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It is the only book I have ever read
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Jan 30, 2016 16:16
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Mr. Squishy posted:It is the only book I have ever read Perhaps you should consider David Vann
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Jan 30, 2016 16:20
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mdemone posted:I had a chance to get a signed first edition of Infinite Jest for just a cool thousand bucks at the local used store, this was a year or two after he died. Still regret not doing it, despite the fact I couldn't afford it then. I wouldn't feel bad. A signature is a memento of actually meeting the author. I have no interest in a signed book that wasn't signed for me.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:22
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Mr. Squishy posted:It is the only book I have ever read I used to have Recognitions on my shelf for months then I gave it to Half Price Books. I would really like to read Gaddis at some point though
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Jan 30, 2016 16:23
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I've been to bookstores. That's my experience with literature.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:26
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I made it to the point in recognitions where the main character visits his hometown around halfway through the novel. I remember it being funny, boring, bizarre and indecipherable.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:30
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There's also a bit where a character takes a sea-voyage to Europe with a girl he wants to gently caress who at some point becomes a hallucination.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:44
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I just finished a novel and haven't started the next yet. I have an insane backlog but should I read Recognitions now yes/no?
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Jan 30, 2016 16:46
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blue squares posted:I just finished a novel and haven't started the next yet. I have an insane backlog but should I read Recognitions now yes/no? Yes but your backlog is getting pushed to 2Q 2016
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Jan 30, 2016 18:08
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Mr. Squishy posted:I forged a signature in my copy of Recognitions that was printed after Gaddis' death. That's a good joke. blue squares posted:I just finished a novel and haven't started the next yet. I have an insane backlog but should I read Recognitions now yes/no? yeah doggy Cloks posted:I made it to the point in recognitions where the main character visits his hometown around halfway through the novel. I remember it being funny, boring, bizarre and indecipherable. That part is cool because it turns into really dense religious allusion and his dad has started worshipping the sun and the maid has sex with a bull.
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Jan 31, 2016 00:13
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The introduction by Gass is the best introduction I have ever read and the first 20 pages are great
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Jan 31, 2016 00:14
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blue squares posted:The introduction by Gass is the best introduction I have ever read and the first 20 pages are great Yeah, it helps that Gass does a nice little breakdown of the passage about the "surgeon", and then the book opens with that set piece.
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Jan 31, 2016 00:22
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Anyone ever read Danilo Kis or Bruno Schulz? Any guidance or recommendations?
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Jan 31, 2016 02:47
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btw I'm gonna give Sophia another shot and instead of being annoyed by a smug pretentious author I'm going to instead read it as a crazy drunk preacher writing what he thinks is profound but is actually trite nonsense and think about what that says about his character
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Jan 31, 2016 02:54
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blue squares posted:btw I'm gonna give Sophia another shot and instead of being annoyed by a smug pretentious author I'm going to instead read it as a crazy drunk preacher writing what he thinks is profound but is actually trite nonsense and think about what that says about his character thats the idea! fucker!
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Jan 31, 2016 03:01
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CestMoi posted:[ABC OF READING][/ABC OF READING] -- Ezra OPund wasn't just right about the Jews, he was also right about poetry, mostly. A must read if you want to be a top tier TBB good books thread poster. What do you think he was specifically right about? I've mixed feelings on Pound. I cringe at every apostrophic line.
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Jan 31, 2016 04:22
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Vorticism is cool.
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Jan 31, 2016 05:59
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Not sure what that is but I went on a date with a girl who no-poo poo claimed to be only sexually aroused by vore. She was a tiny little asian
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Jan 31, 2016 06:03
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MothraAttack posted:Anyone ever read Danilo Kis or Bruno Schulz? Any guidance or recommendations? Bruno Schulz is great. He has written so little that you can start anywhere, really. Keep in mind it's almost more like prose poetry, and instead of narrative coherence you get great dreamlike images, crazy character(s) and fantastic prose (that works in translation). But yeah, you can get lost in the maze of his style sometimes so you have to pay attention. I haven't read Kiš yet, but he's on my backlog, so I'm interested in what you have to say once you read him.
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Jan 31, 2016 07:46
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iccyelf posted:What do you think he was specifically right about? I've mixed feelings on Pound. I cringe at every apostrophic line. I really very love the sound of poetry and think it's way more important than a lot of poets tend to treat it, and he really very loves the sound of poetry, so I agree with him there. Also agree with his views on reading a lot to become a good writer and other things like that but they're pretty self-evident. There's also a bit where he talks about how because English word order is grammatically important there can be a conflict between what sounds good and what is grammatically correct and if you let either of them win then you've hosed up a bit, which was basically the exact feeling I had while reading Pope's Odyssey. Lots of little things that I agreed with basically, but mostly the euphonics thing Edit: Also I dont; really agree with Pound's choices in his list of Exhibits but there's so few "here are the poetry things you should read" lists and so many people seem to want them that any list is a list worth reading CestMoi fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 11:13
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Shibawanko posted:Vorticism is cool. Wyndham Lewis really owns, although most of the stuff I've read by him is from after his vorticist period. The Revenge for Love is very good, and I really liked The Childermass even though it's an almost completely plotless book where the characters just spend the second half watching other people talk. Unfortunately a lot of his stuff isn't in print so it's hard to find.
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Jan 31, 2016 11:28
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CestMoi posted:I really very love the sound of poetry and think it's way more important than a lot of poets tend to treat it, and he really very loves the sound of poetry, so I agree with him there. Also agree with his views on reading a lot to become a good writer and other things like that but they're pretty self-evident. There's also a bit where he talks about how because English word order is grammatically important there can be a conflict between what sounds good and what is grammatically correct and if you let either of them win then you've hosed up a bit, which was basically the exact feeling I had while reading Pope's Odyssey. Lots of little things that I agreed with basically, but mostly the euphonics thing Hm okay, cool but I thought Pound was saying that it isn’t how much you read but what you read. He seems to draw a hardline under classical lib-arts education, expecting a “good” poet to read Greek, Latin, French, or some combination of comparative languages. The reason I’m interested is because I believe Pound’s thick elitism is partly responsible for the fall of poetry. Not that Pound is specifically responsible but focusing on what’s right and proper in literature seems asinine. Then again, I find the exercises very well thought out. Thinking about writer a. b. and c. in a structure is a fun way to get more out of poetry. I don’t think you need to read French or Greek to be a good reader or writer. I understand what you’re saying about sound but how do you —or what do you find in Pound— that addresses L=A=N=G poetry in a satisfying way? Everyday language might not be elevated in a strict poetic sense but it’s vulgar sound and clumsy idioms strike me with more connotation than not. I don’t see how to bridge that gap. How to make poetry accessible, clear, and meaningful while keeping a language that you need an academic education to understand.
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Jan 31, 2016 13:50
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blue squares posted:Not sure what that is but I went on a date with a girl who no-poo poo claimed to be only sexually aroused by vore. She was a tiny little asian
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Jan 31, 2016 13:58
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iccyelf posted:Hm okay, cool but I thought Pound was saying that it isn’t how much you read but what you read. He seems to draw a hardline under classical lib-arts education, expecting a “good” poet to read Greek, Latin, French, or some combination of comparative languages. The reason I’m interested is because I believe Pound’s thick elitism is partly responsible for the fall of poetry. Firstly, I am glad that someone wants to talk about poetry, because it's the best. Yeah, he's basically saying that to be a good poet you need to read good poetry and be able to distinguish it from bad poetry. Reading bad poetry and thinking it's good will make you a bad poet, reading good poetry and recognising its goodness will make you a good poet. Whether you NEED to be able to read a lot of different languages is something I'm really not sure about myself, poetry really does suffer in translation and it'd be insane to say you could just read English poetry and thereby have a good grasp of poetry, and I don't think it's crazy to say you need to have a good grasp of what others have done in a craft in order to yourself be good at that craft. On the other hand, I've got some Pessoa in English that is great and lovely to read because I'm not about to learn Portuguese atm. I almost feel like you could listen to a speaker of a language read the poetry then read something of a literal English translation and that might be okay?? Obviously nowhere near perfect but at least you get a feel for the sound, which I agree with Pound as being ludicrously important to poetry. As for elitism, I'm really not sure there's a way to make poetry that's not elitist? EIther you go the Pound you must be this educated to enter route or you go for stuff that is accessible but just sort of ends up being what a friend of mine constantly and annoyingly refers to as prose with line breaks. I think that everyday crap can definitely be poetic, depending on how it is used. As you say, the connotation of it can be a very powerful thing, but just a list of connotations is not poetry. For me, LANGUAGE poetry tends to not have the sound (both not being poetical whatever that is and not being nice to say aloud) that I want from poetry, but I'll admit to having read very little of it. Pound describes poetry as being language charged with the greatest possible meaning, Borges said he preferred writing short stories to poetry because poetry required "line by line virtuosity". It's not about the everday language being vulgar or clumsy or whatever, it's about the fact that generally, an everyday expression is not the perfect thing for the sound, meaning, form etc of the poem, and every line needs to be perfect to be good poetry. Really great poets make very basic language work well for them, but almost no one is a really great poet. I'm not sure poetry needs to be all that accessible, any more than say, contemporary art or artsy film needs to be. It's not about appealing to a broad range of people (although that is obvs very nice to be able to do) it's about making something that is good.
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Jan 31, 2016 14:30
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The main thing I remember from that book was his hatred for crosswords. Also, him being snobbish as hell, giving rules like commandments. But I'm not that much into poetry, so it wasn't really for me. Going to slam poetry nights in London was p cool tho
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Jan 31, 2016 14:52
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So C'est Moi was the Manchurian poster all along
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Jan 31, 2016 16:58
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I read Norwegian Wood. You could totally tell Murakami wrote this, especially with some of the female characters. I question the need of the sex scene with the 13 year old girl though.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:12
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V. Illych L. posted:you are now dissing my man bulgakov War and Peace is where Russian lit is as at (Borges is ok btw)
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Jan 31, 2016 22:23
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mallamp posted:Master and Margarita was 360 pages of 20th Century lolrandom except the jokes were dry Have you actually read the book? there's nothing random in it or about it
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Jan 31, 2016 22:40
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CestMoi posted:Firstly, I am glad that someone wants to talk about poetry, because it's the best. Yeah man. I read poetry mostly. I can’t deal with novels over 200 pages. I don’t think it’s crazy. I understand the argument (generally) that learning multiple languages makes you more linguistic sensitive. It just falls down in practice. Lydia Davis is not a better writer than Joy Williams. Dick Davis is not a better poet than Frank Stanford. I think what your friend is chaffing at is how poetry is taught. Line breaks are rarely examined as form in undergrad courses. I don’t believe that poetry needs to be elitist in a world mediated primarily by letters. We read/write, mythologise the self, and curate a voice by participating in social media. In times past these are things people needed to practice and develop. So for you the surrealists weren’t writing poetry? I get you but isn’t cadence embedded in language itself? I feel by your measurements that no one has ever written a good poem. You can find line flaws in poem if you look hard enough. I got you. I want something different from poetry but that’s fair.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:26
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My school's English department has this video about what they call the Close Reading Interpretive Tool (CRIT). It's a six step method for analyzing literature and forming arguments. I thought it would be lame when the video started but its actually pretty good, especially to a literary dunce like me. https://laits.utexas.edu/crit/home
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Jan 31, 2016 23:50
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That's actually really cool, man. Thanks for posting it. It seems like a great way to read theory as well just with the emphasis shifted to devices like rhetoric and argumentation instead of scansion, enjambment etc.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:46
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iccyelf posted:We read/write, mythologise the self, and curate a voice by participating in social media. In times past these are things people needed to practice and develop. What does this sentence mean?
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Feb 1, 2016 01:53
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that's two sentences
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Feb 1, 2016 01:57
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but I think that poster is saying it is much easier to deliberately create a public facing persona that is a sort of mythologized version of one's self than it was in the past when the majority of social interaction was face to face
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Feb 1, 2016 01:58
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A human heart posted:What does this sentence mean? Social media gives the modern person an opportunity to construct a sense of self and advertise it to others very casually, unlike in the past when the construction of a persona required conscious practice.
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Feb 1, 2016 01:58
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Yeah but also those things are essential to poetry. Someone like Rimbaud acted outrageously not because he was an iconoclastic person but to develop the voice he needed for his poetic aims. In our current era we do these things naturally. Whether people realise it or not, they already understand the poetic persona probably better than any era before. e: Look at Bukowski on "the literary life" for a more familiar example of what I'm talking about. iccyelf fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 03:00
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Reading Recognitions and Gaddis's influence on Pynchon and Wallace is plain as day. Loving it.
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Feb 1, 2016 03:56
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blue squares posted:Reading Recognitions and Gaddis's influence on Pynchon and Wallace is plain as day. Loving it. That's because he is them
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Feb 1, 2016 04:24
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PKD rooted out the truth that so-called "Stanisław Lem" was actually a committee of Soviet writers, and so "Pynchon" was the CIA's proportionate response. The pieces all fit together.
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Feb 1, 2016 04:41
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