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workers of the world, unite to provide cheap labour to western corporations!
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Aug 26, 2016 20:02
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Already on it, chief.
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Aug 26, 2016 20:39
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I also like how the workers have no power to make their nominally socialist government stop polluting the gently caress out of the air, water and food they consume. That % growth rate is the most important thing I guess.
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Aug 26, 2016 21:02
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Would a country run by its workers even be able to resist capitalism when the rest of the world is still operating on that poo poo?
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Aug 26, 2016 21:31
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Looks at history Uhh, Cuba? If Obama succeeds in establishing normalized relations then I can't see them staying that way. Good luck getting to the worker ownership stage at this point since commies don't have nukes anymore and there's nothing stopping capitalist intervention. I think this makes me a dirty Trot doesn't it
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Aug 26, 2016 21:51
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The Saurus posted:I also like how the workers have no power to make their nominally socialist government stop polluting the gently caress out of the air, water and food they consume. you're an idiot
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Aug 26, 2016 21:59
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more re: chinaquote:“In 1995 China enacted a labor law which granted all workers the right to a wage, rest periods, no excessive overtime and the right to carry out group negotiations. Rapid economic growth in the years since has lifted millions out of poverty, but as the economy cools wages could stagnate and unemployment could rise, and many could start blaming the government. lol quote:An embattled American executive facing his sixth night held hostage inside his own Beijing factory says the Chinese government is leaving it to his angry workers to decide his fate. R. Guyovich fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 22:01
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The United States makes it as hard to organize without outright outlawing unions as possible, and now membership density is at its lowest ever. Black Cat strikes are also illegal, and not just for key industries but anywhere. If you and your fellow Wal Mart employees try striking on your own without going through the official channels which you don't have any way, you're pretty much SOL. Can't even form a picket line without being hauled away by the cops. Also, I wonder what the liberal squatters ITT feel about the United States supporting an active communist insurgency in Syria.
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Aug 27, 2016 01:03
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Democratic confederalism seems pretty dope, let's see how that goes. Thanks Obama.
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Aug 27, 2016 01:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Also, I wonder what the liberal squatters ITT feel about the United States supporting an active communist insurgency in Syria. The one a NATO ally has begun attacking? I don't think there's much hope for that long term.
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Aug 27, 2016 01:24
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Atrocious Joe posted:The one a NATO ally has begun attacking? I don't think there's much hope for that long term. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOWJR1yW05o
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Aug 27, 2016 01:25
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do u think china will switch to full socialism when they've had enough capitalism, fulfilling deng's vision??? 
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Aug 27, 2016 01:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Also, I wonder what the liberal squatters ITT feel about the United States supporting an active communist insurgency in Syria. We're giving military support to communist Vietnam, too (and more than 7 billion yearly in remittances).
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Aug 27, 2016 01:26
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Karl Barks posted:do u think china will switch to full socialism when they've had enough capitalism, fulfilling deng's vision??? The CCP arranged things so there aren't really such a thing as property "rights" in China. So if they wanted to they could go back to being a command economy tomorrow. I don't think that's gonna happen until the capitalist model of development begins failing in China. Russia is an excellent case study for why the bourgeois can't be allowed to take control during a crisis. JeffersonClay posted:We're giving military support to communist Vietnam, too (and more than 7 billion yearly in remittances). That's business, Rojava is pleasure.
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Aug 27, 2016 01:32
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Karl Barks posted:do u think china will switch to full socialism when they've had enough capitalism, fulfilling deng's vision??? xi seems to be moving in that direction, yeah. china's watered-down socialism was necessary to continue growth without the aid of the soviet union before and after its collapse and the pendulum has started to swing the other way in the current leadership Pener Kropoopkin posted:The CCP arranged things so there aren't really such a thing as property "rights" in China. So if they wanted to they could go back to being a command economy tomorrow. I don't think that's gonna happen until the capitalist model of development begins failing in China. Russia is an excellent case study for why the bourgeois can't be allowed to take control during a crisis. my dude you should look into the relations of production in china if you think there's a bourgeoisie
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Aug 27, 2016 02:18
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Homework Explainer posted:my dude you should look into the relations of production in china if you think there's a bourgeoisie There wasn't a bourgeoisie in Russia before 1991 either, and it only took them 5 years to run the country into the ground.
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Aug 27, 2016 02:33
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My main actual interaction with Chinese business is their increase relationship with private equity firms in the US. quote:Recent deals include China Three Gorges' acquisition of Blackstone-backed (BX.N) German offshore wind park Meerwind and Chinese investment firm Creat Group Corporation's purchase of British biotech firm Bio Products Laboratories (BPL) from Bain Capital for 820 million pounds ($1.21 billion). Even stuff like purchasing real estate often means acquiring hotels and janitorial staff, and Chinese ownership doesn't mean improved conditions. From the point of view of worker organizing in the US I'm not aware of anyone who knows how to fight Chinese owners. You can't exactly picket them. In Illinois last year a meat packing plant got bought by a Chinese firm that proceeded to invite in ICE in for an audit. Thirty-six workers were fired and eight arrested. http://www.chinamoneynetwork.com/2015/01/23/hosen-capital-acquires-chicago-beef-processor-ruprecht-company http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/18176/confronted_with_an_immigration_raid_during_negotiations_meatpacking_workers http://www.progressillinois.com/news/content/2015/11/19/union-calls-firing-ice-official-over-mundelein-meatpacking-plant-audit This all has spurred me to read up more on labor in China, but right now Chinese leadership doesn't seem to be a friend of workers elsewhere.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:13
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Atrocious Joe posted:From the point of view of worker organizing in the US I'm not aware of anyone who knows how to fight Chinese owners. You can't exactly picket them. apparently, the party has to get pissed off enough to launch its own investigation into their practices; hell, I'm not even sure if the folks involved in the Tianjin explosions have had anything happen to them yet
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Aug 27, 2016 03:32
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Atrocious Joe posted:My main actual interaction with Chinese business is their increase relationship with private equity firms in the US. American workers are labor aristocrats so why should I care about them
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Aug 27, 2016 03:55
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Also it seems like it would be way easier to picket Chinese-owned businesses in the US, at least from a PR perspective
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Aug 27, 2016 03:57
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Badger of Basra posted:American workers are labor aristocrats so why should I care about them The meat packing plant guys were undocumented so technically not american I guess I meant more directly target the owners. McDonald's get's a Fight for $15 protest every year at their headquarters right now. Can't really do that in Biejing. http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-brook/news/ct-dob-mcdonalds-protest-tl-0602-20160525-story.html
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Aug 27, 2016 04:51
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Atrocious Joe posted:The meat packing plant guys were undocumented so technically not american also the forever protest/strike by the Hilton on Michigan Avenue by SEIU 1
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Aug 27, 2016 05:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The United States makes it as hard to organize without outright outlawing unions as possible, and now membership density is at its lowest ever. Black Cat strikes are also illegal, and not just for key industries but anywhere. If you and your fellow Wal Mart employees try striking on your own without going through the official channels which you don't have any way, you're pretty much SOL. Can't even form a picket line without being hauled away by the cops. The Kurds own
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Aug 27, 2016 06:15
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The CCP arranged things so there aren't really such a thing as property "rights" in China. So if they wanted to they could go back to being a command economy tomorrow. I don't think that's gonna happen until the capitalist model of development begins failing in China. Russia is an excellent case study for why the bourgeois can't be allowed to take control during a crisis. OTOH a ton of wealthy chinese citizens have bought a shitload of private property overseas, so if the CCP tries to go full socialist there's no guarantee that there won't be a liberal democratic capitalist invasion by china's capitalist class.
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Aug 27, 2016 08:10
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Homework Explainer posted:xi seems to be moving in that direction, yeah. china's watered-down socialism was necessary to continue growth without the aid of the soviet union before and after its collapse and the pendulum has started to swing the other way in the current leadership xi is moving in that direction in teh sense that socialist regimes in history were dictatorships
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Aug 27, 2016 09:27
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Atrocious Joe posted:From my limited understanding unions exist but are state run and thus pretty much non confrontational company unions. unions in China are fake and are basically bureau of labor management and an excuse not to let workers have actual unions
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Aug 27, 2016 09:30
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Homework Explainer posted:
I literally have immediate family members who are Chinese bourgoise
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Aug 27, 2016 09:33
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oh yeah I forgot I'm talking to Hexplainer I'm pretty sure if he sees a Chinese sweatshop where 90% of the profits goes to 1-2 owners but the factory has a hammer and sickle drawn on it and the law book says something something this factory in some theoretical abstract way belongs to people's government he's gonna cheer on the 1-2 owners as glorious people's revolutionary economic Stakhanov or something
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Aug 27, 2016 09:41
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Typo posted:oh yeah I forgot I'm talking to Hexplainer I'm pretty sure if he sees a Chinese sweatshop where 90% of the profits goes to 1-2 owners but the factory has a hammer and sickle drawn on it and the law book says something something this factory in some theoretical abstract way belongs to people's government he's gonna cheer on the 1-2 owners as glorious people's revolutionary economic Stakhanov or something what about my post
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Aug 27, 2016 09:43
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The CCP arranged things so there aren't really such a thing as property "rights" in China. So if they wanted to they could go back to being a command economy tomorrow. I don't think that's gonna happen until the capitalist model of development begins failing in China. Typo fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 09:54
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Typo posted:Property rights exist in China it's just that it exists through Guangxi/personal networks rather than a law book So, they don't exist at all. The state owns all urban land in China and leases it out for development. They could claim that a property owner is violating that lease and expropriate the property for any reason. The Saurus posted:OTOH a ton of wealthy chinese citizens have bought a shitload of private property overseas, so if the CCP tries to go full socialist there's no guarantee that there won't be a liberal democratic capitalist invasion by china's capitalist class. Other than the Peoples' Army? If China went back to socialism, the internationally propertied bourgeois would just leave.
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Aug 27, 2016 12:43
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Homework Explainer posted:xi seems to be moving in that direction, yeah. china's watered-down socialism was necessary to continue growth without the aid of the soviet union before and after its collapse and the pendulum has started to swing the other way in the current leadership If Homex took all the effort and willpower he put into willful self deception in support of his political beliefs and instead invested it in Zen Buddhism or something he'd literally be levitating in a Japanese monastery shitposting with his mind
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Aug 27, 2016 13:21
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the existence of managers and executives don't make a capitalist system. capitalism and socialism are objective modes of production determined by more things than "whether or not there are some people with money."
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Aug 27, 2016 15:14
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and no, liking any government that claimed to be socialist without examining how it actually operated would be the commie equivalent of what anticoms do re: china and vietnam. but projection isn't exactly a new thing 'round these parts
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Aug 27, 2016 15:20
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Typo posted:oh yeah I forgot I'm talking to Hexplainer I'm pretty sure if he sees a Chinese sweatshop where 90% of the profits goes to 1-2 owners but the factory has a hammer and sickle drawn on it and the law book says something something this factory in some theoretical abstract way belongs to people's government he's gonna cheer on the 1-2 owners as glorious people's revolutionary economic Stakhanov or something Marxists, like many others with bad ideology find the complexity of real life frightening so they latch onto simplistic legal technicalities instead of wading through messy real life results to actually come to a conclusion. Pener Kropoopkin posted:So, they don't exist at all. The state owns all urban land in China and leases it out for development. They could claim that a property owner is violating that lease and expropriate the property for any reason. So can the U.S. via eminent domain. There is a housing bubble in China right now which tells us all we need to know about what the chinese think about land rights. Homework Explainer posted:and no, liking any government that claimed to be socialist without examining how it actually operated would be the commie equivalent of what anticoms do re: china and vietnam. but projection isn't exactly a new thing 'round these parts So can you explain how North Korea is socialist and good again by "examining how it actually operates"?
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Aug 27, 2016 15:26
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asdf32 posted:So can the U.S. via eminent domain. It's not at all the same thing. The US government has to pay market value to the property owners, when eminent domain is exercised. If the CCP says you violated your lease, or broke the law, they don't have to pay you squat. asdf32 posted:Marxists, like many others with bad ideology find the complexity of real life frightening so they latch onto simplistic legal technicalities instead of wading through messy real life results to actually come to a conclusion. Marxism, an ideology that's rooted in a material analysis of history, deals with messy real life results far more than liberals - who are still fetishizing the Founding Fathers.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:43
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so are chinese people who own property in london or vancouver or new york booj abroad but prole at home?
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Aug 27, 2016 16:24
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's not at all the same thing. The US government has to pay market value to the property owners, when eminent domain is exercised. If the CCP says you violated your lease, or broke the law, they don't have to pay you squat. Ok and yet again you think you can point to a line of text to trump actual material results (your posting) and you're a bad marxist too. Obsession with the founding fathers is psudo-religous and creepy just like marxism (though a small step above given the higher quality, success and influence of their works).
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Aug 27, 2016 16:25
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Homework Explainer posted:and no, liking any government that claimed to be socialist without examining how it actually operated would be the commie equivalent of what anticoms do re: china and vietnam. but projection isn't exactly a new thing 'round these parts So you're claiming to be deliberate self-parody now?
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Aug 27, 2016 16:42
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people jumping on homework explainer while ignoring the third-world maoist in the thread
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Aug 27, 2016 16:52
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