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Oh no, I tried to understand the plot. That was my great failing. I paid so close attention to it, trying to give meaning to Proper Houns that had no meaning, that it actively hurt my enjoyment of the series. I was PISSED at the anime's ending because it answered none of the plot-related questions I had. I wanted to know what that Lance thing was, I wanted to know about what SEELE was up to, about these Dead Sea Scrolls and what the hell Human Instrumentality even meant. I was super-invested in the story. Then End of Evangelion answered all of this, or so it seems. Like I said, I gave up about a half-hour into the movie but people assure me that all is explained. The Dead Sea Scrolls that were written like a couple thousand years ago somehow record the history of a super-ancient civilization that created the Angels and one of these angels made humanity. I guess Young Earth Creationism is the answer in NGE because even I know enough about science and how old the human race is to understand why this makes no sense. Anyway, after EOE, I decided the anime's ending was best because the story was thoroughly unenjoyable; it was just a series of Terms being spat at you with no context or explanation for a long, long time. I won't hide the fact I didn't understand a great deal of the storyline so that is my fault and could easily be why I try to ignore the story aspect. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 15:56
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What you're talking about isn't story, it's scenery. None of it matters, except insofar as it helps the viewer get into Shinji's equally confused shoes. Which isn't to say that the "answers" don't exist, as long as you don't mind a bunch of videogame writers playing telephone with Anno's off-the-cuff replies, just that knowing them has only the faintest bearing on the actual story, which is about depression and trying to find a sense of purpose/belonging. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 16:04
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Edit: Nevermind
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Jul 17, 2014 16:08
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Sorry if I'm blunt about this but this is how I feel about most fantasy "worldbuilding" and NGE is one of the few cases where the show actively resists that kind of mechanical dissection. I mean it's named after a religious document written by at least four different authors for christ's sake, what do you expect? 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 16:12
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NikkolasKing posted:I guess Young Earth Creationism is the answer in NGE I don't know why people keeping calling it this. The way it is explained it is more akin to Panspermia with a heavy element of guided evolution. But, yeah, as Tuxedo Catfish says, it is just window dressing. Utritum fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 16:20
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Basically quit getting hung up on the poo poo that doesn't loving matter you goddamned manchild.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:22
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Oh that's not what I meant. I know about that thing you linked to from Xenogears but what I meant by saying "young earth" is because the Dead Sea Scrolls, written less than 2,000 years ago, apparently contain all the records of this ancient civilization and the genesis of humanity and the angels. That only seems to make sense to me if the Earth and humanity has only been around for a few thousand years, as opposed to something like, what, 50,000 years for humans and a few billion years for Earth?SHISHKABOB posted:Basically quit getting hung up on the poo poo that doesn't loving matter you goddamned manchild. ...I'm not hung up on it. That's why this whole thing started, by me saying I ignored the plot and just enjoyed the characters. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 16:25
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Maybe the Dead Sea Scrolls are, in fact, divinely inspired.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:27
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NikkolasKing posted:
He says after several posts containing a wall of text. Its cool, whats the problem with be hung up on it anyway. Sigh, when is the last rebuild slated for btw ?
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Jul 17, 2014 16:30
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I will be disappointed if Rebuild 4 doesn't consist entirely a live action Anno walking onto the set, flipping the bird to the audience, and walking off again. The credits will be every single death and suffering scene played in slow motion while 'We Are the Champions' plays in the background.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:32
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If there isn't some kind of "the truth is..." bit I will be supremely disappointed
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Jul 17, 2014 16:37
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All I want from Rebuild 4 is catharsis.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:56
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NikkolasKing posted:No seriously, why do people like End of Evangelion again?  x10000000000000
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Jul 17, 2014 16:58
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I liked the part where there were random clips of random things including: early animation frames from coloring with no outlines or shading where the background is not being cleared between each frame, panorama views of an alternatingly full or empty cinema, pictures of hate mail to the producer, and god knows what else was there. That is some stellar writing right there.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:09
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Sakurazuka posted:EoE is Anno loving with the fans and putting in a bunch of stuff that people said they wanted in a 'real' ending and twisting it all horribly. Actually untrue. The internet's built this narrative about EoE that's just snowballed into a myth.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:16
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Again: most of the mail Anno received about the ending of the series was positive, and the rough draft of EoE was written before the television finale aired. In fact, it was the original television finale, right up until the censors laughed them out of the room. There's also some neat stuff that got cut from EoE, including several What A Wonderful Life-esque scenes of live action Rei and Misato in a world without Shinji while his disembodied spirit watches and realizes how different things could be. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 17:19
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Again: most of the mail Anno received about the ending of the series was positive, and the rough draft of EoE was written before the television finale aired. In fact, it was the original television finale, right up until the censors laughed them out of the room. Re: the censors. Woah, really? My spotty knowledge from 10 years ago about why the TV show ended the way it did (i.e. in a very minimalist, not-actually-ending way) tells me "mostly budget." Was censorship more of an issue, or was it just a huge combination of things overall? Also, where can I find more about the stuff cut from EoE or originally planned about it? I'd really like to learn more.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:32
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Bisse posted:I liked the part where there were random clips of random things including: early animation frames from coloring with no outlines or shading where the background is not being cleared between each frame, panorama views of an alternatingly full or empty cinema, pictures of hate mail to the producer, and god knows what else was there. That is some stellar writing right there. I know. I know it let you down.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:33
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Szmitten posted:Actually untrue. The internet's built this narrative about EoE that's just snowballed into a myth. I prefer thinking that Anno just made EoE as a less obvious rehash of the subtext from episodes 25-26. For gods sake, instrumentality is described several times as death and rebirth, the mini films of the series before EoE were called death and rebirth and Shinji literally sheds his old beliefs and gains enlightenment of a new way of being(choosing his own destiny and loosing his hang ups). EoE is like that bit out of the Simpsons where the FBI are telling Homer his new witness protection name. Instead of the FBI agents, just picture Anno, instead of Homer picture the viewer. But instead of the viewer/Homer not getting he is now called mister Tompson it is that they do jot get the subtext, despite the FBI/Annos repeated prompts and obvious hints. That whole scene sums up EoE
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Jul 17, 2014 17:34
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DrPop posted:Re: the censors. Woah, really? My spotty knowledge from 10 years ago about why the TV show ended the way it did (i.e. in a very minimalist, not-actually-ending way) tells me "mostly budget." Was censorship more of an issue, or was it just a huge combination of things overall? The original cut of the ending involved a gas attack on NERV HQ. This was shortly after a for-real terrorist nerve gas attack on a Japanese subway. Upon reading the uncut script, at least one censor instantly turned to ice and shattered.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:34
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Oxxidation posted:I know. I know it let you down.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:36
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DrPop posted:Re: the censors. Woah, really? My spotty knowledge from 10 years ago about why the TV show ended the way it did (i.e. in a very minimalist, not-actually-ending way) tells me "mostly budget." Was censorship more of an issue, or was it just a huge combination of things overall? The reason the last two episodes are so minimalist is because their plans got shot down so late they didnt have time to make a proper ending. By all accounts the last two episodes would have involved a gas attack on NERV HQ, which is what set the censors off since, you know, there was a major terrorist attack in Japan around the time NGE was airing that involved sarin gas in the Tokyo subways.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:37
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Bisse posted:It did not let me down - it surpassed my expectations and, quite literally, blew my mind. Then you've been a fool to yourself.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:38
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[edit] gently caress too slow
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Jul 17, 2014 17:41
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As fun as it sounds, and even as fitting as the final product is to the idea...I really doubt anyone out there has enough hate and willpower to direct the production of a full length animated movie fueled by nothing but pure spite for the people who want to buy it. (fully expecting a laundry list of Anime movies made on nothing but spite now)
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Jul 17, 2014 17:49
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Oxxidation posted:Then you've been a fool to yourself. Man, now he'll never love again. His world is ending. 
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Jul 17, 2014 17:51
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After every one of us watches the ends of NGE and EoE, I think we all wish we could turn back time.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:02
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If I could turn back time If I could find a way I'd take back those scenes that hurt you And you'd stay If I could write without Religo-techno gobbledy-goo Then you'd love me, love me Like you used to do
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Jul 17, 2014 18:17
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DrPop posted:After every one of us watches the ends of NGE and EoE, I think we all wish we could turn back time. yeah, so i can watch it again
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Jul 17, 2014 18:22
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mr. stefan posted:The reason the last two episodes are so minimalist is because their plans got shot down so late they didnt have time to make a proper ending. By all accounts the last two episodes would have involved a gas attack on NERV HQ, which is what set the censors off since, you know, there was a major terrorist attack in Japan around the time NGE was airing that involved sarin gas in the Tokyo subways. Also untrue, it was less an issue of budget and more of time, but Anno also changed his mind and wanted to go all in on the minimalist episode 25 (episode 26 was always gonna be minimalist) and the movie was already greenlit by this point.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:38
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Intel&Sebastian posted:If I could turn back time Trent Reznor - ~If I Can't Be Yours~
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Jul 17, 2014 18:47
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Rah Xephon is about a pedophile who wants to bang the time-frozen, still-teenaged version of her highschool crush and was dating his clone for years. so he's gendo then.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:58
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:so he's gendo then. Rah-Xephon: Gendo Did Nothing Wrong
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Jul 18, 2014 05:34
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NikkolasKing posted:Oh that's not what I meant. I know about that thing you linked to from Xenogears but what I meant by saying "young earth" is because the Dead Sea Scrolls, written less than 2,000 years ago, apparently contain all the records of this ancient civilization and the genesis of humanity and the angels. That only seems to make sense to me if the Earth and humanity has only been around for a few thousand years, as opposed to something like, what, 50,000 years for humans and a few billion years for Earth? Ugh..I'm..I'm sorry to do this. Basically the Dead Sea Scrolls were a 'how to' to bring about the Human Instrumentality (breaking down individuality physically) and build the Evas the Catalyst for Human Instrumentality. That's about it. Also in a fictional show where giant "robots" exist the point where you can't suspend your belief any longer is how long ago humanity was formed? How do you enjoy fiction?! I want to help you!!  Also something written less than 2,000 years ago can contain information from earlier in time, thus making a record on it!  Anyway back to the thread: Even without the series The End of Evangelion is still one of my favourite movies.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:55
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Well why name them after a real thing? I get that Eva is full of shoehorned in SYMBOLISM but the Dead Sea Scrolls are not symbolic. They are a real thing. There's a world of difference between naming your made-up How To guide after something real and say, naming the Angels after mythological creatures. I dunno, just seems needlessly obtuse to me. Metal Gear Solid 2 is another one of those things people like to compare to Evangelion but you didn't have a cutscene with the Colonel going "mwahahaha, all is going exactly as foretold by the Declaration of Independence!" (Although I guess that wouldn't have been too out-of-place...) I don't even know why people like to compare NGE to so many things. I found a whole topic elsewhere discussing "what is the Evangelion of video games?"
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Jul 18, 2014 06:59
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I think it's handwaved away somewhere or other: the Dead Sea Scrolls we know in reality were not the complete collection in Eva's world, and that's because SEELE seized the ones saying "yo, Angels are loving terrifying, and here's Instrumentality too while you're here, I guess."
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Jul 18, 2014 07:20
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NikkolasKing posted:Well why name them after a real thing? I get that Eva is full of shoehorned in SYMBOLISM but the Dead Sea Scrolls are not symbolic. They are a real thing. There's a world of difference between naming your made-up How To guide after something real and say, naming the Angels after mythological creatures. Edit: Like it's not the best reasoning to use it's name, as everything has an end of the world conspiracy, but that's the 90's for you. jvempire fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 08:08
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NikkolasKing posted:Well why name them after a real thing? I get that Eva is full of shoehorned in SYMBOLISM but the Dead Sea Scrolls are not symbolic. They are a real thing. There's a world of difference between naming your made-up How To guide after something real and say, naming the Angels after mythological creatures. Why should they live in a city called Tokyo(-3)?! Why didn't they just make up one? Why do they talk about Lilith and Adam?? It sounds cool or interesting or fits the theme of the story according to what the writer says fits. Yes the Dead Sea scrolls are a real thing but, this is representation of them in a fictional cartoon, they are not going to be the same! When they start talking about them and you have knowledge of what they are, as soon as you hear that they're clearly different just roll with it? You. Are. Thinking too much!! Please NikkolasKing, I feel the need to find you out there in the world shake you and scream "how do you enjoy fiction, if when they talk about/use something that exists in reality differently??" The frustration of this is breaking me as a person. Robots, monsters, clones all fine, but the concept that the Dead Sea scrolls maybe different to what you know???
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Jul 18, 2014 08:24
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NikkolasKing posted:Well why name them after a real thing? I get that Eva is full of shoehorned in SYMBOLISM but the Dead Sea Scrolls are not symbolic. They are a real thing. There's a world of difference between naming your made-up How To guide after something real and say, naming the Angels after mythological creatures. Sperg much, or christian warrior? There is also liberal use of crucifixes, the enemy monsters are called Angels and are literally named after biblical angels, I could go on and on.... but, man, those Dead Sea Scrolls huh? Important stuff! To answer your questions of 'why': In FMA, there was a chapter where a character was bound to a cross before submerged (sacrificed!! according to internet neckbeard warriors) in some kind of liquid of death. When translated, the cross was censored and replaced with just a concrete slab. When the author was interviewed about the situation - why did you choose to draw a cross? Was there some deeper meaning to it? Was there a religious motif to the scene? - her answer was, verbatim: "No, I just thought it looked cool. I didn't put much thought into it." And that should be all you need to know about religious motifs in EVA.
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Jul 18, 2014 09:46
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I think I love you Bisse... Take me in your mech and take me away from 3D Pig-Ugly world where we'll write our own Dead Sea Scrolls...of Love! Or let's keep talking about animoos in this forum instead, ahem.
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Jul 18, 2014 09:53
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