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The Hour of the Dragon.
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May 7, 2016 20:33
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The original idea of the fantasy genre was basically historical fiction for eras with very little known history and/ or fake histories. Lotr expanded this to fake mythology which was ok i guess. It's the wave of morons who don't know a lot about history or mythology aping the forms which ruined the genre. Modern fantasy is more like novelized videogames and dungeon and dragons gams which is pathetic
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May 7, 2016 20:35
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Speaking of hack writers In 1965, Lin Carter published The Wizard of Lemuria, featuring "Thongor the Barbarian" a rip off of Robert E Howard's Conan. This got L. Sprague de Camp's attention who hired Lin Carter to work with him in "posthumous collaborations" to rewrite/finish Howard's Conan and Krull stories. Lin Carter also copied the poo poo out of HP Lovecraft and Lord Dunsany. Supposedly, Stan Lee wanted to make a comic out of Thongor instead of Conan because "the name Thongor sounds better". Fortunately he was convinced (I think licensing fees of "Thongor" had something to do with it) to make Conan comics instead and Conan reentered the fantasy consciousness in the 1970s. Don't confuse the copy and pasted Thongor the Barbarian with Thorgal the Barbarian of course, which is a totally original character do not steal made in comic form by Belgian writer Jean Van Hamme and Grzegorz Rosinski in 1977. In a totally original twist, Thorgal the Barbarian crash lands on Earth from space and fights in an iron age supernatural Viking world when he's not in an Atlantean story. Oh and because Thorgal the Barbarian is such an enlightened fellow, only when his memory is stripped can Thorgal the Barbarian become a Pirate Lord because totally Not Conan no sir. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorgal Have a podcast. http://thecromcast.blogspot.com/
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May 7, 2016 20:55
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Mange Mite posted:The original idea of the fantasy genre was basically historical fiction for eras with very little known history and/ or fake histories. Lotr expanded this to fake mythology which was ok i guess. It's the wave of morons who don't know a lot about history or mythology aping the forms which ruined the genre. I remember the idea that LotR wasn't based in any existing country blew my mind back when I was a kid.
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May 7, 2016 21:01
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Tolkien's legendarium is essentially a corpus of fan fiction, only the source materials were existing languages and mythology rather than contemporary fiction. Tolkien himself was a bit ashamed at how self-indulgent he was to create his own languages and mythology, and perplexed that anyone else would be interested in them. In a sense a lot of fantasy novels are shallow fan fiction OF fan fiction so it's surprisingly they're mostly awful.
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May 7, 2016 21:04
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If you want to get a party really excited talk about how the Koran is the Bible/Torah fan fiction, and the Bible is just the Torah's greatest hits.
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May 7, 2016 21:12
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Realtalk - I always enjoyed the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories and you all might too, readers.
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May 7, 2016 21:15
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Wizchine posted:Realtalk - I always enjoyed the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories and you all might too, readers. I loved the Mike Mignola comics and really want to read the novel's upon which they were based.
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May 7, 2016 21:19
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LMAO stan lee thought loving "thongor" was a better name than conan?
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May 7, 2016 21:34
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http://ultimateconanfan.blogspot.com/2012/05/howard-criticism-dark-man-part-i-roy.html?m=1 "RT: So we ended up having permission...to go after a Sword and Sorcery character...We figured Conan was probably out of our reach...[Stan Lee] preferred names like Kull and this other name I told him about, Thongor, which was Lin Carter's character...So we first went after Thongor. Lin Carter liked the idea of his characters being made into comics...but his agent did not like the $150 an issue that [Martin] Goodman had authorized me to offer for it. Wow, Lin Carter really should have had a different agent. Just think, if his agent had accepted the offer, we could right now be Thongor-maniacs instead of Conan-maniacs! On a side note, Thongor did appear in Marvel comics, in Creatures on the Loose #22 (1973)."  and history was made. Thank god for lovely agents.
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May 7, 2016 21:40
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Fafhrd and Mouser sample story: 2 Mary sues fight something with almost no exposition, then gently caress an exotic lady. I think in one of the stories they hosed 2 magic princesses with see-through bodies.
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May 7, 2016 21:47
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Celluloid Sam posted:I can't imagine huge oiled tits in the 6teen art style Bitmap we're gonna need to see a proof of concept, pronto!
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May 7, 2016 21:47
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If more than 10% of the books you read are fantasy please kill yourself
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May 7, 2016 21:48
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Colonel Cancer posted:Fafhrd and Mouser sample story: 2 Mary sues fight something with almost no exposition, then gently caress an exotic lady. I think in one of the stories they hosed 2 magic princesses with see-through bodies. Lol I bet they were just jerking off in the same room and made up the part about the invisible princesses so they wouldn't be gay.
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May 7, 2016 21:48
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Applewhite posted:I'd say The Scarlet Citadel. The line "The Yogtha's roots are set in Hell" made me fall in love with the series. Red Nails ftw
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May 7, 2016 21:50
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Conan is my middle name 
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May 7, 2016 21:52
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I think it has less to do with Tolkien and more to do with the fact that D&D dominated the concept of fantasy fiction for a hot minute. The Earthsea novels, Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, John Carter of Mars, and some of the works of Lord Dunsaney were all contemporary or before LotR. But they didn't make it into the overall concept of fantasy because most weren't heavily pulled into the Dragonlance/Forgotten Realms settings in the 80s.
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May 7, 2016 21:54
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Applewhite posted:Lol I bet they were just jerking off in the same room and made up the part about the invisible princesses so they wouldn't be gay. That's pretty clever
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May 7, 2016 21:55
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Without Tolkien knockoffs there'd just be more Lovecraft and Moorcock knockoffs. I know OP disagrees but I think we have enough Tentacles and Warhammers in fantasy as it is.
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May 7, 2016 21:57
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Windows 98 posted:Believe it or not GRRM only started writing because he loved comic books so much. He would sit and read comics and watch a harbor with all the boats coming and going and wonder about all the different places in the world they had gone. His first published work was in a letter to the editor in Fantastic Four #20. lmao GRUM is burning the poo poo out of these guys and they don't even realize it, all hail GRUM
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May 7, 2016 21:58
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The dungeons and dragons influence is both a blessing and a curse, because while its super cheesy cornball it's also very accessible and clear- and the strentgh/ dexterity/ int/ cha/ cumm character stats as a bunch of numbers lead right into every single video game ever, it's like it was designed with programming in mind Elves aren't short though they're tall dammit
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May 7, 2016 21:59
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Tasoth posted:I think it has less to do with Tolkien and more to do with the fact that D&D dominated the concept of fantasy fiction for a hot minute. The Earthsea novels, Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, John Carter of Mars, and some of the works of Lord Dunsaney were all contemporary or before LotR. But they didn't make it into the overall concept of fantasy because most weren't heavily pulled into the Dragonlance/Forgotten Realms settings in the 80s. I thought about this before, and I think it's just that Lord of the Rings has more focus on groups. There's a group of varied characters going together on a quest. The other ones all tend to be about one single super-badass doing all the work himself. That made it a better concept to copy for a game.
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May 7, 2016 22:01
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Earthsea was written in like 60s. If you really wanna look for pre-lotr fantasy that wasn't science fiction like Frankenstein, there was some British guy writing about elves in like mid 1800s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantastes Colonel Cancer fucked around with this message at 22:06 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 22:04
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Windows 98 posted:Believe it or not GRRM only started writing because he loved comic books so much. He would sit and read comics and watch a harbor with all the boats coming and going and wonder about all the different places in the world they had gone. His first published work was in a letter to the editor in Fantastic Four #20.  GRRM started his career by trolling his idols, ends it trolling his fans (by dying before finishing his books  )
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May 7, 2016 22:16
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Helical Nightmares posted:
I think GRRM hates his fans. Most of his work isn't even fantasy. He wrote a whole lot of nonsense about superheroes and a series about a giant nerd who flies through space with his talking cat. None of it made it big. Then he wrote some fantasy stuff and now people demand more and more.
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May 7, 2016 22:26
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My favorite series is any one with huge oiled tits
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May 7, 2016 22:27
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If you've ever read a book with a dragon or a spaceship on the cover you may as well just kill yourself.
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May 7, 2016 22:29
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naem posted:The dungeons and dragons influence is both a blessing and a curse, because while its super cheesy cornball it's also very accessible and clear- and the strentgh/ dexterity/ int/ cha/ cumm character stats as a bunch of numbers lead right into every single video game ever, it's like it was designed with programming in mind I dunno, Conan's really accessible too, at least if you're a straight white dude Robert E Howard was basically the Ur-Goon, spending his entire adult life living in his parents' house and banging out male adolescent power fantasy after male adolescent power fantasy E: Then he killed himself at the age of 30 so he wouldn't have to deal with his mother's impending death Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 22:33
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Guy Mann posted:If you've ever read a book with a dragon or a spaceship on the cover you may as well just kill yourself. what if its a non-fiction book about the Space Transportation System (that's "space shuttle" for you plebians)
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May 7, 2016 22:39
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Tasoth posted:I think it has less to do with Tolkien and more to do with the fact that D&D dominated the concept of fantasy fiction for a hot minute. The Earthsea novels, Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, John Carter of Mars, and some of the works of Lord Dunsaney were all contemporary or before LotR. But they didn't make it into the overall concept of fantasy because most weren't heavily pulled into the Dragonlance/Forgotten Realms settings in the 80s. I'd argue the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser stories had some influence - especially with the idea of plethora of gods and demi-gods that encouraged a salad bar approach, and the ascension of the "thief" as an adventuring archetype.
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May 7, 2016 23:05
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:I think GRRM hates his fans. Most of his work isn't even fantasy. He wrote a whole lot of nonsense about superheroes and a series about a giant nerd who flies through space with his talking cat. None of it made it big. Then he wrote some fantasy stuff and now people demand more and more. I think people would like GRRM more if they just read his autobiography.
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May 7, 2016 23:27
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Let me tell you about a little series called Malazan Book of the Fallen. And by little I mean about 9000 pages in the main ten books alone.
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May 7, 2016 23:29
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The_Angry_Turtle posted:Let me tell you about a little series called Malazan Book of the Fallen. And by little I mean about 9000 pages in the main ten books alone. This is the one good fantasy series and I will fight to defend it. Still too long but that was publisher mandated for some reason so eh
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May 7, 2016 23:34
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Those interested in Pre-Tolkien fantasy should check out William Morris, George MacDonald, H.P. Lovecraft, William Hope Hodgson*, Lord Dunsany, and E.R. Eddison, to name a few. You might even go further back and check out The Castle of Otranto by Horace Walpole, generally regarded as the first Gothic novel. If most fantasy weren't a cheap ripoff of Tolkien's books they'd be cheap rip offs of something by else. The genre is primarily based on a fusion of realism and medieval romance, so there is ample material besides Tolkien that could be bastardized and sold. *The Night Land has psychic powers, a dying sun, irradiated wastelands, titanic monsters, and the remains of humanity dwelling in an immense metal pyramid and was published in 1898.
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May 7, 2016 23:44
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What quirk of history drove fantasy writers and only fantasy writers to produce endless zillion page, 52 book sagas and cycles that murder their readers with concentrated boredom. Why can't fantasy writers tolerate the concept of a 'stand alone' novel?
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May 7, 2016 23:55
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Pistol_Pete posted:What quirk of history drove fantasy writers and only fantasy writers to produce endless zillion page, 52 book sagas and cycles that murder their readers with concentrated boredom. Why can't fantasy writers tolerate the concept of a 'stand alone' novel? "Look son, how many times do you want me to reinvent an Elvish language? I put a lot of work into building my imaginary world - I don't aim to do it again."
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May 8, 2016 00:03
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You know when I first read that GRRM letter I just assumed it was a fan-boy letter by a 14 year old. Now I am clearly seeing that he was trolling the gently caress out of Marvel. He was poo poo posting at them via snail mail. Glorious.
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May 8, 2016 00:04
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Ellen DeGenerates posted:William Morris "Having made my money in industrializing art, I'd like to now tell you about my Socialist beliefs"
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May 8, 2016 00:43
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There is loads of good fantasy and sci fi out there in any flavor you can imagine. It's only limited by Tolkien tropes if your entire reading list consists of RA Salvatore and Dragonlance. Heres a good one :The Grace of Kings by Ken Liu. Its a GoT style book with multiple POVs set in a Chinese influenced world.
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May 8, 2016 00:44
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Celluloid Sam posted:I like turtles hey there qt
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May 8, 2016 00:46
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