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ADB wrote on his blog that the scope he gets to work with in regards to making new things in the setting is very limited when compared to Abnett, who can basically do what he wants.
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Aug 18, 2014 20:51
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I thought that might be the case. Abnett seems to get a lot of leeway in that regard, although even he has limits. Like in Titanicus, where it was clear that nothing would come of the central plot point because it would have such huge repercussions for the metaplot. Then again I'm in the minority in that I found Titanicus to be extremely disappointing overall when compared to Abnett's other works. It's been a year or two since I read it but I remember being extremely underwhelmed with how it all ended.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:31
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Titanicus is good, the problem is titans are awesome, and the thing you want to see is lots of titans fighting and doing awesome things. When more than half of the book is about some contrived plot about the Mechanichus believes and their relations with the people of the Imperium I found myself thinking all that time: "It's not bad, but man, give me more GIANT ROBOTS!" It's just like the latest Godzilla film or Pacific Rim, they aren't bad films, but if they showed more giant monsters/robots wrestling and wreaking havoc they would be better.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:39
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I'm just not a gigantic fan of Abnett. Eisenhorn/Ravenor are decent, I couldn't get into the Gaunt series. I don't mind most of his other stuff but there's usually at least a few things in his books that really get on my nerves. His wet leopard growls and especially his descriptions of Kurze in Unremembered Empire. We get it, the guy is lanky, shadowy and dark- we really don't need it repeated eleven thousand times over 5 chapters. It was bad enough reading it, when I listened to the audiobook version? It seriously felt like some type of weird psychological torture, I felt awful for the guy having to read it.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:53
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Angry Lobster posted:Titanicus is good, the problem is titans are awesome, and the thing you want to see is lots of titans fighting and doing awesome things. When more than half of the book is about some contrived plot about the Mechanichus believes and their relations with the people of the Imperium I found myself thinking all that time: "It's not bad, but man, give me more GIANT ROBOTS!" I did enjoy the National Guard types trying not to get squished, even when it distracted from rock 'em sock 'em robot action. Abnett does the best "poo poo, guys, war is hell!" stuff. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 01:34
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For some reason, a local bookstore chain has the Spanish edition of many Black Library books for very cheap (around 6 dollars each). This are the ones I've seen available: (Fantasy) - Bloodborn by Nathan Long - Reiksguard by Richard Williams - Brunner The Bounty Hunter by C.L. Werner - The Nagash Trilogy by Mike Lee - The Heldenhammer by Graham McNeill (40K) - Helsreach by ADB - Path of the Warrior by Gav Thorpe - The Killing Ground by Graham McNeill - Heroes of the Space Marines (Anthology) - Courage and Honour by Graham McNeill I know Helsreach is in the OP as a Great option, so I'll probably be getting that. How about the rest? Are there any good or at least acceptable choices?
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Aug 19, 2014 01:51
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Heroes of the Space Marines is alright. Helsreach is pretty dope. Courage and Honor and The Killing Ground are from his Ultramarines series - I've only read Courage and Honor (and the rest of the first omnibus) and they're alright at best. They've got that earlier Black Library feel which is sorta interesting, but they're generally just bolter porn.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:53
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Yeah, I really liked that aspect. It shows how all the different forces of the Imperium deal with Titans. The Guard armour, has a plan, tanks, can technically do something, but if their titan doesn't show, they're totally screwed. The top grade PDF, from the start of the book, has a crappy scanner, can make it's way around undetected for awhile, but if a titan detects them, they're totally screwed. The low grade PDF? They're literally meat shields. But then you got the ADmech. The skitarii have got all sorts of weapons to take down titans, as well as being just crazy enough to use them. Work best when they're backing up titans though. And then there's titans. It does an excellent job of showing just how badass the Titans really are, because you see all the forces the Guard consists of. And how they lose badly. Besides, it does a fantastic idea of explaining the whole Adeptus Mechanicus are different than the Imperials, the way they interact with technology, their beliefs. Before that there were the couple of archtypes, the crazy adept who will sacrifice anything for new technology, and the reliable if a little odd enginseer.
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Aug 19, 2014 02:00
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radlum posted:For some reason, a local bookstore chain has the Spanish edition of many Black Library books for very cheap (around 6 dollars each). This are the ones I've seen available:
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Aug 19, 2014 02:40
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Spuckuk posted:I can't be the only one who thought the Night Lords trilogy was kinda..lovely. The love for ADB comes for his characters and his ability to humanise something inhuman like a Space Marine. There is no real reason to root for Talos, the guy is a crazy depraved monster but at the same time, you can't help but feel for him and his legion. I mean, you find out that all he wanted was just to be a hero but he was born on the wrong world, with the wrong crowd and even with the wrong body and just as you're about to sympathise with him he goes and tortures a puppy because their Primarch was literally insane and hosed up their whole legion. The story isn't setting shattering but it gets a lot of praise for what ADB is able to do with a limited palette.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:00
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Kegslayer posted:The love for ADB comes for his characters and his ability to humanise something inhuman like a Space Marine. Eh...I don't really agree with this. Both Hyperion and Grimaldus come off as slightly autistic and mention that they don't really understand the concerns of regular people before going on to show it with their actions. Which is actually a pretty interesting way of looking at things, particularly with the Grey Knights. They're inhuman killing machines, of course they would have problems connecting to your average person. I would say though that he does a good job of differentiating the different Space Marine Chapters in terms of their motivations and goals. I particularly enjoyed the scene in Helsreach between Grimaldus and the Salamanders where Grimaldus simply cannot understand why the Salamanders would prioritize defending civilians over attacking the enemy. The way they talk past one another is really great.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:47
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Spuckuk posted:I can't be the only one who thought the Night Lords trilogy was kinda..lovely. I disagree about Talos and his crew being one-note, but I have to mostly concur. It wasn't that the writing was lovely, so much as the book made me feel like a lovely person for reading it. It was like reading a story about a very personable and often hilarious band of einsatzgruppen rampaging on the Eastern Front. Yes, I know it's silly escapist fiction, but still, Talos et al. are very evil.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:23
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Scintilla posted:Eh...I don't really agree with this. Both Hyperion and Grimaldus come off as slightly autistic and mention that they don't really understand the concerns of regular people before going on to show it with their actions. Which is actually a pretty interesting way of looking at things, particularly with the Grey Knights. They're inhuman killing machines, of course they would have problems connecting to your average person. But that's the whole point of how and why ADB writes his characters though. The in game fluff has something like 'Grey Knights are the ultimate pure and noble warriors' or 'Black Templars hate everything' which is a pretty generic one dimension character trait but ADB adds to that by showing the weaknesses and strengths of those traits and applying them to the story. Hyperion and Grimaldus, like most other Space Marines of their chapter are suppose to be slightly off since they're demigods with the emotional development of a child. ADB writes Space Wolves and Salamanders much differently because those chapters can see the bigger picture and their growth and development is arguably more balanced. His human characters are also pretty good from the Fenrisian Inqusitior to Septimus. There's great bits in his works where Talos talks about his dog or where Angron talks about tyranny and honour that really adds to their character and you see the characters themselves get the sense that something akin to their humanity is missing but they can't quite figure out what it is. Aside from Abnett and maybe Wraight, I don't think there are any other good examples of Space Marine characters written well which is probably why ADB gets all the praise for his characters. I mean at the end of the day, its pretty much just fan fiction but ADB writes it better than most.
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Aug 19, 2014 07:52
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I dunno, I liked Priad from Abnett's Brothers of the Snake.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:05
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Kegslayer posted:But that's the whole point of how and why ADB writes his characters though. The in game fluff has something like 'Grey Knights are the ultimate pure and noble warriors' or 'Black Templars hate everything' which is a pretty generic one dimension character trait but ADB adds to that by showing the weaknesses and strengths of those traits and applying them to the story. Hyperion and Grimaldus, like most other Space Marines of their chapter are suppose to be slightly off since they're demigods with the emotional development of a child. ADB writes Space Wolves and Salamanders much differently because those chapters can see the bigger picture and their growth and development is arguably more balanced. His human characters are also pretty good from the Fenrisian Inqusitior to Septimus. I'm pretty sure Angron's rant to Gulliman about Courage and Honor is one of my favorite moments in the HH books
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Aug 19, 2014 08:06
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I like the "listen to another dog barking" speech that Angron gives Russ, myself.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:27
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Kegslayer posted:But that's the whole point of how and why ADB writes his characters though. The in game fluff has something like 'Grey Knights are the ultimate pure and noble warriors' or 'Black Templars hate everything' which is a pretty generic one dimension character trait but ADB adds to that by showing the weaknesses and strengths of those traits and applying them to the story. Hyperion and Grimaldus, like most other Space Marines of their chapter are suppose to be slightly off since they're demigods with the emotional development of a child. ADB writes Space Wolves and Salamanders much differently because those chapters can see the bigger picture and their growth and development is arguably more balanced. His human characters are also pretty good from the Fenrisian Inqusitior to Septimus. That reminds me - where's that "Take a child, give it weapons, tell him he's above all concerns of morality and mortality, surround him with other children who think the same, that's basically a Space Marine" (or something in that style) fragment in?
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Aug 19, 2014 08:39
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quote:"Take a child, allow it to develop without ever understanding the frailties of human weakness, and force it to grow through the ingesting nothing but the virtues of obedience, loyalty, and combat prowess. Surround it in ceramite. Arm it with fire. Tell it that it answers to no authority beyond its equally powerful, equally unrestrained brothers. It is in ADB's Blood and Fire, which is the Grimaldus novella at the end of the Armageddon Omnibus.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:51
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Lincoln`s Wax posted:I couldn't get into the Gaunt series. Which ones did you read? Because honestly, you might as well skip ahead to Necropolis, then go back and read the first few later if you want.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:49
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I have the first omnibus and read first and only and I think most of ghostmaker. When I free up some more time, I'll give necropolis a try.
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Aug 19, 2014 12:54
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Kylaer posted:Yes, I know it's silly escapist fiction, but still, Talos et al. are very evil. He could have just done the standard GW/BL "Muahaha! I'm Chaos personified! Death to the false emperor!" and been done with it. It would have meant nothing, and you would have really empathized with Talos and his band and been like "Wow. That's really deep - you guys have had a tough time. Come over here and let's have a beer and talk about it." In writing about the skinning pits, baby killing, and other horrible things, ADB shows you that CSMs aren't some nebulous "evil" - they're straight up capital-loving-E "Evil." The stuff the Night Lords do is Nazi/concentration camp levels of Evil, and you should feel uncomfortable when reading the books.
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Aug 19, 2014 14:15
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berzerkmonkey posted:They are very evil, and that's why ADB wrote down the awful things they do - to remind you of their evil. Yeah, he doesn't make them what Abnett termed "nailing babies to their helmets" evil. They are a more realistic, functional, pragmatic evil. They don't run around killing underlings to remind you they are evil, they competently pursue evil goals. It makes them a threat, not a joke.
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Aug 19, 2014 14:58
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berzerkmonkey posted:They are very evil, and that's why ADB wrote down the awful things they do - to remind you of their evil. The fact that Talos always justified the actions and deluded himself in many ways was always unnerving as hell. Great book because of it
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Aug 19, 2014 16:26
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Fried Chicken posted:Yeah, he doesn't make them what Abnett termed "nailing babies to their helmets" evil. They are a more realistic, functional, pragmatic evil. They don't run around killing underlings to remind you they are evil, they competently pursue evil goals. It makes them a threat, not a joke. Gravitas Shortfall posted:Which ones did you read? Because honestly, you might as well skip ahead to Necropolis, then go back and read the first few later if you want.
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Aug 19, 2014 16:42
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I never thought ADB's female characters were lacking. The Inquisitor in Emperor's Gift was a bit lackluster but not actively bad, and the divided loyalty angle between Fenris and the Inquisition came across nicely. I -really- like Lotara, as a professional, brilliant commander at the top of her game who somehow matches the bloodthirst of the legion she serves in her own way, and Cyrene. Cyrene would have been so easy to botch, turned either into a wailing fanatic or an Aeris-like icon of pure pureness too good for this sinful world. Instead, she pieces her life together, has casual affairs with fleet officers, and deals with revelations of galactic important as gracefully as can be expected. I'm a bit confused with the timing of his Heresy books, though. In Betrayer, Erebus appears at the Fidelitas Lex and recalls that Calth was only weeks ago. However, the book starts over a year after the dropsite Massacre, which was in the opening shots of the Heresy and supposedly within days of the betrayal at Calth. Is there anything to account for the time discrepancy?
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Aug 19, 2014 16:49
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Sephyr posted:Is there anything to account for the time discrepancy?
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Aug 19, 2014 16:53
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SRM posted:This is the difference between lovely writers like C L Werner and ADB. In Siege of Castellax, the main character breaks a guy's hands and tells him to make the sign of the Aquila. For every second he does not make the sign of the Aquila, he lowers him a centimeter further down towards a vat of molten metal. It's amateur hour Dr. Doom malarky, and you have no reason to ever empathize with anyone. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that sounds hilarious and kind of awesome in a total gently caress the Imperium of Man and Bond Villain kind of way.
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Aug 19, 2014 16:58
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How many of the pre-Primarch Legion names do we know? There's the Dusk Guard, the War Hounds, the Luna Wolves (or was that after they got Horus) and? Also, if I thought Uzas' whole deal was kind of  , the World Eaters Legion is just a big, tragic and sad joke.EDIT: I really enjoyed the Brunner omnibus by C.L Werner, he really likes westerns and his stuff is clearly influenced by them. The Tyrant short story reminds me of a Clint Eastwood movie. Also the one with all the bounty hunters trying to get Brunner. 
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Aug 19, 2014 17:03
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Azran posted:How many of the pre-Primarch Legion names do we know? There's the Dusk Guard, the War Hounds, the Luna Wolves (or was that after they got Horus) and? Dark Angels - The First Legion Iron Hands - Storm Walkers World Eaters - War Hounds Death Guard - Dusk Raiders Sons of Horus - Luna Wolves Word Bearers - Imperial Heralds It's not clear that the other legions actually had names other than "the XIII Legion" etc. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 17:17
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AndyElusive posted:Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that sounds hilarious and kind of awesome in a total gently caress the Imperium of Man and Bond Villain kind of way.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:19
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AndyElusive posted:Maybe I'm in the minority here, but that sounds hilarious and kind of awesome in a total gently caress the Imperium of Man and Bond Villain kind of way. I know, I hate it when people cite it as a bad example - it's dark comedy done right.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:28
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Dark Angels - The First Legion Totally forgot about the Imperial Heralds. I didn't know the Dark Angels were literally called The First Legion.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:34
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Iran Hands - Storm Walkers Well, that's an interesting if simple typo. The older names of the legions are mentioned in the Forge World books, but they're still constantly referred to by their numbers. As might be expected, the Alpha Legion had a ton of names.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:03
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Safety Factor posted:Well, that's an interesting if simple typo. Autocorrect and proper nouns 
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Aug 19, 2014 18:19
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Ardent Communist posted:Yeah, I really liked that aspect. It shows how all the different forces of the Imperium deal with Titans. The Guard armour, has a plan, tanks, can technically do something, but if their titan doesn't show, they're totally screwed. The top grade PDF, from the start of the book, has a crappy scanner, can make it's way around undetected for awhile, but if a titan detects them, they're totally screwed. The low grade PDF? They're literally meat shields. The game itself does a good job of demonstrating just how ludicrously powerful the titans are. Even the smallest ones can melt large swathes of an army in a single turn of shooting, and as they get bigger the firepower gets even more extreme. There are ways to take them down without using another titan, but it's rare that large numbers of your troops/vehicles/buildings don't wind up incinerated in exchange. Of course, when they finally go down they have a tendency to explode violently and melt everything within a pretty large radius around them.
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Aug 20, 2014 06:06
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First time I ever saw a Titan used in a game it was killed by the first shot. Twin-linked Lascannon on a Land Raider that did it, but it was just a regular normal anti-tank gun. Now in Epic, that's a whole different ballgame.
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Aug 20, 2014 06:39
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Man Emperor's gift was pretty hilarious. Did the Space Wolves just decimate a grey knights / inquisitorial fleet?. Bjorn's appearance was great too.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:20
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The first chapter of the "first ever Black Library radio play" is available for free: http://www.blacklibrary.com/the-tranzia-rebelion-y368g.htmlquote:Today, we’re excited to announce the first ever Black Library radio play - The Tranzia Rebellion. Written as a collaborative piece by six of our authors, the story follows the Doom Eagles Space Marines and the Adepta Sororitas as they battle the forces of the tau, eldar and Chaos. To celebrate, and to thank you for subscribing to The Week on Wednesday, we’ve included episode one for free.
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Aug 20, 2014 19:51
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The Doom  's
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Aug 20, 2014 21:47
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I feel like Ive been waiting so long for anything Wraight/Abnett/ADB to drop, has anything good come out recently?
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Aug 21, 2014 06:06
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