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Mercrom posted:I'm losing interest in this show. It just seems to get dumber and dumber. I think you're standards are wonky if this show is an example of a dumb show. I would say this is one of the least dumb shows in a while, but there have been quite a few not dumb shows across this and last season.
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Oct 30, 2014 03:04
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The relationship between the main character and Migi and the other parasites isn't getting any less hamfisted, and the MC himself doesn't seem to develop at all. It also looks like they are going to make magic mom feelings a serious plot point somehow.
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Oct 30, 2014 03:31
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Mercrom posted:The relationship between the main character and Migi and the other parasites isn't getting any less hamfisted, What? Mercrom posted:and the MC himself doesn't seem to develop at all. What? Mercrom posted:It also looks like they are going to make magic mom feelings a serious plot point somehow. What? In the future I recommend that you pay attention to the TV shows you watch as it is necessary for both understanding and enjoyment.
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Oct 30, 2014 03:45
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Mercrom posted:The relationship between the main character and Migi and the other parasites isn't getting any less hamfisted, and the MC himself doesn't seem to develop at all. It also looks like they are going to make magic mom feelings a serious plot point somehow. Magic mom powers, yes, that is the only reason that someone could ever realize that their loved one had been replaced by a heartless abomination. On another note, I have to say that I'm really liking Shinichi's parents, considering how rare it is for an anime MC to have BOTH parents be alive, around, and supportive. This, of course, means that they're doomed, but a guy can hope, right? 
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Oct 30, 2014 03:56
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I'm amused that the dad is ALWAYS reading poo poo on his tablet in every scene he's in. The evolution of the "dad reading the paper" stereotype, I suppose.
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Oct 30, 2014 03:59
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Light Gun Man posted:I'm amused that the dad is ALWAYS reading poo poo on his tablet in every scene he's in. The evolution of the "dad reading the paper" stereotype, I suppose. I also love his laid back approach to literally everything. Your lack of caution led to your mom's hand being burned with boiling oil and forever scarred? Let me just bonk you on the head lightly and point out what you did. Mercrom posted:magic mom feelings AHAHAHAHHA 
ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 04:04
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Light Gun Man posted:I'm amused that the dad is ALWAYS reading poo poo on his tablet in every scene he's in. The evolution of the "dad reading the paper" stereotype, I suppose. Yes, quite literally. His dad is reading the news paper in many scenes that he's in in the manga. ViggyNash posted:I also love his laid back approach to literally everything. Actually I think that's a really good way of handling it, the guilt is probably both enough punishment and enough incentive to act more responsibly in the future. AVeryLargeRadish fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 04:04
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:In the future I recommend that you pay attention to the TV shows you watch as it is necessary for both understanding and enjoyment. If you have a problem with my negative impressions of the show why don't you just post your own positive impressions instead of whatever this is. dmboogie posted:Magic mom powers, yes, that is the only reason that someone could ever realize that their loved one had been replaced by a heartless abomination.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:09
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Mercrom posted:doesn't explain the main character's mom telling her son she might not be recognizing him as her son anymore. In a show that is arguably the most blatantly obvious puberty metaphor in history, you take that as a literal statement? Are you for real?
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Oct 30, 2014 04:13
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That's another good dad moment in the newest one, he's just like "did you catch him jerkin off?" and the Mom freaks out apparently having never once considered this a possible thing the 50 times she's barged into her teen son's room in 4 episodes. I kind of want him to just start using that "hey I'm trying to jerk off don't come in!"
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Oct 30, 2014 04:15
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Maybe the original Ryouko was really cheerful or timid or something, so her parasyte's harsh voice and dead-eyed reptilian stare was enough to convince her mother that it couldn't be the same person.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:22
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Mercrom posted:Can you tell me what I missed? I'm not really outraged so much as completely incredulous that you could have missed so much about a show you were supposedly watching. First off the complaint about Shinichi and Migi's relationship being "hamfisted". I'm not even sure what the complaint is here? I mean, if I had an amoral insect take over my right arm you better loving believe that relationship is gonna be loving awkward. If you are complaining about the depiction of said relationship I'm not sure what to say. I think it's been depicted very well so far, so you would need to say something more specific than "hamfisted" for me to understand what your problem is. The second complaint about the MC not developing also leaves me baffled, he is clearly developing and changing as the show goes on, it's not even all that subtle. The loss of his fear of spiders, the bursts of aggression and his general increase in confidence and poise are all clearly shown. The third and last complaint: Magic Mom Powers. Really? Seriously? Her son suddenly freaks the gently caress out every time she comes into his room, is talking to "himself" all the time, seems to be preoccupied and goes from literally jumping out of his chair at the sight of a spider to casually picking it up and letting it out the window in the space of one day and you think Magic Mom Powers are the only explanation for why she is getting weirded out by her son's new range of behaviors? This is why I wonder if you were paying any attention at all. EDIT: Oh wait, are you talking about the scene with Parasite Ryouko and her mom? I thought that one was so obvious it didn't even consider it, for explanation of that see here: Irony Be My Shield posted:Maybe the original Ryouko was really cheerful or timid or something, so her parasyte's harsh voice and dead-eyed reptilian stare was enough to convince her mother that it couldn't be the same person. Yeah, maybe the complete personality change gave it away! I mean, it's a crazy idea because the show has made no effort whatsoever to illustrate that humans and parasites think and act completely different from each other, but who knows, maybe this guy is on to something! AVeryLargeRadish fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 04:27
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Redcrimson posted:In a show that is arguably the most blatantly obvious puberty metaphor in history, you take that as a literal statement? Are you for real? But it's stupid of me to use speculation as any sort of criticism. Sometimes I just expect the dumbest plot developments for some reason.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:27
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The thing is we aren't really seen much about his personality from before so you just have to kind of assume he was an unassuming Japanese kid with normal dumb Japanese high school kid concerns and behaviors and the way we are seeing him now is contrary to those. It's also moving ahead with the action and plot instead of spending multiple episodes on setup which is nice, but means some of the characterization is going to be retroactive and show in future episodes or whatever. There is no deep character to him yet, if at all, but everyone around him says he's different than how he was before. Which he should be, as he's suddenly come under massive stress and killed a man and has to live with a major secret and all that. His relationship with Migi isn't developed yet...because it isn't developed yet. They're still feeling things out.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:32
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I'm not really outraged so much as completely incredulous that you could have missed so much about a show you were supposedly watching. By hamfisted I mean that all the moral dilemmas they face together and discuss are so unsubtle it's annoying. Back to back episodes of kids throwing rocks at kittens, Migi using half his school as a human shield, and "would you kill a pregnant woman!?" This might be fine if there was any change or nuance to the main character's response in these situations, but it's always the most obvious response. In the main character's internal dialogue this episode he still sounds like he just realized Migi doesn't give a gently caress about him or people in general.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:45
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Mercrom posted:You might be right, I forgot about the spider and I kind of dismiss the scenes where she comes into his room as just being goofy. The last one is interesting because it's a reversal. Migi, not Shinichi, is the one suggesting that killing a pregnant woman might not be OK (maybe more in the sense that he's surprised Shinichi seems to consider it OK than in the sense of considering it immoral, but still). One odd thing is that the puberty metaphor aspect is complicated by the line about Shinichi being in 12th grade. Before this episode I'd assumed he was younger than that.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:50
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I think we've seen at least a few examples of Shinichi's personality warping. For one thing he became far more assertive as we saw with his behaviour towards Satomi and those kids, and for another it seemed like he was starting to sympathize with Migi's inhuman philosophical ideas in episode 3. At this point it's unclear whether it's direct manipulation caused by having a parasyte hand or a more "mundane" psychological reaction to the extreme situations he's found himself in.
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Oct 30, 2014 04:56
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Mercrom posted:By hamfisted I mean that all the moral dilemmas they face together and discuss are so unsubtle it's annoying. Back to back episodes of kids throwing rocks at kittens That scene was not really a moral dilemma, it was meant to illustrate character development of Shinichi, you know, the bursts of aggressiveness("I'll eat you!") and increase in confidence. Mercrom posted:Migi using half his school as a human shield, and "would you kill a pregnant woman!?" That was character development on the part of Migi. Migi is slowly coming to understand that humans place inherent value in each other, so he goes from proposing the use of Shinichi's classmates as human shields to questioning whether Shinichi is willing to kill a human baby to kill a Parasite. Migi has a really vague understanding of these sorts of things because he is a completely different species and that seems pretty normal to me. Mercrom posted:This might be fine if there was any change or nuance to the main character's response in these situations, but it's always the most obvious response. In the main character's internal dialogue this episode he still sounds like he just realized Migi doesn't give a gently caress about him or people in general. I think it's pretty normal to take quite a long time to come to understand a completely alien creature's way of thinking. poo poo, I'm pretty sure my dog has a better grasp of human social dynamics than Migi does. I mean, look at how long it can take different groups of humans to understand each other well enough to just coexist peacefully. People have been killing each other over minor differences in thought and plain old ignorance for the whole of human history and we're the same drat species! AVeryLargeRadish fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 05:11
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Silver2195 posted:One odd thing is that the puberty metaphor aspect is complicated by the line about Shinichi being in 12th grade. Before this episode I'd assumed he was younger than that. Huh, I didn't even think about that. Is that an adaptation change or is he the same age in the manga? Either way, I think 12th grade is squarely on the adolescence/adulthood cusp so it still works.
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Oct 30, 2014 05:36
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:That scene was not really a moral dilemma, it was meant to illustrate character development of Shinichi, you know, the bursts of aggressiveness("I'll eat you!") and increase in confidence. AVeryLargeRadish posted:That was character development on the part of Migi. Migi is slowly coming to understand that humans place inherent value in each other, so he goes from proposing the use of Shinichi's classmates as human shields to questioning whether Shinichi is willing to kill a human baby to kill a Parasite. Migi has a really vague understanding of these sorts of things because he is a completely different species, that seems pretty normal to me. AVeryLargeRadish posted:I think it's pretty normal to take quite a long time to come to understand a completely alien creature's way of thinking. poo poo, I'm pretty sure my dog has a better grasp of human social dynamics than Migi does. I mean, look at how long it can take different groups of humans to understand each other well enough to just coexist peacefully. People have been killing each other over minor differences in thought and plain old ignorance for the whole of human history and we're the same drat species!
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Oct 30, 2014 05:50
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Mercrom posted:You are right. If it isn't just voiced curiosity or a practical consideration of his resolve it could mean that Migi, if not empathetic towards other humans, at least empathizes somewhat with Shinichi. That's a really unsubtle thing to put in such an unsubtle show though, which makes it harder to accept. I think this episode showed that while Shinichi is changing Migi is changing as well. Not only did he hold Shinichi back from attacking Ryoko, which could be seen as just a self preservation move, but he also joked with Shinichi about testing if he could replace his head at this point.
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Oct 30, 2014 07:25
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Redcrimson posted:Huh, I didn't even think about that. Is that an adaptation change or is he the same age in the manga? Either way, I think 12th grade is squarely on the adolescence/adulthood cusp so it still works. In the original, Shinichi and his buddies are all in their first year of high school. Dunno where that falls on the American schooling curve.
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Oct 30, 2014 10:06
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Thanks to a link earlier in this topic all I can think of whenever migi moves, is an asian girl beatboxing. Thank you for that. More specifically about this episode though, I love this show's animation. It's not always the best, but they tend to pay enough detail that it makes me happy. Like when Shinichi stabs the dude with the table leg, they actually remembered to show the cap popping off from the blood filling it up. A small detail to enjoy on my part, but it still made me happy.
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Oct 30, 2014 10:23
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The cap popping off is actually from the manga as well if memory serves, I was waiting for it to happen and was happy when it did. I think the only difference in that fight I noticed was the leg being a smooth cut in the show and more of a gnarled twisted off point in the manga, but that is super minor. It is a good fuckin scene, basically.
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Oct 30, 2014 12:14
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Where are the gifs of MigiDog 
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Oct 30, 2014 14:39
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Mercrom posted:But then the scene doesn't work. The viewer has to assume that in the past Shinichi would do nothing. It's also not clear if the confidence really comes from character development or if it just stems from having something more powerful than a gun in his hands at the time.
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Oct 30, 2014 15:46
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Mercrom posted:The relationship between the main character and Migi and the other parasites isn't getting any less hamfisted, and the MC himself doesn't seem to develop at all. It also looks like they are going to make magic mom feelings a serious plot point somehow. I hate when manga people say ~just keep watching~ but the comic actually has one of the better character arcs for a protagonist MANGA SPOILERS where he slowly becomes kinda of an rear end in a top hat with ptsd from fighting crazy space monsters 
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Oct 30, 2014 15:56
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dmboogie posted:Magic mom powers, yes, that is the only reason that someone could ever realize that their loved one had been replaced by a heartless abomination. Irony Be My Shield posted:Maybe the original Ryouko was really cheerful or timid or something, so her parasyte's harsh voice and dead-eyed reptilian stare was enough to convince her mother that it couldn't be the same person. AVeryLargeRadish posted:Yeah, maybe the complete personality change gave it away! I mean, it's a crazy idea because the show has made no effort whatsoever to illustrate that humans and parasites think and act completely different from each other, but who knows, maybe this guy is on to something! While I wouldn't go so far as to call it "magic mom powers", I think the original point was valid insofar as that scene seemed excessively short-handed. I assume that the world this show takes place in is a completely normal/non-magical/non-fantastical analog to the real world (with the exception of the parasytes which the mom doesn't know about). Given that, would anyone ever come to the conclusion that someone they know has been replaced by a duplicate? I mean, if your loved one started acting weird you may think they were on drugs or accidentally hit a kid with their car or had a psychotic break or something else but your speculation would still be limited to the realm of possibility. It would never occur to anyone that it was an entirely different person who looked identical and had somehow replaced the original person. No one would ever make that leap of logic, especially not inside 30 seconds and after exchanging only a glance and a few words. Would she know something was wrong? Sure, but that's a far cry from immediately trying to call the police on the suspicion that her daughter went all "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".
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Oct 30, 2014 16:30
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Man, I'm rereading the manga and it's still great. I was surprised by how much ground the anime's covered in just 4 episodes; I remember the manga being a lot longer than it apparently is.
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Oct 30, 2014 16:47
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She might have thought it was some drug induced thing at first, but the parasyte's completely unnatural reaction to the accusation (which kindof screamed "oh, you realized") made her panic.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:01
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organism posted:While I wouldn't go so far as to call it "magic mom powers", I think the original point was valid insofar as that scene seemed excessively short-handed. Actually that is something that can really happen. It's most obvious in people who have been afflicted with a certain type of brain damage that impairs the part of the brain that connects memories and recognition but it can happen in people without any brain damage too. The best example is uncanny valley effect where something is very close to looking like a living human but "off" in some very subtle way that rings all sorts of alarm bells in your brain. I would assume that all sorts of things were "off" about Parasite Ryouko, things like tone of voice, manner of speech and body language. The most off putting was probably the body language, body language is mostly subconscious and because of that it is very hard to change, imitate or control but at the same time it is very important for recognition, probably for the same reasons.
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Oct 30, 2014 17:31
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organism posted:I assume that the world this show takes place in is a completely normal/non-magical/non-fantastical analog to the real world (with the exception of the parasytes which the mom doesn't know about). Given that, would anyone ever come to the conclusion that someone they know has been replaced by a duplicate? What we don't see is that Ryoko's mother has a history of paranoid delusions. The real Ryoko got that accusation like, every two months or so. 
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Oct 30, 2014 18:08
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Actually that is something that can really happen. It's most obvious in people who have been afflicted with a certain type of brain damage that impairs the part of the brain that connects memories and recognition but it can happen in people without any brain damage too. The best example is uncanny valley effect where something is very close to looking like a living human but "off" in some very subtle way that rings all sorts of alarm bells in your brain. I would assume that all sorts of things were "off" about Parasite Ryouko, things like tone of voice, manner of speech and body language. The most off putting was probably the body language, body language is mostly subconscious and because of that it is very hard to change, imitate or control but at the same time it is very important for recognition, probably for the same reasons. Also, those dead, beady little eyes. Those are a fairly clear 'run for the hills this lady is not human' indicator, even without the added impetus of intimately knowing the person she's supposed to be imitating.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:17
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Also considering that 'animal instinct' is a big thing in the series (note: sad that they missed out the lion bit from the manga) it is more than likely a part of the reason Ryouko's mum freaked out.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:27
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I'm really enjoying this show so far, I'd heard good things about the manga but never read it and now I understand why. I'm assuming (episode 4 spoilers plus speculation) Tamiya not fighting Shinichi behind the school is because he's being "changed" somehow, either physically or mentally, by Migi being attached to him, and she wants to see how things progress. Which, again, goes to show how parasites aren't purely logical creatures, despite them saying the opposite. It would be more logical for Tamiya to kill Shinichi there and then, before he (maybe) "evolves" into someone (or something) that can fight her off, but she's curious about this development. Also this episode, along with the one with the parasite that cut off his own arm (episode two I think), makes it pretty clear that parasites can "join up" with each other in a single body, and it would be a waste of a plot point if it doesn't come into play somewhere down the line. Though I wonder how that would work. How would they make decisions? By consensus, or it's like "And I'll form the head!" and that one parasites rules over the others?
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Oct 30, 2014 22:35
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I need to end my habit of formulating things I don't like in really dismissive ways. The reason I didn't like those elements in the episode was because their intention seemed to be to exaggerate and mystify maternal instinct. The plot development I was fearing because I'm a pessimist was that the maternal instinct is somehow so powerful, overshadowing even the instinct to not eat everyone around you, that it can make an inhuman parasite care for their host's baby. Something that makes a lot more sense is a plot development around the parasite's own ability to breed and not become extinct. Migi expressed confusion about why humans care for members of their own species when they eat other species. This indicates that Migi doesn't really comprehend survival on more than an individual level, and that that parasite species may not be a product of breeding or evolution. While it doesn't really make sense that they would from what Migi told us, it might make them question where they come from and how they are supposed to survive in the future.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:41
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Mikl posted:I'm really enjoying this show so far, I'd heard good things about the manga but never read it and now I understand why. That's not illogic. Logic isn't what sets your goals, it's how you pursue your goals, a machine you feed inputs into. Ryoko is a scientist, driven by curiosity about humanity and the parasites. Everything she's done has been in service of that (except possibly killing A). Choosing to further observe a unique specimen behaving in an unexpected manner is a logical pursuit of her goals.
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Oct 30, 2014 23:13
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For most humans scientific curiosity is a tool, not a goal. It's not weird to assume Ryoko just finds curiosity beneficial for survival, though the opposite might also be true.
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Oct 30, 2014 23:56
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Mikl posted:Though I wonder how that would work. How would they make decisions? By consensus, or it's like "And I'll form the head!" and that one parasites rules over the others?
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Oct 31, 2014 00:47
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Detached Migi was weirdly cute.
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