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thathonkey posted:Sorry but screenshots and analysis shouldn't be needed for a film's merits to show. Watching it should be enough. That's why they are called motion pictures not still paintings. So doing that stuff, while cool, is really just a tryhard attempt (in a vacuum no less) to make mediocre films seem better than they were by cherry picking frames and examining them sans most of the cinematic elements If you only ever just watch the thing you will only ever understand your own opinion on something. The whole point of these discussions is so we can appreciate other opinions. It's all well and good to not like the prequels or think they're bad movies. But too many people take this as objective fact and not just an opinion they have.
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Dec 12, 2015 03:36
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MrBigglesworth posted:I rewatched the PT this week. I think Episode 1s biggest weakness is the lack of actual suffering of the planet under the blockade. We see nothing of the actual occupation other than a few shots of people being matched around. Bibble is constantly bitching of a death toll but we see none of it and have no way of knowing. As compared to ANH where we literally see a planet blown up. Seeing the planet blow up doesn't matter, because we aren't invested in Alderaan at all. The emotional punch comes from seeing Leia being forced to grit her teeth and watch the planet blow up. This is driven home when we see Obi Wan wince and grab his chest, as he's forced to sit down and then describes to Luke what a planet blowing up actually feels like. There's no comparable scene of Amidala being forced to watch her own people being killed or her wincing at some tragedy the blockade has caused on the planet, so it doesn't have nearly the same impact.
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Dec 12, 2015 03:48
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That's. Pretty much what I said.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:11
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Holy poo poo, that's great!
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Dec 12, 2015 04:16
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This is so perfect
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Dec 12, 2015 04:20
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ApexAftermath posted:That mostly it. Both Ford and the director Kershner were not liking how the scene was working so he just said "ok just go for it Harrison" and said action and Ford came up with that line. If it had been Lucas directing I doubt things would have played out that way. Probably would have gone with one of the earlier takes. Gonz posted:Yep. The script called for him to respond "I love you, too." This actually isn't quite accurate. It's how Kershner himself used to tell the story, but he's slightly misremembering. By a miraculous stroke of luck, we actually have audio recording of the behind-the-scenes conversation on the set that day, and it tells exactly how it actually happened (yes, really). More or less the entire transcript is in The Making of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. According to the transcript, the original exchange, as scripted, was: quote:LEIA … I love you. I couldn’t tell you before, but it’s true. Yes, just like the Terminator. Seriously though, it wasn't a great line, but it wasn't nearly as dopey as "I love you, too," which is what Kershner remembers it as being. Also, Ford didn't just come up with the line all spur-of-the-moment after the camera started rolling like the story traditionally goes. Ford and Kershner spent some time in between takes brainstorming ideas for better lines: quote:Kershner: I’m not going to do it. [pause] “I wish I could have told you before.” Then Billie Dee walks onto the set and starts discussing his lines with Kershner and Harrison. And then a little bit later Carrie Fisher shows up and finds out that all the guys are hanging around having a sausage party and changing a bunch of lines in the script without consulting her, and this starts a minor shitstorm: quote:Fisher: Harrison was here while you were making changes and I always feel like it’s behind my back, that you’re rehearsing. And Carrie storms off and they have to go calm her down and get her to come back. LOL. Oh yeah, and then, I poo poo you not, David loving Prowse walks over and starts badgering Kershner to take a look at this bodybuilding book he just wrote, and it's hilarious how Kershner immediately just waves him off so can talk to Peter Mayhew about, you know, the scene: quote:David Prowse: I’ve written a book called Fitness Is Fun. I want to give you a copy. I brought one in, so sometime this afternoon. So yeah, this is a good example about how there are upsides and downsides to every style of directing. Kershner ran a loose ship and that allowed for lots of good improvisation which improved the film, but it also occasionally led to there being a chaotic work environment which confused and frustrated the actors. Luckily Kershner was the nicest guy in the world and everyone respected him so it ended up okay. But if this kind of thing was in any way routine, then it probably contributed in part to the extended shooting times and general lack of coordination that almost stopped the film from being completed due to cost overruns. If you try to run a loose ship on a big, complicated picture like Star Wars, poo poo spirals out of control really really fast. At the very least you'd need an exceptionally competent producer to help you keep everything on track. The problem was, Gary Kurtz apparently wasn't doing that. He claims to this day that he was just trying to support his director and protect him from the tyrannical reign of George Lucas the Tight-fisted Money Man, but evidence and common sense belies that explanation. Kershner has never had anything but good things to say about George as a producer, specifically praising him for keeping to his word and giving Kershner as free a hand as he wanted. The problem wasn't that Lucas didn't want to spend the money, but that Kurtz kept giving Lucas what turned out to be woefully lowballed estimates for the budget. Lucas couldn't keep going back to the bank and asking for more and more loans every time the budget kept inflating due to Kurtz's inability to manage the production. The bank started laughing in his face. And for years Lucas (as far as I know) didn't say a word in public about any of this basically being Kurtz's fault, instead blaming it on himself for not taking a more active producing role on-set, all while Kurtz went around on the interview circuit constantly accusing Lucas of selling out and claiming that they parted ways due to creative differences. It wasn't until a few years ago that this side of the story really came out, and it became obvious that Kurtz was actually unofficially fired from his role as producer on Empire and replaced with Howard Kazanjian, because he couldn't keep the budget under control. It's absolutely insane that Lucas gets all the flak he does, while Gary Kurtz is praised as the hero of A New Hope and Empire. Kurtz had problems controlling the budget and controlling department heads on A New Hope, and as a result Lucas had misgivings about hiring him back for Empire, but did so anyway out of loyalty. Then Kurtz nearly completely hosed the pooch on Empire and almost destroyed Lucasfilm as a company in the process. In an ironic twist, years later Kurtz went on to produce Return to Oz for Walt Disney Pictures, which, you guessed it, began to fall behind schedule and go over-budget. Guess who personally stepped in to help bail the film out? George Lucas. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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Dec 12, 2015 04:26
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Well, poo poo. You learn something new every day.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:38
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Cnut you do good work never stop. That is really eye opening. I especially love Prowse pushing his book on the set.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:41
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I think my favorite nugget of behind-the-scenes Star Wars knowledge is just how much of a dipshit David Prowse was.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:43
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Colonel Whitey posted:Almost every shot people have picked out of the PT as examples of good cinematography are actually awful anyway Go for it!
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Dec 12, 2015 04:45
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I'm confused. That doesn't actually say anything about the moment where they came up with the "I know" line which is all I was talking about. All that stuff Cnut posted would have happened prior to that so....?
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Dec 12, 2015 04:47
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ApexAftermath posted:I'm confused. That doesn't actually say anything about the moment where they came up with the "I know" line which is all I was talking about. All that stuff Cnut posted would have happened prior to that so....? Reread the first bolded quote block.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:49
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ApexAftermath posted:I'm confused. That doesn't actually say anything about the moment where they came up with the "I know" line which is all I was talking about. All that stuff Cnut posted would have happened prior to that so....? Uh, this part seems to be exactly what you're talking about : quote:Ford: I think she ought to just say, “I love you,” as I’m passing by her. That's apparently the moment when "I love you" is introduced. If there's no "I love you", then there's no "I love you too" to respond with.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:50
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Zoran posted:I think my favorite nugget of behind-the-scenes Star Wars knowledge is just how much of a dipshit David Prowse was. Now I'm imagining him in the Vader suit between takes pitching his new book in his dorky accent to whoever will listen  
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Dec 12, 2015 04:52
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ImpAtom posted:Yes we are. He's trapped on a dead-end planet with no career prospects forced to do a job for his uncle who refuses to allow him to leave. He's not meant to be a farmer. He has too much of his father in him. We are not shown Luke doing any farming whatsoever.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:53
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Zoran posted:Reread the first bolded quote block. Ah whoops. Missed it. Ok so it's slightly different from the story told before. Fine. The funny part is how Lucas was so worried about it that he was going to have two preview screenings with the "I know" line and one with the original line. Obviously he saw that audiences are not morons and reacted very strongly in a positive way to the line.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:54
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Turns out that David Prowse was really good at helping Patrick Magee drug Malcolm McDowell, but not so good at acting.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:55
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There's another kind of funny, convoluted joke behind all this. First of all, Dex himself was based on Mel Sharples, the owner of Mel's Diner from the 1974 Scorsese film Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore and subsequent TV series Alice:  The drive-in diner from American Graffiti is also called Mel's:  Hence the staging of the joke picture: 
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Dec 12, 2015 04:56
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Also I'll take a director who is more loose and gets those improvised lines any day over a guy who shoots one or two takes of just what was on the page and calls it good regardless of the quality of the delivery.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:We are not shown Luke doing any farming whatsoever. He works on a moisture farm. We see him standing around a lot staring into the distance and breathing heavily. That's how the moisture is made.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:59
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euphronius posted:Cnut you do good work never stop. I can't take credit for this one, I just bought a publicly available e-book and used the power of fair use doctrine to copy/paste it onto the Internet with commentary! Being an Ambiguously Autistic Star Wars Scholar (™) on a dying comedy forum means this is fair use, right? I feel like if I was more autistic I would know this.
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Dec 12, 2015 05:13
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when does this poo poo world premiere? I'm going totally dark from then until thursday. no internet no radio in the car. I don't even want to know if its good or not.
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Dec 12, 2015 05:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:We are not shown Luke doing any farming whatsoever. Yes we are. You know the part where he's preparing and prepping R2 and C3P0? That is part of his future farming work. They bought those droids to do farm work. It is the space version of fixing a tractor. This is made very plain in the film and the way Luke acts. He storms off to do his farm chores. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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Dec 12, 2015 05:26
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The Walrus posted:when does this poo poo world premiere? I'm going totally dark from then until thursday. no internet no radio in the car. I don't even want to know if its good or not. Monday night (Pacific time).
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Dec 12, 2015 05:26
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Cnut the Great posted:I can't take credit for this one, I just bought a publicly available e-book and used the power of fair use doctrine to copy/paste it onto the Internet with commentary! Being an Ambiguously Autistic Star Wars Scholar (™) on a dying comedy forum means this is fair use, right? I feel like if I was more autistic I would know this. Copyright law just isn't your autistic interest, I suppose. But yeah, this is really cool stuff, what would you say are the best behind-the-scenes books?
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Dec 12, 2015 05:27
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The Walrus posted:when does this poo poo world premiere? I'm going totally dark from then until thursday. no internet no radio in the car. I don't even want to know if its good or not. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/releaseinfo
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Dec 12, 2015 05:27
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Moisture farming has always been hilarious to me. Like I know it'd probably be a valuable business on a world made of coarse, rough sand that gets eveywhere, and there's no natural bodies of water anywhere. But just the name. I mean, can you imagine Luke standing around listening to Owen badgering on how to get moist? The trade shows must be a blast.
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Dec 12, 2015 06:15
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It's farming that, in practice, probably is a whole lot more like running maintenance on an assembly line. The vaporators do all the work; the people are there to keep them running.
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Dec 12, 2015 06:20
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Aaronicon posted:Moisture farming has always been hilarious to me. Like I know it'd probably be a valuable business on a world made of coarse, rough sand that gets eveywhere, and there's no natural bodies of water anywhere. But just the name. I mean, can you imagine Luke standing around listening to Owen badgering on how to get moist? The trade shows must be a blast. Owen just hangs out doing spice all day while the Freman do the real work.
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Dec 12, 2015 06:22
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Hes a Making the Girls Moist(ure) Farmer
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Dec 12, 2015 06:27
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jivjov posted:It's farming that, in practice, probably is a whole lot more like running maintenance on an assembly line. The vaporators do all the work; the people are there to keep them running. I was always a bit foggy on the concept of 'harvest season'
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Dec 12, 2015 06:41
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The Walrus posted:I was always a bit foggy on the concept of 'harvest season' There's a desert in Chile that hasn't gotten rain in 400 years or something along those lines, but it does get periods of heavy mist come in, so I assume they're not directly at the equator and during the winter they might get some precipitation.
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Dec 12, 2015 06:49
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The Walrus posted:I was always a bit foggy on the concept of 'harvest season' Probably takes a while to gather enough to make it worthwhile to take to market, it doesn't go bad, and you can wait till a regular seasonal point when moisture prices go up to optimize your value.
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Dec 12, 2015 06:53
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From what I remember, Beru tended a hydroponics lab, so they farmed moisture and crops.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:06
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For some reason, this dude records his son's reaction to watching A New Hope for the first time. It's interesting how this is (ostensibly) the kid's first time watching ANH but he already knows a lot about Star Wars. I guess things like Darth Vader being Luke's father are just part of pop culture background radiation at this point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_zJVXhEE0U
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Dec 12, 2015 07:08
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It is way, way too ingrained in U.S. culture to not know those things. My office is chock-full of parents who won't let their kids watch the movies because the children are too young but are buying them tons of Star Wars stuff because somehow the kid has it in their head they love it and want it for Christmas and know all the main plot-points. I've also learned some of my co-workers are, gasp, Prequelists and reject the Triune.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:20
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Speaking of which, does anybody know any people who saw the prequel trilogy as kids before they ever watched the original trilogy? Long-time Star Wars fans were tainted by their expectations, and I suspect newbies received it better.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:25
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Really the Yoda reveal is a bigger loss than Vader being Luke's father.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:26
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computer parts posted:Really the Yoda reveal is a bigger loss than Vader being Luke's father.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:27
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computer parts posted:Really the Yoda reveal is a bigger loss than Vader being Luke's father. Yeah, I remember watching ESB as a kid before the Internet came to my town and being really surprised that the funny green old man was Yoda. Also I was talking with a co-worker's 10-year-old son and apparently he's never seen any of the movies, just the cartoons, and thinks Anakin is the coolest guy ever.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:29
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