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Abalieno posted:Of course Bakker. But I'd suggest the Instrumentalities series by Glen Cook, and also Janny Wurts main series. Instrumentalities of the night is loving horrible, and I say that loving everything else he has written. Smug heroes, the main protagonist happily abandons his old family and children to go literally loving around in ancient Rome, the ancient threat that was built up got easily dismantled. While the premise was decent, the implementation is pretty bad. I read the first three and haven't even considered reading the fourth.
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Sep 9, 2016 10:07
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Thanks for the recs. Picked up The Darkness That Comes Before yesterday and I'm liking it so far.
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Sep 9, 2016 12:56
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The best and most accurate description of the The Black Company is the Vietnam war but in a fantasy setting while on peyote.
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Sep 9, 2016 13:02
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Tommofork posted:The best and most accurate description of the The Black Company is the Vietnam war but in a fantasy setting while on peyote. Appropriately, that's a quote from none other than Steven Erikson! I'd definitely second the Gene Wolfe recommendation. New Sun, Long Sun, and Short Sun are all excellent series.
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Sep 10, 2016 02:33
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Bonehunters: It looks like they all survived in one way or another, but the Imass attack on Cutter's crew shocked the poo poo out of me. Came outta nowhere.
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Sep 10, 2016 02:47
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I feel like the Black Company books are practically required reading for any 'serious' fan of the genre, much in the same way that Lord of the Rings is.
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Sep 10, 2016 04:25
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I didn't like The Black Company. My problem with that that in any other series the initial resistance movement to the lady would be praised for how quickly they acted on the ancient prophecy of doom. But since this is a series about a mercenary band working on the side of evil, the book has to be about moral relativity.
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Sep 10, 2016 06:50
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please only read the first 3-4 Black Company books the rest are incredibly dull
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Sep 10, 2016 13:38
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:please only read the first 3-4 Black Company books the rest are incredibly dull They get good at the end, and the latter books make the middle books make more sense. I enjoyed the middle books a lot more the second time through.
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Sep 10, 2016 14:46
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Ynglaur posted:They get good at the end, and the latter books make the middle books make more sense. I enjoyed the middle books a lot more the second time through.
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Sep 10, 2016 14:53
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 There are that many? I thought it was like three, tops.
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Sep 10, 2016 15:05
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Just listened to the part where Parian explores the warren inside Dragnipur. It's closer to what I jokingly suggested then I'm comfortable with, but it also reminds me of a scene from one of Terry Prachett's novels where he describes hell as not being that bad because the souls of the damned have no bodies and cannot feel pain any more. Shouldn't everybody chained to it simply be incredibly bored from not having anything to do. They've clearly got infinite stamina, otherwise they couldn't still be moving the wagon.
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Sep 11, 2016 02:47
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Chaur 
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Sep 11, 2016 05:08
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Monocled Falcon posted:Shouldn't everybody chained to it simply be incredibly bored from not having anything to do. They've clearly got infinite stamina, otherwise they couldn't still be moving the wagon. The chained souls, while technically immortal, definitely don't have infinite stamina as the ones who are too exhausted to move get loaded onto the wagon. Pretty much everyone still walking is either a more powerful being or was killed relatively recently. As for boredom, it's explained in later books but (vague background MoI/TtH spoilers about Dragnipur) the wagon is continually pursued by chaos so everyone moves to stay 'alive', as being consumed by chaos would end their existence entirely.
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Sep 12, 2016 07:15
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Yeah, one thing I really hope Walk in Shadow will explain is just what the hell was Draconus thinking when he made that thing. I mean, sure, he wanted to establish a Hold of Darkness but why this way?
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Sep 12, 2016 11:05
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Apparently, MoI spoilers, chaos wanted Kurald Galain destroyed so he thought he had to help Mother Dark by finding a way to keep it from chaos. Obviously you put her front door in a wagon and make some dragons, demons and gods drag it across a never ending hellscape inside a magic sword. Except after a couple hundred millennia chained to the hellwagon he figured out darkness would've keep ahead of chaos naturally and he had hosed up.
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Sep 12, 2016 11:49
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Guyver posted:Apparently, MoI spoilers, chaos wanted Kurald Galain destroyed so he thought he had to help Mother Dark by finding a way to keep it from chaos. Obviously you put her front door in a wagon and make some dragons, demons and gods drag it across a never ending hellscape inside a magic sword. Except after a couple hundred millennia chained to the hellwagon he figured out darkness would've keep ahead of chaos naturally and he had hosed up. Since souls can seal gates it's not that farfetched that you can do other things also with them also
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Sep 12, 2016 13:40
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I like how The Bonehunters breaks from convention with some left-field developments 3/4ths through. I wasn't expecting the Edur to return so soon. They've become quite despicable in the interim. That thing about them casting off foreigners' metaphorical chains and replacing them with real ones was gross. Same with Mellick Rel justifying a wee bit of genocide for the greater good. Seeing the Fourteenth's deference to Tavore slowly develop over the book's course was heartening. Likewise their anger at the sullying of Coltaine's name. It's also cool how they're all sort of crazy. Quick Ben and Kalam talking is like two bickering children. The dialogue between all of them was very funny. This is probably my favourite Malazan-soldier-specific novel. Ganoes' surprise appearance was cool and I'm glad he's grown some extra mettle since last time. Generally, I dig the philosophy. Those long-winded explorations of war and religion and stuff are good most of the time. Erikson's clearly very learned and has considered this stuff intellectually and emotionally - sometimes I get the sense that a character's anger or sadness on a particular topic is an extension of Erikson's. I'm very curious about Toll the Hounds because everyone seems to either love it or hate it based on philosophical overflow or something. I never cared much for Pearl and couldn't get into his story here. I'd actually forgotten why he'd gone off the rails until Grub mentioned it to Lostara. Why does he hate Kalam so much that he wants to give him a tortuous death? What did Kalam ever do except get stabbed by him and thrown into the sea? It's all pretty vague and uninteresting. Karsa vs. Icarium and/or Rhulad is like a Wrestlemania mainevent and I'm a twelve-year old boy. It was surprising to see how desperate and compromised Laseen is. Also confusing. She approves of the Wickan genocide because it'll give the mobs a convenient focus for their anger. This is why Korbolo Dom is beside her, because that anger is predicated on his lies about Coltaine which buoy up Korbolo as a hero. But at the same time, Laseen implicitly asks Kalam to murder Korbolo and Mallick Rel. This I don't get. Also, if she wants Rel dead, what is stopping her? If the answers to this are spoilers in later books don't answer. But that scene left me very confused. I assume she wants Tavore dead because she sees her now as a legitimate rival, and so that offer to Kalam was basically her saying "You're with Tavore or me, but not both." Random good things: the cavalcade of defecating, Crump, Greyfrog's lust, Scillara's defiance of L'oric's stupid moralizing, the big underground escape including ancient honey god-dreams, KARSA IS A WARREN, Kruppe cameo, Cutter being a goon
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Sep 13, 2016 06:58
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snoremac posted:I like how The Bonehunters I'm pretty sure it's already been mentioned, but the Claw have been heavily infiltrated by agents of Korbolo and Mallick. She cannot trust the Claw, and likely she's watched carefully enough that she can't move directly against them, so she asks Kalam for a favour because he's not associated with the Claw power structure or Korbolo/Mallick. I don't think Laseen really cared about killing Tavore. If she wanted Tavore dead, she would've acted directly. Tavore didn't hand over the Wickans on arrival, she was basically harbouring traitors in the eyes of the commonfolk, and so could be seen as defying the Empress/Empire. Also Mallick and Korbolo would want her dead because she's a potential rival/threat.
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Sep 13, 2016 07:50
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Ah you're right, their infiltration of the Claw was mentioned. I assume then that even if Kalam killed Dom and Rel, the Claw wouldn't suddenly be loyal to Laseen (who would call the ambush off) and would still try to kill Tavore.
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Sep 13, 2016 08:04
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snoremac posted:Ah you're right, their infiltration of the Claw was mentioned. I assume then that even if Kalam killed Dom and Rel, the Claw wouldn't suddenly be loyal to Laseen (who would call the ambush off) and would still try to kill Tavore. I dunno, if Dom and Rel are suddenly dead, Kalam is holding their bloody heads and has the backing of the Empress, they'd probably listen. He might have to kill a few of them that think they should be boss clawman though. Also they'd probably try to assassinate him first chance they thought they could get away with it.
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Sep 13, 2016 09:55
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Claw isn't what it used to be. ICE spoilers: Topper is hiding out in a warren, Pearl might be just a slightest bit off his rocker and the third in line Possum is an incompetent clown. Add the infiltration and the Claw is probably done being a relevant force by the time Bonehunters happens. Tavore's role is a bit more interesting, since she's (TCG)Talon and she's definitely got plans that have nothing to do with the Empire already. The impression I'm getting from her is "gently caress the empire, let it fend for itself, I got a more important job to do".
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Sep 13, 2016 10:38
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Laseen is in fact pretty incompetent imo. She's never as fleshed out a character as she could be but I don't get the impression she's actually very good at the whole ruling business, having stabbed her way to the throne and having the empire immediately go to poo poo under her watch
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Sep 13, 2016 11:00
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Reaper's Gale: Roughly how much time has passed since Midnight Tides ends? Based on descriptions of Letheras and Drene I thought it was several years, but then it's weird that Silchas and the gang are still being hunted or even still all together so...months?
snoremac fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 14:35
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I always figured one of the big reasons Laseen wanted -Bonehunters spoilers- the Wickens dead is she thought they were more loyal to Kellanved than to the empire. Since he's the one that dragged them out of their tribal bullshit. Since they were to valuable and powerful a force to take out and Coltaine isn't someone you can just replace she had to wait for the no win scenario that the Whirlwind presented. By the time Bonehunters is done they're broken as a military and their homeland is basically under attack. Laseen got what she wanted using them as a scapegoat would have just been the cherry on top. In fact you might say the whole rebellion was allowed to get as far as it did because Laseen had more people she wanted to get rid of, because she's a psycho with tunnel vision. Haven't read the ICE books yet so maybe she's just incompetent like Larry said. Guyver fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 17:19
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I always got the idea that Laseen indirectly supported what the Bonehunters were doing. I have no idea where I got that from though. I'm excited for the sequels to Dancer's Lament to see what young Laseen is like.
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Sep 13, 2016 17:47
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Guyver posted:I always figured one of the big reasons Laseen wanted -Bonehunters spoilers- the Wickens dead is she thought they were more loyal to Kellanved than to the empire. Since he's the one that dragged them out of their tribal bullshit. Since they were to valuable and powerful a force to take out and Coltaine isn't someone you can just replace she had to wait for the no win scenario that the Whirlwind presented. By the time Bonehunters is done they're broken as a military and their homeland is basically under attack. Laseen got what she wanted using them as a scapegoat would have just been the cherry on top. In fact you might say the whole rebellion was allowed to get as far as it did because Laseen had more people she wanted to get rid of, because she's a psycho with tunnel vision.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:30
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Well, the amulet was from Baruk and Ben not Dujek but Dujek not wanting Coltaine dead doesn't mean Laseen didn't. Even if she did want him alive that doesn't mean she wasn't hoping the Wickans wouldn't be killed off. She was hurting for competent officers and Coltaine without his people would be a lot easier to control. Than again I could just be giving Laseen too much credit and it really was just a way to get Rel off her back when he out maneuvered her.
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Sep 13, 2016 23:38
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I saw these books in a bookstore today. Never realized they were that big. I've been whipping through them on my Kindle.
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Sep 15, 2016 08:04
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snoremac posted:I saw these books in a bookstore today. Never realized they were that big. I've been whipping through them on my Kindle. Yeah, after Memories of Ice I think they are all 1000+ pages, and everything after Midnight Tides is 1200+.
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Sep 15, 2016 08:24
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snoremac posted:I saw these books in a bookstore today. Never realized they were that big. I've been whipping through them on my Kindle. Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 13:57
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46% into Reaper's Gale and my opinion is basically: scenes inside Letheras = good scenes outside Letheras = boring With exceptions on both sides. Beak's automatically one of my fave Malazans. "How old are you?" "I was thirty but that was six years ago so I don't know." snoremac fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 14:06
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Just started reading Forge of Darkness. Only a few chapters in and already everything I thought I knew about the Tiste races has been turned upside down.
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Sep 19, 2016 03:42
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snoremac posted:46% into Reaper's Gale and my opinion is basically: yeah that's Reaper's Gale alright. Still my least favourite of the series on a re-read, the Redmask stuff is so depressingly pointless.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:13
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I just finished Memories of Ice last night. I just wanted to double check, but am I the only one who doesn't know what the hell is going on until there's about 200 pages left in these books? I recall feeling the same way for Gardens and Deadhouse. Does House of Chains have the same pace to it? I like the stories but there are times I put the book down and they're pretty hard to pick back up until close to the end.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:30
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lifts cats over head posted:I just finished Memories of Ice last night. I just wanted to double check, but am I the only one who doesn't know what the hell is going on until there's about 200 pages left in these books? I recall feeling the same way for Gardens and Deadhouse. Does House of Chains have the same pace to it? I like the stories but there are times I put the book down and they're pretty hard to pick back up until close to the end. Totally normal. I spent a significant amount of time each book completely in the dark as to who the major players were or what was going on. The upside, though, is that a reread is so much fantastically better than the first read.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:56
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I love that Spinnock Durav's defining feature in FoD appears to be "Is super hot.
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Sep 20, 2016 06:14
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Ehhh Reaper's Gale is my new least favourite. Not to say I didn't like it. It's pretty good, despite being the worst. The fascism in Letheras was unpalatable (in a good way) and psychologically interesting. The portrayal of how oppressors think rings true (and Karos Invictad's self-aware psychopathy is scary - I wonder how people like that live with themselves, assuming they're not all clinical sociopaths). Tehol and Bugg's scheming is pure joy, while Janath is a nice addition. Politics in the Eternal Domicile are compelling, at least until that dumb ritual that sends Bruthen Trana away and kills the tension. Karsa is predictably awesome while I've lost interest in Icarium. It's a shame that Karsa vs. Rhulad feels so perfunctory in the end, just one event among the chaos in the city. Feather Witch's crazy ambitions were fun. It's unfortunate that all this cool stuff doesn't take up more of the book, because so much outside of Letheras is a drag. I groaned whenever I got to a scene with Seren Pedac's gang. Of all of them I only care for Udinaas, but he's gratingly jaded here. I'm still not sure what Ruin's intentions were with that whole business with Kettle. The Quick Ben stuff also dragged along, as did the stuff with Shurq and Twilight. And of course there's Redmask, who felt from the get-go like Malazan's personal Dorne storyline. At least it concluded in the space of a book, but it takes up a whole lot. Things outside Letheras do pick up once the Malazans arrive, simply because their banter is so fun. Beak is a fantastic character. Hilarious and tragic. I just realized there's a whole lot of rape in this book, isn't there? Sometimes it's ladled on a little too thick, like when Triban Gnol's underling attempts to rape a soldier who's just rescued him. That was just stupid. It was also stupid when in the middle of a war, Quick Ben and Hedge urge Trull to have sex with Seren Pedac before finding Rhulad. I realized instantly that this was a poorly plotted way to get Pedac pregnant before Trull gets killed somehow. There's a fair bit of swearing. There was barely any in the previous books so it landed with a punch here sometimes. Looking forward to Toll the Hounds (Darhujhistan!! Kruppe!!) because it seems very divisive among fans. snoremac fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 14:04
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Is Toll the Hounds divisive? At best I hear people say FoD makes it more interesting than blah. From my perspective FoD helped but it is still my lowest ranked book. One of the worst Malazan books doesn't mean it is bad though.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:22
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Hand Row posted:Is Toll the Hounds divisive? At best I hear people say FoD makes it more interesting than blah. From my perspective FoD helped but it is still my lowest ranked book.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:25
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