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Finished.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:59
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Fog Tripper posted:Going for a rererereread. After I finish Mazalon or whatever it's called series. I really want to like that series but it just seems like such a clusterfuck.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:14
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Jon Connington wants to take another castle after griffin's roost "vastly larger, and impregnable" is he going to take the eyrie? In winter? When it's abandoned? I guess? e: Yeah I just got to that page sorry for the bump. I thought he wasn't going to go back to clarify. Krinkle fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 01:21
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Krinkle posted:Jon Connington wants to take another castle after griffin's roost "vastly larger, and impregnable" is he going to take the eyrie? In winter? When it's abandoned? I guess? Storm's End.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:37
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Krinkle posted:Jon Connington wants to take another castle after griffin's roost "vastly larger, and impregnable" is he going to take the eyrie? In winter? When it's abandoned? I guess? all of that Eyrie worldbuilding better lead up to something s'all I'm saying
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Sep 22, 2015 01:54
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I thought it'd be a real interesting development if he goes and steals the eyrie while littlefinger is out making a match for Sansa and now whoa the lord protector of the vale is homeless what does littlefinger do?
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Sep 22, 2015 02:03
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it'd be cool for someone to take the Eyrie but he's definitely talking about Storm's End, and they go on to discuss the logistics of taking Storm's End e: pretty sure one of the sample arianne chapters for winds said he'd already taken storm's end at that point Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 02:11
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The "Griffin Reborn" chapter states explicitly he's talking about Storm's End a whole buncha times:quote:Connington gave the plump captain-general a cool look. This man is no Blackheart, no Bittersteel, no Maelys. He would wait until all seven hells were frozen if he could rather than risk another bout of blisters. "We did not cross half the world to wait. Our best chance is to strike hard and fast, before King's Landing knows who we are. I mean to take Storm's End. A nigh-impregnable stronghold, and Stannis Baratheon's last foothold in the south. Once taken, it will give us a secure fastness to which we may retreat at need, and winning it will prove our strength." http://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Storm%27s+End&scope%5B%5D=adwd&povs%5B%5D=Jon+Connington
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Sep 22, 2015 03:14
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The literal instant I read "storms end" I came back to cancel my question but that guy already said storms end so I edited my post to say nevermind, I got up to the part [where they say storms end] so nobody else needs to chime in agreeing it's storm's end.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:30
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Krinkle posted:The literal instant I read "storms end" I came back to cancel my question but that guy already said storms end so I edited my post to say nevermind, I got up to the part [where they say storms end] so nobody else needs to chime in agreeing it's storm's end. I think he means to take Storm's End.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:39
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I think he was talking about taking Syrio.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:13
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He's clearly talking about taking Castamere.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:09
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Evil Fluffy posted:I really want to like that series but it just seems like such a clusterfuck. I am trying to take it slow. The thread on it convinced me to trudge my way through it with the promise that things begin to tie together and mesh. But it has the familiar (looking at YOU absolute fucker) "toss a hundred new characters at you rapid fire-like" style I am used to now.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:21
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Holy poo poo got a hot new contender for possible hooded man who almost stabs theon: Sandor Clegand has 1) been to winterfell and could identify theon by sight 2)would want to see if arya was indeed getting married to a bolton 3)would wear a hood up on his cloak because his face is recognizable as hell 4)would definitely loving laugh at a maimed hand and say alright dude have fun with that. Problems against: 1)has started his redemptive arc and shouldn't be stabbing people 2)has a limp now, is huge, was not described by theon as having a limp or being huge 3)it is hard to get through the neck 4)he was most recently seen digging graves and not on quests to stab people a huge goddamn distance away.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:04
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Krinkle posted:Holy poo poo got a hot new contender for possible hooded man who almost stabs theon: Don't forget #5: being in Winterfell would further delay Cleganebowl.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:09
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Alright and I got back up to the pink letter and stabbing part of jon's last chapter. Who wrote the dang letter? Who has all the knowledge that we know is true, and would believe all the knowledge that we know is false? If Ramsay really beat stannis then he'd also have reek and his bride back and wouldn't need to threaten jon into returning them. If he knows about mance then mance or the ladies have been flayed into talking already giving him much of the information. Melisandre already knows most of the things in the letter but forcing a prophecy by faking a note is dumb. I googled it because I couldn't sleep and these westeros.org people think manderly rode out to find stannis, faked a fight with him, rode back with his handed over sword to fake stannis's death. That is something I didn't consider. Rereading it, manderly had 3 of his 4 chins cut but since he was ordered to go get stannis it sounds likely that they thought the maester could stitch up his fat neck and put him to work. I joked about him being too fat to behead but this time around I think it's a solid assumption. However, Stannis wouldn't even say he loved his brother because he hates lies so much so I have no idea why he'd fake his death or, as these dinguses at westeros.org are suggesting, write the letter to goad jon into helping him. Boo to the stannis theories. It's tempting to say that everyone was fine with jon's bullshit but then he announced he was going south, breaking his vows, and that's the last straw so out come the caeser knives, et tu marshy, but his direwolf was hackled up and foreshadowing this betrayal all chapter. He thought it was about the pig but it specifically snapped at the guys who later would stab him. They were going to stab him no matter what. The first guy to do it makes a "hey man whoa what happened, it wasn't me" gesture. Wun Wun is murdering a guy who stabbed him for no apparent reason to create a disturbance. These two things make Mel look suspicious as it seems kinda magical compulsion? Oh poo poo. Oh gently caress. No. Oh gently caress! Haha! Patrick wants to marry Val. Jon Snow just told him this chapter "you have to steal a wildling woman or they don't respect you". Val has a giant for a guard, she lives upstairs, he sleeps in the tower. Patrick went to steal her, stepped on wun wun in the dark, roar, oh gently caress, stab, slam slam slam. Holy poo poo. That never occured to me the last time I read this in '11. No magic compulsion required there. Jesus christ jon you hosed up by putting ideas in his head. I don't understand the behaviour of the guy who stabbed jon first, then. You can't stab someone's throat and expect "whoops my bad" to help.
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Sep 22, 2015 09:27
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Mance wrote the latter. Probably.
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Sep 22, 2015 10:39
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Krinkle posted:I don't understand the behaviour of the guy who stabbed jon first, then. You can't stab someone's throat and expect "whoops my bad" to help. He was convinced to do it by others, not magic compulsion but social compulsion from his brothers. When the moment actually comes, it turns out to be hard to stab a guy you know and probably respect, so his reaction is kind of conflicted and he instinctively goes into a "hey man, it wasn't my idea" posture. Not everyone in the Watch is a hardcore murder machine, this could be the first time this guy actually tried to seriously harm another human being. Also yes, Mance writing the letter makes the most sense.
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Sep 22, 2015 11:14
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Bowen Marsh is not a bad guy, he was just always a very conservative member of the Night's Watch old guardia; He stabs Jon cause Jon is determined to violate the Night's Watch thousand years old commitment to political neutrality but he knows that Jon ultimately means well and he considers Jon to be a good but severely misguided kid. He's not a mustache twirling caricature like Alliser Thorne in the show, he's a human being who has a hard time 'doing the right thing' and stabbing a sixteen year old kid who's proven himself to be a brave and resourceful member of the night's watch. Also apologizing when you kill someone is a bit of a call back to the Sorrowful Men of Qarth.
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Sep 22, 2015 11:27
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I always wondered what a Sorrowful Man would do if killing a dude took more than one stab. Would he go "I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, sooooorryyyyy"?
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Sep 22, 2015 11:35
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Mance wrote the latter. The key line in the letter I feel is "I have his magic sword" which is just oddly placed and doesn't seem very Ramsey like. Mance saw the sword when he was being Rattleshirt but not many other people have seen the sword. Mance not being involved at all in the escape attempt leads me to believe he was up to something else and that he wrote the letter. Also wasn't Mance the hooded dude that was killing people at Winterfell? That's what I assumed on my re-read anyway.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:54
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Mance was getting his ladies to try to seduce theon into a dark corner for months to no avail. I don't think he'd bump into theon and be shocked at all that he exists. If Ramsay caught mance and flayed him he'd know pretty much everything Mance would know, i.e. there's a magic sword. Krinkle fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 18:08
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Mance is 100% not the hooded guy, Theon is just done talking to Mance in the great hall when Mance is ordered to play cheerful songs and goes to the dais and Theon leaves the hall and runs into the hooded figure. So it can't possibly be mance which also suggests that Mance and his ladies really weren't involved in the murders (if the hooded figure is indeed the culprit). There's some cause to think Big Walder (the short one) was involved in the murders but I don't really recall any of them short of the fact that Big Walder seems to hate his cousin and isn't too impressed with the poo poo Ramsay is up to.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:13
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His ladies kind of admitted to the yellow dick murder. They just denied killing small walder. (who was big)
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Sep 22, 2015 18:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Mance is 100% not the hooded guy, Theon is just done talking to Mance in the great hall when Mance is ordered to play cheerful songs and goes to the dais and Theon leaves the hall and runs into the hooded figure. So it can't possibly be mance which also suggests that Mance and his ladies really weren't involved in the murders (if the hooded figure is indeed the culprit). There's some cause to think Big Walder (the short one) was involved in the murders but I don't really recall any of them short of the fact that Big Walder seems to hate his cousin and isn't too impressed with the poo poo Ramsay is up to. Big Walder definitely killed Little Walder but probably wasn't involved in the other murders. LW's death and BW going "uh I think I saw him walking with some Manderly men" is just what caused a whole shitstorm to erupt in the castle.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:16
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Someone find me reasons to think big walder killed small walder because I keep hearing that but I don't remember any hints to that. E: I bet if I read the murder chapter of that huge discussion thing I found, where that one page was only about the hooded man, there'd be some there. As I recall, small walder who was big was the one that was like ramsay. He'd be the first to kinslay, like ramsay. So until I finish this article which he says is just a dumb mystery with no satisfying tie-ins to the overarching plot, I won't know why everyone thinks its the other way around. Krinkle fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 18:17
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Krinkle posted:Someone find me reasons to think big walder killed small walder because I keep hearing that but I don't remember any hints to that. I haven't read it in awhile but there are comments that Little Walder is becoming Ramsey's protege basically and helping him with some of his torturing, while meanwhile Theon notices that Big Walder is kinder to him but is also looking more tired and withdrawn, kind of hinting that LW is starting to practice his newfound predilections on BW. Then when LW is killed BW is brought in covered in his blood, but when the men find LW a few minutes later his blood is frozen because of how cold it is. He then gives kind of a half-assed answer to who he last saw LW with which is like "some random Manderly dudes". I thought it was pretty obvious the first time I read it and I usually miss everything, like Renly being gay etc.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:33
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Why would Wyman have said "i confess... I confess I never heard of this kid before but it's cool he's dead he might have grown up to be a frey" if he didn't do it. I mean how about "nope not me". "I deny this, what the gently caress, who would kill a kid?" He went straight for the i'm not touching youuuuu of guest rights and taunted them to their faces. Oh maybe he assumed his men did it on their own recognizances and believed it.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:41
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Cause he hates the Boltons, and he hates the Freys, and his son was returned to him safely so now it's time to provoke the Freys into attacking him so his knights (of which he brought hundreds) could slay every single Frey and Bolton in the castle under the pretext that they started it, or alternatively have him and the Freys ride out to meet Stannis where he would turn his cloak, kill the Freys then return to the castle claiming Stannis is right at his heels and have the Boltons open the gates, at which point he'll just let Stannis into the castle.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:45
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I think the best clue that Mance wrote the pink letter is he would really have no motivation to stay at Winterfell and try to rescue fArya, he should know outright that she's a fake. He saw the real one at the beginning of GoT and he immediately recognized Jon when he saw him a second time, so I don't see why he'd give two shits about Jeyne unless he has some ulterior motive. On the other hand maybe Grum just forgot that Mance would know what Arya looks like and I'll admit that's entirely possible.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:02
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Even if he didn't recognize that Jeyne wasn't Arya his current options seem to be: save my arch-nemesis' little sister or use this as an opportunity to gently caress with the Night's Watch.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:12
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Everything you said would also be true if Ramsay wrote it. He knows she's fake. What is mance going to do with not-jon's sister that making jon think it still is his sister is worth his time? I don't see the motivation.emanresu tnuocca posted:Cause he hates the Boltons, and he hates the Freys, and his son was returned to him safely so now it's time to provoke the Freys into attacking him so his knights (of which he brought hundreds) could slay every single Frey and Bolton in the castle under the pretext that they started it, or alternatively have him and the Freys ride out to meet Stannis where he would turn his cloak, kill the Freys then return to the castle claiming Stannis is right at his heels and have the Boltons open the gates, at which point he'll just let Stannis into the castle. So the plan goes off the rails at step one when a successfully provoked knight cuts his throat fat and they just kind of peter out?
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Sep 22, 2015 19:14
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We don't have any clue about what happens in Winterfell after Theon's last ADWD chapter. Last we've seen the castle the Manderleys and Freys are at each other's throats and Roose orders both armies to march at once to fight Stannis, meanwhile, Whoresbane Umber is apparently sitting just outside the walls of Winterfell and is able to pick up Theon and Jeyne with no problems what so ever, so who knows if anyone actually marched out of Winterfell or what the gently caress actually happens. It would take Tycho's party at least a couple of days to reach Stannis' encampment, and the events of the Theon preview chapter add at least another day or two and the Manderleys and the Freys still haven't shown up. So it's kinda tough to tell whether Manderley's plan worked or not. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 19:23
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quote:One was a boy Theon knew—Big Walder, the little one, fox-faced and skinny as a stick. His chest and arms and cloak were spattered with blood.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:34
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Manderly's plan probably wasn't to get him and his men in a mutually assured slaughter inside the castle, but generally just to gently caress with the Freys and look for an opportunity to sabotage the Bolton's plans. They seemed to be doing this pretty well when they fed a few of the Freys to everyone, and maybe if he had his men backstab/turn on the Freys once they marched against Stannis. The throat slicing was probably just a miscalculation on his part when loving with the Freys, he was walking a pretty fine line the entire time.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:35
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Arcsquad12 posted:That's correct. Modern Family does have better choreography than GOT. Something something Sofia Vergara's bra tit choreography.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:41
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Manderley hates the Freys so much he'd literally baked them into pies and ate them and then fed them to their relatives, you guys are overestimating how cold and calculated he is about the whole thing, he seriously just wants to loving murder as many Freys and Boltons as he can, I don't think he minds dying in the process of doing it.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:43
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I agree with you so I don't understand how his throat gets cut and the scuffle stops at all wouldn't his standing orders be "if I die, kill them all, send as many freys as you can with me to hell so I can laugh at them all the way down"
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Sep 22, 2015 19:45
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Krinkle posted:I agree with you so I don't understand how his throat gets cut and the scuffle stops at all wouldn't his standing orders be "if I die, kill them all, send as many freys as you can with me to hell so I can laugh at them all the way down" Well, presumably an actual top-tier lord getting his throat cut shocked everyone into a standstill. The lords are trying to kill each other all the time, but it seems like it's still fairly unusual for an actual bigwig lord to be killed/near-killed outside the context of a battlefield.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:57
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Manderley hates the Freys so much he'd literally baked them into pies and ate them and then fed them to their relatives, you guys are overestimating how cold and calculated he is about the whole thing, he seriously just wants to loving murder as many Freys and Boltons as he can, I don't think he minds dying in the process of doing it. I'm not arguing against that, and I mentioned the Frey pie thing. I agree that he is cold and calculated, I think that his plans are more involved than getting his men slaughtered in a castle where they are outnumbered when instead he can have them further sabotage the Frey and Bolton plans and kill more of them in the long term. That answers Krinkle's question about why it didn't erupt into an all out battle when the Frey's attacked him, they were still biding their time for a longer term betrayal.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:59
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