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Saw it again. On the phone right now but I want to say the Christian imagery is inescapable if you pay attention. Sgt. Farrell even says he's taking Cage to his baptism. Within 10 minutes Cage is bathed in blood and born again.
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Jun 14, 2014 12:39
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RBA Starblade posted:Yes, exactly. Oh, I get it. Because the evil brain is a literal brain, there can be no symbolism or metaphors because of course humans need brains. Makes sense. So if you killed a strategist, the 'brains' of the military, would the rest of the army drop dead? Why don't we do that more often?
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Jun 14, 2014 13:14
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With How to Train Your Dragon 2 and 22 Jump Street coming out this weekend, I except a >50% drop for EoT. 
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Jun 14, 2014 13:30
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Okay on the second viewing and on the lookout for the things in the thread, specifically with regards to the relationship between Cage, the aliens, and the military: I agree with SMG that the aliens and the military are analogous. Cage is forced into becoming a killing machine by both the general and Sgt. Farrell, and the alien transfers its essence to him on the same day. The alien may baptize Cage with its essence, but Farrell shepherds and exhorts him on the way to his baptism, and in the first loop even literally says that he will be baptized. Cage is initially confused about his transformation and resists it, but is convinced by a (duped) Rita to embrace the violent, alien, machine nature and become like the alien/military. (It's no accident that Rita takes Cage through a huge bay where power armor suits are being constructed and through a door marked WEAPONS REPAIR to begin his training.) After a fun training/death montage, we get a look at Cage and Rita blasting their way through the aliens as whirling, leaping killing machines - in a fighting style very like the alien killing machines. The interlude with Rita in the German farmhouse is thematically important. Cage sheds the suit and tries to pretend to be human again. Rita jokes about starting a fire and opening wine, but that's obviously what Cage wants. Cage tries to play at being a human again with her... and fails. He knows Rita takes three sugars without asking, and Rita realizes that his humanity, no matter how much he desires it, is an act. She insists that they keep fighting and dies for it. Cage then finally gives up his attempts to retain his humanity, gives up on Rita, and tries to kill the enemy with its own machine/time powers. He pointedly ignores his squadmates dying around him, fights perfectly, and finally makes it through only to discover that it was all a trap. Fighting has been a trap all along, and Rita was just as thoroughly duped as Cage. He manages to get himself killed and reports back to Rita and the scientist that fighting is ultimately a trap. (Reinforced by the scientist's early summation of the enemy: "All they need is for the dominant life form to attack and WHAM!") It's hard not to find an anti-military message in that. The two soldiers, veil lifted from their eyes, immediately go to confront the general, which by now should be looking like a fairly strong potential analog for the Omega. Sure enough, in his office (for plot reasons only or for thematic reasons?) they find the key to finding the Omega, and like the Omega he deceives them and attempts to capture them. This is what I haven't seen SMG talk about : From the confrontation with the general on, Cage and Rita are gradually stripped of their alienness and war machines, until when they confront the Omega they are unarmed, wounded humans. I don't think it's accidental that Rita and Cage embrace (he saves her from the falling concrete slab, but they embrace for a long moment afterward) and kiss for the first time just as they have shed all their weapons and war machines on the cusp of victory. Anyway, the shots of their single dropship's departure over the cliffs of Dover with J-squad deliberately references and contrasts with the first 20 minutes of the film when a massive air fleet departs over the same cliffs. On the flight a soldier asks what they should do if they are cornered by an Alpha. In contrast to their earlier call-and-response with Farrell: "What do warriors do?" "Kill! Kill! Kill!" Cage tells the soldier that he should die rather than killing. When they drop into Paris, Cage's power armor literally weighs him down, nearly killing him in the Seine. When he meets up with Rita, she has also lost her armor without explanation. J-aquad sacrifice themselves as Rita and Cage break the dropship, this giant military machine, tearing it apart as they drive towards their destination. In the fall into the Louvre parking garage, they lose their weapons. By the time they have reached the Omega they are "naked" without the suits and unarmed save for the sacrificial grenade belt. They embrace and kiss for the first time, in contrast to their conversation in the minivan when a power-suited Rita at first refused to get to know power-suited Cage because "it's just war." Rita sacrifices herself to distract the Alpha, and Cage sacrifices himself to destroy the Omega, for once not firing a shot or killing anything except the giant machine (an analog for the general and the military) that has transformed and tormented them throughout the film. Then the ending happens -- and I agree its jarring and out of place. Even my friends, who were not really interested in discussing the symbolism, noticed how out of place the ending was and thought the film would have been better if the credits rolled after the Omega died. I don't agree with SMG that it's such a downer ending, although I can see where he's coming from. But the military has been symbolically, if not really, engaged and destroyed in the climax of the film. Or at least, Cage and Rita have freed themselves from its influence and died nobly as humans, rather than as alien/military killing machines. I think if I could just change a few little things in the ending to make it feel better or fit better thematically, I would have the aliens simply disappear rather than shut down, and the military disarming in the end of the film rather than surging to victory. We could see J squad getting out of the military, soldiers striking the huge tents on the Heathrow tarmac, and people shouting that the war is over as Cage walks into Rita's training tent. It would be nice to see the general get some sort of comeuppance as well, but oh well. I would really like to see the original ending. Thoughts that didn't fit into this narrative but are worth remembering: -Cage goes to confront the Omega, is tricked, and is stopped by two alien machines, which try to capture him and drain his blood. -Cage and Rita confront the general, are tricked, and are captured by two power-armored soldiers. They successfully drain Cage's blood of its power. -Despite being a major, Cage's relationship with the military command structure is relentlessly antagonistic from the first five minutes of the film. -The general and Farrell are sinister figures throughout the film, while the joe schmoe conscript J squad become allies. -Cage attempts to desert for real this time, and the aliens attack London and kill him. Plot requirement or a comment on the futlity of disengagement from the anti-alien/military conflict? -On first viewing it never connected for me how obviously mirrored Rita's lines about human connections are in the middle and end of the film. In the middle of the film, wearing their power suits, alien-blood Cage bullshits and fakes human connection with Rita. Rita says she "doesn't want to get to know you." When an unarmed Rita kisses an unarmed and wounded Cage at the end she says, "I wish I had the time to get to know you." Very cut-and-dried contrast. -Very curious what the original ending was and why it tested badly with early screening audiences. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 15:29
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quote:So if you killed a strategist, the 'brains' of the military, would the rest of the army drop dead? Why don't we do that more often? "The Omega is not human." The Mimics have brains, but they act for many bodies. Humans, surprisingly, have only one body for one brain. And what do you mean no symbolism? Do you disagree with the notion that it is analogous to Capitalism? (I would, I like to think we don't need Capitalism to live.) quote:With How to Train Your Dragon 2 and 22 Jump Street coming out this weekend, I except a >50% drop for EoT. It's already doing fairly poorly, right? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 15:41
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RBA Starblade posted:"The Omega is not human." The Mimics have brains, but they act for many bodies. Humans, surprisingly, have only one body for one brain. And what do you mean no symbolism? Do you disagree with the notion that it is analogous to Capitalism? (I would, I like to think we don't need Capitalism to live.) Not to offend, but your rhetorical strategy seems to be a feigned confusion. The point of uniting with all drones is to free them - and, if drones die in the process, to honor their spirits. The spirit of the drones is what allows them to persist beyond death. 'Love thy neighbour' means loving a person even if they are trying to kill you. It does not mean letting them kill you. If you want to be strictly literal, however, we are told outright that the Alpha drones have their own brains and do the thinking 'for' the Omega. It is entirely possible what one or more could survive the death of the Omega. If so, Cruise should unite with these drones against their mutual oppressor. johntfs posted:That said, some form of regulated Capitalism is probably our best system of a bad lot if only because it doesn't need humans to be better than humans in order to function at some minimally acceptable level. We do not disagree as to the meaning of the film, then. You are simply my enemy.
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Jun 14, 2014 16:54
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quote:Not to offend, but your rhetorical strategy seems to be a feigned confusion. Is that what you think? Well, okay then. quote:If you want to be strictly literal, however, we are told outright that the Alpha drones have their own brains and do the thinking 'for' the Omega. It is entirely possible what one or more could survive the death of the Omega. If this is true and the Alphas are not just triggers for the time-reset, then fair enough and I would agree that you should not kill a surrendering enemy.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:11
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Arglebargle III posted:And yeah, the film is really sympathetic to J Squad even as it makes officers look creepy and evil. One of Cage's repeating sins is that he leaves his fellows doing pushups while he himself engages in robot training or whatever. It's really jarring that, in the final action scene, J Squad serves Cage as, effectively, ablative armor rather than being portrayed as his equals.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:43
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Arglebargle III posted:I agree with SMG that the aliens and the military are analogous. Cage is forced into becoming a killing machine by both the general and Sgt. Farrell, and the alien transfers its essence to him on the same day. The alien may baptize Cage with its essence, but Farrell shepherds and exhorts him on the way to his baptism, and in the first loop even literally says that he will be baptized. Cage is initially confused about his transformation and resists it, but is convinced by a (duped) Rita to embrace the violent, alien, machine nature and become like the alien/military. [...] After a fun training/death montage, we get a look at Cage and Rita blasting their way through the aliens as whirling, leaping killing machines - in a fighting style very like the alien killing machines. That whole post is totally accurate, but it's worth underlining here that Bill Paxton's 'baptism' is a false baptism. As noted earlier in the thread, it's the difference between a more fundamentalist Christianity (the Church is the highest authority on Earth; transubstantiation is a scientific fact; magic blood literally exists, like midichlorians...) and a more radical interpretation that is, essentially, Christian Atheism (Christ's sacrifice on the cross represents the death of God. We are forsaken by God and thus, terrifyingly, alone and free. The 'blood of Christ' is purely a metaphor for spiritual community...). I've repeatedly brought up comparisons to other films in this thread because: a) Edge is really deriative. But that means... b) It is also employing scifi archetypes in familiar and easily recognizable ways. CD, in general, really loved Cabin In The Woods. However, that film ends - in a directly analogous way - with the protagonists declaring the UDF too corrupt to survive. The protagonists declare that any system that requires sacrificing their friends is not worth upholding, so they step back and allow the Omega to unleash the apocalypse. (This is definitely not a Christian ending; that would entail loving the zombie drones - thy neighbour - as family.) In Captain America, Cap kills the Omega but then realizes that the UDF is still very corrupt. He vows to keep fighting and, in the sequel, teams up with a group of women and black people to wage war against the UDF. This is a more progressive 'multicultural' ending, but it stops short. Cap is unable to unite with the lowest drone: The Winter Soldier, who sports the symbolic hand of the workers. The sequel ends on an ambiguous note, with Cap embarking on an introspective quest: he wants to be a good Christian, but isn't. Yet. In Elysium, Max destroys the UDF and unites with the drones, which has the effect of totally neutralizing the Omega. The Omega is forced to grant truly universal human rights, and is thus transformed from a demonic force into a host of angels. All four films cover the same basic themes - the same basic plot, really - but with wildly different storytelling techniques and outcomes. If you're a fan of more than one, the contradiction of their messages is something you need to take into account. Ferrinus posted:It's really jarring that, in the final action scene, J Squad serves Cage as, effectively, ablative armor rather than being portrayed as his equals. Yeah, it's very important not to just focus on the ending(s). We could have an excellent film with an identical plot, because presentation is key. The lengthy climax at the Louvre could have a totally different presentation. Armond White pointed out that, quite accurately, that even as Cruise becomes more skilled at combat, the action never really becomes clearer. The brilliance of Battle: Los Angeles is that the handheld camerawork stabilizes in accordance with the characters' level of confidence and faith. The editing, too, becomes more coherent. That's why it's a great existential film.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:21
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Ferrinus posted:It's really jarring that, in the final action scene, J Squad serves Cage as, effectively, ablative armor rather than being portrayed as his equals. Maybe, but they actually get quite a humanizing scene just before that introduces their previous lives. One of the guys is even supporting his buddy's family back home. I agree the fight scene at the end is not done that well, in fact it's hands down the worst in the movie.
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Jun 15, 2014 02:43
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Just saw the movie, and I really enjoyed it, overall! I apologize if this has been answered before, but one thing's been bothering me: I know Cage got enveloped by the blue stuff at the end, so he could cause a reset, but how did the Omega destruction "stick?"
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Jun 15, 2014 03:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Then let this be our final battle! Seriously, can we finally stop battling about capitalism vs whatever? At least in this thread? There's an entire forum section called Debate Disco where you can Das Kapital the holy living gently caress out of everyone around you to your pinko commie heart's contentment. But this Groundhog D-Day movie discussion really isn't the place for all that stuff.
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Jun 15, 2014 03:26
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Arglebargle III posted:Maybe, but they actually get quite a humanizing scene just before that introduces their previous lives. One of the guys is even supporting his buddy's family back home. I agree the fight scene at the end is not done that well, in fact it's hands down the worst in the movie. Yeah, that's what gets me. J Squad is built up really well, but then... PunkBoy posted:Just saw the movie, and I really enjoyed it, overall! I apologize if this has been answered before, but one thing's been bothering me: I know Cage got enveloped by the blue stuff at the end, so he could cause a reset, but how did the Omega destruction "stick?" I think that whenever a human hijacks blue timejuice from the corpse of a dead alien, they effectively steal that alien's place in the timeline/very existence, such that the alien itself never respawns. We never see an alpha on the beach battlefield again, for instance.
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Jun 15, 2014 04:01
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Arglebargle III posted:Maybe, but they actually get quite a humanizing scene just before that introduces their previous lives. One of the guys is even supporting his buddy's family back home. I agree the fight scene at the end is not done that well, in fact it's hands down the worst in the movie. In film, exposition is an exceedingly poor way to convey information. The humanization here is all tell, no show - which means it barely even registers. johntfs posted:But this Groundhog D-Day movie discussion really isn't the place for all that stuff. Groundhog Day is the most philosophical movie, and WWII is not apolitical. Those who forget history - e.g. the root causes of WWII - are doomed to repeat it. You might even say they live, die, repeat it.
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Jun 15, 2014 04:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Groundhog Day is the most philosophical movie, and WWII is not apolitical. Bill Murray gains immortality and discovers that eternal life is the worst thing, and escapes by turning himself into someone else - becoming a 'new man'. The Bill Murray that faces the day after Groundhog day onwards is a different person, even though now he will one day die permanently. This movie is the equivalent of if, in the end, Murray went 'gently caress that poo poo, I'm free!' and became a misogynist again. And then...he exploded.
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Jun 15, 2014 14:16
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Hbomberguy posted:Bill Murray gains immortality and discovers that eternal life is the worst thing, and escapes by turning himself into someone else - becoming a 'new man'. The Bill Murray that faces the day after Groundhog day onwards is a different person, even though now he will one day die permanently.
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Jun 15, 2014 15:24
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A little-known bat person once said that it's not who you are underneath, but what you 'do', that defines you. From the standpoint of the entire rest of the world, Cruise has not 'done' anything. He might be smarter deep inside, but what will he do with it? Specifically: how well do you think it will go if he walks up to Blunt and says "oh yeah I did this wonderful thing and you totally fell in love with me. I can assure you it was beautiful. So, wanna bone?" In a directly related way, Cruise's act of love for all humanity - the demonstration of the will to sacrifice himself for the people - also never happened. The only way to experience that true love again is to try to recapture the spirit of rebellion. It's the only way his relationship with Blunt will work.
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Jun 15, 2014 17:29
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Mars4523 posted:How? Just because he's retained his rank and career doesn't mean that he hasn't changed as a person. He's no longer "Major Bill Cage, Craven Coward Adman", he's "Major Bill Cage, Warweary Combat Veteran Adman". Who he is, and how he's changed, still remains despite that time loop. Murray's character embraces the eventuality of change and, implictly, death. He ceases to be an island, becomes willing to change even though it means one day dying. Cruise's character loving loves being back where he was before, and now he truly has it all. The way he approaches Blunt makes me dubious as to whether any of the changes he underwent have stuck. It looks like he only changed just enough that the problem of the alien invasion went away, and now he can forget all the societal problems he's encountered. He's still a propogandist and the poor still die for the rich. Only now, he might...feel more bad about it? Deserves to be rich because of his many sacrifices (which cost him nothing)? This isn't a value judgment of the film. I just see the ending as the main character's failure.
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Jun 15, 2014 17:34
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Hbomberguy posted:He's still a propogandist and the poor still die for the rich. Only now, he might...feel more bad about it? Deserves to be rich because of his many sacrifices (which cost him nothing)? So, Cage is a failure because be became a better person instead of a perfect person? Okay. The soldiers in this movie are dying for more than the rich. They're dying for other poor and middle-class people too. They're dying for their parents, children, British Typewriter Fetishists and a way of life which they seem to be pretty okay with all things considered. As far as default defenders against aliens goes, I much prefer the mildly exploitative UDF to the creepy fascism of Starship Troopers' Mobile Infantry. In terms of rich and poor, a just-enlisted US Army Private (which the J-squaders probably aren't) makes $1467.60 a month. A newly promoted Major (which Cage probably isn't) makes @4222.90 a month. I don't see any of these people being "rich."
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Jun 15, 2014 19:43
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johntfs posted:So, Cage is a failure because be became a better person instead of a perfect person? Okay. Rich people with good prospects rarely join the infantry. Wage differences within the military itself, or even the fact being in the military can be a well-paying job, is irrelevant to the point: The Have-nots die because they are Have-nots, protecting those who Have. This is a social issue that exists in real life, not just this film, and Cruise's inability/unwillingness to do anything to address it (or just not noticing it somehow) is indicative of something. The Starship Troopers film is a satire of fascism, so I'm glad you do identify it as creepy, but you raise an interesting point: In ST, military service entitles you to citizenship. Assuming the rich can't exploit this by buying citizenship, this could in practice be a good thing. A society where only those who willingly laid down their lives can vote might actually be a solution to the problem posed in EoT, and real-life. The trouble it would probably raise in practice is that it means voters are all people who have been trained specifically by the military, which narrows the viewpoints in politics and can be worse. Also only military-veterans can teach certain subjects in education, which is also a problem.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:29
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Symbolically, the soldiers die to destroy the military machine that has transformed them into machine/soldiers.
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Jun 16, 2014 00:00
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The thing is, Cage died for everyone, rich or poor. That he actually managed to survive the encounter is just completely accidental. Cage died so that the soldiers of the UDF (who I might add are a completely volunteer force, so much so that they actually take recruits like J Squad) do not have to die. Cage retaining his rank at the end, after multiple personal sacrifices, is not a personal failure (and we're not even going to start on how the persistence of the officer/enlisted command structure, used both in capitalist and communist militaries, cannot be equated with a character flaw). Or that he spends a significant chunk of the movie trying to save two enlisted personnel, himself dying multiple times in the process. There's no reason to think that non-demoted Major Cage's character development hasn't stuck, and there's still a tremendous amount of good he can do as a propagandist. Or, hell, maybe he requests a transfer into a combat unit immediately after the credits role. But does being an officer mean being a failure of a character or person? Not really. Symbolically, the soldiers die to destroy the genoxidal alien menace that has already wiped out Europe.
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Jun 16, 2014 00:17
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Mars4523 posted:The thing is, Cage died for everyone, rich or poor. [...] Symbolically, the soldiers die to destroy the genoxidal alien menace that has already wiped out Europe. It's easy to point out the problem here, by noting films that also end with a class-truce against an obscene intruder - rich and poor uniting against the genocidal alien menace. I'm referring to, of course, Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. Young Anakin Skywalker risks his life to blow up the Omega (the droid-control ship), saving human and gungan alike from the genocidal drone armies of the Trade Federation. The film ends with everybody celebrating the miraculous victory with a multicultural tolerance parade. 'Course, the joke is in the title: the drones are not the real enemy - it was the humans all along! More subtly, the same class-truce occurs in The Matrix: Revolutions: "The key feature of the entire Matrix series is the progressive need to elevate Smith into the principal negative hero, a threat to the universe, a kind of negative of Neo. Who is effectively Smith? A kind of allegory of Fascist forces: a bad program (lone wild, autonomized, threatening the Matrix. So the lesson of the film, is, at its best, that of an anti-Fascist struggle: the brutal thug Fascist developed by the Capital to control workers (by the Matrix to control humans) run out of control, and the Matrix has to enlist the help of humans to crush them in the same way liberal capital had to enlist the help, of Communists, its mortal enemy, to defeat Fascism... [...] [Does], in Matrix Revolutions, Neo really turn into a Christ figure? It may look so: at the very end of his duel with Smith, he turns into (another) Smith so that, when he dies, Smith (all the Smiths) is (are) also destroyed... However, a closer looks renders visible a key difference: Smith is a proto-Jewish figure, an obscene intruder who multiplies like rats, who runs amok and disturbs the harmony of Humans and Matrix-Machines, so that his destruction enables a (temporary) class truce. What dies with Neo is this Jewish intruder who brings conflict and imbalance; in Christ, on the contrary, God himself becomes man so that, with the death of Christ, this man (ecce homo), God (of beyond) himself also dies. The true "Christological" version of the Matrix trilogy would thus entail a radically different scenario: Neo should have been a Matrix program rendered human, a direct human embodiment of the Matrix, so that, when he dies, the Matrix itself destroys itself." -Slavoj Zizek
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Jun 16, 2014 06:44
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Pretty sure there's conscription in the UDF. When aliens invade you can bet they're reinstating the draft. Most of Europe has drafts in peacetime now.
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Jun 16, 2014 07:00
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Arglebargle III posted:Pretty sure there's conscription in the UDF. When aliens invade you can bet they're reinstating the draft. Most of Europe has drafts in peacetime now. The movie goes out of its way to point out that Cage's work brings in huge numbers of volunteer military personnel and while it might not be a stretch to assume conscription, the literal text of the film at no point implies that the people on the battlefields did not join by their own free will. E: Assuming I'm remembering things correctly of course. Also, I really enjoyed this movie and I really like Cruise in non-serious sci-fi.
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Jun 16, 2014 07:38
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So everything's gonna be okay because Cage sacrificed his (infinite) life to save Mars4523 posted:The thing is, Cage died for everyone, rich or poor. Mars4523 posted:Cage died so that the soldiers of the UDF do not have to die. Mars4523 posted:Symbolically, the soldiers die to destroy the genoxidal alien menace that has already wiped out Europe. Nah, sorry. Make up your mind and try again.
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Jun 16, 2014 10:20
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Mars4523 posted:Symbolically, the soldiers die to destroy the genoxidal alien menace that has already wiped out Europe. This is correct too. Things can symbolize themselves and also symbolize other things.
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Jun 16, 2014 11:11
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Hbomberguy posted:The trouble it would probably raise in practice is that it means voters are all people who have been trained specifically by the military, which narrows the viewpoints in politics and can be worse. Or, it could be argued that people who join the military, who actually move more than 50 miles from where they are born, meet, live, and work with other people and races with whom they may otherwise have never interacted, travel the world and live among other cultures, and otherwise gain more worldly experience by the time they are 22 than the majority of other humans on the planet do their entire lives, may have their world views refined to eliminate a lot of the bullshit that clouds people whose primary life experience came from somebody elses experience and books. Not arguing, just responding to your casual, offhanded insult to veterans. To add content to the discussion, it bugged me that Tom Cruise was apparently the PR face of the UDF, he was on TV all the time, he told the General that he was personally responsible for getting millions of people to enlist, and yet no one ever recognized him when he wakes up handcuffed on duffel bags. GORDON fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 16, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2014 16:33
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GORDON posted:Or, it could be argued that people who join the military, who actually move more than 50 miles from where they are born, meet, live, and work with other people and races with whom they may otherwise have never interacted, travel the world and live among other cultures, and otherwise gain more worldly experience by the time they are 22 than the majority of other humans on the planet do their entire lives, may have their world views refined to eliminate a lot of the bullshit that clouds people whose primary life experience came from somebody elses experience and books. I wasn't insulting veterans. Also, the veterans are not real. I was pointing out that a society where only one particular kind of person can vote will probably produce a society that is pro-those things. Let's say for example, if only white people could vote or teach classes. Now you could produce a bunch of statistics 'proving' that white people have better decision-making abilities or higher IQs on average (probably measured by a team of white scientists) or whatever and claim society really would get better as a result, but I wonder what group of people would benefit most from it...
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Jun 16, 2014 17:08
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Thank God they'd never do something like that.
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Jun 16, 2014 17:41
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johntfs posted:So, Cage is a failure because be became a better person instead of a perfect person? Okay. How did he become a better person? He learned soldiery which is pretty much useless now since there's no one to fight*, all the knowledge he picked up about the aliens can't be proved either way and no one'd believe him anyhow, and the first thing he does after he realizes what he's just done is to look for a Rita that has no recollection of him whatsoever. * Yes, fine, okay, I'm sure someone's going to come back with an analogy of a former SEAL or someone from Easy Company using the discipline and skills picked up during their service and using it to become a successful businessman, but Cage already was successful before the war started and still salvaged the post-war business failure to pivot into becoming a Major that need not ever see combat
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Jun 16, 2014 17:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:How did he become a better person? He learned soldiery which is pretty much useless now since there's no one to fight*, all the knowledge he picked up about the aliens can't be proved either way and no one'd believe him anyhow, and the first thing he does after he realizes what he's just done is to look for a Rita that has no recollection of him whatsoever. Cage becomes a better person by learning to consider and care about people other than himself. Cage starts out as a selfish, cowardly rear end in a top hat who destroys himself through his selfish, cowardly assholery and then dies. He spends the first act of the movie acclimating to his new powers/environment. He loses his physical cowardice (if only because he is literally dying a thousand deaths) but overall maintains a selfish viewpoint. His goal in eventually going after the Omega is too get out of this weird situation with a whole skin. Once the dreams start, so does the second act, in which he and Rita partner up to seek out and kill the Omega, ultimately leading to the farmhouse. At the point Cage admits that he cares about Rita and that he's been trying to find a way for them to make it through to beat the Omega together. After that scene, he tries for the Omega alone, being willing to sacrifice his potential relationship with Rita in order to save her life. It's the first time he makes a genuinely consciously selfless choice and that choice helps reveal that the dam-dream is a trap, which ends the second act. Finally, in the third act, he loses his special powers but goes after the Omega anyway, bring Rita and J-squad with him. At the end he has a choice of trying to kill the Alpha to regain his powers (and perhaps find a way to win and survive or sacrificing himself to destroy the Omega and save humanity. He chooses the latter, showing that he has fully internalized the capacity for selfless action. At the end, Cage gains an unlooked for reward - getting to redo the meeting with the general and reclaim/never lose his rank. Then, he goes to the base and gets to see all of J-squad alive and preparing to go on an invasion that will be a bloodless victory lap instead of a wholesale slaughter. Finally, he goes to meet Rita so he can tell her their story and live through whatever happens next.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:23
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I liked the movie, but I thought it was kinda weird we're supposed to dislike Kage at the start for the terrible crime of being a P.R man who has no wish to get shanghaied into the front lines.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:52
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Harime Nui posted:I liked the movie, but I thought it was kinda weird we're supposed to dislike Kage at the start for the terrible crime of being a P.R man who has no wish to get shanghaied into the front lines. Ad men as a rule are scummy and it turns out the thing he's selling (the suits) don't actually work the way people think they do (although he doesn't know that).
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Jun 16, 2014 19:58
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computer parts posted:Ad men as a rule are scummy and it turns out the thing he's selling (the suits) don't actually work the way people think they do (although he doesn't know that). Ohhh totally didn't get the gag about Kage not knowing how to work the suit cuz it didn't work as advertised.  That's funny and makes more sense as to why he's supposed to be more despicable at the start
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Jun 16, 2014 20:20
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The idea that's missing in Starship Troopers is a properly universal democracy. They are right to reject the basic idea of majority rule - that is, where a country with a white majority gets an entrenched white rulership. The problem is that they define only those with military service as citizens, and not - as in Elysium - the poorest. True universality is found where people are most excluded. The most obvious gag in Troopers is the fake ad where a multicultural group of kids, wearing 1990s fashion, are encouraged to stomp on cockroaches for the good of the Cause (some nice intertextuality with Men In Black there). Of course, literal cockroaches don't pose a threat to humanity. The joke is an obvious reference to the role of rats in antisemetic literature, where the rats represent not just the Jewish people themselves but the 'jewish conspiracy' - meaning anything from unionization of workers to 'race-mixing', and so-on. In this film, the propaganda singles out Emily Blunt specifically because she stomped hundreds of rat-roaches. This makes her deeply uncomfortable, because she had the blood of a rat inside herself, experiencing her own dehumanization and face to bloodshed. The very first thing we see of the battle is Paxton being blown the gently caress up. From there, the troops are swung around madly, tied to dying dropship. In one key beat, two soldiers are swung directly into eachother - colliding, and presumably dying. Cruise cutting the rope, removing his helmet to get rid of the distracting radio (and so-on) all show him trying to escape the machine that he's connected to. But he never goes far enough that he gets rid of the blood inside himself. The basic symbolism of the dropship returns at the end, when Cruise takes on Paxton's role and then pilots the limping plane directly into the side of the enemy base. Smashing the plane is important. And of course they are all restored, un-smashed, in the end.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:47
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http://kevjenkins.blogspot.com/2014/06/edge-of-tomorrow_7.html A bunch of concept art from production 
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Jun 17, 2014 01:21
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 Holy poo poo I want this in wallpaper size 
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Jun 17, 2014 01:25
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I really like that in a lot of the concept art it looks like the Alpha alien has no head but rather between its shoulders an enormous gaping rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 17, 2014 01:40
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This is the sound of me sucking air through my teeth. He's not supposed to post this stuff. We have loads of concept art that gets buried unfortunately. I'll bet this guy will have to pull this down fairly quickly so right-click save-as while you can if you like it.
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Jun 17, 2014 03:10
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