Nate RFB posted:

I don't particular mind that Shinji reaches seemingly new lows after a his supposed high at the end of 2.22, bringing him down a peg or two and people hating him for it all is just fine really. But the way 3.33 goes about presenting was kind of half-assed, there had to have been a more organic way to go from 2.22 to 3.33 than the method they chose.

Ak Gara posted:

I was also disappointed by 3.0. I'm all for the plot going in a new direction but they could have continued it from when Kaworu shafted Shinji from behind. 4.0 better be a flashback episode.

Nate RFB posted:

I don't particular mind that Shinji reaches seemingly new lows after a his supposed high at the end of 2.22, bringing him down a peg or two and people hating him for it all is just fine really. But the way 3.33 goes about presenting was kind of half-assed, there had to have been a more organic way to go from 2.22 to 3.33 than the method they chose.

Applewhite posted:

No you see the movie is brilliant because it's supposed to irritate you with its chaotic visuals and disjointed narrative. They did it on purpose so that makes it good. The viewer hating every second that Shinji on the screen is actually a metacommentary on how everyone inside the show hates him too and the show's creators want you to feel their hatred. The Eva Pilots not growing up is a dig at how the audience, once it gets sucked into Evangelion, is also unable to grow up.

There are lots of movies and TV shows which successfully disorient the viewer and use chaotic imagery put him ill at ease which I would call brilliant (or at least very good). I do not consider Evangelion 3.33 to be among them.

ImpAtom posted:

The best thing in the world about Eva 3.0 is when people rant about how Shinji "finally grew some balls."

Applewhite posted:

No you see the movie is brilliant because it's supposed to irritate you with its chaotic visuals and disjointed narrative. They did it on purpose so that makes it good. The viewer hating every second that Shinji on the screen is actually a metacommentary on how everyone inside the show hates him too and the show's creators want you to feel their hatred.

ImpAtom posted:

I don't hate Shinji. I also don't feel like Shinji needs to 'grow balls' to become tolerable though. You obviously have no pity for him and that's fine but it isn't a universal opinion. Even a lot of people who dislike 3.0 dislike it because they feel it's unfair to Shinji, not because they hate Shinji.

That said, yes, the Eva pilots not growing up is specifically and unambiguously that. Back when Eva 1.0 came out the producers used the same term (the curse of Eva) to refer to both the industry and the fans and their response to Evangelion. It also conveniently allows them to hide the time skip (by not having Asuka age) and to continue selling merch (because they like money).

ImpAtom posted:

I think the inorganic method was intentional. The viewer is supposed to be uncomfortable, disoriented, confused and so-on. Before the film came out they hid the entire time skip. The first thing anyone would know about it would be when they sat down in the theater even if they watched every trailer. It's supposed to put the viewer in the same position as Shinji. You can argue it was unsuccessful (but considering how many complaints mirror Shinji's own I don't think that's accurate) but it certainly wasn't half-assed.

It's an uncomfortable movie. It has a protagonist who veers from pathetic or loathesome to pitiable, it has little catharsis, it's critical of its audience (but it doesn't hate its audience) and it is genuinely uninterested in pandering to the idea that Evangelion's worldsetting exists for any reason other than motivating the characters. That, however, feels like the essence of Evangelion to me. The errata stuff is never what the television show was interested in. It's a lot more Evangelion to me than Shinji rocket punching an angel. (And I say this from the somewhat-hypocritical position of enjoying SRW Shinji Ikari I admit, but that is because SRW is largely pure catharsis.)

ImpAtom posted:

I think the inorganic method was intentional. The viewer is supposed to be uncomfortable, disoriented, confused and so-on. Before the film came out they hid the entire time skip. The first thing anyone would know about it would be when they sat down in the theater even if they watched every trailer. It's supposed to put the viewer in the same position as Shinji. You can argue it was unsuccessful (but considering how many complaints mirror Shinji's own I don't think that's accurate) but it certainly wasn't half-assed.

It's an uncomfortable movie. It has a protagonist who veers from pathetic or loathesome to pitiable, it has little catharsis, it's critical of its audience (but it doesn't hate its audience) and it is genuinely uninterested in pandering to the idea that Evangelion's worldsetting exists for any reason other than motivating the characters. That, however, feels like the essence of Evangelion to me. The errata stuff is never what the television show was interested in. It's a lot more Evangelion to me than Shinji rocket punching an angel. (And I say this from the somewhat-hypocritical position of enjoying SRW Shinji Ikari I admit, but that is because SRW is largely pure catharsis.)

Nate RFB posted:

I really can't emphasize this enough but I really, really do not care for nor want Shinji to man up or be badass or even really have a happy ending, at least not necessarily. I am a big fan of End of Evangelion and have no real interest in anything Super Robot Wars related as amusing as they often seem to be when it comes to Eva. I just don't care for the way 3.33 is structured and paced (especially at the beginning), it's disorientating yes but not in a way that makes me feel like they utilized some semblance of filmmaking acumen to get it across. It instead feels almost like an unintentional consequence of a script that went through a few too many rewrites or edits, as if key scenes to make it all flow together were left on the cutting floor for whatever reason. Almost as if it were an adaptation of some other, longer work. I am not saying that is what happened (at least, I don't think there's ever been an indication that was the case), just how came across to me as a viewer.

Nate RFB posted:

I really can't emphasize this enough but I really, really do not care for nor want Shinji to man up or be badass or even really have a happy ending, at least not necessarily. I am a big fan of End of Evangelion and have no real interest in anything Super Robot Wars related as amusing as they often seem to be when it comes to Eva. I just don't care for the way 3.33 is structured and paced (especially at the beginning), it's disorientating yes but not in a way that makes me feel like they utilized some semblance of filmmaking acumen to get it across. It instead feels almost like an unintentional consequence of a script that went through a few too many rewrites or edits, as if key scenes to make it all flow together were left on the cutting floor for whatever reason. Almost as if it were an adaptation of some other, longer work. I am not saying that is what happened (at least, I don't think there's ever been an indication that was the case), just how came across to me as a viewer.

Zas posted:

I dunno dude, I felt like the film 'utilized some semblance of filmmaking acumen' but that's not surprising since I think anno has a lot of filmmaking acumen

Sakurazuka posted:

Prometheus was also a good film

In Training posted:

I don't understand how it's comparable to Rebuild 3.0 in any capacity

In Training posted:

I don't understand how it's comparable to Rebuild 3.0 in any capacity

Raxivace posted:

They're both scifi movies that came out in 2012 and uh that's about it.

In Training posted:

Holy cow that's a good av.

Zas posted:

I think if your critique of 3 can be transposed almost entirely to EoE without losing any meaning, then that means you're looking at 3 in the wrong way and probably not fully engaging with it.

Applewhite posted:

Robotnik Nudes posted:

People who hate Prometheus invariably seem to be the worst kind of geeks who think those "Honest Trailers" and "Eevrything Wrong with X Movie in X Seconds" videos aren't pustulating anti-intellectual tumors on the cultural consciousness.

I'm not surprised that geek culture simps have a hard time with Q.

Zas posted:

I agree the films are very different, that's why it's fascinating (and I think a mark of success) to see such similar reaction. If Rebuild 3 had really been an EoE style film, it wouldn't have generated nearly as much hostility, people would just think "oh, he's being weird again."

Zas posted:

I think if your critique of 3 can be transposed almost entirely to EoE without losing any meaning, then that means you're looking at 3 in the wrong way and probably not fully engaging with it.

Robotnik Nudes posted:

Because EoE never generated any hostility or put people off.

Robotnik Nudes posted:

People who hate Prometheus invariably seem to be the worst kind of geeks who think those "Honest Trailers" and "Eevrything Wrong with X Movie in X Seconds" videos aren't pustulating anti-intellectual tumors on the cultural consciousness.

I'm not surprised that geek culture simps have a hard time with Q.

Zas posted:

I agree the films are very different, that's why it's fascinating (and I think a mark of success) to see such similar reaction. If Rebuild 3 had really been an EoE style film, it wouldn't have generated nearly as much hostility, people would just think "oh, he's being weird again."

Robotnik Nudes posted:

The day after the release of EoE, Hideaki Anno was snatched from his home, given a crown of laurels and carried down flower lined streets upon the shoulders of everyone in Japan, women begging on every street corner for him to teach them how to make love, taken to the Imperial Palace and given a sweet kiss on the forehead by the Emperor himself. Plans were made to carve his face into Mt. Fuji but that fell through due to lack of funds.


Everyone adored the film immediately. Anno was offered a position in the government as Comissioner of Really Good Movies but turned it down because he didn't want all the love to go to his head.

Zas posted:

it did in 97, now people have adapted to it and accepted it. it's not shocking anymore (well, it probably is for new people, but that's not the point)

Applewhite posted:

I can see not hating Prmoetheus (I enjoyed parts of it myself, especially Michael Fassbender) but it was hardly a work of narrative or visual storytelling genius. It was mediocre at best.


It will take a lot more than that to convince me that 3.33 is somehow some kind of double secret triple ironic meta bluff that is actually good instead of a series of fumbled attempts at profundity.
In terms of editing and visual aesthetic, I'd describe it as "Constantine meets Transformers" and narratively it's about as "thought provoking" and "complex" as M. Night Shamylan's "Lady in the Water."

In Training posted:

I didn't know people still posted like this.