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evangelion was never nihilistic and is even less so in rebuild given how massively focused on sin/guilt it is
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May 3, 2015 09:31
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Hideaki Anno posted:It comes from a Christian word meaning 'Gospel' and it's supposed to bring blessings. It has has some Greek roots. I chose the name because it sounds complicated. source
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May 3, 2015 09:39
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Raxivace posted:With the idea of sacrifice at least, I think it depends how liberally you use the word. I would consider the killing of the Angels a kind of ritualistic sacrifice (Just dressed up in traditional mecha vs. monster combat), though I would understand if others don't agree with that particular reading. most of the religious imagery in the show isn't meaningless or completely unrelated to its original context, but it is reversed or corrupted. a crucifix normally signifies rebirth, but angels manifest one when they're destroyed forever. misato wears a(n admittedly somewhat ambiguous) christian icon to signify her inability to forgive. the kabbalistic tree of life, which should indicate a joyous union beyond suffering and ego, instead indicates a horrifying void that shinji retreats from. the dead sea scrolls, which in real life are mostly excerpts from and commentary on the bible (i.e. stories about how the world began and instructions on how to live righteously) become a recipe for the apocalypse. anno knowing what "evangelion" means and assigning it to a robot that brings pain and misery to its pilot and the end of the world to everyone else fits rather neatly into that pattern as well  e: i should apologize, for all that i try to shoot down misattributions it was Kazuya Tsurumaki who disavowed any Christian meaning to eva, not Sadamoto. (and even then if you read the complete interview he's basically being silly and flippant about everything) quote:Is there any particular reason why so many Gainax series feature very anxious, unhappy young male protagonists with no parents? quote:Do you enjoy confusing people? Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 10:36 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 09:56
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basically "did Anno mean something explicitly Christian?" is a much less interesting question than "what does Evangelion say about questions that also arise in Christianity" (or in Kabbalah, or in Aum Shinrikyo for that matter) now that i actually read it this is amazing. it's from Anno making a guest appearance on a TV show where celebrities go back to their hometown to teach a class of elementary school kids for a day. quote:The kids are adorable, of course. One proudly announces he's an otaku. Most of them are Eva fans. Before Anno arrives, they are to draw and write what they think he's like, based on their thoughts from watching Eva. quote:"What does Rei like?" Otaku boy asks. "I haven't thought about it," is Anno's curt reply. quote:"Do you like the anime you make?" Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 10:55 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 10:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:now that i actually read it this is amazing. it's from Anno making a guest appearance on a TV show where celebrities go back to their hometown to teach a class of elementary school kids for a day. The entire thing is on Youtube, and it's as adorable as it sounds. You can see what a massive inspiration Anno's hometown was for the series, though. The school looks basically identical, and there's a few shots of him on a catwalk above an abandoned mall gazing out at a decaying industrial landscape.
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May 3, 2015 14:25
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Raxivace posted:They said that they didn't have a "specific Christian meaning" or something along those lines when it came to the religious symbolism, not that it was meaningless. Didn't Anno just choose the cross imagery because it looked cool and it all snowballed from there? No literally no symbolism, because symbolism needs to be intended.
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May 7, 2015 20:02
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Everything in Evangelion has no meaning; it's a miracle we got a seemingly coherent show at all considering the production consisted of long sessions of doing LSD and either splattering paint onto cells Jackson Pollock-style or the staff members painting with the brushes held in their anuses.
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May 7, 2015 20:14
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32MB OF ESRAM posted:Didn't Anno just choose the cross imagery because it looked cool and it all snowballed from there? No literally no symbolism, because symbolism needs to be intended. It's Tsurumaki that said that, and I think the quote is fairly misunderstood. Kazuya Tsurumaki posted:There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice I think the key points here are the following: 1) They wanted the show to have a religious theme (!!!) 2) They picked Christian symbolism because it was mysterious/looked cool 3) There is no actual Christian meaning to the show (Tsurumaki's opinion) 4) They might have rethought the use of Christian symbols, if they known about it getting distributed in the U.S. and Europe I'm generally of the opinion that comments from the creators of works need to be taken with a massive grain of salt as it is (Otherwise you get people arguing that The Birth of a Nation isn't racist just because D.W. Griffith and Lillian Gish says so), but none of this says that Anno just put a bunch of stuff into his show without even thinking about it or researching it at all. It's entirely likely (And I'd say plausible even) that they at least did some basic research on what these things meant after deciding on using Christian symbols, even if they didn't use them to spread a "Christian meaning". EDIT: Also read Tuxedo Catfish's recent posts in this thread. They're some good poo poo. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 21:50
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Raxivace posted:It's Tsurumaki that said that, and I think the quote is fairly misunderstood. I mean cmon:  Zero symbolism here, no sir. After watching the series then reading that quote it's a real head scratcher how they managed to do all that by coincidence...
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May 7, 2015 22:20
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I mean, I don't think that Eva works if you're expecting it to be some deep gnostic treatise on the nature of christ or a simple christ allegory with Shinji as Jesus, but like Catfish said, its preoccupation with dealing with past sins/mistakes and determining how one should live or define one's own self worth in the aftermath certainly isn't the sort of thing that's alien to Christian philosophy. At least, not to mine.
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May 7, 2015 22:46
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^Yeah, I think we're all basically saying something along that line. Shinji is really only comparable to Jesus in EoE where he actually does end up on the cross (Unless I'm remembering the symbol wrong and it's actually the Tree of Life or something the MP Evas trap him and EVA-01 in), though like with what Catfish was saying about inversions, Shinji doesn't fulfill the typical role of saving humanity by sacrificing himself. Instead he sacrifices his sense of "self" while damning the surviving humans on the planet to bring about Instrumentality (Whether he realizes that's what he's doing or not), and then poo poo really hits the fan there. And then EVA-01 becomes a goddess or something and y'all know the rest. I guess Shinji is most comparable to Scorsese's conflicted version of Jesus in The Last Temptation of Christ, though even he learns to reject his own illusory world/desires to fulfill the typical Jesus narrative in that film. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 23:06 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 22:56
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It's funny, 'cos to an inhabitant of the Eva fictional universe, all this symbolism has been completely denatured of mystic significance. The Latin cross isn't a symbol of sun, fire, or sacrifice - it's just a property of an explosion, just shrapnel. Stigmata is a documented symptom of "mental contamination". When the weird Lovecraftian abominations make a complete mockery of physics, Ritsuko only freaks out because one of her papers has just been debunked. You get the sense that scrawled on a blackboard somewhere in NERV HQ is a complex mathematical equation that dispassionately describes the human soul; in the series there's at least one exchange that can be paraphrased as: "Oh, I guess the kid didn't psychologically fuse with the giant cyborg hellbeast. gently caress it; reboot; try again."
Wachter fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 20:26
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That's probably my favourite thing about Evangelion, it's a world where the metaphysical has been rendered into a maths equation.
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May 8, 2015 20:28
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I really need to see The Last Temptation of Christ already. My parents took me to a showing in theaters when I was a baby, but obviously I don't remember anything.
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May 8, 2015 20:28
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I really need to see The Last Temptation of Christ already. My parents took me to a showing in theaters when I was a baby, but obviously I don't remember anything. That's, uh, an interesting film to take a baby to lol. It's a really good film though. Criterion has a pretty excellent Blu-Ray of it out. The original release of it back in the 1980's was pretty whacky too; there's a great book about it called Hollywood Under Siege. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 20:40
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Lorenz did Second Impact, meteorites can't change global weather patterns
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May 8, 2015 20:44
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Wachter posted:It's funny, 'cos to an inhabitant of the Eva fictional universe, all this symbolism has been completely denatured of mystic significance. The Latin cross isn't a symbol of sun, fire, or sacrifice - it's just a property of an explosion, just shrapnel. Stigmata is a documented symptom of "mental contamination". When the weird Lovecraftian abominations make a complete mockery of physics, Ritsuko only freaks out because one of her papers has just been debunked. You get the sense that scrawled on a blackboard somewhere in NERV HQ is a complex mathematical equation that dispassionately describes the human soul; in the series there's at least one exchange that can be paraphrased as: "Oh, I guess the kid didn't psychologically fuse with the giant cyborg hellbeast. gently caress it; reboot; try again." Exactly. Part of the fun of Eva isn't just that's it's mad science, it's abomination science! Technological blasphemies! there is a god, AND WE CAN CLONE HIM!
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May 8, 2015 21:00
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Robotnik Nudes posted:Exactly. Part of the fun of Eva isn't just that's it's mad science, it's abomination science! Technological blasphemies! there is a god, AND WE CAN CLONE HIM! *75 attempts later* "Okay gently caress this, just patch it together with robotics and get it breathing." *20 more attempts later* "We can force a heartbeat but it's permanently comatose." "Then grab that calculator and add soul plus abomination and figure it the gently caress out!"
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May 8, 2015 21:08
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For all the Grand Guignol and overt psychedelic horror, all the really grim, mind-shattering poo poo happens off screen or is only hinted at obliquely. You can only really guess at the process of building/growing an EVA, and the mass grave of the malformed Unit-00 abortions is one of the most unsettling parts of the whole show. I also found the flashback to Yui's contact experiment in 3.33 troubling, despite the fact that you only see the first few seconds of it, and Yui's was supposed to have been the successful one.
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May 8, 2015 23:29
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Might be time to watch 3.33 again, I was waiting for the bluray release but LOL
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May 9, 2015 04:40
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I caved and imported the BD from China. It has english subs so I guess it's worth it
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May 9, 2015 06:33
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Wachter posted:For all the Grand Guignol and overt psychedelic horror, all the really grim, mind-shattering poo poo happens off screen or is only hinted at obliquely. You can only really guess at the process of building/growing an EVA, and the mass grave of the malformed Unit-00 abortions is one of the most unsettling parts of the whole show. I also found the flashback to Yui's contact experiment in 3.33 troubling, despite the fact that you only see the first few seconds of it, and Yui's was supposed to have been the successful one. Rei growing up in a concrete box in the depths of Nerv HQ. 
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May 10, 2015 04:56
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It should be in the op. 
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May 10, 2015 19:50
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Happy Mother's Day!!! http://youtu.be/ocmzDO-vBR8
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May 10, 2015 20:20
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May 10, 2015 23:57
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You know it.
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May 11, 2015 02:32
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I finally finished reading the last two volumes of Sadamoto's Eva manga. Last chapter was a bit weak what with the reset button or whatever it was but I still prefer the whole thing over the anime by a lot.
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May 24, 2015 11:01
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I've recently finished watching this series for the first time (the first time I ever tried, I only got as far as episode 13 or so). I've written a review, it's a bit of a long post though, so I apologise in advance.quote:Well, a friend of mine and I have been watching (rewatching for him) Evangelion in the past few weeks. I’ve never finished watching this show, so I was curious to finally experience what seems to stand astride the world of Japanese cartoon fandom like a towering colossus. After having finished all twenty six episodes of the original show, the End of Evangelion feature film, and some of the Rebuild films, I can finally sum up my opinion of it all. And, in one sentence it is:
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May 25, 2015 06:54
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Alright.
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May 25, 2015 07:01
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That review is awful. EDIT: Like I don't even have a response to someone that says the characters had no motivation or didn't change across the show. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 07:28 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 07:14
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Some people like Eva, others don't.
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May 25, 2015 07:15
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Zeruel posted:Some people like Eva, others don't.
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May 25, 2015 07:16
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Zeruel posted:Some people like Eva, others don't know any better.
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May 25, 2015 07:22
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Why is is that spergs always have to write loving thesis papers whenever they review something? Is it just when they end up liking something less than everyone else seems to so they feel they have to prove their opinion is the correct one? gently caress, no one gives a poo poo what you think, like what you like, dislike what you dislike, there's never a need to write something as long and pretentious as that garbage.
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May 25, 2015 07:49
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Given that it's Eva he's writing about, the review is actually really short.
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May 25, 2015 07:54
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Epi Lepi posted:Why is is that spergs always have to write loving thesis papers whenever they review something? Is it just when they end up liking something less than everyone else seems to so they feel they have to prove their opinion is the correct one? gently caress, no one gives a poo poo what you think, like what you like, dislike what you dislike, there's never a need to write something as long and pretentious as that garbage. Why post anything ever?
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May 25, 2015 07:55
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DrSunshine posted:the same sophomoric pseudo-philosophical stream of consciousness that aspires towards the erudite but instead collapses into gauche sophistry. 
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May 25, 2015 08:36
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DrSunshine posted:I've recently finished watching this series for the first time (the first time I ever tried, I only got as far as episode 13 or so). I've written a review. 
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May 25, 2015 08:50
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Eva is good/Eva is bad. Relax, your all alive after all, so you will always have a chance to poo poo post. As long as Eva, sperging and trolling exist, everything will be ok.
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May 25, 2015 08:53
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Eva is (not) good. FTFY
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May 25, 2015 09:25
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