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hopterque posted:Can't wait for some eldar lady with a huge rear end to try and seduce Captain Titus and he just screams "KILL THE ALIEN" and blows her head off. One can dream.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:22
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hopterque posted:Bioware picked up the rights to make the next one I think, so that sure might be a thing. The cliffhanger was all for nought though since while the game itself was fun it had no interesting characters left by the end. Titus was painfully generic and he had no character arc to speak of. On top of that I couldn't imagine a more boring legion to make a game about than the ultra marines. Oh and what was the deal with the bolt pistol + bolter and storm bolter being so plain bad in that game? I don't want to play around with fancy pew pew weapons. I wanted to just use plain ol bolters but they were just so bad.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:12
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Zephyrine posted:Titus was painfully generic and he had no character arc to speak of. This is pretty much what I assume all Space Marines are like
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Apr 24, 2015 18:17
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Azhais posted:This is pretty much what I assume all Space Marines are like Granted but that didn't stop his Sergeant colleague in the same game from having a degree of personality. Make him star in the sequel.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:41
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Zephyrine posted:Granted but that didn't stop his Sergeant colleague in the same game from having a degree of personality. Bit late for that, unless its one of those `sequels` that's actually a prequel. Personally I suspect Titus Genericus was like that to appeal to the largest possible demographic, third and first person shooters aren't genres known for compelling and distinct hero's*. Though curiously they do usually have some pretty interesting villains. Mind you its not like the Ultramarines had a rich vein of charisma for the devs to mine so it didn't help. *The most obvious exception is Mass Effect, but even there most of the praise is for Fem Shep, Male Shepard is quite bland.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:56
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Baka-nin posted:Bit late for that, unless its one of those `sequels` that's actually a prequel. Turns out it was just a fleshwound. He got better.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:10
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Cythereal posted:Also a huge part of the Ultramarines hate comes from the last Codex: Space Marines, or the one before that, the one written by Matt Ward, for the tabletop game. Ward's really good at designing an army from a gameplay perspective, but the fluff he writes is atrocious. He was writing lines about how basically every modern Astartes chapter envies the Ultramarines and tries to model themselves after them, regard Guilliman as such as their "spiritual liege," etc and generally making them ridiculously virtuous noble paladins who never lose.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:14
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My problem with the ultramarine is they lack a distinct theme. Sort of like how the emperors children's only theme was having the word "perfect" as a prefix for every action. "And so he swung his sword in a perfect arc, delivering a perfect blow to the enemy and securing perfect victory to the perfect legion before striking the perfect victory pose in his perfect armour"
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Apr 24, 2015 19:27
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This is the part I don't get. Why do they need a theme, does the Viking theme of the Space Wolves really make them that much more interesting? There is so much going on in 40K that even the "generic" chapter has plenty to go on. In the hands of the right author the mere explanations as to why Ultramar has managed to flourish as it has would be interesting. Space Marines are usually their most interesting when they have normal humans to interact with/protect/etc. I suppose I like the Ultramarines specifically because out of all the factions in 40K theme seem the least insane and dogmatic in a galaxy of madness, that is their theme, not being total assholes. Anyway, on talk of the Codex I am going to make a way to serious post than a discussion about fictional space armies deserves, but here goes. When it comes to the two different pictures we get of the Ultramarines being rulesmongers when compared with the idea that the Codex is more of a set of guidelines, these two things actually fit pretty well, especially if you have ever spent time in military culture. Militaries are these strange beasts, who by their nature are often more conservative, what with their focus on discipline, tradition, and the idea that following orders is paramount to victory on the battlefield. These things are often in great opposition to free thought and thinking outside the box. This being said, history has proven that slavish devotion to a particular set of military stratagems usually turns out bad in the long run, and this isn't something the great military thinkers down the path of history have missed. In fact free-thought, adapting to an ever changing environment, and thinking outside the box are the kind of things will often find in The Art of War, Clausewitz, and others. Some text like to frame this as the Art vs. Science of warfare. In a more practical sense the art portion is all your War Theory, and the Science is instructions and orders that outline in detail how to: set up camp, orchestrate an ambush, arrange supply lines, etc. Both are vital but sometime individuals tend to focus more on one than the other. Most of your war theory is the stuff that officers and NCOs are expected to read, because slavish devotion to the order starts become a problem when your leaders lack any sort of creativity. In fact, anyone who has spent time in the military has likely run into the military version of the "rules-lawyer" this is the mother fucker who constantly says things like "well? what does the order say?" in opposition to all reason and sanity to do things in a more efficient way. You would be amazed how people like can bring things to screeching halt, especially in a garrison environment. Anyway, basically what I am saying is in the case of Space Marine(the video game), Leandros's constant bitching about how "The Codex does not support this action" would be him reading some cookie cutter reading on how to conduct a specific action, which likely doesn't match whatever scenario they are in. Titus being a Captain knows better, but honestly the best response at that point would be "What does the Codex say about the chain of command? shutup" and that would be the end of it. This all being said, if the Ultramarines having been winning campaigns for 10,000 years based off these writings, then clearly there is some good advice in there. Also, the Empereror's Children theme is rape...happy now?
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Apr 25, 2015 03:46
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Zephyrine posted:Oh and what was the deal with the bolt pistol + bolter and storm bolter being so plain bad in that game? I don't want to play around with fancy pew pew weapons. I wanted to just use plain ol bolters but they were just so bad. video games. Though yeah I do wish the bolter was more like the AK in Left 4 Dead. One hit kills on body shots for basic mooks. Maybe two hits later on since boyz are tough.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:46
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Uroboros posted:This is the part I don't get. Why do they need a theme, does the Viking theme of the Space Wolves really make them that much more interesting? There is so much going on in 40K that even the "generic" chapter has plenty to go on. In the hands of the right author the mere explanations as to why Ultramar has managed to flourish as it has would be interesting. Space Marines are usually their most interesting when they have normal humans to interact with/protect/etc. I suppose I like the Ultramarines specifically because out of all the factions in 40K theme seem the least insane and dogmatic in a galaxy of madness, that is their theme, not being total assholes.
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Apr 25, 2015 13:53
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The Codex as De Re Militaria is something I hadn't really thought of before and makes perfect sense, though I'd imagine it is with a healthy dose of the Art of War thrown in. The simple rules for what to do in any specific situation, how to form ranks and how to deal with specific situations (if the enemy are mindless hordes surging towards you adopt X formation and use Y weapon combination, reserving the capacity to extract forces if they reach Z distance from the formation. For appropriate extraction technique c.f. Section Sigma Alpha, sub-section Aurelia). As has been said it makes sense that it's something that would be introduced to initiates and Scouts as primarily a list of orders to be memorised, while for sergeants or officers it's more a philosophical text where they seek out the themes and ideas behind those basic orders. It focusing on military things though does explain how there is such wild 'cultural' diversity between the successor chapters. What's not so clear is how explicit that might be, did Guilliman rely on passing that understanding through individual education and teaching apprenticeship style or did he write his thoughts down? The former would make sense in the setting but based on what we've seen of him Roboute doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd be happy to keep important ideas in people's heads rather than written down nor the sort of guy to think there was value in ideas being communicated person to person versus as many people learning it as possible. Of course I don't know if the Codex Astartes was every 'finished' as far as he was concerned so maybe that could be an in-lore explanation. But all that is also the reason so many Ultramarine stories are poo poo, poo poo, poo poo. Basically Leandros (who is excusable as a newly promoted scout who hasn't advanced beyone the rules and regulations part) is the model of 99% of Ultramarines commanders save Marneus Calgar and possibly the main character of the book. Which doesn't make any sense at all.
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Apr 25, 2015 14:51
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MrNemo posted:What's not so clear is how explicit that might be, did Guilliman rely on passing that understanding through individual education and teaching apprenticeship style or did he write his thoughts down? The former would make sense in the setting but based on what we've seen of him Roboute doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd be happy to keep important ideas in people's heads rather than written down nor the sort of guy to think there was value in ideas being communicated person to person versus as many people learning it as possible. Of course I don't know if the Codex Astartes was every 'finished' as far as he was concerned so maybe that could be an in-lore explanation. Guilliman was definitely writing things down according to Know No Fear, leading the Ultramarines more as a brilliant strategist and mastermind than a heroic figure on the front line. The book mentions that Guilliman was constantly writing papers on military strategy and working on creating a unified book for all the Imperium's armies.
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Apr 25, 2015 15:16
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Mange Mite posted:video games. Really? I remember the vanilla bolter being pretty effective, it was my primary weapon.
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Apr 25, 2015 15:47
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Uroboros posted:This is the part I don't get. Why do they need a theme, does the Viking theme of the Space Wolves really make them that much more interesting? Yes it really does. Viking space marines are many time more interesting than the ponsmarines of Ultramar. Lets talk about the elephant in the room. The Blood Angels. Vampire space marines later lead by a man named Dante. And their primarch gets a tattoo of a tear on his cheek. I assume that when the Blood Angels were conceived. The term "emo" hadn't caught on yet.
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Apr 25, 2015 16:17
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Zephyrine posted:Yes it really does. Viking space marines are many time more interesting than the ponsmarines of Ultramar. Mephiston's armor is based pretty explicitly on Gary Oldman's in Bram Stoker's Dracula too. They're just space goths.
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Apr 25, 2015 16:20
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SRM posted:Mephiston's armor is based pretty explicitly on Gary Oldman's in Bram Stoker's Dracula too. They're just space goths. I feel a spark of brilliance coming. A Blood Angel A Space Wolf They're both in love with the same girl. Instant best seller.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:01
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Zephyrine posted:I feel a spark of brilliance coming. Even better.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:16
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Zephyrine posted:I feel a spark of brilliance coming. 
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Apr 25, 2015 17:28
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Things not to do when designing a book cover: spoil the ending by depicting a character who only shows up in the last chapter and the exact moment when he solves the overarching conflict of the book. Thanks a lot, Unremembered Empire.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:47
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Pretty sure the space marines game were going to be a trilogy where the second he was assigned to a inquisitional kill team, the third was going to be Titus falling to chaos. His warp resistance being the thing that has the inquisition turn on him or radicalizing him.
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Apr 25, 2015 18:24
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Grognan posted:Pretty sure the space marines game were going to be a trilogy where the second he was assigned to a inquisitional kill team, the third was going to be Titus falling to chaos. His warp resistance being the thing that has the inquisition turn on him or radicalizing him. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canceled-Warhammer-Space-Marine-2-and-3-Get-Detailed-by-Game-Director-393106.shtml quote:“I had some big plans for Titus,” van Lierop told PAR. “The second part of his story was to focus on a ‘Titus Unleashed’ plot—basically there were forces arrayed against him that would see his loyalty to the Adeptus Astartes pushed to its limit, and his reaction would be to kind of ‘go rogue,’ and we'd see a different Titus, not quite as in control as we saw him in Space Marine. He would be kicked out as a consequence—exiled, which would basically be a death sentence for him.” Perhaps things are better this way.
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Apr 25, 2015 18:31
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So whats this I hear about the Fantasy setting "ending"? I read the Gotrek/Felix books when I was younger, and although I'm sure they're terrible, I feel kinda invested in that storyline.
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Apr 25, 2015 19:36
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Shockeh posted:The point is that M'Shen doesn't kill Curze because she's especially The Best, or lucky, or the plan is good. She kills Curze precisely because he permits her to, all to prove a point. If you retconned it so a team of Assassins get there, and they do so on their own merits, you're devalueing Curze massively. His whole shtick was proving that he used terror and the pain of death as a punishment for disobedience, and the Emperor sending an assassin to kill him is literally no different than how Curze maintained his compliances.
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Apr 25, 2015 20:06
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Zephyrine posted:I feel a spark of brilliance coming.
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Apr 25, 2015 20:08
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Schizotek posted:So whats this I hear about the Fantasy setting "ending"? I read the Gotrek/Felix books when I was younger, and although I'm sure they're terrible, I feel kinda invested in that storyline. There's some wacky 'End Times' mega arc going through at the moment where the existing WHFB setting is being torn up in a massive apocalyptic war between Nagash and the Chaos Powers and everyone else you can think of. Nobody really knows outside of GW where they're going with it but the assumption is the setting is being rebooted in some form for 9th Edition (if there is a 9th Edition, its also possible that GW will drop the tabletop game and farm the IP out to video game publishers completely since it accounts for such a small portion of model sales).
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Apr 25, 2015 22:19
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Just made myself some free time and was also wondering if I should start on The End Times novels? I've never read anything by Josh Reynolds so I'm wondering if they're going to be any good or as hit and miss as the Horus Heresy.
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Apr 25, 2015 23:10
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You won't get a lot out of End Times if you don't already know most of the backstory and principal actors, but they're okay if you do. End Times is a retelling of the old Storm of Chaos plot, only instead of Archaon being pushed back and them being able to tell new stories instead literally everyone is pulling out all of their biggest guns/spells/embodiments of magic and throwing down with the chaos gods. Basically every faction's arcs get resolved in some way or another. They lose, Chaos wins, Middenheim falls, a new chaos rift is opened, the four gods walk on the earth, everyone dies and the world is consumed, game over. Skaven and Slann escape into realms in the warp or space. The elf gods' plans for a refuge beyond the world fail, because Lileath was a huge screwup. Sigmar (incarnated in Karl Franz) and Archaon are last seen vanishing into the warp, wrestling over Ghal Maraz. Four voices laugh. Later, an unknown character who was once a mortal falls out of the sky onto a new world to begin the cycle anew.
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Apr 26, 2015 00:49
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bunnyofdoom posted:There "Man-Love Thursday" comes to the 40k universe? Probably sell at least 10k books.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:08
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wiegieman posted:You won't get a lot out of End Times if you don't already know most of the backstory and principal actors, but they're okay if you do. Well I knew who like, half those people were. Also cool that the Skaven get to live to scheme another day. But yeah googling around people are acting like they're destroying the entire franchise forever instead of hitting an obvious lore reset button. Might actually be feasible to build myself an army now.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:38
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Schizotek posted:Well I knew who like, half those people were. Also cool that the Skaven get to live to scheme another day. But yeah googling around people are acting like they're destroying the entire franchise forever instead of hitting an obvious lore reset button. Might actually be feasible to build myself an army now. Yeah, this is basically the same as a summer event for comic books. They're trying to clear model inventory by allowing more flexible army comps and writing some small rule supplements, backed up by overpriced fluff. I cannot wait for the Tiko to gently caress this business model in the rear end.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:59
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wiegieman posted:Yeah, this is basically the same as a summer event for comic books. They're trying to clear model inventory by allowing more flexible army comps and writing some small rule supplements, backed up by overpriced fluff. I really want to like Warhammer, but everything about it is so shamelessly overpriced that I really can't make a place for it in my life. I mean gently caress, even random Black Library books are coming in at comedy prices these days. EDIT: aha gently caress I just went and looked over the prices on a lark and it's like $150 for the rulebook + one codex before you even start buying models. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 04:16
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Voyager I posted:I really want to like Warhammer, but everything about it is so shamelessly overpriced that I really can't make a place for it in my life. I mean gently caress, even random Black Library books are coming in at comedy prices these days. Yeah for sure. I've read my fair share of these books and I got it in my head one day to give the actual game a try, but once I priced everything out I would have had to spend somewhere around 800 dollars or so in order to be competitive (assuming I didn't just eBay everything, I guess). That is just a crazy amount of money to drop before I even start to play.
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Apr 26, 2015 05:59
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wiegieman posted:You won't get a lot out of End Times if you don't already know most of the backstory and principal actors, but they're okay if you do. Sounds good, I used to play fantasy and had a chaos army so I'm relatively familiar with the backstory and the principal actors. I'm just wondering if the novels are going to be any good because the Black Library has a tendency to be hit or miss.
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Apr 26, 2015 09:11
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I can tell you for a fact that The Return of Nagash book was excellent. I've only just started The Fall of Altdorf, so I can't comment on it.
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Apr 26, 2015 18:58
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berzerkmonkey posted:I can tell you for a fact that The Return of Nagash book was excellent. I've only just started The Fall of Altdorf, so I can't comment on it. Thanks, in that case I'll start with The Return of Nagash and see how I go. I'll then probably have to resist the temptation to buy a whole Vampire Counts army afterwards.
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Apr 26, 2015 19:25
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Zephyrine posted:Yes it really does. Viking space marines are many time more interesting than the ponsmarines of Ultramar. They're space vampires who love making beautiful artworks while not caring about sex and occasionally going apeshit at the sheer tragedy of it all and murderin' folk. They are literally a joke about Anne Rice and why she is a lovely author. ETA: kind of operating on the "takes one to know one" principle, but whatever works 
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Apr 27, 2015 03:39
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I think the last time I saw someone use emo as an insult was 2008. It's been totally usurped by hipster now.
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Apr 27, 2015 03:43
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Voyager I posted:I really want to like Warhammer, but everything about it is so shamelessly overpriced that I really can't make a place for it in my life. I mean gently caress, even random Black Library books are coming in at comedy prices these days. Yeah, I still haven't read ADB's Talon of Horus because gently caress me I am not paying $25 for an ebook.
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Apr 27, 2015 03:46
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Khizan posted:Yeah, I still haven't read ADB's Talon of Horus because gently caress me I am not paying $25 for an ebook.
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Apr 27, 2015 12:47
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