can use to mulch around my pole beans? I was hoping it would help them stop getting all chewed up.
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May 9, 2014 18:26
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Breaky posted:This got blown by in the tilling discussion but does anyone have thoughts there? In the past few days since I posted a few more of the bush beans have come up but still no carrots or pole beans. Carrots take a long time to germinate.
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May 9, 2014 19:10
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Gerbil_Pen posted:I just set up an herb garden for my wife (pots). Most herbs respond well to being cut back and they come back bushier but the specifics can vary by plant. Do a search for "how to harvest X" if you want specifics. I'd say in general you're ok cutting some but not all of any particular stem.
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May 9, 2014 19:34
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Breaky posted:This got blown by in the tilling discussion but does anyone have thoughts there? In the past few days since I posted a few more of the bush beans have come up but still no carrots or pole beans. did you bury the carrot seeds or keep them close to the surface? i think carrot seeds need light. the ones i planted last year failed because i buried them 1/2 inch, the ones this year grew because i didnt do anything other then lightly sprinkle a tiny bit of dirt over them. they still took 2 weeks to germinate, though.
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May 9, 2014 20:34
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Cpt.Wacky posted:Most herbs respond well to being cut back and they come back bushier but the specifics can vary by plant. Do a search for "how to harvest X" if you want specifics. I'd say in general you're ok cutting some but not all of any particular stem. Excellent, from early reading it seems it is safe to cut 1/3 of any stem.
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May 9, 2014 21:59
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Managed to get some passion fruit seeds. Apparently old seeds can take a long time to germinate, so here's to the waiting game.
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May 9, 2014 22:58
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The leaves of my pepper plants curl up from the sides and are slightly yellow. I just fertilized 2 days ago, so I am hoping that greens up, but what does the curling mean? Should I not worry about it? Three weeks worth of lettuce growth, time for salad! April 18th  May 9th 
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May 10, 2014 05:27
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