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Kyte posted:Do you read moon? Because Vol 9 isn't translated. If so then do us all a favor and at least give the Cliff's Notes. I don't, but the spoilers have been out for a while. The original webnovel was easy to read though, and it was adapted into the LN. The big thing I can remember was the explanation of the Geniuses which they just skipped over in the episode. And figure to factor heavily into the rest of the story.
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Jan 10, 2015 23:31
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Maybe they'll go more in depth later. I really doubt the entire season will be spent on Scrub Party, they can't stretch things out that much. They've already been shuffling around certain events, after all.
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Jan 10, 2015 23:35
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Vengarr posted:Yeah it was total bullshit and pretty much confirms my suspicion that they're just going through the motions, knowing that they're probably never getting a third season. There was a lot of world-building and characterization that got tossed in favor of just hitting all the major points. Where can you read the book and how good are the translations?
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Jan 10, 2015 23:42
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They might be thinking of animating a proper conclusion to the East-West feud rather than leaving it hanging for a never-happening 3rd season. The next novel is supposed to be all about that, so it's pretty likely Mamare already has it planned out.A jargogle posted:Where can you read the book and how good are the translations? The original webnovel was on Mamare's site, I have to say, being able to just copy/paste sentences you don't get into Translation Aggregator makes reading Japanese a lot more enjoyable. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 10, 2015 |
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Jan 10, 2015 23:43
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You know, the more I think about it the more convinced this was a preview episode in the vein of Ep 1. First there's the episode structure itself: It's clearly set weeks to months after the previous episode, since there's no way that train was finished so fast and (novel spoiler) Nureha rides it, which conflicts with the followup content where Dariella teams up with the Scrub Party. Plus, KR is already back and his little sidequest is over. Second, the purpose of the episode itself. Kanami's party has been highly anticipated, and it'd make sense to show a teaser at the beginning of S2 to build up hype. Moreover, if we consider the development of the LN, Book 9 had a 'teaser' in the form of the web side story before Book 7 or 8 (I forget which) came out. This episode would parallel that. In addition, it sets up certain concepts that should become relevant with the Scrub Party arc. Finally and most importantly, Book 9 has or will come out very soon. It'd make a lot of sense if they made an episode to tease the story in order to boost its sales. Then, when Scrub Party's arc is over and Book 9 has accumulated a fair number of sales, you can show the Kanami arc in detail without stealing potential readers from the LN. This would account for the highlight reel nature of the ep, but done less clumsily than Ep 1.
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Jan 11, 2015 00:11
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Razzled posted:First the "Cowabunga!" and then "My God!" had me laughing hard, hilarious. Froggynardo is now my favorite character. He's also the first named character to unlock Platinum Games mode.
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Jan 11, 2015 00:29
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Kyte posted:You know, the more I think about it the more convinced this was a preview episode in the vein of Ep 1. This is very plausible actually. Still disappointing though! It would also explain why they changed a bunch of things, like going to KR talking with Kazuhiko rather than to his dragon/raid boss partner to frame the story. They also skipped right over his Overskill. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 00:34
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If/when we get an S3, there's definitely room to expand on Kanami's party and how they got together and such. As it stands now, however, there's already a plotted sequence of events with at minimum, a general guideline from beginning to end. It may still change (if Shirobako's taught us anything), but the window for changing it tightening very fast so it's likely that the final episode has already been story boarded and is mostly set in stone.
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Jan 11, 2015 00:34
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pandaK posted:He's also the first named character to unlock Platinum Games mode. I noticed this too. Would be nice if they dug a little further into the "mechanics vs real world" comparisons. I'm still curious why some game aspects are still enforced, like skill cooldown, but other things aren't like the ability to cancel and combo skills that they couldn't previously.
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Jan 11, 2015 02:16
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User0015 posted:I noticed this too. Would be nice if they dug a little further into the "mechanics vs real world" comparisons. I'm still curious why some game aspects are still enforced, like skill cooldown, but other things aren't like the ability to cancel and combo skills that they couldn't previously. You know how skills are now activated by motion, right? He activates Skill 1 via a left hand attack, then Skill 2 with a right hand attack, then Skill 1 (whose cooldown already ended) again by attacking left-handed and so on. The cooldown is still there, but he can work around it this way, and since he's basically 'blending' animations it can combo better than in the game where each skill would need to wait until the previous skill's animation was complete. <Parallel Plot> Leonardo's Overskill. Created from observing Kanami's peculiar combat style. Built around <Deadly Dance> where attack power increases with continuous attacks. Between the cooldown of 1 second, during the 'extra swinging' motions of the left hand, an 'attack' is executed creating an alternating double attack. (Example: R.hand Deadly Dance - L.hand Skill A → R.hand Deadly Dance - L.hand Skill B → R.hand Deadly Dance - L.hand Skill A, etc) It is possible to use the after-motions of <Deadly Dance> to begin the motions for the strongest attack of all 12 classes, <Assassinate>. With this "degree of freedom" in motions used to activate special abilities, the <Assassin>'s maximum output is exceeded. Kanami has a similar trick by tinkering with the motion-based activation. <Compression Combo> Kanami's Overskill. Shrinks recast time of attack combos drastically. Activates skills by going through motions manually, compressing both the movements and several skills together. With this method new combos can be achieved that wasn't possible before the <Catastrophe>. Results in huge damage. Kyte fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 02:40
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Kyte posted:You know how skills are now activated by motion, right? When did this get explained in the show? I swear to god I must be missing poo poo left and right but I promise, I'm trying to pay attention. 
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Jan 11, 2015 03:33
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It was kind of a point in season 1, really. I mean part of why they had difficulty in combat was because they tried using the menus. So they had to learn how to use them in other ways, hence motion.
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Jan 11, 2015 03:37
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Drifter posted:When did this get explained in the show? I swear to god I must be missing poo poo left and right but I promise, I'm trying to pay attention. It was implied way back in S1E1, the whole "don't bother with the menus just move" thing. Given how similar it is to standard animation shorthands I don't fault you for not catching it.
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Jan 11, 2015 03:52
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It's referenced 10x as many times in the LNs, so LN readers will think of it immediately, while it felt like an afterthought in the show.
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Jan 11, 2015 03:57
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Dude imagine if the anime adapted every single time the LN restated the same piece of info once again.
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Jan 11, 2015 04:56
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Kyte posted:Dude imagine if the anime adapted every single time the LN restated the same piece of info once again. I do. Every time they do an overly lingering shot of Akatsuki looking pensive I say aloud to nobody at all: " This petite girl with her black hair fluttering in the wind was Akatsuki." "But Akatsuki's new body was really petite, shorter than Shiroe's shoulders, maybe not even 150cm." "Shiroe felt the petite young girl in front of him was slowly merging with the 'Akatsuki' he knew." "Her petite body had amazing speed, you would have trouble tracking her movements as she rushed towards the enemies." "The petite young girl standing beside Shiroe was also wearing a beautiful dress." "Her neatly combed hair, her petite body in a dress. " " The petite beautiful young girl that was like a sparrow, Akatsuki." "Akatsuki asked Shiroe while holding a piece of bread with her petite mouth." "Her petite body was covered by dark and low profile clothes, but her slim body still had very alluring curves." " The cute and petite Akatsuki was viewed with curiosity in the beginning." WE GET IT MOTHERFUCKER SHE IS SMALL.
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Jan 11, 2015 08:04
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Ahh, I remember that scene now that you guys brought it up. I guess it was just one of the world rules I internalized, accepted, and then forgot about. That said, Keronardo's special move made no sense to me watching it. All of a sudden he just starts yelling out his special move name and cuts spider/girl the gently caress up. Okay...? It makes sense when you talk abotu it above, but gently caress if I knew why it was working while I was watching it. Is this basically stuff you'd have to read the manga to know? And the Genius ordinary monsters I guess made sense thinking about it - they're not bosses, but they're super-rares type of things. To me at least. Is there more to them? Toshimo posted:"Her petite body was covered by dark and low profile clothes, but her slim body still had very alluring curves."
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Jan 11, 2015 08:08
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Drifter posted:Ahh, I remember that scene now that you guys brought it up. I guess it was just one of the world rules I internalized, accepted, and then forgot about. Frog dude's stuff made sense to me given the incredibly boring and long segments about skill movement and poo poo in the past. Also I know a thing or two about fighting games, so skill cancelling and comboing was pretty familiar. I've never read anything for this series though
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Jan 11, 2015 08:10
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Razzled posted:Frog dude's stuff made sense to me given the incredibly boring and long segments about skill movement and poo poo in the past. Also I know a thing or two about fighting games, so skill cancelling and comboing was pretty familiar. I've never read anything for this series though I also know about skill canceling and comboing - his monologue about that was something I understood quite well,, but I was thinking more like that spider/girl just had a constant skill swapping out damage to other creatures and didn't get why the ninja dude could kill her in a single pass. It seemed like there was a lot of random creatures she could pass the damage on to. Perhaps she just wasn't very powerful, relative to him, or something, I don't know. I just didn't get what his super-special power did, specifically. Unless that was what he was practicing up on that plateau in the middle of the episode?
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Jan 11, 2015 08:14
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Drifter posted:I also know about skill canceling and comboing - his monologue about that was something I understood quite well,, but I was thinking more like that spider/girl just had a constant skill swapping out damage to other creatures and didn't get why the ninja dude could kill her in a single pass. It seemed like there was a lot of random creatures she could pass the damage on to. Perhaps she just wasn't very powerful, relative to him, or something, I don't know. After rewatching it, it seems that she couldn't do it fast enough so he took advantage of that and timed his attacks to have one trigger her to start swapping, and then another followup to strike her while she was in the middle of swapping.
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Jan 11, 2015 08:25
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Overall the ep was very light in details and explanations so I'm hoping my theory is true and we get a proper arc later on.
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Jan 11, 2015 08:40
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Drifter posted:And the Genius ordinary monsters I guess made sense thinking about it - they're not bosses, but they're super-rares type of things. To me at least. Is there more to them? Paps, the Genius monster with the crazy tentacles, seems to know something about the world. He refers to Elias as a 'survivor', and that the People of the Land are just personality software. To me it implies that they have knowledge of the nature of the new Elder Tale world, and they probably killed off the big NPCs from the various orders (Izumi Knights, etc.). I also feel like it's implied that they're the "third party" Shiroe thinks exists. Could be possible that they're the cause of the Apocalypse?
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Jan 11, 2015 09:48
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My only hope is that Leonardo becomes Akatsuki's mentor and teaches her the ways of the frog ninja.
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Jan 11, 2015 09:49
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Drifter posted:I also know about skill canceling and comboing - his monologue about that was something I understood quite well,, but I was thinking more like that spider/girl just had a constant skill swapping out damage to other creatures and didn't get why the ninja dude could kill her in a single pass. It seemed like there was a lot of random creatures she could pass the damage on to. Perhaps she just wasn't very powerful, relative to him, or something, I don't know. My impression was that in Elder Tale, like most MMOs, there is a GCD. Keronardo managed to bypass that limit, so Creepy Girl was only able to swap damage with another monster once per GCD, but Keronardo attacked her faster than she could use her ability because he can ignore the GCD. I would assume Creepy Girl's ability worked like a Bladeturn and not a PWS style shield, though that would make her vulnerable to multi-hit attacks and attacks from multiple people at the same time.
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Jan 11, 2015 11:41
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Toshimo posted:I do. Every time they do an overly lingering shot of Akatsuki looking pensive I say aloud to nobody at all: Wait, this is seriously what the novel is like? This is the standard for a high quality light novel that gets made into an anime? Why?? 
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Jan 11, 2015 15:19
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There's probably no such thing as a high-quality light novel.
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Jan 11, 2015 15:22
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Well the "high-quality" ones tend to have good ideas, it's just that the writing at a technical level is always awful. Same goes for visual novels. I don't really understand why this is, to be honest. You could say that it's just  but I don't find that too convincing. Maybe there aren't good editors or something idk
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Jan 11, 2015 15:48
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DrSunshine posted:Wait, this is seriously what the novel is like? This is the standard for a high quality light novel that gets made into an anime? Why?? Light novels are garbage written for horrible teenage otaku who refuse to read anything unless its anime. They also tend to be failed anime script attempts.
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Jan 11, 2015 16:26
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Huh. I guess I'd gotten the impression that they were just regular YA novels with anime style drawings. For one thing, the only Light Novel series I've ever read was Yen Press's translation of Spice & Wolf, so I guess my impression had been colored by that experience. But man, if those cringeworthy sentences pass for what is average, I don't want to see what's considered bad!
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Jan 11, 2015 16:33
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I'm not sure if the Log Horizon books are actually classified as light novels though. They do have anime-style illustrations, but the books have a different form factor than other form factors and seem more difficult language-wise. Also, the Japanese Wikipedia calls them 小説, while other LNs say ライトノベル. On the other hand, they appear in the Oricon LN charts 
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Jan 11, 2015 16:40
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There's also the "fan translations of LNs are cringeworthy" caveat.
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Jan 11, 2015 16:58
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DrSunshine posted:Huh. I guess I'd gotten the impression that they were just regular YA novels with anime style drawings. For one thing, the only Light Novel series I've ever read was Yen Press's translation of Spice & Wolf, so I guess my impression had been colored by that experience. But man, if those cringeworthy sentences pass for what is average, I don't want to see what's considered bad! YA novels are literal drivel too though, I mean holy hell read something like the Hunger Games series and experience new lows in writing and editing. I'm sure these being fan translations adds to the awkward and stilted structure and grammar at times, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it is simply mediocre writers happening to output something someone knew would be a popular enough setting/story to publish and merchandise.
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Jan 11, 2015 17:23
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Rodyle posted:There's also the "fan translations of LNs are cringeworthy" caveat. Fan translations of chinese translations of LNs even. But it's not just the translation aspect. I read the first two novels in japanese, and while I don't remember being bothered by excessive mentions of Akatsuki's size, there definitely were an annoying amount of reminders that the food didn't have any taste....like every single time food was mentioned in any way. And then once they discovered how cooking works he switched to mentioning that food used to not have any taste but now tastes like it's supposed to...
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Jan 11, 2015 17:25
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It's practically useless to try to argue that something isn't a light novel. The definition is simply too vague. Log Horizon is published in hardcover (apparently), so it doesn't fall under the regular "light novel format" (which is paperback of a certain size), but it's fantasy and aimed at youngsters and has manga style covers, so it may as well be considered a light novel. Amazon even categorizes it under their "light novel" label. Plenty of other light novels are published in more expensive editions (Monogatari, Dainihon Samurai Girl, Overlord, etc). Of course, their light novelness is also debatable, futile as it may be. Just don't judge prose by the fan translations. Things that sound like poo poo in one language may actually feel decent in another. Rhythm and all that.
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Jan 11, 2015 17:59
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darkgray posted:Just don't judge prose by the fan translations. Things that sound like poo poo in one language may actually feel decent in another. Rhythm and all that. Regardless, what's up with the Japanese server getting some content the rest of the servers didn't get? I didn't really understand what that was and why it's significant. I think I read that the whole Ninja Turtle thing was watered-down for copyright reasons. Sad, really. I think my favorite Turtle is Donatello, though. Did he say he wanted to eat pizza too? Kind of cool to see them running around with a legendary hero, level 100, NPC turned sentient. I'd be asking all kinds of questions about his origin. I get the idea these level 100 NPC legendaries might be some kind of artifacts from the beta version of the game. I don't know why but I do. I'm not even sure if their origin is important.
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Jan 11, 2015 19:16
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Dan7el posted:Regardless, what's up with the Japanese server getting some content the rest of the servers didn't get? I didn't really understand what that was and why it's significant. Odd way to roll things out maybe, but since Japan was the first country to pass into the release date (because time zones) their server was the first one to get the new content activated. And apparently the new content was what caused the Apocalypse or something?
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Jan 11, 2015 19:25
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nielsm posted:Odd way to roll things out maybe, but since Japan was the first country to pass into the release date (because time zones) their server was the first one to get the new content activated. Yeah, basically this. To be fair I have seen stuff like games getting different unlock times on steam based on where you are in the world. Plus doing the release in stages lets you get a preview of how your other servers are likely to gently caress up before they go live. You get to watch the JPN servers die horribly but then you know how the servers for the US and Europe and China and so on are likely to fail and can hopefully get something in place before they go live.
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Jan 11, 2015 19:35
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Dan7el posted:I have wondered whether it's the fan translations that are complete poo poo or if the actual native-language "light novels" themselves are really as bad as the translations make them. I'm not talking about awkward wording and sloppy translation and grammar, I'm talking about exactly what has been pointed out here. The place that hosts a lot of light novel translations has a rule preventing editors from being editors. They're more like glorified spell checkers, because they're not allowed to make changes the translators disagree with. That alone is a significant problem but when you add in how most series have like half a dozen or more different translators and a similar number of editors, then never mind having prose that's not horse poo poo, you're not even going to have consistent character voices.
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Jan 11, 2015 19:47
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Dan7el posted:I have wondered whether it's the fan translations that are complete poo poo or if the actual native-language "light novels" themselves are really as bad as the translations make them. I'm not talking about awkward wording and sloppy translation and grammar, I'm talking about exactly what has been pointed out here. Fan translations are abysmal. I've enjoyed a lot of light novels that seem like unreadable garbage in the "English" found on translation sites. It's also disturbingly common to see works being translated "on the fly", where someone will just go through the work and translate sentence by sentence the first time they see them on the page. Admittedly this approach was also promoted in a textbook on professional translation, so maybe it's great, but ideally you'd get through a book first as a reader, so you can get an idea of different character voices, and what types of details are important to set up future revelations, etc. Another issue is that light novelists (and mangaka, at least) often resort to a set of very established and stereotypical speech patterns, which turn out to be completely invisible in translation. There are ways to write dialogue in Japanese that absolutely and unmistakably identifies the speaker as a boy, a man, a girl, a woman, an old man, an old lady, a servant, a lord, a king, etc, etc, in literally a single line. To Japanese readers, it's just so common that they'll instantly dump the character into a certain category and give it no more thought, but there's (usually) no equivalent in English, so as a translator you either need to be really clever, or add explanatory bits of description simply to make it possible for the reader to separate who's talking when. I can't even speak to how much of this comes across in fan translation, because I generally read two lines and close the tab in disgust, but you can see how it might pose a problem, especially in a community that leans toward the "pure" and super-literal. Then there's the issue of Western vs Japanese sensibilities. I've often finished a book that I found to have vivid, fresh prose, only to discover Amazon reviews where Japanese readers bash the author for being so rough and unrefined. Needless to say, the complete opposite also happens. While it's weird for me to represent myself as the entire Western world, I think there's at least some offset in the kind of writing I appreciate, versus the type someone growing up in Japan is prone to like. Either way it makes it hard for me to say for sure that some example is bad and something else good. And finally, I'm Swedish and never read a novel in English until I was 13 or something, so it's possible my views on good prose are skewed even from yours. I do know how important a translation can be, because I remember how dismal and unfunny Pratchett was in Swedish release, while they're some of my favourite books in the original English. And I also somehow liked Tolkien better in Swedish, since his English text is wooden and dull as dishwater.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:18
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darkgray posted:
Any examples off the top of your head? I've been in the same situation where I read a fan translation as well, and have no idea if the translation is garbage, or the original work. Partly why I just watch things instead, since I can at least hear tone and inflection even if I have no idea what they're saying without subtitles.
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Jan 11, 2015 20:23
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