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The Lord Bude posted:oh. Oh dear. So what do mac ports of games use? metal? My dream of owning a mac and continuing to play video games is in tatters, although I suppose I could boot into windows. To be honest I can't think of many recent Mac ports. As mentioned above Macs aren't great for gaming unless you build a hackintosh yourself, at which point you may as well dual boot into Windows for the newest games. My 15" rMBP throttles its CPU from 2.3 to 1.3-1.4 Ghz when the dGPU is running at full load for longer than 5 minutes.  That's what happens when you put a 45W TDP CPU and a 50W TDP GPU into a relatively slim case and run the machine off a 85W power supply. They're a bit like like Tesla cars, super impressive for short bursts of speed and the average user doesn't ever use more than that, but it all falls apart as soon as you demand maximum power for longer than a few seconds.  The next rMBP will probably be even thinner and thus even worse for sustained load.
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Aug 20, 2016 15:08
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repiv posted:Apple aren't supporting Vulkan on OS X or iOS, they want to push their proprietary Metal API instead because gently caress you To be fair though, there is a METAL to Vulkan called MoltenVK that's specifically designed so you can run Vulkan on top of METAL. It's not a lost cause, just expect a performance hit due to Apple's stupidity. The Lord Bude posted:What are the chances of Vulcan supplanting DirectX 12, and therefore putting Mac and Linux on a more even footing with windows? High honestly, coding for DX12 and translating to Vulkan is apparently fairly easy, so there is no reason not to include Vulkan support in any DX12 game (unless it's Microsoft because they don't want to encourage a competitor). Vulkan's likely to supplant DX12 IMHO as it has much wider platform support, although Windows will hold on forever due to DX11 (unless OpenGL pull a rabbit out of their hat).
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Aug 20, 2016 15:08
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The Lord Bude posted:oh. Oh dear. So what do mac ports of games use? metal? My dream of owning a mac and continuing to play video games is in tatters, although I suppose I could boot into windows. OS X doesn't have enough gaming market share for developers to justify porting to a special snowflake API, so Metal really only gets used when already Metal-based iOS games are ported to OS X. 99% of the time you'd be stuck with Apple's extremely slow OpenGL drivers (or booting into Windows).
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Aug 20, 2016 15:11
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eames posted:To be honest I can't think of many recent Mac ports. As mentioned above Macs aren't great for gaming unless you build a hackintosh yourself, at which point you may as well dual boot into Windows for the newest games. To be fair I was talking about a 27" imac not a macbook, but I take your point. I was under the impression most AAA games get Mac ports these days. It would still be nice to use OSX most of the time and dual boot into windows for gaming. It's mostly just wishful thinking , given that Nvidia is now putting out slightly underclocked versions of desktop cards for laptops. Or I suppose an external GPU like that thing razer has happening - is that only being supported on that one laptop of theirs? My current PC isn't going anywhere for the next couple of years in any case.
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Aug 20, 2016 15:13
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Looking to get a new GPU for VR. Any recommendations on 1080s and 1070s? I know next to nothing about this stuff anymore, except I think EVGA is still meant to be decent? I'm leaning towards 1080 given with VR it may give an appreciable QoL difference in pretty much everything because of supersampling.
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Aug 20, 2016 15:15
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FaustianQ posted:To be fair though, there is a METAL to Vulkan called MoltenVK that's specifically designed so you can run Vulkan on top of METAL. True, it'll be interesting to see how MoltenVK performs in a real engine. Hilariously that company also sells an implementation of OpenGL ES on top of Metal, because Apple's own GLES implementation is so godawful slow  e: Just checked out the MoltenVK docs and it's currently missing a bunch of features. No compute/tessellation/geometry shaders 
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Aug 20, 2016 15:36
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The Lord Bude posted:To be fair I was talking about a 27" imac not a macbook, but I take your point. I was under the impression most AAA games get Mac ports these days. It would still be nice to use OSX most of the time and dual boot into windows for gaming. It's mostly just wishful thinking , given that Nvidia is now putting out slightly underclocked versions of desktop cards for laptops. Or I suppose an external GPU like that thing razer has happening - is that only being supported on that one laptop of theirs? The iMacs are of course better for gaming but their GPUs are still abysmal compared to the native screen resolutions and what's available on the market. A new iMac with a mobile GTX1080 is technically possible and would play most games at half resolution with decent frame rates. All we can do is wait and hope.  External GPUs already work with Macbooks. Check the techinferno forums for more info. Compared to an internal card you can expect ~25% lower framerates using an external monitor and 40% lower frame rates using the internal laptop monitor because of TB protocol overhead. I posted about this here. The Razer core housing costs $500 and a GTX1070 costs $450, so you're probably better off building a separate gaming PC for the same price. You may even be able to buy stripped down GTX1060 laptops around that price in the future.
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Aug 20, 2016 15:51
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Apple hardware is insulting. I think its the only computer related anything that can reliably piss me off from just glancing between specs and price. My job is to prep computers for relatively short term corporate leases. Design studios are a frequent customer (I expect many employees are hired for single contracts) and they used to use OG Mac Pros nearly exclusively. The 5770s (not Firepros...) for those cost $800 each  Unsurprisingly they have moved away from Apple in general for a myriad of reasons, but reasonable GPU power at a sane price is a big one.
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Aug 20, 2016 17:17
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The Lord Bude posted:oh. Oh dear. So what do mac ports of games use? metal? My dream of owning a mac and continuing to play video games is in tatters, although I suppose I could boot into windows. Mac games will be using OpenGL. And you should pretty much never consider Macs for gaming at this point, Apple really, really doesn't give a poo poo about supporting gaming in any serious manner. Their OGL drivers tend to be many versions behind the ones you see on Windows/Linux and won't support Vulkan.
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Aug 20, 2016 17:18
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:Apple hardware is insulting. I think its the only computer related anything that can reliably piss me off from just glancing between specs and price. 
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Aug 20, 2016 17:20
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i still don't understand the idea that designers "need" macs
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Aug 20, 2016 17:21
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wicka posted:i still don't understand the idea that designers "need" macs They dont lol. Arguably all they need are good displays and adequate GPU/CPU to drive software, which is all I ever see anymore.
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Aug 20, 2016 17:27
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wicka posted:i still don't understand the idea that designers "need" macs The world has not moved on from 1985. Once you needed a mac for graphics stuff so clearly you still do, or maybe a Amiga.
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Aug 20, 2016 17:45
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Is there a go-to table of Pascal cards compared side-by-side that's maintained by some website or grognard? I remember that German benchmark of various 1080 a while back, but then people said that the ASUS STRIX were misrepresented or something. General performance, temperature, and dB are the primary metrics - for the 1080 - I'm looking for.
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Aug 20, 2016 18:09
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wicka posted:i still don't understand the idea that designers "need" macs Age old things like needing a Mac to do graphical work, lack of interest in creating viruses for Mac, and brand loyalty/aesthetics. Apple has pushed this hard. One of the tricks to getting end-users to adopt new systems is ensuring the transition is as seamless as possible. Spending $500 extra dollars per unit is fine if basically no one complains. But, as in all things: 
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Aug 20, 2016 19:25
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wicka posted:i still don't understand the idea that designers "need" macs Of course, most Mac web designers never test their poo poo outside of Safari on macOS, so.
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Aug 20, 2016 19:41
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quote:In total discrete graphics, AMD gained 4.8 share points to 34.2% of market by unit volume (based on Mercury Research). In desktop discrete, a subset of total discrete, AMD saw a 7.3 share point increase, rising to 29.9% market share. http://www.hardocp.com/news/2016/08/19/amd_gains_48_market_share_in_q1_2016#.V7f6srGxWHs AMD is slowly gaining market share back.
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Aug 20, 2016 21:15
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I got my 1070 today installed it ran a few games/benchmarks and... Holy loving poo poo this card is fast.
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Aug 20, 2016 22:16
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I got a 470 yesterday. I was telling my IRC friends about the silly color changing poo poo, so I opened the gigabyte software up to mess with it again and it hard locked my computer. Then it wouldn't boot. I spent hours fiddling with it to finally get it running again. Lol Gigabyte software or lol AMD. (it's probably actually my motherboard's fault)
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Aug 20, 2016 22:22
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I feel like I can't buy anything, because that $200 4GB 480 is never in stock and the $240 8GB Amazon sells out in five minutes. I feel like the prices I think I deserve ($200 for a 4GB and $250 for an 8GB) must not be allowing the OEMs to make any profit or something.
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Aug 20, 2016 22:28
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I've heard rumors circulate among the sea cucumbers that the 4GB 480 never really existed and is going to quietly disappear into the shadows after looking real good in price-performance comparisons and briefly showing up as 8GB 480s with half their VRAM disabled via BIOS. Has there been any proof to the contrary yet?
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Aug 20, 2016 22:35
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HMS Boromir posted:I've heard rumors circulate among the sea cucumbers that the 4GB 480 never really existed and is going to quietly disappear into the shadows after looking real good in price-performance comparisons and briefly showing up as 8GB 480s with half their VRAM disabled via BIOS. Has there been any proof to the contrary yet? I don't think any of the reference 4GB cards were ever actually 4GB cards, they were 8GB cards BIOS flashed to 4GB with lower memory clock, but you can unlock them. I think Sapphire planned on releasing a 4GB aftermarket card, but it was like 230 bucks and I don't think it's been released yet. So yeah, 4GB RX 480's are basically unicorns and the 4GB RX 470 has replaced it.
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Aug 20, 2016 22:47
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Okay on my EVGA 1070 the fans don't spin up until it hits 60C and the card hits 74C under full load even with the side panel off my case in a heavily air conditioned room (It's 66F in here). The backplate also gets really hot when the card is under a full load so is that normal? The card is factory overclocked so maybe that's why? And I just realized I now have the same amount of dedicated VRAM and system RAM that's loving crazy.
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Aug 20, 2016 22:59
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spasticColon posted:Okay on my EVGA 1070 the fans don't spin up until it hits 60C and the card hits 74C under full load even with the side panel off my case in a heavily air conditioned room (It's 66F in here). The backplate also gets really hot when the card is under a full load so is that normal? The card is factory overclocked so maybe that's why? That's all normal, the card won't throttle until around 83C, if it hits that at full load then you might want to adjust the fan curve but from what you said your temps sound fine.
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Aug 20, 2016 23:05
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Craptacular! posted:I feel like I can't buy anything, because that $200 4GB 480 is never in stock and the $240 8GB Amazon sells out in five minutes.
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Aug 20, 2016 23:14
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:There is, however, a GTX "1060" 3gb for $200 Correction - $185: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487263 Add this to get over $200: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7GW4658143 Then use Visa Checkout and the promo code VCOGOLD16 to get $15 off. Similarly, it's 15 off 200 generally, so use that code on anything (using it without Visa Checkout gets the discount rescinded, though). Always been a bit leery of the single-fan 'mini' cards outside of an mITX build, though. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 21, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 23:40
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The Lord Bude posted:QuadSli 9800GX2s, core 2 duo E8500, 8gb DDR3 Ram Isn't that 8-way SLI, was that a thing back then?
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Aug 21, 2016 00:07
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MaxxBot posted:Isn't that 8-way SLI, was that a thing back then? I think he meant dual 9800GX2s, he just spoke redundantly redundantly.
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Aug 21, 2016 00:07
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MaxxBot posted:Isn't that 8-way SLI, was that a thing back then? A single dual GPU card is still a SLI configuration so two of them is quad-SLI.
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Aug 21, 2016 00:14
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It's the same reason why motherboard makers will put "Supports QuadSLI!" on all their boards with two 8x slots, which can confuse a lot of people into thinking they can put 3-4 cards in.
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Aug 21, 2016 00:22
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HMS Boromir posted:I've heard rumors circulate among the sea cucumbers that the 4GB 480 never really existed and is going to quietly disappear into the shadows after looking real good in price-performance comparisons and briefly showing up as 8GB 480s with half their VRAM disabled via BIOS. Has there been any proof to the contrary yet? MSI's 4GB 480 has shown up for sale at a few places for $250, offering you lousy value in exchange for a better cooler. Anime Schoolgirl posted:There is, however, a GTX "1060" 3gb for $200
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Aug 21, 2016 00:31
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Correction - $185: Wow I can't believe that's in stock
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Aug 21, 2016 00:32
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:That's all normal, the card won't throttle until around 83C, if it hits that at full load then you might want to adjust the fan curve but from what you said your temps sound fine. Which utility works best to adjust the fan curve?
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Aug 21, 2016 01:25
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spasticColon posted:Which utility works best to adjust the fan curve? Afterburner is good. Lets you do everything. EVGA precision is likely the second most popular
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Aug 21, 2016 02:50
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Just had a quick look at the specs between the 1060 6GB and the 970, the games I've been running (between 2009-2013) with the 1060 do fairly well between 40-60 FPS at 4K. Some of the few games I couldn't really run were Tomb Raider (2013) and Metro 2033 (ORIGINAL, not Redux). After doing a 4K benchmark on TR with all settings at max, TressFX on, and no V-sync, my PC could only get about 13 FPS on average, changing the resolution to 2K slightly improved performance and I got about 31 FPS. The same thing happened on Metro 2033, which really surprised me because that game was 3 years older than TR and somehow my PC couldn't keep up. Anyways before I start losing the point of my post, is the 1060 replacing the 970 because it runs faster even though it has less CUDA cores? Also if NVIDIA's making a 1050, is that going to replace the 960 as well? Junior Jr. fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 21, 2016 |
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Aug 21, 2016 03:35
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Junior Jr. posted:Just had a quick look at the specs between the 1060 6GB and the 970, the games I've been running (between 2009-2013) with the 1060 do fairly well between 40-60 FPS at 4K. Some of the few games I couldn't really run were Tomb Raider (2013) and Metro 2033 (ORIGINAL, not Redux). Also, the 1060 is more powerful than the 970 but trades blows with the 980, while the "1060" with only 3gb is the same performance as 970.
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Aug 21, 2016 04:54
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Metro had some crazy Titan class settings like ultra tesselation if you're not careful and PhysX is stupid broken like usual, so don't enable that. Same for that AMD hair in TR2013.
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Aug 21, 2016 05:30
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Is there a consensus on which of the GTX 1060 6GB and RX 480 is the overall better option if you're stuck at 1080p60 and like most settings cranked up? It seems like the 1060 generally does better with most benchmarked games, but the 480 outperforms it by a decent amount in others like Hitman and Doom. There are some 1060 models priced around $330-350 CAD (EVGA's mini single fan model, Gigabyte's non-G1 version, PNY, Zotac Mini), but they're still waiting for stock or are backordered everywhere, and the RX 480 only has the stock cooler models so far which are also all around that $340 mark. I'm probably going to want to upgrade from my GTX 770 2GB soon but I can't justify replacing my display because it still works fine (for now), and I'd rather not spend $600+ CAD for a GTX 1070. I'm not expecting a ton of "future-proofing" from cards at this level, but if I can get something that'll at least be likely to last me until 2018 that'd be nice. Like I said, though, I'm not expecting miracles from these things.
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Aug 21, 2016 07:08
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Grog posted:Is there a consensus on which of the GTX 1060 6GB and RX 480 is the overall better option if you're stuck at 1080p60 and like most settings cranked up? It seems like the 1060 generally does better with most benchmarked games, but the 480 outperforms it by a decent amount in others like Hitman and Doom. There are some 1060 models priced around $330-350 CAD (EVGA's mini single fan model, Gigabyte's non-G1 version, PNY, Zotac Mini), but they're still waiting for stock or are backordered everywhere, and the RX 480 only has the stock cooler models so far which are also all around that $340 mark. I'd say your best bet is a 6GB 1060, just keep checking, they come into and go out of stock as shipments come in so you should be able to grab one in the next few weeks without too much trouble. The only 480s I would consider buying are the aftermarket ones and those are either way overpriced or just unavailable.
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Aug 21, 2016 07:21
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Got my EVGA 1060 SC friday to replace the current GTX 670. PCB sizes are similar but the cooler is more simple and smaller tue to 50 W less TDP.  Tight fit because of two PCI cards but the closer one is low-profile so it only blocks 25% of the fan. Fallout 4 runs 65-90 fps on ultra settings and now I'm just twiddling my thumbs waiting for Deus Ex MD. Surprisingly my CPU temps have gone down ~5 C most likely due to lower TDP GPU. I installed the 0dB fan BIOS to the card and set the temp target to 85 C.
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Aug 21, 2016 09:23
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